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View Full Version : Help with logistics...


J.A.G.
05-01-2009, 12:08 PM
Firstly, i've been searching the california laws to try and figure this stuff out for myself...but i'm either not looking in the right places, or I'm just not comprehending these things to the fullest extent. So. I have a situation and I'm going to present it to you. I am going to give you the facts, and I want you guys to expose the holes in it. I am going to be as specific as possible, without giving away any personal information as to not violate my own PERSEC on an open forum.

Here it goes.

I just recently found out it is legal for me to carry a concealed weapon in my place of work. So, now I am. however, my problem is with transporting it from home to work to home. This is what I've been doing. I have a small range bag where I have my pistol, with a lock on it, and I put it in one of the pouches of the bag (side question, do I even have to put a lock on the gun? or is it considered "locked" when in the trunk?). I have a small "pistol bag" that holds a pistol and several magazines that I only keep loaded magazines in. As I walk to the car, that little pistol bag is in the range bag. I put the range bag (with locked pistol in it) in the trunk, remove the pistol bag and put it in the front seat with me. When I get to work, I take the pistol bag, put it in the range bag, and head into the building. When I leave work, I do the same procedure.

First off, is there anything illegal about this scenario?

Second, If I were to not go home, but say go to the food store, or a friends house, is it illegal for me to have the bag in the trunk?

Third, If i was at a food store, and didn't want to leave the pistol in the car, is it legal to carry the bag into the store. Mind you, the pistol is LOCKED, and inside the bag. And there is no ammo in the gun, or in the bag.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here.

Joe

Decoligny
05-01-2009, 12:27 PM
Firstly, i've been searching the california laws to try and figure this stuff out for myself...but i'm either not looking in the right places, or I'm just not comprehending these things to the fullest extent. So. I have a situation and I'm going to present it to you. I am going to give you the facts, and I want you guys to expose the holes in it. I am going to be as specific as possible, without giving away any personal information as to not violate my own PERSEC on an open forum.

Here it goes.

I just recently found out it is legal for me to carry a concealed weapon in my place of work. So, now I am. however, my problem is with transporting it from home to work to home. This is what I've been doing. I have a small range bag where I have my pistol, with a lock on it, and I put it in one of the pouches of the bag (side question, do I even have to put a lock on the gun? or is it considered "locked" when in the trunk?). I have a small "pistol bag" that holds a pistol and several magazines that I only keep loaded magazines in. As I walk to the car, that little pistol bag is in the range bag. I put the range bag (with locked pistol in it) in the trunk, remove the pistol bag and put it in the front seat with me. When I get to work, I take the pistol bag, put it in the range bag, and head into the building. When I leave work, I do the same procedure.

First off, is there anything illegal about this scenario?

Second, If I were to not go home, but say go to the food store, or a friends house, is it illegal for me to have the bag in the trunk?

Third, If i was at a food store, and didn't want to leave the pistol in the car, is it legal to carry the bag into the store. Mind you, the pistol is LOCKED, and inside the bag. And there is no ammo in the gun, or in the bag.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here.

Joe

As I see it, you have a lock on your pistol and then have the pistol in the bag.
If this is the case, then you could be charged with carrying a concealed firearm. The reason is this, the Penal Code requires the gun, if concealed, to be carried INSIDE A SECURE CONTAINER, AND THE CONTAINER MUST BE LOCKED. People often get this confused with LOCKED (as in gun is locked), IN A SECURE CONTAINER.

Librarian
05-01-2009, 12:31 PM
Firstly, i've been searching the california laws to try and figure this stuff out for myself...but i'm either not looking in the right places, or I'm just not comprehending these things to the fullest extent. So. I have a situation and I'm going to present it to you. I am going to give you the facts, and I want you guys to expose the holes in it. I am going to be as specific as possible, without giving away any personal information as to not violate my own PERSEC on an open forum.

Here it goes.

I just recently found out it is legal for me to carry a concealed weapon in my place of work. So, now I am. however, my problem is with transporting it from home to work to home. This is what I've been doing. I have a small range bag where I have my pistol, with a lock on it, and I put it in one of the pouches of the bag (side question, do I even have to put a lock on the gun? or is it considered "locked" when in the trunk?). I have a small "pistol bag" that holds a pistol and several magazines that I only keep loaded magazines in. As I walk to the car, that little pistol bag is in the range bag. I put the range bag (with locked pistol in it) in the trunk, remove the pistol bag and put it in the front seat with me. When I get to work, I take the pistol bag, put it in the range bag, and head into the building. When I leave work, I do the same procedure.

First off, is there anything illegal about this scenario?

Second, If I were to not go home, but say go to the food store, or a friends house, is it illegal for me to have the bag in the trunk?

Third, If i was at a food store, and didn't want to leave the pistol in the car, is it legal to carry the bag into the store. Mind you, the pistol is LOCKED, and inside the bag. And there is no ammo in the gun, or in the bag.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here.

Joe

For transport purposes, between your vehicle and your place of work, the pistol must still be in a locked case of some kind. I can't tell from your description if the 'pistol bag' is locked.

No lock is required on the gun itself, and a lock on the gun does not substitute for a locked container. While actually in your vehicle, in the trunk functions as 'locked container'.

Other than that, 'first' is within my understanding of the law.

'Second' is legal.

'Third' is probably NOT legal for most places - there's a thread around here about legal Unloaded Concealed Carry that has a lot of discussion that might help.

joeyriv
05-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Sounds like you are a good candidate to L.U.C.C. your firearm when transporting it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking precautions, but you might be doing a little more than you need to. Keep the pistol unloaded and inside a locked container during transport, and you're good to go. Can you place a lock on your pistol bag? If so, then you are golden. There wouldn't be a need to carry that inside a range bag.
Now, as for carrying into a store, that's a little gray. I'm sure someone with a more analytical mind will chime in.
BTW, IANAL, and these are my own opinions as I understand the relevant laws.

DDT
05-01-2009, 12:43 PM
As everyone else has said the container the gun is in must be locked. Your trunk counts as a locked container as long as you don't have fold down back seats.

If you live or work in a place where you must transit publicly accessible areas, such as parking lots that other tenants or the public can get to the handgun must be in a locked container on the way to and from the car.

Your pistol is probably best left in the trunk of the car as any handgun in the passenger compartment must be in a locked container (or openly carried, but that's a REALLY bad idea although completely legal.) If a police officer pulls you over and sees a pistol bag in your car and you admit there is a pistol in the bag he now has probable cause to detain you and check the weapon. He will also almost certainly search the car.

Second is definitely legal assuming the handgun is either in the locked trunk or in a locked case or both.

Third is really interesting. Assuming you are a citizen of the US and a California resident it MAY be legal. The way the PC is written there is question as to which clauses impact each other and in which way. In other words it is unclear legislation and there is no case law directly addressing the situation. There are folks here who are doing exactly what you are asking about. Look for threads here with "locked concealed carry" or "plan B" for more information. There are literally hundreds of posts discussing this. If you choose to do it understand that if a police officer finds out you are carrying you will likely be in for some interaction with a District or City Attorney.


ETA: There is no advantage to keeping the ammunition in a separate container. Keep a full magazine in the pistol bag or "Plan B" binder. As long as the magazine isn't inserted into the magazine well there is no violation. Also, "loaded" has very specific meaning when discussing where and how you can carry a firearm so it's best to not refer to magazine as "loaded" it is either full or empty. I know it's a nit but we are talking about the law.

J.A.G.
05-01-2009, 12:51 PM
hmmm... thank you very much for the responses. This is great info.

I can put a lock on the bag. And in fact, I would rather do that than put a lock on the pistol anyway. So that's what I'll do. and as I understand it, that would put me in total legality with the law.

As for the third scenario. Are you saying carrying the unlocked bag (with or without a lock on the pistol), would be ok? I'm sort of confused. Or are you saying if the bag was locked, it would be ok (as in locked container)? Also, if I was carrying the bag into a grocery store, and it was locked and so forth, and I had magazines say in a mag pouch on my hip. is that kosher?

this is all very mind numbing.

joeyriv - I'm a little confused about one sentence in your post...
Sounds like you are a good candidate to L.U.C.C. your firearm when transporting it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking precautions, but you might be doing a little more than you need to. Keep the pistol unloaded and inside a locked container during transport, and you're good to go. Can you place a lock on your pistol bag? If so, then you are golden. There wouldn't be a need to carry that inside a range bag.


but again, thank you for the detailed responses. and i'll be sure to check out some of those other threads.

DDT
05-01-2009, 12:58 PM
As for the third scenario. Are you saying carrying the unlocked bag (with or without a lock on the pistol), would be ok? I'm sort of confused. Or are you saying if the bag was locked, it would be ok (as in locked container)? Also, if I was carrying the bag into a grocery store, and it was locked and so forth, and I had magazines say in a mag pouch on my hip. is that kosher?


unlocked bag containing pistol --- VERY BAD

Locked bag with pistol --- MAY be legal but if a cop knows there's a pistol in the bag you will likely become a defendant.

Magazines in pouch on hip is kosher, unless you are on a K-12 school campus.

If you are bound and determined to carry in a grocery store read the threads on "Locked concealed Carry" and "Plan B" or consider open carry which has a ton of other implications but there's a lot of information on how to do so on other "open carry" forums such as opencarry.org

The minds that help organize this crazy group on CalGuns do NOT recommend individuals open carry at this time.

There is a lot of legal work being done to undo some of the crazy laws in California. The folks organizing that legal work will have a better chance of being successful if we all sit tight and keep our powder dry while they work to help us regain our rights.

J.A.G.
05-01-2009, 1:26 PM
DDT,

I am familiar with opencarry.org. I am also not totally convinced open carry is a good idea, so don't worry, i won't be doing that any time soon.

I'm just happy to know putting the pistol in the bag and locking the bag is good to go. I'll also be putting it in the trunk, as to not draw any attention in the unlikely event I get pulled over.

Thanks for the info.

DDT
05-01-2009, 1:30 PM
My pleasure. I really hope there is a time, soon, that we don't have to worry about needless detention because we choose to exercise our second amendment rights.

joeyriv
05-01-2009, 4:15 PM
[quote=J.A.G.;2406957]
joeyriv - I'm a little confused about one sentence in your post...
Sounds like you are a good candidate to L.U.C.C. your firearm when transporting it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking precautions, but you might be doing a little more than you need to. Keep the pistol unloaded and inside a locked container during transport, and you're good to go. Can you place a lock on your pistol bag? If so, then you are golden. There wouldn't be a need to carry that inside a range bag.
quote]

J.A.G., sounds like you are on the right track. I was referring to:

"As I walk to the car, that little pistol bag is in the range bag. I put the range bag (with locked pistol in it) in the trunk, remove the pistol bag and put it in the front seat with me. When I get to work, I take the pistol bag, put it in the range bag, and head into the building...."
I was just trying to say that if you use your smaller pistol case as your locked container, you really don't need to place it into another bag, unless it's just to be less conspicuous as a pistol case. Didn't mean to cause confusion. Just one container (locked) will suffice.

Good luck.

N6ATF
05-02-2009, 11:34 AM
As everyone else has said the container the gun is in must be locked. Your trunk counts as a locked container as long as you don't have fold down back seats which have their trunk-side levers in the unlocked position, or if they are unlockable period.

Fixed.