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captn-tin
05-07-2009, 7:24 AM
this article on the front page of the fairfield daily republic. Councilwoman Moy will be getting my letter of support, while the other council members will be notified of my, and others displeasure of the trampling of our rights. oh, and i'm sure that eventually there will be a cost (tax) to finance this abridgment of our rights. and as we all know this is just the first step. Fairfield residents speak up now or forever hold your peace, or empty clip, magazine or cylinder.



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Fairfield police want info on ammo buyers
By Ben Antonius | Daily Republic | May 06, 2009 17:38

FAIRFIELD - In the latest bid to combat crime, police may ask for the name and personal data of anyone who purchases firearm ammunition in Fairfield.

The approach has been tried in other cities, including Sacramento. The idea is that it would allow police to determine if people such as parolees and probationers are buying bullets illegally.

'We want to be able to know who is buying ammo,' said Lt. Darren Moody of the Fairfield Police Department.

An ordinance was drafted and put on the agenda for the Tuesday meeting of the Fairfield City Council. However, the council postponed it until the May 19 meeting and on Wednesday, city officials said it would be on hold until 'a future date.'

At least one councilmember has already opposed the idea. Councilwoman Catherine Moy voted against postponing the debate, saying she didn't even want the law proposed to the council.

On Wednesday, she said it would 'violate constitutional and privacy rights' by keeping records of who bought what ammunition. As it is, buyers have to show their ID to prove they are over 18, but no police records are kept linking their name to the type of ammunition purchased.

'I am sure that the founding fathers didn't think that the government would be so bold as to infringe someone's rights to purchase ammunition without giving their personal information,' she said. 'Taking away some privacy to purchase ammunition is a violation of the spirit of the law if not the letter.'

As the draft of the law is written, stores in Fairfield would keep their own records of ammo buyers. Someone from the police department would occasionally check the records against a list of parolees, probationers and other people prohibited from possessing ammunition.

If someone is found to have illegally purchased ammunition, the record could be used as evidence to obtain search warrants, Moody said.

Assemblyman Kevin De Leon, D-Los Angeles, has proposed similar rules that would apply statewide. Sacramento's law has been in place since 2007. In its first year, it identified 156 people who purchased ammo despite being prohibited from doing so, and led to 101 guns being seized.

However, Moy questioned whether a Fairfield law would be effective.

'If Fairfield puts in an ordinance like this, (ammunition buyers) are going to go to Vacaville unless they put in an ordinance,' she said.

Moody conceded it would be desirable for all the Solano County cities to have the rules in place.

'It isn't a cure-all, end-all, but we are trying to be as least intrusive to the businesses and consumer as possible while still getting this information,' he said.

MrSigmaDOT40
05-07-2009, 7:29 AM
This is so stupid. Criminals are just going to have their "girls" go in and buy ammo and/or go to other places DUHH!!:nuts::ack2::drool5:

Untamed1972
05-07-2009, 7:36 AM
Someone from the police department would occasionally check the records against a list of parolees, probationers and other people prohibited from possessing ammunition.

If someone is found to have illegally purchased ammunition, the record could be used as evidence to obtain search warrants, Moody said.


For some reason this aspect stinks of a some kind of 4th/5th ammendment violation to me. If you're legally forced to divulge info that can later be used against you that sounds like a 5th ammendment self-incrimination issue.

My other question is.....what idiot who knows or should know he's prohibited from buying ammo would go into a store in Sacto and hand over his personal info knowing the COPs are gonna look at it? Just shows what little disregard for the law and consequences criminals actually.

But I do agree it is also a privacy issue. As a law abiding citizen I should not have to surrender my privacy so that the COPs can find a few prohibited persons who bought ammo.

it identified 156 people who purchased ammo despite being prohibited from doing so, and led to 101 guns being seized.

Yeah.....and at what cost? All that effort, all that money, all those law-abiding people who had there privacy violated to catch 156 people. What a waste! And what prolly happened to those 156 people....hardly anything I'm sure. How is this any different then having to submit to a warrentless search of my house to "prove that I have nothing illegal in my home"?

highpowermatch
05-07-2009, 7:48 AM
This is so stupid. Criminals are just going to have their "girls" go in and buy ammo and/or go to other places DUHH!!:nuts::ack2::drool5:

Agreed, unfortunately this is why some legislators want it to be state wide. Cant remember who the joker was, but saw a news clip regarding Oakland and the guy said they will just go to other counties and so we need to make it state wide.

Hey Bozo! :stuart: if you haven't figured it out yet, criminals are very resourceful and motivated they will get theirs and then there will be a lucrative black market. As usual they will only stop law abiding citizens. Jeez I feel like a broken record.

bsim
05-07-2009, 9:39 AM
Why don't they just propose a law that would print 'FELON' on the BG's ID? Then the shops would know they're prohibited from buying?

Cobrafreak
05-07-2009, 9:43 AM
How about a law that tattoos "FELON" on felons' foreheads! This WOULD work:rolleyes:

freonr22
05-07-2009, 9:43 AM
where the contact info to sent letters of protest? i only found this in her bid for congress i dont know if its current or not Catherine@CatherineMoy.com

freonr22
05-07-2009, 9:45 AM
http://www.ci.fairfield.ca.us/citycouncilmembers.htm

Councilmember Catherine Moy

Number of years on the Council: October 2008 to present
Term expires: November 2009
E-mail address: cmoy@ci.fairfield.ca.us (cmoy@ci.fairfield.ca.us)
Biography (http://www.ci.fairfield.ca.us/citycouncilmembers_11192.htm)

KCM222
05-07-2009, 9:59 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a first step towards banning the private transfer of ammunition. Get people nice and comfortable with identifying themselves and having it recorded for an ammo purchase and then it seems "strange" that you wouldn't have to do that elsewhere.

If the "loophole" to preventing prohibited people from acquiring ammunition is that law abiding citizens can legally transfer ammunition to them then they will try to enact legislation to close that gap.

Kishfisser
05-07-2009, 10:36 AM
where the contact info to sent letters of protest? i only found this in her bid for congress i dont know if its current or not Catherine@CatherineMoy.com

From the article she seems the one voice of reason:


"At least one councilmember has already opposed the idea. Councilwoman Catherine Moy voted against postponing the debate,saying she didn't even want the law proposed to the council."

However I could be wrong.

Swiss
05-07-2009, 11:24 AM
This is so stupid. Criminals are just going to have their "girls" go in and buy ammo and/or go to other places DUHH!!:nuts::ack2::drool5:

I have personally witnessed what appeared to be a gang member's girlfriend come into Big 5 and ask for boxes of .223 hollow points. She had to refer to a piece of paper to get the order right.

socal2310
05-07-2009, 12:05 PM
How about a law that tattoos "FELON" on felons' foreheads! This WOULD work:rolleyes:

I actually like that idea so long as we limit its application to actual felons (rapists, murderers, child molesters, armed robbers etc). It would eliminate one problem with the death penalty: too many innocent people have been exonerated recently for me to be comfortable with the State enforcing that punishment; a tattoo is slightly less final.


Ryan

Swiss
05-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Dear Fairfield City Council members,

I urge you to promptly reject the proposed ordinance to require identification from purchasers of ammunition in the city of Fairfield. I also agree with Councilwoman Moy that such a proposal shouldn't even be considered.

Gun violence is a serious issue in our state and it requires thoughtful solutions borne from consensus of the people - gun owners and non-gun owners alike. It is completely unclear how this proposal will make a measureable difference in the level of gun violence. For example, I have witnessed a gang member's girlfriend buying hollow-point ammunition at a Big 5 store, referring to hand written notes to get the order right. This type of tactic will become the norm for felons and anyone else who wishes to avoid the attention of law enforcement. Meanwhile, law abiding gun owners are subjected to an invasion of their privacy and a process grounded in mistrust. This ordinance, which is similar to the proposed AB962 by Kevin DeLeon, is a piece of flawed feel-good legislation that will not have any effect on gun violence.

In a free society, the burden of proof falls upon those who wish to restrict freedom, not those who wish to practice it. For those in favor of this ordinance, show us the drastic reductions in gun violence for which we're asked to trade our rights. Show us how felons will be entirely unable to obtain ammunition due to this ordinance. Show us how the police department will devote manpower and funding to the regular monitoring of all ammunition sales. Show us how this is not just another step towards general firearm registration. And finally, show us how you still observe and protect the 2nd Amendment right of your fellow citizens as much as any other right enshrined in our Constitution.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxx (D)

Swiss
05-07-2009, 2:18 PM
Here are the email addresses of the Fairfield City Council:

harryp00@earthlink.net, jmraz00@earthlink.net, cmoy@ci.fairfield.ca.us, cct707@aol.com, rvaccaro@ci.fairfield.ca.us

762cavalier
05-07-2009, 4:38 PM
For some reason this aspect stinks of a some kind of 4th/5th ammendment violation to me. If you're legally forced to divulge info that can later be used against you that sounds like a 5th ammendment self-incrimination issue.

My other question is.....what idiot who knows or should know he's prohibited from buying ammo would go into a store in Sacto and hand over his personal info knowing the COPs are gonna look at it? Just shows what little disregard for the law and consequences criminals actually.

But I do agree it is also a privacy issue. As a law abiding citizen I should not have to surrender my privacy so that the COPs can find a few prohibited persons who bought ammo.



Yeah.....and at what cost? All that effort, all that money, all those law-abiding people who had there privacy violated to catch 156 people. What a waste! And what prolly happened to those 156 people....hardly anything I'm sure. How is this any different then having to submit to a warrentless search of my house to "prove that I have nothing illegal in my home"?

I am also sure that those numbers that they generated will drop to almost zero in the next year. this first year it slid in under the radar of most people. Now that word is out i suspect they will not be catching anybody with this ordinance, just harassing law abiding citizens.

javalos
05-07-2009, 4:54 PM
OMG, those anti-gunners have as much gray matter as an ant. As if people can't go into the next city and get ammo.

MikeinnLA
05-07-2009, 5:01 PM
Yet another reason to hoard ammo....like we needed one.:gun_bandana:

Mike

97F1504RAD
05-07-2009, 5:38 PM
Letter sent to all members Thanks for posting this.

Seems one of the City Council Members does not want anyone to contact him. Here is a auto reply i got.

I apologize for this automatic reply to your email.
To control spam, I now allow incoming messages only from senders I have approved beforehand.
If you would like to be added to my list of approved senders, please fill out the short request form (see link below). Once I approve you, I will receive your original message in my inbox. You do not need to resend your message. I apologize for this one-time inconvenience.
Click the link below to fill out the request: harryp00@earthlink.net

Swiss
05-07-2009, 9:56 PM
It's just an automatic spam filter. Follow the link and fill in the form and it'll go through.

gotgunz
05-08-2009, 2:28 AM
As a long time former resident of Fairfield let me fill some of you in on the politics there.

John Mraz the council member/vice-mayor is a retired FFPD officer that was at one time, when I was in my early teens, a narcotics officer. After his failed attempt to get me and several friends to purchase pot from him he got the *** chewing of a lifetime from my 5'1" mother; in fact she was so pissed I thought she was going to punt him in the nuts.

Chuck Timm is a retired Sgt from FFPD and is a great guy; was a great cop and is highly respected in town (and by me). I can't see him supporting this but after the murder of Councilman Garcia last year you never know. I would be able to stand behind this guy even when I didn't agree with him.

Council member Voy replaced the former council member/ local teacher that was convicted of a felony dv charge and then hung himself in the tree in his back yard the day after the conviction. Council member Vaccaro replaced Garcia who was murdered (I may have their roles reversed).

LT Darren Moody is a spinless puke that somehow must have sucked his way up to LT. This guy is a disgrace to any person wearing a badge and how he has made it this far without his subordinates shooting him (think Niedemeyer from Animal House) is beyond me. I had the unpleasant fortune of dealing with this useless tool during the divorce from my crankster ex-wife; to say I thoroughly dislike this ******* is an understatement of biblical proportion.

I have never encountered an officer with such a blatant disregard for common decency. The best thing this ******* could do for the citizens of Fairfield is to transfer to Suisun. Talk about a walking civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen :rolleyes:.
This guy could be on fire and I would think twice about pissing on him to squash the flames although I would eventually relent.

I hope I can make it to the next meeting so that I can voice my opinion on the proposed measure and to remind Moody what I think of him.

Unfortunately I don't think being a non-resident would hold much water with them.

(did I mention that I really dislike the Lt. mentioned in the article?)

97F1504RAD
05-08-2009, 6:29 AM
Well if he's that bad do not send him to Suisun we have enough troubles as it is.

gotgunz
05-08-2009, 10:25 AM
Oh, I forgot; you might still have Curtis Kaldwell.

Sorry, LOL.

scr83jp
05-10-2009, 9:46 AM
I bought some ammo in Turners Outdoorsman in San Bernardino and had to give my id so they could record it for San Bernardino PD I told the clerk I didn't reside in san berdo but that didn't exempt me,after that I stopped buying ammo from that store.

tay
05-11-2009, 10:34 AM
More knee-jerk reaction politics.

I think there are only two stores that sells ammo in Fairfield.

Big 5
Walmart

Oshiat
05-11-2009, 6:44 PM
Councilwoman Moy,

Thank you for your response. Please pass along to the other Council Members that you are absolutely correct, most people will simply drive to Vacaville to purchase ammunition. I would like to take it one step further, I personally will no longer spend any money in Fairfield should this pass. My home is in Fairfield, but I have no objection to spending my hard earned money elsewhere. I wish to pass this message along thru you as messages to the other Council Members might result in a late night knock on my door. Thank you again for your support of the law abiding residents of Fairfield.

Thanks,
XXXXXX

From: Moy, Catherine <CMOY@ci.fairfield.ca.us>
> Subject: Re: Thank You
> To: xxxxx
> Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 12:40 PM
> Dear xxxxx
> Thank you for the email. I agree with your assessment of
> this proposal. It will come up again, so stand by!
> Catherine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxx
> To: Moy, Catherine
> Sent: Fri May 08 18:01:39 2009
> Subject: Thank You
>
>
> Councilwoman Moy,
>
> I just read an article concerning the Fairfield Police
> Departments request for a local ordinance requiring the
> registration of all ammo purchasers. I greatly appreciate
> your response to this request. In these times of economic
> downturn, this would be an expensive program with little
> return. It would be much easier to provide a list of those
> on probation/parole to the vendors and simply have them ask
> for ID and verify this against the list. We are already
> required to present ID when purchasing handgun ammunition.
>
> Thank You,
>
> xxx