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View Full Version : Anaheim PD is holding my guns [UPDATED 6/11/09]


andrewj
05-04-2009, 6:34 PM
[UPDATE in post #68]


Late last year, two of my firearms were confiscated from my home by the Anaheim PD. The reason being, firearms are not allowed to be in my father's possession (just for clarification, Iím 20 years old and I live with my parents). My dad was arrested that night. Now with that said, the firearms were not in my father's possession. They were my guns, in my room, all individually locked, and away from my dad. About a week later, the charges were dropped. A detective called me and said that the guns canít be returned to me because they are not registered to me (they were registered to my grandfather, who was/is deceased). He told me that if I wanted them back, I need to wait until I am 21 years old (Iím 21 in late June) to register them to me. I hated the idea of these guns sitting in an evidence room for that long. I then informed him of the Intrafamilial handgun transfer process. He agreed that was a better option for getting the handguns back, and in a timely fashion too. I went through with the Intrafamilial handgun transfer and just recently received a notice from the DOJ-BOF stating:

"This is to acknowledge that the Department of Justice has processed your request and has made an entry in the the Automated Firearms System for the following firearm.....Ē

Both handguns had been successfully registered to me.


The form went on to say:

"A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms. If this is pertaining to a firearm being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency within 30 days of the date on this letter.Ē

I called up the detective I had originally spoken to and told him that I can now fax him the forms to have the guns released. He told me to call Anaheim PD's Property Detail dept. to have that done. So I called them. A woman from that dept. told me to get the detective to sign a release form stating that the firearms can be released from their custody. I called the detective back and he filled out the release forms. I called up the Property Detail again asking them if they would like me to now fax the I.H.T. forms to them so they can verify that the I.H.T. process has been successfully completed. She then tells me that I need to submit the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) form, and fee, to the DOJ. She tells me that this form, when processed, will notify the agency holding the guns that the DOJ has done a check to verify my eligibility of owning firearms and that the DOJ permits the release of the firearms from the law enforcement agencyís custody (that will take another month or two to be processed, BTW). I find it odd though, that is exactly what the I.H.T confirmation form specifically verified.

What is going on here? Am I just chasing my tail? Will I even get my guns back? Or am I just too frustrated to see the light at the end of the tunnel? :mad:

As for the legality of the officers confiscating my property, AND arresting my dad over it... if you have any advice or legal info on that subject, PM me.

gunsmith
05-04-2009, 6:44 PM
If you have enough for a lawyer, I would get some referrals from here. Sounds like you're facing age discrimination.

sfwdiy
05-04-2009, 6:44 PM
You're on the right track. California makes it as difficult as humanly possible to get a gun back from the PD under any circumstances. Be prepared for a frickin' run-around.

--B

HowardW56
05-04-2009, 6:52 PM
Even though you completed the transfer. A LEGR form is required. And yes you are chasing your tail, but it isn't Anaheim PD's doing, that is a required form... Thank our friends in Sacramento....

BigDogatPlay
05-04-2009, 6:52 PM
+1... you will be made to jump through hoop after hoop after hoop. A demand letter from an attorney, showing that you've fulfilled all the legal requirements, should do the trick. If you have the scratch to engage one of The Right People, do it.

andrewj
05-04-2009, 6:55 PM
Even though you completed the transfer. A LEGR form is required. And yes you are chasing your tail, but it isn't Anaheim PD's doing, that is a required form... Thank our friends in Sacramento....

You're correct. I just looked up the LEGR form:

On January 1, 2005, the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) process became effective with the addition of Penal Code (PC) section 12021.3. This process requires any person who claims title to any firearm that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and who wishes to have the firearm returned to submit a LEGR Application form for a determination by the Department of Justice (DOJ) as to whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm.

:banghead:

Roadrunner
05-04-2009, 8:16 PM
Andrew, the letter you received from DOJ is the same letter I received after submitting the LEGR form to them. You are good to go, Anaheim P.D. can release those guns to you. I might also add that you need to present the original copy complete with gold seal to them as the official copy.

fairfaxjim
05-04-2009, 8:39 PM
Your letter is the same as an LEGR. You need to get the property clerk to call the person at DOJ who signed your letter, and the enroll them in an ESL class, because they obviously don't read english very well.

"A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms. If this is pertaining to a firearm being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency within 30 days of the date on this letter.Ē
That is what an LEGR is, an eligibility check.

andrewj
05-04-2009, 8:45 PM
Andrew, the letter you received from DOJ is the same letter I received after submitting the LEGR form to them. You are good to go, Anaheim P.D. can release those guns to you. I might also add that you need to present the original copy complete with gold seal to them as the official copy.

Were you required to pay a fee when you submitted the LEGR form?

When I spoke to the woman at the Property Detail dept, she kept asking if my form had the gold seal on it. It doesnt but should it really matter?

rabagley
05-04-2009, 8:45 PM
Not to threadjack, but can a COE issued by the CA DOJ simplify this process (perhaps act as a replacement for an LEGR)?

Just curious.

Roadrunner
05-04-2009, 8:57 PM
Were you required to pay a fee when you submitted the LEGR form?

When I spoke to the woman at the Property Detail dept, she kept asking if my form had the gold seal on it. It doesnt but should it really matter?

Police departments are really weird to deal with. It's almost like talking to someone on meth, they're paranoid about everything. The gold seal is their guarantee that the letter is legitimate, so if you don't have that seal, you may need to call DOJ and have them send you one that the police will accept.

As for the fee, my gun was stolen and recovered by the police, so I didn't have to submit a fee with the LEGR

paul0660
05-04-2009, 9:03 PM
Yes, it sounds like a double Dros when only one is necessary, even to get one's own guns back.

Btw Andrew, your OP was so well written I was briefly encouraged about the future of our youth. That is rare. Thanks!

andrewj
05-05-2009, 3:36 PM
Just spoke to the DOJ. As some of you have already said, I must submit the LEGR form AND a $20 fee. It will most likely be another 2 months until I get my guns back.

Roadrunner
05-05-2009, 3:43 PM
Just spoke to the DOJ. As some of you have already said, I must submit the LEGR form AND a $20 fee. It will most likely be another 2 months until I get my guns back.

Look on the bright side, you CAN submit the LEGR, and you CAN get your guns.

I would expect that it will take a month and a few days. If you wait too long (over 30 days), you will have to submit another LEGR and another 20 bucks.

Casual Observer
05-05-2009, 4:20 PM
Standard operating procedure to get your guns back and is a perfect example of the right hand not talking to the left hand.

My buddy went through the same process to get his guns back from another OC police department and it took him almost 6 months.

MrClamperSir
05-05-2009, 8:39 PM
Wow. This same thing happened to a friend here in Alameda county (LPD). The cops confiscated his guns for something he didn't do and when the judge threw out the case he couldn't get the guns back. After months of running around and a letter from the judge his attorney was able to get them released but not without being verbally demeaned by the desk Sargent. I don't get why these guys can't let go even when the charges are dropped or the case is thrown out.

1*mike
05-05-2009, 8:53 PM
Wow. This same thing happened to a friend here in Alameda county (LPD). The cops confiscated his guns for something he didn't do and when the judge threw out the case he couldn't get the guns back. After months of running around and a letter from the judge his attorney was able to get them released but not without being verbally demeaned by the desk Sargent. I don't get why these guys can't let go even when the charges are dropped or the case is thrown out.

"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

Knauga
05-06-2009, 6:23 AM
"Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

Until the court has lawfully convicted the person of a crime, they are not criminals regardless of what YOU or ANY cop might feel. It is the nature of our justice system not to mention that pesky piece of parchment we call the US Constitution that all police officers swear to uphold.

It is not up to a police officer to determine if you are worthy to own a firearm, the case was either brought before a judge/jury and the defendant was found not guilty, or charges weren't even filed by the DA. The case ends there, to withhold a person's private property out of spite is morally reprehensible not to mention illegal.

1*mike
05-06-2009, 6:39 AM
Until the court has lawfully convicted the person of a crime, they are not criminals regardless of what YOU or ANY cop might feel. It is the nature of our justice system not to mention that pesky piece of parchment we call the US Constitution that all police officers swear to uphold.

It is not up to a police officer to determine if you are worthy to own a firearm, the case was either brought before a judge/jury and the defendant was found not guilty, or charges weren't even filed by the DA. The case ends there, to withhold a person's private property out of spite is morally reprehensible not to mention illegal.

is being a drug addict a crime???? Find the section, however a drug addict can not own a firearm. So although one may not be convicted of a crime they may also not be allowed to own a firearm. What if the persons mentioned in the thread were criminal informants (snitches), who "worked off" their cases. SHould they be allowed to own firearms?

Seems like you lack of knowledge of the justice system, and honestly the "real world"

Sniper3142
05-06-2009, 7:10 AM
I think it is borderline illegal for cops to hold on to LEGALLY owned property!

:mad:

Then you have to fill out a bunch of forms and pays a FEE to recover your firearms! This is all part of Law Enforcement's ongoing attack on civilian firearms possession.

arfan66
05-06-2009, 7:10 AM
I feel your pain. Several of my firearms were stolen from my apartment while I was deployed in '01. A year later, the Sheriff's Dept. recovered my Sig/Hammerli .22 pistol. It took almost a year for them to transfer it to the Police Dept. (their jurisdiction). After a few hundred calls to the Property Managment Dept. to figure out how to get it back (the folks I spoke to would not/could not tell me what was neccessary for me to claim my pistol or if there was a suspense date for firearm destruction). I finally got fed up and called the Police Chief's office and explained my situation to the Chief's secretary. Believe it or not, she got the ball rolling. The next day the Property Managment Dept. manager called me to explain how to get my pistol back.

Fast forward to 4/09.....The very same Police Dept. sends me a postcard notifying me that one of my other pistols was recovered. Every step I needed to take along with the appropriate phone numbers is on that post card. They put a map of their Property Mgmt. location on the back. It even lets me know that if the gun isn't claimed up before 7/21/09, it'll be destroyed.

Since my property was stolen, DOJ waives the $20 fee. Now I'm just waiting for the DOJ Firearm Eligibility letter (with the official gold seal) so I can pick up my pistol.

Lessons learned:

1) The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It's your stuff and you just want it back.

2) Keep making those phone calls. Ask for a supervisor and tell them your problem. If they don't know the system's broke, they can't fix it.

3) Be persistent (see #1), patient (it's the government -hurry up & wait) and polite (No one likes to hear a rant over the phone, even if you're in the right).

Good Luck!

Jeff

arfan66
05-06-2009, 7:20 AM
I think it is borderline illegal for cops to hold on to LEGALLY owned property!

:mad:

Then you have to fill out a bunch of forms and pays a FEE to recover your firearms! This is all part of Law Enforcement's ongoing attack on civilian firearms possession.


I understand your frustration. However, the owner may have commited a violent crime/felony since the the firearm was confiscated.That's why they do a background check before the release the gun. I don't think $20 is unreasonable, what's the cheapest DROS fee you've ever paid? My beef is the amount of time it takes to get to your firearm back.

If you read my above post, it CAN get better. We have to keep those folks honest and with the right amount of pressure, it WILL get better ;)

Jeff

Curtis
05-06-2009, 8:14 AM
I have mixed feelings about the process. It is difficult to argue with the idea of a background check before returning guns. But the time it takes is unacceptable. It should be an instant check and/or allow you to pay a shop to run a DROS. The other issue is with LE. They didn't know the laws, lied to me, provided incorrect information, and then tried to convince me to give up my guns.

To the OP: I'm sorry for your situation. I found out that when a person files the LEGR paperwork, they become the "registered" owner of the handgun(s) listed on the paperwork. No other transfer required. One of the handguns on my paperwork was originally purchased by my mom as a give to my dad. That gun is now mine.

As for the turn around time on the LEGR, I was able to call up and talk with the people at the DOJ. I called prior to sending the paperwork, after it was sent to verify they got the it, and again...just to check. I told them I was the victim and I had an shooting event scheduled (I actually signed up for a class...so it was the truth). I received their letter exactly 14 days after mailing it.

If, in the future, someone in the same house gets arrested don't give up your guns. Let them know that you will have the guns out of the house before they can make bail...before they even reach the PD/jail. Even if you live with your parents, you are still an adult and a resident...just the same as if you rent a room from a stranger.

Good luck.

ETA: With my own situation and a relative's situation with a different department, the departments provided notice of xx days before the guns will be destroyed. One was given as 45 days and the other was 90 days. The DOJ is very specific about 120 days. They will actually contact/notify the department of this error....I tried to use it as reason they need to complete the LEGR sooner. Also, once you notify them that you are working with the DOJ the clock should stop. The DOJ advised us to keep in contact with the property clerk and/or the person responsible for scheduling destruction of the weapons.

CavTrooper
05-06-2009, 10:25 AM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

So what department do you work for officer?

I certainly hope that you are not the standard for your job field and hope you learn the meaning of "innocent until proven guilty" before you get yourself into some seriously hot water legally or otherwise.

762cavalier
05-06-2009, 12:43 PM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

Wow what rock did you crawl out from under. I guess in your world instead of "innocent until proven guilty" it's "your guilty because I say your guilty".:mad:

Good Lord please do the world a favor and crawl back under.:rolleyes:

Knauga
05-06-2009, 1:19 PM
is being a drug addict a crime???? Find the section, however a drug addict can not own a firearm. So although one may not be convicted of a crime they may also not be allowed to own a firearm. What if the persons mentioned in the thread were criminal informants (snitches), who "worked off" their cases. SHould they be allowed to own firearms?

Seems like you lack of knowledge of the justice system, and honestly the "real world"

Define "drug addict". Should a smoker be barred from owning firearms? How about the guy picking up his latte every day? What about the guy who smokes medical marijuana? What about the guy who smokes the occasional joint? To be a truly prohibited person there must be evidence of drug addiction, not just your bias against the person.

Seems to me you lack real world knowledge of our system of government where people have the presumption of innocence until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If you arrest and prefer BS charges against me because you were wrong or based on your faulty knowledge of the law, why does that mean the citizen needs to suffer? With the OP's situation (even if he HAD committed a crime), there was insufficient evidence to convict, otherwise he would have been. If you cannot prove the crime, you cannot punish.

If you are a police officer you certainly do scare me and should scare any law abiding citizen. I suppose in your world the police ought to be allowed to go around and bust some heads "because they needed it"? It is not the place of the police officer to punish, it is not the place of the officer to determine guilt. That is for the judge and jury system.

OJ should have been convicted, LAPD and LADA screwed the pooch there. Of course almost any other defendent would have a permanent abode in the San Quentin death house with the same evidence. But the fact is, he was acquitted and was entitled to all the rights and privelidges accorded a person aquitted of a crime. I can call OJ a murdering SOB, but the government cannot treat him as a murdering SOB. Frankly it is one of the things that sets this country apart from most of the world.

fairfaxjim
05-06-2009, 1:28 PM
I understand your frustration. However, the owner may have commited a violent crime/felony since the the firearm was confiscated.That's why they do a background check before the release the gun. I don't think $20 is unreasonable, what's the cheapest DROS fee you've ever paid? My beef is the amount of time it takes to get to your firearm back.

If you read my above post, it CAN get better. We have to keep those folks honest and with the right amount of pressure, it WILL get better ;)

Jeff

They could do like most of the world does, run and instant NICS check and cut your legally owned stuff loose right then and there. That is how most guns are transferred where people running the show don't have their heads up their behinds and don't pretend to know what everybody needs more than they do themselves.

All of the rules for handling firearms, even including the stupid california LEGR ones, are right in the PC. Everybody in the police station that is involved with evidence and property is being paid a decent wage to do their job, just like everyone else with a job. If they can't read and follow the rules, they should be given a different job, maybe janitor or something like that, because they are being paid to know and do THEIR JOB! Passing crap around from detective to detective or other officer's is either blatant job derilection or the result of illegal department policy and procedure. We shouldn't have to "keep them honest", they are the ones that have sworn to do that themselves! The truth is that most LE agencies have become tools of very left, anti civilian gun ownership, politicans. Even given the benefit of the leftist, anti-civilian gun ownership BS laws that they have in their favor, toleration of illegal acts under the color of authority is not acceptable.

ZRX61
05-06-2009, 1:31 PM
Invoice the PD for the value of the guns... ;)

JDay
05-06-2009, 1:49 PM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

:ban:

Sniper3142
05-06-2009, 2:02 PM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

Wow.

Based on your poor use of Grammer, I might think you lack a basic understanding of many things. Please note that the letter "I" should be Capitalized when used alone in a sentence.

;)

I really hope you aren't a cop. That job is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.

(Please excuse the sentence fragments above).

:)

andrewj
05-06-2009, 3:19 PM
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.

truthseeker
05-06-2009, 3:44 PM
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.

That is not the half of it!

One of my best friends had his guns taken from him and when he finally got them back they had tape stuck to all of them and the tape pulled the finish off of 2 high dollar shotguns not to mention all the scrapes and dings from being shoved into a plastic garbage can with other long arms.

1*mike
05-06-2009, 6:09 PM
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.

ive heard stories...check. Ill buy the post about tape and dings but guys checking out guns and shooting them, NO WAY. Unless they had a warrant and were test firing them for the crime lab.

HowardW56
05-06-2009, 6:38 PM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt321/HowardW56/lgcbjglp.jpg

lavgrunt
05-06-2009, 6:49 PM
.....IBTK.......Here it comes!!!

1*mike
05-06-2009, 6:51 PM
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I don’t care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

818gtiguy
05-06-2009, 6:53 PM
talk is cheap!:thumbsup:

Riodog
05-06-2009, 7:25 PM
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I donít care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

I don't have a problem with you having an opinion. I do find it appalling that you would come on this website and make a total idiot of yourself. When one reads your posts any regard for your opinions, ideas, etc. go down the drain along with any respect that you 'might' have garnered in the past. You are sorely lacking in vocabulary, grammar, and spelling.

When you finish grade school come on back and take another shot at it.
Rio

andrewj
05-06-2009, 7:28 PM
Seriously everyone, shut up. I do not want this thread locked. Finish this skirmish elsewhere.

CavTrooper
05-06-2009, 8:10 PM
But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

Wow.

Are you actually an LEO or just an imposter?

HowardW56
05-06-2009, 8:19 PM
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I don’t care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

I like Bare arms.... And by the way, it is Freedom of Speech, not Freedom on Speech...

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt321/HowardW56/barearms.jpg

:eek:

jnojr
05-06-2009, 9:28 PM
As for the legality of the officers confiscating my property, AND arresting my dad over it... if you have any advice or legal info on that subject, PM me.

Are you a multimillionaire?

No?

Then what they did wasn't "illegal", because nobody will ever face any consequences for it. Not without you being able to pour tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into attorneys to fight this out for a few years.

One law for thee, another law for me.

KylaGWolf
05-06-2009, 9:34 PM
Andrew one thing in your OP caught my attention you say that your father is not allowed to have any guns. While technically he does not have possession of them the law says he does as long as the weapons are in the same house where he can have access to them. One thing you might consider is a way to lock the guns that your father cannot get into to make something like this to not happen again.

That being said I hope you get your guns back soon with very little hassle.

bussda
05-06-2009, 9:47 PM
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.


And you do understand the LEGR must be no more then 30 days old when you pick up the firearms? And you will be 21 at that time? Not sure if you covered that point.

I am surprised the DOJ sent you a LEGR when you registered the firearms and you weren't 21 yet...

Unless you could have possesion of the firearms (rifle or shotgun), but everyone is thinking handguns. In which case somebody is confused.

Hmmmm....

andrewj
05-06-2009, 10:21 PM
And you do understand the LEGR must be no more then 30 days old when you pick up the firearms? And you will be 21 at that time? Not sure if you covered that point.

I am surprised the DOJ sent you a LEGR when you registered the firearms and you weren't 21 yet...

Unless you could have possesion of the firearms (rifle or shotgun), but everyone is thinking handguns. In which case somebody is confused.

Hmmmm....

I am kinda confused as to what you were getting at. I may have confused you when I said:

I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I meant I mailed the LEGR application to the DOJ today. I havent received the notice from the DOJ that it has been processed yet. I'll get the notification sometime down the line. Thats the waiting game I was referring to.

Yes, we are dealing with handguns here. It is perfectly legal for someone under the age of 21 to have a handgun registered to them. That is done through the Operation of Law/Intrafamilal handgun transaction which I also addressed in the OP.

bussda
05-06-2009, 10:51 PM
:threadjacked:

You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I donít care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

No, it is not, banning you for your opinion. Some of the statements you have been making are coming from a viewpoint that is really scary.

For example, your statement "...I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. ..." And your position as a police officer.

Put those together and instead of following the the law it sounds like you prefer to make up the law as you go along. Not saying you intended it, just sounds like that. Gives people the feeling you will make up a story to get your desired result. And these people have heard lots of stories of people getting things made up about them, and getting chewed up by the system. Go look at what happened to Blackwater OPS, innocent action gets major problems.

I am not saying that is your intent, just that is the impression you are leaving.

I suggest you go look at the thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181363 and look at it from the point you are the guy in the car.

People do stupid things. But does it make it right to judge some one for stupid actions? Or the way they act? Or what their hobbies are? And them chew them out because they did something stupid?

If you really want to be that way, go to the LEO forum here or take it to off topic, better to be discussed and flamed there.

Now, back to the discussion in progress...

SanMiguel3
05-06-2009, 11:00 PM
You're on the right track. California makes it as difficult as humanly possible to get a gun back from the PD under any circumstances. Be prepared for a frickin' run-around.

--B

Generalize much? :rolleyes:

I had two guns which were stolen from me returned to me with minimum hassle.

One was a SIG P225 which was recovered by Fountain Valley PD. They sent me a letter. All I had to do was to show up, show my ID and they handed the pistol AND 6 rounds of ammo all in a paper bag. I had to laugh.

The other was a S&W Model 66. Westminster PD recovered it and contacted Irvine PD (was living in Irvine at the time). Irvine PD sent an officer to my condo, and she told me I had to go to Westminster PD to get my gun back. Which I did with ID in hand. They gave it go me in a Ruger box. :confused:

So my question to you is, what personal experience do you have to verify your claim?

bussda
05-06-2009, 11:17 PM
I meant I mailed the LEGR application to the DOJ today. I havent received the notice from the DOJ that it has been processed yet. I'll get the notification sometime down the line. Thats the waiting game I was referring to.

Yes, we are dealing with handguns here. It is perfectly legal for someone under the age of 21 to have a handgun registered to them. That is done through the Operation of Law/Intrafamilal handgun transaction which I also addressed in the OP.

In your original post, you stated (emphasis added):
The form went on to say:

"A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms. If this is pertaining to a firearm being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency within 30 days of the date on this letter.Ē



And based on what the other posters have been saying. That letter you just received, it is your LEGR. The only road block I can see is somebody at the PD saying you can't have them until you are 21, because they are handguns. But the DOJ says you can.

See what I mean by confusing. But we are dealing with people here...

That letter is still less then 30 days old, right. So the PD may release them to you. Unless the DOJ forgot to put something on the letter, like a reference number. In which case they need to send you letter with the missing information. Otherwise the problem is PD and DOJ are not speaking the same language. One of them bureaucrats needs to straigten it out or you may need to send a email or PM to Gene (hoffmang) asking for advice.

Sometimes mentioning CalGuns helps move things along...

bussda
05-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Generalize much? :rolleyes:

I had two guns which were stolen from me returned to me with minimum hassle.

One was a SIG P225 which was recovered by Fountain Valley PD. They sent me a letter. All I had to do was to show up, show my ID and they handed the pistol AND 6 rounds of ammo all in a paper bag. I had to laugh.

The other was a S&W Model 66. Westminster PD recovered it and contacted Irvine PD (was living in Irvine at the time). Irvine PD sent an officer to my condo, and she told me I had to go to Westminster PD to get my gun back. Which I did with ID in hand. They gave it go me in a Ruger box. :confused:

So my question to you is, what personal experience do you have to verify your claim?

Pardon me for butting in, but that post was probably more rhetorical then personal experience.

Depending on when you got the firearms back, you may have needed to just show ID, or get a Law Enforcement Gun Release from the DOJ.

The return process changed a few years ago. Exactly when, hold on, is that Librarian coming in to let us know...

Oops, my mistake. :confused:

andrewj
05-06-2009, 11:35 PM
And based on what the other posters have been saying. That letter you just received, it is your LEGR. The only road block I can see is somebody at the PD saying you can't have them until you are 21, because they are handguns. But the DOJ says you can.

See what I mean by confusing. But we are dealing with people here...

That letter is still less then 30 days old, right. So the PD may release them to you. Unless the DOJ forgot to put something on the letter, like a reference number. In which case they need to send you letter with the missing information. Otherwise the problem is PD and DOJ are not speaking the same language. One of them bureaucrats needs to straigten it out or you may need to send a email or PM to Gene (hoffmang) asking for advice.

Sometimes mentioning CalGuns helps move things along...

The others are mistaken. Though the LEGR form may say exactly what the OpLaw confirmation letters says, the OpLaw letter I received is NOT sufficient to have my handguns released. This is why:
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/legrinfo.php

Apparently the DOJ never updated the OpLaw letter after the LEGR program went into act in '05.

1*mike
05-07-2009, 5:27 PM
I am kinda confused as to what you were getting at. I may have confused you when I said:



I meant I mailed the LEGR application to the DOJ today. I havent received the notice from the DOJ that it has been processed yet. I'll get the notification sometime down the line. Thats the waiting game I was referring to.

Yes, we are dealing with handguns here. It is perfectly legal for someone under the age of 21 to have a handgun registered to them. That is done through the Operation of Law/Intrafamilal handgun transaction which I also addressed in the OP.

honest answer w/out angering anyone...move out. Your father will have no access to the weapons DOJ and PD will most likely give them back...

LOW2000
05-07-2009, 6:29 PM
Which detective are you dealing with?

andrewj
05-07-2009, 8:02 PM
honest answer w/out angering anyone...move out. Your father will have no access to the weapons DOJ and PD will most likely give them back...

Thats along the lines of free staters telling Californians to move out of CA. Easier said then done.

Which detective are you dealing with?

PM me if you must know

bussda
05-07-2009, 8:22 PM
The others are mistaken. Though the LEGR form may say exactly what the OpLaw confirmation letters says, the OpLaw letter I received is NOT sufficient to have my handguns released. This is why:
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/legrinfo.php

Apparently the DOJ never updated the OpLaw letter after the LEGR program went into act in '05.

Thank you. This student is enlightened.

On another point, I wonder if, if ever, the fee would be waived for law enforcement impoundment (or taking possession) of the firearms would ever be considered. After all it is treating firearms different from other property. I think it is a stretch, but with Nordyke, I can't help but wonder.

Yes, the fee is to cover the cost of determining your eligibility to take possesion of the weapons. But if there was no good reason, they just did it to cover all the bases, their actions caused you to incur the penalty.

Maybe you already talked this out, but still I wonder.

As for worrying about what they may do with the weapons, well, don't fret over what you can't control. But unreasonable actions could be a cause for compensation.

Again. Thank you.

DDT
05-07-2009, 8:38 PM
Yes, the fee is to cover the cost of determining your eligibility to take possesion of the weapons. But if there was no good reason, they just did it to cover all the bases, their actions caused you to incur the penalty.


Don't they charge you the fee for each weapon? They shouldn't treat guns differently than any other property with the possible exception of of running an instant check but even that shouldn't be charged.

andrewj
05-07-2009, 8:48 PM
Thank you. This student is enlightened.

On another point, I wonder if, if ever, the fee would be waived for law enforcement impoundment (or taking possession) of the firearms would ever be considered. After all it is treating firearms different from other property. I think it is a stretch, but with Nordyke, I can't help but wonder.

Yes, the fee is to cover the cost of determining your eligibility to take possesion of the weapons. But if there was no good reason, they just did it to cover all the bases, their actions caused you to incur the penalty.

Maybe you already talked this out, but still I wonder.

As for worrying about what they may do with the weapons, well, don't fret over what you can't control. But unreasonable actions could be a cause for compensation.

Again. Thank you.

Don't they charge you the fee for each weapon? They shouldn't treat guns differently than any other property with the possible exception of of running an instant check but even that shouldn't be charged.



These are the guidelines for paying the LEGR fees:

The processing fee for a Law Enforcement Gun Release is $20 for the first firearm (long gun or handgun), and $3 for each additional handgun being reported (e.g., 1 handgun and 1 long gun = $20; 2 handguns and 1 long gun = $23).

I had to pay $23 to have a letter say that I am lawfully eligible to possess firearms and that the holding agency may release them. Of course, I already had a similar note state exactly that but that note didnt have a golden seal. :rolleyes:

Rudolf the Red
05-07-2009, 9:35 PM
You're on the right track. California makes it as difficult as humanly possible to get a gun back from the PD under any circumstances. Be prepared for a frickin' run-around.

--B

When one of my stolen guns was recovered it took 96 days and 3 trips to the cop shop to get it back without the folding stock. (Marlin Camp 9)

If I had not persisted, it would have been destroyed.

andrewj
05-09-2009, 12:07 PM
When one of my stolen guns was recovered it took 96 days and 3 trips to the cop shop to get it back without the folding stock. (Marlin Camp 9)

If I had not persisted, it would have been destroyed.

That seems to be the consensus here. If I am not proactive in trying to get the guns back, the Dept. will drag their feet to the point where they can destroy them. Im convinced thats theyre goal.

jnojr
05-09-2009, 2:18 PM
You're on the right track. California makes it as difficult as humanly possible to get a gun back from the PD under any circumstances. Be prepared for a frickin' run-around.

"California" doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the department in question.

I had two handguns stolen in a burglary about eight years ago. Monday morning, the perps were picked up. I went to the PD that evening and a detective handed me the one gun of mine they'd recovered. That was it... no forms, no runaround. And no silly lectures or production, either... he handed it to me in a box with a couple of other things. It was covered in fingerprint dust. I cleared it out of habit and tossed it in the trunk of my car. And that was that!

Whiskey84
05-09-2009, 3:30 PM
Can't we all just get along? :chillpill:

To the OP, I hope it all works out for you. Don't let them run you around any more than necessary...

HowardW56
05-09-2009, 4:39 PM
"California" doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the department in question.

I had two handguns stolen in a burglary about eight years ago. Monday morning, the perps were picked up. I went to the PD that evening and a detective handed me the one gun of mine they'd recovered. That was it... no forms, no runaround. And no silly lectures or production, either... he handed it to me in a box with a couple of other things. It was covered in fingerprint dust. I cleared it out of habit and tossed it in the trunk of my car. And that was that!

The detective that gave you the gun back broke the law... He screwed up, not you!

bussda
05-10-2009, 5:16 PM
The detective that gave you the gun back broke the law... He screwed up, not you!

No screw up or violation. The events described took place 8 years ago. The current law has been effect since Jan. 1, 2005...

HowardW56
05-10-2009, 5:19 PM
No screw up or violation. The events described took place 8 years ago. The current law has been effect since Jan. 1, 2005...

You're absolutely correct, that would have been fine prior to 2005....

Meplat
05-11-2009, 1:37 AM
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.

F U

GuyW
05-11-2009, 11:28 AM
"California" doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the department in question.

I had two handguns stolen in a burglary about eight years ago. Monday morning, the perps were picked up. I went to the PD that evening and a detective handed me the one gun of mine they'd recovered. That was it... no forms, no runaround. And no silly lectures or production, either... he handed it to me in a box with a couple of other things. It was covered in fingerprint dust. I cleared it out of habit and tossed it in the trunk of my car. And that was that!

Several years ago, our office in downtown San Diego was burglarized by a transient in the early hours of the day. When I arrived at 8 am, the SD police officer handed me my loaded S&W 649, and told me to get better defense ammo...

...returned my Dad's Glock, too.
.

adamsreeftank
05-11-2009, 3:16 PM
To the OP, good luck getting your legally owned property back from the State. When two of my AR lowers were seized (the famous Milpitas lower grab), I submitted an LEGR with the fee and never even got a response. It took the hard work of some of the Calguns regulars and a lot of time before they were "recovered".



To 1*mike, you are entitled to your opinion, but thankfully the Constitution should prevent you from imposing your opinion in a way that violates others of their rights or property without Due Process. Of course, this is the real world, and I think we all know that the agents of the State have a great deal of "latitude" in how/if they enforce the laws.
...Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. ...

MrClamperSir
05-11-2009, 3:44 PM
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I donít care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.


I believe since he DID get the guns back it was the police that were not following the law until they were forced to. So just because you "have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them." really doesn't lend much to the conversation.

andrewj
06-11-2009, 5:05 PM
I got the LEGR in the mail yesterday. As one of you gentlemen already suggested, the LEGR form is exactly, word for word, the same as the Op-Law form. The only difference was that stupid golden seal :rolleyes:.

So I went down to the Anaheim PD today to pick up my property and luckily I got everything back in great shape. I did expect the guns to be given back in the hard case they were in when they were taken from my home but a woman just laid them on the front counter in front of all of us in the main lobby. I coudnt help but smile when heard the gasps and murmurs of the people in the lobby. I heard one woman say "Oh dear!" and another say "They Kinda look like toys".

Well, I got my property back and no on is in jail. Lesson learned. End of story.

G17GUY
06-11-2009, 5:13 PM
Congrats

mossy
06-11-2009, 7:16 PM
great news

CSDGuy
06-11-2009, 7:52 PM
I got the LEGR in the mail yesterday. As one of you gentlemen already suggested, the LEGR form is exactly, word for word, the same as the Op-Law form. The only difference was that stupid golden seal :rolleyes:.

So I went down to the Anaheim PD today to pick up my property and luckily I got everything back in great shape. I did expect the guns to be given back in the hard case they were in when they were taken from my home but a woman just laid them on the front counter in front of all of us in the main lobby. I coudnt help but smile when heard the gasps and murmurs of the people in the lobby. I heard one woman say "Oh dear!" and another say "They Kinda look like toys".

Well, I got my property back and no on is in jail. Lesson learned. End of story.
As irritating as the whole process is/was, this is great news!

Theseus
06-11-2009, 8:50 PM
Great news indeed! Congratulations on your success.

SAN compnerd
06-11-2009, 9:09 PM
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I donít care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.

I did not know that the prez's wife had a constitutional right to bare arms...:43:

SAN compnerd
06-11-2009, 9:28 PM
Its great that you got your property back.

On the other hand this is a perfect example of why we need smaller government. If I worked at BK and could not follow simple orders, I would not be an employee very long.

If I work for a state/federal agency and don't know my job, its covered up and perpetuated, even rewarded. Its a sad state of affairs and its getting worse. I could spend my entire career dragging my feet and harassing citizens who I am supposed to serve and who make my living possible through their tax dollars. Go Big government!!!

I wonder what the statistics are on guns that were in police custody, then subsequently released and used in a crime? .0000000000000000000001% of violent crimes caused it happend once back in 1857 or some crap. Good justification for a new and cumbersome process that costs tax dollars and has .0000000000001% effect on reducing gun related crime.

shoupdawg
06-11-2009, 9:33 PM
If I worked at BK and could not follow simple orders, I would not be an employee very long.


Not to TJ, but they should fire the cooks at my local BK. My whopper isn't like the one I remembered in high school. Bland, lettuce and tomatoes were old and wilty...yech.

Gio
06-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Glad things worked out for you :D

-Gio

KylaGWolf
06-11-2009, 11:30 PM
Andrew I am glad you got your guns back. Although I would ask them why you did not get them in the same condition (with case) they were taken in. You know you could ask an attorney if you have the right to bill them for the cost of a new case since they did either lose or get rid of something that was yours.

Scratch705
06-11-2009, 11:44 PM
they probably cut those cases open to get the guns when they couldn't get past the lock.

no point in even getting them back although i would send them a bill for purchasing new (and more expensive) cases

bigcalidave
06-12-2009, 1:34 AM
Awesome, glad to hear you finally got everything back. Figured it would be at least a few more months of stupid hell.

HowardW56
06-12-2009, 7:23 AM
I got the LEGR in the mail yesterday. As one of you gentlemen already suggested, the LEGR form is exactly, word for word, the same as the Op-Law form. The only difference was that stupid golden seal :rolleyes:.

So I went down to the Anaheim PD today to pick up my property and luckily I got everything back in great shape. I did expect the guns to be given back in the hard case they were in when they were taken from my home but a woman just laid them on the front counter in front of all of us in the main lobby. I coudnt help but smile when heard the gasps and murmurs of the people in the lobby. I heard one woman say "Oh dear!" and another say "They Kinda look like toys".

Well, I got my property back and no on is in jail. Lesson learned. End of story.

As cumbersome as the system is, it appears that it does work...

Decoligny
06-12-2009, 7:35 AM
I got the LEGR in the mail yesterday. As one of you gentlemen already suggested, the LEGR form is exactly, word for word, the same as the Op-Law form. The only difference was that stupid golden seal :rolleyes:.

So I went down to the Anaheim PD today to pick up my property and luckily I got everything back in great shape. I did expect the guns to be given back in the hard case they were in when they were taken from my home but a woman just laid them on the front counter in front of all of us in the main lobby. I coudnt help but smile when heard the gasps and murmurs of the people in the lobby. I heard one woman say "Oh dear!" and another say "They Kinda look like toys".

Well, I got my property back and no on is in jail. Lesson learned. End of story.

Do you mean to say that the Police kept your gun case? I would push to have every single piece of my property returned to me. If they took the guns in a hard case, I would want them returned in the same hard case, or I would be fighting to have them buy me a new hard case of the same type.

Go in again and demand the return of your case, if they refuse, file a stolen property report and list the officer who took your gun as the thief.

andrewj
06-12-2009, 8:30 AM
Do you mean to say that the Police kept your gun case? I would push to have every single piece of my property returned to me. If they took the guns in a hard case, I would want them returned in the same hard case, or I would be fighting to have them buy me a new hard case of the same type.

Go in again and demand the return of your case, if they refuse, file a stolen property report and list the officer who took your gun as the thief.

Oh, sorry guys, I didnt make it clear. I DID receive the case back. Everything that was taken was returned. I only remarked on the case because I expected the guns to be given back to me in the case. It was just strange having to put the guns back in the case myself in a crowded Police Dept lobby withall eyes on me. Sorry for the confusion.

Letitrip
06-12-2009, 6:28 PM
Awesome! Congratulations.

1BigPea
06-12-2009, 7:24 PM
Glad to hear it finally worked out in your favor. Geez...what an ordeal to have to go through.

ChuckBooty
06-12-2009, 10:35 PM
I would have LIKED to have them hand me my guns w/o the case. Kind of an "in your face" type of thing. I'd just walk right out with my hand around the pistol grip (being mindful of my trigger discipline, of course) and there'd be NOTHING they could do about it. Oh dear! LOL!!

ChuckBooty
06-12-2009, 10:36 PM
BTW...remember to get a 'smith to check 'em out before you fire them. Remember how the police LOVE to render our firearms inoperable once they're in their possession. Anything to get another "gun off the street".

bussda
06-14-2009, 11:15 AM
Good news.

I would be unhappy about the missing case, but you are wise to let it go.

Jpach
06-14-2009, 11:28 AM
Wow, good thing you got your guns back! And in your name too ;)


Well, I got my property back and no on is in jail. Lesson learned. End of story.

And what was that lesson? Im serious by the way...

Go shoot your guns now!

Bad Voodoo
06-14-2009, 11:29 AM
I coudnt help but smile when heard the gasps and murmurs of the people in the lobby. I heard one woman say "Oh dear!"...

:laugh: That one will be replaying in my mind for awhile. Then,

Sheep. :rolleyes:

andrewj
06-14-2009, 1:58 PM
BTW...remember to get a 'smith to check 'em out before you fire them. Remember how the police LOVE to render our firearms inoperable once they're in their possession. Anything to get another "gun off the street".

I'll look into that. It is a concern of mine.


And what was that lesson? Im serious by the way...

Well this whole thing would not have happened if I did not have firearms in the house. That, apparently, was one of my dad's restrictions with his situation. I obviously didnt get the memo.

Electricboy
06-14-2009, 11:18 PM
good to here

ENTHUSIAST
06-14-2009, 11:26 PM
Congrats on the happy ending.

arfan66
06-15-2009, 7:41 AM
andrewj,

Glad you got your guns back. It's amazing how much value they give a silly gold sticker.

I picked up my pistol a couple of weeks ago. The woman behind the bullet proof glass was not very enthusiastic about handing over the ammo (7 rds. and probably not mine anyway) along with my stuff. I told her to keep them, all I care about is my pistol. Hell, I was surprised to see all of the stolen magazines for that pistol were returned too. It's a good thing I brought a lock & case with me, otherwise they weren't going to release it.

Congrats again, enjoy your 'newly returned' toys! ;)