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Sinixstar
05-06-2009, 10:08 PM
Bear with me, as this is my first 1911. Have some probably newbie questions.
Anyways, I noticed something that seems a little odd with my 1911.
If i'm shooting JHPs, the first round, and the first round only fails to feed. Doesn't matter what mag i'm using, (factory taurus mags, Kimber 'kimpro tactical' mags, or cheap-*** mags I picked up on a whim). Doesn't matter if it's clean or dirty. In fact, dirty seems to be slightly less prone to this.

If I pull the slide back off the round just a little bit and let it go - it feeds, but just releasing the slide lock it doesn't chamber correctly. Only happens on the first round.

Could a little polishing of the ramp clear this up?. Anything I should be looking at in terms of signs of damage or improper cleaning/lube? More of an annoyance then anything. Once the first round goes in - the rest of the mag cycles without a hitch. It's just the first one, and not 100% all the time...

slick_711
05-06-2009, 10:12 PM
Polishing the feed ramp could correct this. Could also just need a bit more oil. It's a matter of force, the slide being released from slide lock is not equal to the slide coming forward during cycling. Does it FTF if you pull the slide to the rear (slingshot method) rather than depressing the slide lock? This is not something you normally need to do in a hurry, and many people actually prefer the 'slingshot' method anyway. Perhaps try it and see if it works for you. Also, the type of hollow points could resolve this. Golden Sabers for instance have a rounder profile and higher shoulder than SXTs and tend to feed better (although my 1911s love SXTs).

sirgiles
05-06-2009, 10:15 PM
is this a new 1911?

RangerRoy
05-07-2009, 5:04 AM
Earlier 1911's are designed for ball ammunition and feed ramps accomodate just that. Most of 1911's which cycles varying types of JHP ammo or anything other than ball have received modifications including feed ramp polishing or customized barrel. Some of our modern manufacturers like Kimber and Para Ordnance have incorporated such modified feeding ramps to accomodate a wide variety of ammo. My Kimber and P14 chambers Winchester SXT's without any mods. I have an older Colt 1911 that received polishing to cycle JHP's effectively.

Also, try different manufacturers of JHP ammunition for your self defense load so you have the confidence of having chosen one which you know will perform correctly once you need to call it to use.

Sinixstar
05-07-2009, 10:29 PM
It's a matter of force, the slide being released from slide lock is not equal to the slide coming forward during cycling. Does it FTF if you pull the slide to the rear (slingshot method) rather than depressing the slide lock?

I tried an experiment, and loaded a mag with the slide locked, and it fails. If i load a mag with the slide closed and pull it back manually - it seems to be fine. Even when it fails from releasing the lock - if I just pull the slide back a little bit and let it go it feeds. That's why I was thinking perhaps there's just a spot that needs to be polished a bit better. It appears to be getting hung up on the ramp it's self.
Once the first round is in - the rest feed just fine.


is this a new 1911?
I got it in mid-april, and have about 750 rounds through it. (I like shooting it a LOT).


Also, try different manufacturers of JHP ammunition for your self defense load so you have the confidence of having chosen one which you know will perform correctly once you need to call it to use.

Under normal circumstances, I would - this is all i can find though =/

slick_711
05-07-2009, 11:32 PM
May not be completely broken in, but it's not necessarily surprising that dropping the slide from slide lock doesn't chamber the round. Shoot it more. Run it wet.

As I mentioned (and you had good results testing) it may just work better for you to slingshot the slide when initially loading. Or you can polish the feedramp a bit. Just do it by hand and put in some work. I've seen a few dremeled feedramps that were more trouble than before they were worked on.

Sinixstar
05-07-2009, 11:38 PM
May not be completely broken in, but it's not necessarily surprising that dropping the slide from slide lock doesn't chamber the round. Shoot it more. Run it wet.

As I mentioned (and you had good results testing) it may just work better for you to slingshot the slide when initially loading. Or you can polish the feedramp a bit. Just do it by hand and put in some work. I've seen a few dremeled feedramps that were more trouble than before they were worked on.

yea - my dremel is for work around the house, not for guns. :D

PutTogether
05-08-2009, 3:26 PM
If the feed ramp were the issue, I would think it would happen on more than just the first round. I wonder if maybe you didnt just get stuck with weak recoil spring.

It certainly isn't a cure all, but moving to a slightly stronger recoil spring can help when a 1911 doesn't feel like chambering a round. I didn't catch what kind of gun yours was, so I don't know what spring it came from the factory with. Most use a 16lb spring. Go to brownells and order a wolf 16lb spring, and a wolf 18 lb spring. They cost like $5 each. Try the new 16lb and see if it doesn't fix your problem. If it doesn't, try the 18lb spring.

For simplicity and cost sake, I would try this before screwing with a feed ramp.

Fjold
05-08-2009, 5:17 PM
Dremel tools are a gunsmith's best friend.



Every time a gun owner buys a dremel tool, a gunsmith's kid gets that much closer to a college education.

loosewreck
05-08-2009, 5:35 PM
If the feed ramp were the issue, I would think it would happen on more than just the first round. I wonder if maybe you didnt just get stuck with weak recoil spring.

It certainly isn't a cure all, but moving to a slightly stronger recoil spring can help when a 1911 doesn't feel like chambering a round. I didn't catch what kind of gun yours was, so I don't know what spring it came from the factory with. Most use a 16lb spring. Go to brownells and order a wolf 16lb spring, and a wolf 18 lb spring. They cost like $5 each. Try the new 16lb and see if it doesn't fix your problem. If it doesn't, try the 18lb spring.

For simplicity and cost sake, I would try this before screwing with a feed ramp.


+1
That's what I was thinking as I was reading the thread.

The SoCal Gunner
05-08-2009, 5:40 PM
Are you using 8 round mags or 7 round mags? When you are chambering, is it with a full 8 round mag? If you try chambering with only 7 rounds in the mag do you get the same effect?

Sinixstar
05-08-2009, 8:13 PM
Are you using 8 round mags or 7 round mags? When you are chambering, is it with a full 8 round mag? If you try chambering with only 7 rounds in the mag do you get the same effect?


Already tried that.
Factory mags are 8, and the Kimber mag I picked up to try is 8.
Tried loading it down to 7, same results. Haven't tried going down to 6 though. I do know that when I first picked up the JHPs i've been having this problem with - I only loaded up 4 initially, as I just wanted to get an idea of recoil. Didn't have that problem then. Have shot it a lot since then though (did that test the first day I had the thing).

Next time I take it out, I'll try a few things and see how it goes, see if loading less in the mag or different techniques with the slide (slingshot versus lock release) can reliably make a difference.

JTROKS
05-08-2009, 8:51 PM
Can you take a picture of the feed ramp and post it here?

rolo
05-08-2009, 9:03 PM
It's not even broken in yet guys. Don't go suggesting mods until the OP has put 1k rounds through it. OP just needs to get used to the new pistol. New 1911's love the slingshot method of feeding the first round. I know there are all kinds of opinions about this and none are really wrong, but I would bet if OP slingshots every new mag the problem goes away.

That little bit of extra spring compression between letting it ride off the slide stop and pulling the slide off the stop and releasing it manually is often enough to overcome any stickiness. Do it often enough and it will polish itself out so you can just hit that slide stop and use it as a release.

Colt
05-09-2009, 8:15 AM
Don't touch the ramp...

Try seven round mags, not 8 rounders loaded with seven. Try new extra power mag springs. By the way, is extractor tension set properly? Try recoil spring (16 pound is standard on a 5" 1911). By the way, is this a 5" barrel?

PutTogether
05-09-2009, 2:00 PM
It's not even broken in yet guys. Don't go suggesting mods until the OP has put 1k rounds through it. OP just needs to get used to the new pistol. New 1911's love the slingshot method of feeding the first round. I know there are all kinds of opinions about this and none are really wrong, but I would bet if OP slingshots every new mag the problem goes away.

That little bit of extra spring compression between letting it ride off the slide stop and pulling the slide off the stop and releasing it manually is often enough to overcome any stickiness. Do it often enough and it will polish itself out so you can just hit that slide stop and use it as a release.

I agree. You don't need to do any major mods to the pistol, and slingshotting it should work, and may, after time, fix the problem so the slide stop release chambers a round too. You DO NOT want to make any permanent modifications to the gun yet.

My idea of trying a new recoil spring though, costs 5 bucks, is not permanent at all, and may just fix the problem right away ; )

coop44
05-09-2009, 4:53 PM
what most gunsmiths will not tell you is all they do in most cases is advance wear. Thereby taking away from you the valuable time spent on the range getting used to your new weapon. Your gun will gradually wear in as you get better with it. Your 1911 will be entirely different after 500 rounds, don't worry.

changing the spring may create more problems than it solves.

Sinixstar
05-09-2009, 9:29 PM
what most gunsmiths will not tell you is all they do in most cases is advance wear. Thereby taking away from you the valuable time spent on the range getting used to your new weapon. Your gun will gradually wear in as you get better with it. Your 1911 will be entirely different after 500 rounds, don't worry.

changing the spring may create more problems than it solves.

Oh it already is. It felt different even after 200 rounds, and felt a little more different after 500, and now at somewhere between 700-800, it's really starting to feel like it's working into a groove so to speak.
Perhaps that's also just me getting used to shooting it - but I think it shoots a lot better now then it did the first day I had it.

Sinixstar
05-09-2009, 9:32 PM
As for swapping out springs - i'm hesitant to really change anything on this one. My understanding is that part of the reason why the PT1911 is so cheap, is Taurus mfg'd every single part in house, and really designed everything to work very specifically with everything else. Probably just being overly cautious - but supposedly they put a lot of time and effort into getting all the pieces exactly the way they wanted it. That said - I just don't want to go mucking with things needlessly.

Just going to shoot it some more, see how it goes - see if I can track down some other JHPs to try runnin through it. I know different guns like different things - so, we'll see.

Thanks everyone for their input though.

Ishoot
05-09-2009, 9:42 PM
Read a good post on this when I was looking to understand and solve the same problem I have with my Kimber Ultra 2 with said JHP rounds. I ran 7 different brands of JHP rounds and I was getting a 3-point jam around 1 every 3-4 mags. I've settled on the Corbon 165 g Powerball as my hd ammo of choice since it reliably fed with no problems. Just have to keep trying out different JHPs to see what it likes to eat. :0...oh and here's that post.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=9178&page=1&pp=10

PutTogether
05-14-2009, 10:28 PM
One more thing I will add to this conversation regarding feeding and Hollow Points in a 1911.

In any 1911 I've ever owned, as well as any friend or relative has every owned, no matter how picky they were about ammo, they ALWAYS fed regular old Remington UMC 230grain JHPs perfectly.

Note I am not talking about the Golden Saber, just the Regular UMC hollowpoint. I've seen that feed perfectly for 300 rounds in a gun a friend of mine swore only ate ball ammo.

I'm not suggesting anyone carry it in their gun without testing it - but I am suggesting that if anyone has problems getting JHP's to feed in their gun, that they may just wanna check out Remington UMC. (It is one of the cheaper hollow points out there as a bonus)