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HowardW56
05-04-2009, 4:31 PM
************************************************** ***************************
Office of the City Clerk, City of Los Angeles
This report was generated by the Council File Management System on 05/04/2009
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Council File Number
08-1403
Title
AMMUNITION SALES / PURCHASES
Subject
Motion - That the City Attorney, in consultation with the Los Angeles Police Department, draft an
ordinance which requires face to face ammunition sales and purchases, thumbprints provided by
purchasers and background checks for employees handling ammunition.
Last Change Date Expiration Date
05/01/2009 04/28/2011
Reference Numbers
City Attorney R08-0320,City Attorney R08-0453,City Attorney R08-0485,City Administrative Officer
0320-00156-0000
Mover Second
JACK WEISS JOSE HUIZAR
Action History for Council File 08-1403
Date Activity
04/30/2009 File closed by City Clerk;.
04/29/2009 Final Council ; Action.
04/28/2009 Council ; adopted item, subject to reconsideration, pursuant to Council Rule 51.
04/22/2009 City Clerk; scheduled item for Council on April 28, 2009.
04/07/2009 Budget and Finance Committee; transmitted Council File to Public Safety Committee .
04/06/2009 Budget and Finance Committee; approved item(s).
04/03/2009 Budget and Finance Committee; scheduled item for committee meeting on April 6,
2009.
03/23/2009 Public Safety Committee; transmitted Council File to Budget and Finance Committee .
03/19/2009 Public Safety Committee; scheduled item for committee meeting on March 23, 2009.
02/09/2009 City Clerk; transmitted Council File to Public Safety Committee .
02/09/2009 City Administrative Officer; document(s) referred to Budget and Finance
Committee;Public Safety Committee.
02/09/2009 Document(s) submitted by City Administrative Officer;, as follows: City Administrative
Officer report 0320-00156-0000, dated February 6, 2009, relative to the ammunition
vendor police permit fee.
01/02/2009 File closed by City Clerk;.
12/22/2008 Mayor transmitted file to City Clerk. Ordinance effective date: February 2, 2009.
12/18/2008 City Clerk; transmitted file to Mayor. Last day for Mayor to act is December 29, 2008.
FORTHWITH
12/17/2008 Council adopted Public Safety Committee report as amended; ordinance adopted.
12/17/2008 Council adopted amending verbal motion (Weiss-Hahn).
12/16/2008 Council ; continued item to/for December 17, 2008 .
12/12/2008 City Clerk; scheduled item for Council on December 16, 2008.
Monday, May 04, 2009 Page 1 of 2
12/12/2008 Document(s) submitted by City Attorney;, as follows: City Attorney report R08-0485,
dated December 12, 2008, relative to the second revised draft ordinance adding
Section 103.314.1 to, and amending Section 55.11 of, The Los Angeles Municipal Code
to require ammunition sellers to obtain a permit and comply with other requirements.
12/10/2008 City Clerk; scheduled item for Council on December 16, 2008.
12/04/2008 Public Safety Committee; scheduled item for committee meeting on December 8,
2008.
12/02/2008 City Attorney; document(s) referred to Public Safety Committee.
12/01/2008 Document(s) submitted by City Attorney;, as follows: City Attorney report R08-0453,
dated December 1, 2008, relative to a revised draft ordinance adding Section
103.314.1 to, and amending Section 55.11 of, the Los Angeles Municipal Code to
require ammunition sellers to obtain a permit and comply with other requirements.
09/02/2008 City Attorney; document(s) referred to Public Safety Committee.
08/29/2008 Document(s) submitted by City Attorney;, as follows: City Attorney R08-0320 report,
dated August 29, 2008, relative to a draft ordinance adding Section 103.314.1 to the
Los Angeles Municipal Code to require ammunition sellers to obtain a permit and
comply with other requirements.
Archive History
5-30-08 - This day's Council session
5-30-08 - Ref to Public Safety Committee
5-30-08 - File to Public Safety Committee Clerk
6-12-08 - Communication from Public Safety Committee Clerk, dated June 12, 2008 - to City
Attorney
Monday, May 04, 2009 Page 2 of 2

HowardW56
05-04-2009, 4:34 PM
Here is a link to the actual ordinance...

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2008/08-1403_ord_180447.pdf

Gator Monroe
05-04-2009, 4:36 PM
City only or Los Angeles County ?

radioburning
05-04-2009, 4:42 PM
AAAAaaaaarrrrrggghghh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

bodger
05-04-2009, 4:46 PM
City only or Los Angeles County ?

City. I buy at a gun store in Culver City and they do not have to comply.

Interesting that they are exempting those with a CCW and allowing them to be included in with LEOs.

Gator Monroe
05-04-2009, 4:48 PM
AAAAaaaaarrrrrggghghh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

If those are real feelings you espoused then we can count on you to vote GOP in 10 & 12 ?:thumbsup:

chansen49
05-04-2009, 4:49 PM
Its been that way in LA city for a while now. Ive been fingerprinted SOOO many times just for buying a box of shells.

Chris

glockman19
05-04-2009, 4:50 PM
Let them make any ordinance they want. Breaking both the California & National Constitutions violating Inalieable Rights is unenforcible. Jack doesn't know JACK, and he wants to be city attorney.

Maltese Falcon
05-04-2009, 4:55 PM
...just to show my appreciation, I donated another $25 to Trutanich campaign.

RRangel
05-04-2009, 5:05 PM
This law has been mentioned here before. It is a typical PR move by the usual suspects directed at ignorant residents and similar people everywhere. The author and his friends don't have the guts to confront real problems. To them the path of least resistance is to blame civilized gun owners and tout anti-gun dogma. This law regulates sellers within the city. It's an expansion of an already existing code. In this regard it doesn't change much contrary to the hyperbole. Jack Weiss is running for city attorney and this gets him in the media headlines.

lioneaglegriffin
05-04-2009, 5:26 PM
how many big gun shops are in LA anyway (LAX range is in inglewood, Socal Sharpshooter is in Torrance, there is no Turners in LA),so this affects the smaller establishments i guess. i always go somewhere else in the county for my ammo or order at http://www.ammunitiontogo.com and pick it up at my box were my NRA mail goes..

DDT
05-04-2009, 7:19 PM
How hard would it be to get an injunction against this? It seems that going after this before it is implemented would be much easier than waiting. It would also help establish the level of scrutiny given infringing laws on a pretty clear-cut case.

Is this "low hanging" fruit and "cheap" enough, attorney time wise, to jump on?

1BigPea
05-04-2009, 7:40 PM
Yeah, I see this a lot when ordering online...


The following locations have ammunition restrictions.
If you are in Illinois a FOID card must on file before we will ship.
If you are in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, or Massachusetts we will only ship to an FFL dealer.

Hopefully 962 doesn't pass because I dont want to see "Sorry no online sales to California!"

Deamer
05-04-2009, 8:20 PM
Am I reading that right? A million dollar minimum insurance in case someone kills someone or damages property with the bullets you sell them?

q2on
05-04-2009, 8:28 PM
Is it now illegal for LA city residents to purchase ammunition online and have it shipped to their homes? Or to buy ammunition from a private party?

SimpleCountryActuary
05-04-2009, 8:33 PM
Is it now illegal for LA city residents to purchase ammunition online and have it shipped to their homes? Or to buy ammunition from a private party?

Certainly the former. Sportsman club won't even ship to LA County, they are so scared. Fortunately I work in Culver City and ... well ... the UPS guy knows, I think he shoots too.

I voted for The Big T on my absentee ballot today. ;)

CnCFunFactory
05-04-2009, 8:38 PM
there is no Turners in LA),so this affects the smaller establishments i guess.

doesn't the turners in reseda count?

old-trapper
05-04-2009, 8:40 PM
SEC. 55.11. REQUIREMENTS FOR AMMUNITION SALES.
(a) "Firearm Ammunition" means any self-contained unit consisting of the
case, primer, propellant charge, and projectile for use in pistols, revolvers, rifles, shot
guns, or any other device designed to be used as a weapon from which is expelled a
projectile by the force of explosion or other form of combustion. "Firearm Ammunition"
shall not include blank ammunition used solely in the course of motion picture,
television, video, or theatrical productions.

Makes me want to open a new store selling only "components" that dont meet their definition....LOL stupid law. As if gang bangers cant buy ammo a 10 min drive away...assanine

RRangel
05-04-2009, 8:52 PM
Is it now illegal for LA city residents to purchase ammunition online and have it shipped to their homes? Or to buy ammunition from a private party?

The law is a regulation that applies to businesses within the city. It appears to have nothing to do with internet or mail order. Remember there is no law against possession of ammunition as it's a legal product.

lioneaglegriffin
05-04-2009, 8:54 PM
doesn't the turners in reseda count?

i guess your right.

http://www.laalmanac.com/images/Map_LA_City_Planning_Areas.gif

CnCFunFactory
05-04-2009, 9:02 PM
i guess your right.

http://www.laalmanac.com/images/Map_LA_City_Planning_Areas.gif

I always see in their ad that the smaller guns are not available there. I just assumed it was because of the saturday night special blah blah blah for the city. Figured this would also affect them....

nick
05-04-2009, 9:03 PM
how many big gun shops are in LA anyway (LAX range is in inglewood, Socal Sharpshooter is in Torrance, there is no Turners in LA),so this affects the smaller establishments i guess. i always go somewhere else in the county for my ammo or order at http://www.ammunitiontogo.com and pick it up at my box were my NRA mail goes..

There's a Turner's in Reseda, which is L.A. There're some Big 5s in L.A., as well. L.A. Gun Club sells ammo. I'm not sure if there're any other gun stores/ranges in L.A. I'm sure there're more stores in SFV, too.

RRangel
05-04-2009, 9:05 PM
doesn't the turners in reseda count?

If you buy from that store nothing has really changed for you. They were already required to jump through the same record keeping hoops. It's just that the mayor never misses a change for a PR show.

tactic101
05-04-2009, 9:07 PM
There's a Turner's in Reseda, which is L.A. There're some Big 5s in L.A., as well. L.A. Gun Club sells ammo. I'm not sure if there're any other gun stores/ranges in L.A.


I'm missing something here. Its probably mixed in with all the words in the OP, and I'm trying to watch the game, so can someone tell me how this is different from what we have now? I've had to get fingerprinted many times at Big 5. What's different about this ordinance?

nick
05-04-2009, 9:08 PM
If you buy from that store nothing has really changed for you. They were already required to jump through the same record keeping hoops. It's just that the mayor never misses a change for a PR show.

+1. I might be wrong, but I haven't spotted any differenes between this one and the old ordnances. They already required the signature and thumbprinting crap, thus forbidding mail-order ammo. They just want to give their boy Weiss a PR opportunity. I hope the moron loses.

nick
05-04-2009, 9:09 PM
I'm missing something here. Its probably mixed in with all the words in the OP, and I'm trying to watch the game, so can someone tell me how this is different from what we have now? I've had to get fingerprinted many times at Big 5. What's different about this ordinance?

I don't think it's any different. It's just the city officials wasting taxpayers' money to promote Weiss.

RRangel
05-04-2009, 9:16 PM
+1. I might be wrong, but I haven't spotted any differenes between this one and the old ordnances. They already required the signature and thumbprinting crap, thus forbidding mail-order ammo. They just want to give their boy Weiss a PR opportunity. I hope the moron loses.

It applies to businesses that do business in Los Angeles city. You know, those businesses with a Los Angeles city business permit? The law defines the hoops an ammo selling business must follow. It's not an ammunition ban, although the city is working on .50bmg.

nick
05-04-2009, 9:17 PM
Maybe the businesses should stop selling to LAPD, Barrett-style.

lioneaglegriffin
05-04-2009, 9:21 PM
Maybe the businesses should stop selling to LAPD, Barrett-style.

but but but, only the police need scary guns and standard-cap mags. :confused:

ZRX61
05-04-2009, 9:24 PM
Certainly the former. Sportsman club won't even ship to LA County, they are so scared.
However, Sportsmans Guide will ship to LA County :)

nick
05-04-2009, 9:43 PM
but but but, only the police need scary guns and standard-cap mags. :confused:

I'm sure they'll find where to buy them. And if not, they might be less inclined to support and promote such measures. Not likely to happen, anyway.

lioneaglegriffin
05-04-2009, 10:56 PM
I'm sure they'll find where to buy them. And if not, they might be less inclined to support and promote such measures. Not likely to happen, anyway.

if a gun is good enuf or a cop or a solider to bet their life on its good enough for a civillian to bet their lives on.

nick
05-05-2009, 7:05 AM
if a gun is good enuf or a cop or a solider to bet their life on its good enough for a civillian to bet their lives on.

No way I'm betting my life on a Beretta M9 if I have something (anything!) better! :)

Gator Monroe
05-05-2009, 7:36 AM
The Big 5 in Culver City is one of the oldest and Martin B. Retting is sounding better & better these days ...:thumbsup:

bernieb90
05-05-2009, 7:53 AM
Sounds like we have plenty of votes here for SFV secession. Just made a trip to Wally world in Valencia this weekend. No fingerprints, and they carry Winchester AA, and Remington STS shotgun shells. I grabbed some of the Federal Bulk packs for trap shooting. Other than that their shelves are pretty bare.

wash
05-05-2009, 8:17 AM
I was just down in San Pedro and I got fingerprinted when I bought some 20 guage shells at Big 5.

That's my first exposure to that law and it really sucks.

I saw a lot of Truantich signs too.

lioneaglegriffin
05-05-2009, 11:22 AM
No way I'm betting my life on a Beretta M9 if I have something (anything!) better! :)

then get a sig 229 FLEO's use 'em, or a glock. 92/M9 arent the only guns, some special troops get 1911's :D

junker87
05-05-2009, 12:05 PM
The Big 5 in Culver City is one of the oldest and Martin B. Retting is sounding better & better these days ...:thumbsup:

Martin was one of the retail joints that had me swore off retail gun sales.

9mmlaw
05-05-2009, 12:32 PM
However, Sportsmans Guide will ship to LA County :)

Not in my experience they won't.

nick
05-05-2009, 8:15 PM
then get a sig 229 FLEO's use 'em, or a glock. 92/M9 arent the only guns, some special troops get 1911's :D

Got a few Glocks and Springfields for the job.

nick
05-05-2009, 8:16 PM
Not in my experience they won't.

They do. They also have rather silly restrictions on ridiculous things when it comes to CA though.

Gator Monroe
05-05-2009, 8:17 PM
Martin was one of the retail joints that had me swore off retail gun sales.

bET THE OTHER Joint was in Simi Valley ...:eek:

9mmlaw
05-06-2009, 2:58 PM
They do. They also have rather silly restrictions on ridiculous things when it comes to CA though.

News to me since they refused to ship to my house in Glendale or my father's in Covina, neither is in the City of LA but the County of LA was enough for them.

10mmwhore
05-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Its been in effect for about 10 1/2 years.

RRangel
05-27-2009, 6:43 PM
You know what they say about payback? :D

ZRX61
05-27-2009, 8:46 PM
Not in my experience they won't.
I just received 2 tins of 7.62x54R from them last month.... :)

What part of LA County are you in?