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View Full Version : Barrel Lug = Threaded Barrel??


dexter9659
04-30-2009, 6:01 PM
Does a barrel lug constitute a threaded barrel? If they are not the same, then would a pistol with lugs would be legal (assuming no other "evil" features)


Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

bwiese
04-30-2009, 7:24 PM
A threaded bbl is a threaded bbl.

A lug is not a thread, even if it can accept a flash suppressor, etc.

If muzzle attachments are needed to a bbl and threading results in an illegal configuration, a 'bi -lock' or a special ball detent lock can be used. A perfect example is the way the muzzle devices were attached to Professional Ordnance AR pistols with the ball detent method: that made them compliant with (expired) 1994 Fed AWB.

slappomatt
04-30-2009, 8:47 PM
now what about all the handguns that have rails for lights? They could technicly accept VFG's and lugged barrels could accept just about anything illegal. does the rest of that sentense not count if its not threaded?

dexter9659
04-30-2009, 8:51 PM
Thanks Bill! That is what I suspected.

bwiese
04-30-2009, 9:02 PM
now what about all the handguns that have rails for lights? They could technicly accept VFG's and lugged barrels could accept just about anything illegal.

does the rest of that sentence not count if its not threaded?

Correct... the item 'threaded barrel' in phrase:
"(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
is the banned item, and the rest is just clarifying text. [There might be a oddball legal defense if the threading were particularly unusual and no extant device on the market had those matching threads: it would not have the capability of accepting anything unless those items were modified (which won't fly).]

So this phrase does not ban pic rails/light rails on the bottom of a handgun dustcover, even though those could also accept no-no features like VFGs.

Lugged barrels are not a banned item (nor are bayonet lugs) and could be a legal alternative for a detachable pistol muzzle device without using threads. Ball-detent locks also'd serve a similar purpose without traipsing over the threaded-pistol-barrel ban.

ironpete
04-30-2009, 9:06 PM
I thought a VFG on a pistol turned it into an AOW which causes many different problems.

ke6guj
04-30-2009, 9:20 PM
I thought a VFG on a pistol turned it into an AOW which causes many different problems.It does, unless you have an approved Form 1 or Form 4.

But there aren't any constructive posssession regs federally for AOWs, so unless you have the VFG actually attached, its ok.

NSR500
05-01-2009, 2:10 AM
Nice, so a three lug on an AR pistol is not a threaded barrel.

CA_Libertarian
05-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Correct... the item 'threaded barrel' in phrase:
"(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
is the banned item, and the rest is just clarifying text. [There might be a oddball legal defense if the threading were particularly unusual and no extant device on the market had those matching threads: it would not have the capability of accepting anything unless those items were modified (which won't fly).]

They make forward handgrips that attach to the barrel threading? I've been in CA so long I would have never thought of this...

Very interesting to know that a forward handgrip is OK if not attached via barrel threading... though I still don't see a practical reason to do this.

bwiese
05-01-2009, 10:22 AM
They make forward handgrips that attach to the barrel threading? I've been in CA so long I would have never thought of this...

Very interesting to know that a forward handgrip is OK if not attached via barrel threading... though I still don't see a practical reason to do this.

NO NO NO NO NO. You're misconstruing some of the discussion above...
You simply don't want any forward vertical grip on a handgun ==> Fed AOW, and can trigger AW status on semiauto pistols.

ke6guj
05-01-2009, 10:30 AM
They make forward handgrips that attach to the barrel threading? I've been in CA so long I would have never thought of this...yes, one example is the K-grip for the MP5, http://www.onlinesecureordering.com/index.html?639.html&1

Very interesting to know that a forward handgrip is OK if not attached via barrel threading... though I still don't see a practical reason to do this.

Nope. CA also restricts "second handgrips" from being attached to a semi-automatic handgun with a detachable magazine.

And you have Federal law that considers a handgun with a VFG being illegal unless properly registered as an AOW.

ironpete
05-01-2009, 3:04 PM
What if I had an M1 Carbine style flash suppressor...no lugs or threads. (example below)

Forgive me, I'm just trying to verify that I understand the implications of the PC. Going back to bweise's post, it is the "threaded barrel" that is the issue.

Therefore a "clamp-on" flash suppressor would be kosher.

To stay legal the VFG is out because that conflicts with other laws (unless you have a form 1 or 4 with CLEO signoff or a trust).
Suppressor is also out because it conflicts with other laws.

Probably not what was intended when it was written (like OLLs).

http://www.keepshooting.com/productimages/firearmaccessories/add-ons/m1-flash-hider3big.jpg

-pete

dragonbait1a
05-01-2009, 3:20 PM
A Flash suppressor is a AW "feature" as well, so no.

RGB

ironpete
05-06-2009, 3:20 PM
I'm a moron...yes of course.

I was just too excited when I was typing.

ke6guj
05-06-2009, 5:22 PM
A Flash suppressor is a AW "feature" as well, so no.

RGB

A flash hider is not an AW feature on a handgun. A threaded barrel "capable of accepting a flash suppressor" is a feature, but the actual flash suppressor is not a feature.

dragonbait1a
05-07-2009, 11:20 AM
A flash hider is not an AW feature on a handgun. A threaded barrel "capable of accepting a flash suppressor" is a feature, but the actual flash suppressor is not a feature.

Oops, sorry about that, I glanced at the rifles list. The Pistols list does NOT specify any actual muzzle attachment as a "feature." I was wrong.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds

My apologies, now we just need lugged pistol barrels and flash-hiders/Compensators/fake cans to go on them.

RGB