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caiman
04-30-2009, 10:27 AM
So my questions are these- Are the motorcycle folks who stop traffic legally allowed to stop traffic?... if so what is the CA section/code on it?
&
If they are not allowed but do it anyway, what would happen if I decided to take the green light and go about my merry way?

It's not that I in sensitive to the deceased, but sometimes, it takes longer that if waiting for a train. I see many people just turn off their engines.

thanks for your replies.

big jon
04-30-2009, 10:35 AM
I wonder how you would like your LAST DRIVE? why would you be in such a hury to be put in the ground?
When I see those it just make me think of the people who have gone before me I don`t flame just enjoy some memories.;)

yzernie
04-30-2009, 11:06 AM
Are the motorcycle folks who stop traffic legally allowed to stop traffic?... if so what is the CA section/code on it?
Yes they are allowed to stop traffic. There is a protocol they must follow on order to do the blocking.

If they are not allowed but do it anyway, what would happen if I decided to take the green light and go about my merry way?
You are required by the vehicle code to not proceed until it is safe. Even if you get a green light you cannot preceed until it is safe to do so.

It's not that I in sensitive to the deceased, but sometimes, it takes longer that if waiting for a train. I see many people just turn off their engines.
Sometimes inconvienent, yes but, I will pay my respects as necessary.

Two Shots
04-30-2009, 11:11 AM
Local authorities may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution to regulate traffic at such locations that may require traffic directions for orderly traffic flow. It is the purpose of this amendment to use the power, conferred on the City of Stockton , pursuant to California Vehicle Code section 21100(e), to appoint persons other than traffic officers to direct and regulate traffic for a funeral procession.
http://www.stocktongov.com/smc/Chapter10/Ch10_PartXIV.cfm


http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d02/vc2817.htm
if the peace officer is in a peace officer's uniform, and is in the process of escorting a funeral procession,

desmark6
04-30-2009, 7:44 PM
WOW, it's kinda sad that you would actually be so bothered by patiently waiting to pay respectd for the deceased, AND more importantly the grieving family members who are taking the final drive with a loved one. May be time to move......

doctor_vals
05-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Local authorities may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution to regulate traffic at such locations that may require traffic directions for orderly traffic flow. It is the purpose of this amendment to use the power, conferred on the City of Stockton , pursuant to California Vehicle Code section 21100(e), to appoint persons other than traffic officers to direct and regulate traffic for a funeral procession.
http://www.stocktongov.com/smc/Chapter10/Ch10_PartXIV.cfm


http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d02/vc2817.htm
if the peace officer is in a peace officer's uniform, and is in the process of escorting a funeral procession,

Thank you!
I argue with my friend, and you prove - I was right:

Disregard of Peace Officer: Funeral Procession

2817. Any person who disregards any traffic signal or direction given by a peace officer authorized pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 70 of the Penal Code to escort funeral processions, if the peace officer is in a peace officer's uniform, and is in the process of escorting a funeral procession, shall be guilty of an infraction and subject to the penalties provided in subdivision (a) of Section 42001.

Added Ch. 1108, Stats. 1984. Effective January 1, 1985.

gotgunz
05-03-2009, 1:06 AM
From Smokey & the Bandit:

Junior: "Damn, he had a lot of friends, didn't he?"
Buford T. Justice: "If they'd a cremated the sum-*****. I could be kickin' that Mr. Bandit's *** around the moon by now."

Having said that; being raised properly I stop and have been known to get out of the car as processions pass by. My wife thinks I am odd but she is from California, what does she know?

MikeinnLA
05-03-2009, 2:35 AM
I usually just watch the procession and wonder why I'm always in such a darn hurry.

Mike

biochembruin
05-03-2009, 8:53 AM
California Vehicle Code Section 2817. Any person who disregards any traffic signal or direction
given by a peace officer authorized pursuant to subdivision (d) of
Section 70 of the Penal Code to escort funeral processions, if the
peace officer is in a peace officer's uniform, and is in the process
of escorting a funeral procession, shall be guilty of an infraction
and subject to the penalties provided in subdivision (a) of Section
42001.

Unit74
05-03-2009, 11:05 PM
That's all fine and dandy, but the guys I see are security guards on retired police KZ1000's.

They are not officers of any sworn capacity, nor do they have any powers to stop traffic. In my opinion, they attempt to represent themselves as motor officers via an official looking uniform and the bike.

It's my opinion that they are in violation of obstruction of traffic by blocking lanes and should be cited accordingly. There is no legal exemption for the average citizen, such as these security-type guards on motors, to cause an undue delay of the motoring public.

If the funeral home wants an unbroken procession, they need to hire legitimate officers and conduct business legally. Not these wanna-be cops who probably sleep with their britches on at night to make themselves feel complete.

masameet
05-04-2009, 5:16 AM
Here in the SF Bay Area some of the funeral procession motor escorts are retired motor LEOs. So definitely not motor LEO wannabes.

Last December I met one of these guys while I was riding south on El Camino Real in San Mateo. Traffic had slowed to a crawl and as I shared up the No. 1 lane I saw why: A lone motor cop in the No. 3 lane! Great. I'll talk to him! were my initial thoughts. But as I rode up closer, I saw that his blue uniform was missing all the important LE insignia. At the stop lights, and I suppose because we both had ear plugs in, we shouted at each other. lol He was white and said he was a retired cop (like within a year or two) (and I won't mention which dept.). His gleaming and pristine 2008 BMW R1200 RT even bore his old Sgt.'s rank and surname in gold stenciling on the side of his front fender. He said he'd done a funeral escort earlier in the day and was now on some personal errands. He also gave me the name of the local funeral escort service he was with. Later, when I got home, I found it online and then mentioned my encounter with him on a motor forum I'm on. Offhand I don't recall the company's name and as I recall about five or six retired motor LEOs comprise the company.

About a month or two later, as I rode home on I-80, between Berkeley and El Cerrito, I came across a funeral procession being escorted by two other non-LEO motor escorts. They were riding Harley Road Kings. The second bike looked very much like a motor cop's bike, but with a few missing/covered-up stickers. Both riders were black and the one on the second, newer Harley, considering the hard stare he gave me and his age, looked like he was probably an off-duty cop. Since they (and the funeral procession they were escorting) were only going about 62 mph, and in the No. 3 lane, I had no problem passing them at 65 in the No. 4 lane.

Unit74
05-05-2009, 12:02 PM
So you still have not justified them LEGALLY stopping and obstructing traffic.

If they are retired, they have no more sworn powers to do anything more than a private citizen. As such, they have to have a CCW from their chief to carry now.

If they want to escort w/o obstructions, I have no beef with that. But, if they are holding traffic at intersections or running traffic breaks, they should be cited accordingly.

There is no difference in a private citizen stopping an on-ramps lawful flow of traffic and these guys.

Recently on the 5 freeway in Orange county, I saw at least 6 of these yahoos holding on-ramps to NB traffic. The procession was stretched out over about 3 miles and doing 45 in the #4 lane on the freeway. The obstructions caused by holding the ramps were in pure violation of the spirit of the law and I was just hoping a CHP officer was around to scratch them a coupon for stupidity.

Funeral or not, they don't have any right to stop any traffic unless they are employed by the city or state they operate in and have been given those powers explicitly by the governing law enforcement authority. If they are off duty and acting as these escorts, not in there city or state uniform, and not on there city or state motor, they are operating as a private citizen and their powers do not extend into this type of enforcement.

gunrun45
05-05-2009, 12:19 PM
Yes, they are most likely bending the law if they are truely security and not LEO's.
Yes, you are being inconvenienced for a few moments of your obviously prescious day...
Yes, there are really greiving people in those cars that are saying goodbye to one of their loved one for the last time.
Yes, if you want to complain about a LE funeral procession you will most likely have some SERIOUS issues...
Yes, a CHP officer (or any other LEO) does NOT want to stand before before a judge and explain how he was a total jerk for writing a ticket to a funeral procession member...
Yes, this is a totally rediculous arguement.

If you have that much of a problem;
1. write down the name of the company
2. find google or your local yellow pages and get their number
3. Call them up and express you opinion.
4. If all else fails, call the local agency with jurisdiciton and provide them with the same info.

Don't expect ANYONE to stop a funeral procession and write a ticket. How do you think that one would play out on your local news station...

Never mind, I'm disapointed with myself for even bothering to reply to this...

Unit74
05-05-2009, 12:31 PM
They are not bending the law, they are breaking it as a company policy.

LE processions are done in compliance with the law.

I would be happy to explain in front of a judge the violations at hand.

It is not ridiculous. It brings to light an issue with security guards acting as LEO's. If that is ridiculous to you then I guess you don't mind if Pinkerton comes when you call 911.

I wouldn't have to call and complain. I'm sure that with a few citations, the company would be calling me.

masameet
05-05-2009, 1:25 PM
I was providing some stories. Sheesh.

Anyway here's a quote from a genuine motorcycle cop who offered this info on another forum:
... Most cities and counties have ordinances giving funeral processions privileges and some make it unlawful to interfere with a properly marked or escorted procession.

Just like police motors, the private escort riders are providing a service. They are there to keep the procession together and warn traffic as to their approach or to hold intersections as needed to enforce the procession's lawful right-of-way under local ordinances, if applicable.

They are not police and do not have police powers. They are really just helping the procession and aiding local traffic by getting the procession through as quickly and smoothly as possible with as little impact as necessary.

In places where there are no ordinances pertaining to ROW for a funeral procession, it is just a matter of courtesy. If you think blowing them off because they are not cops will help matters it will not. Besides the kharma issues if you do cause an accident, you may really find out what local laws there are in place to protect their actions.

They really don't want to hold you up any longer than necessary and BELIEVE ME, they do make a procession go much smoother and safer.

gunrun45
05-05-2009, 5:06 PM
It is not ridiculous. It brings to light an issue with security guards acting as LEO's. If that is ridiculous to you then I guess you don't mind if Pinkerton comes when you call 911.

I wouldn't have to call and complain. I'm sure that with a few citations, the company would be calling me.

You do realize that is some cities, they do... Just thought I would throw that out there

desmark6
05-05-2009, 5:59 PM
UNIT74, so is it also your opinion that we should cite CalTrans everytime they block a lane and cause a traffic issue, I mean, they are not LEO and they are complicating you very precious day!!

GEEZ! To be honest, I would be looking for a reason to give you, UNIT74, a citation for whatever I could if you were to disrespect the grieving family/deceased person by interferring with/driving through/ or whatever the procession.

May be time to re-evaluate your life and what is truly important, and a few extra minutes getting to work SHOULD NOT be that important to you.

masameet
05-05-2009, 6:29 PM
Well, just for you, Unit74, I called a few numbers to find these guys. So, if you're so inclined, you can give them a call and chew them out for being "security guards."

Coastal Motor Escorts (http://coastalmotorescorts.com/index.html) is a bunch of retired motor cops here in the East Bay. Some riders complain about them looking like wannabe cops. But from the photos and captions, anyone can deduce that they were cops at one time. (And I really like that purplish-colored signal on the first bike in the group photo. lol)

Since they're all ex-cops, I would venture to guess that they're very well versed in the local county and city laws regarding escorting funeral processions as civilians. Since at least one of the bikes has the CHP logo on the fairing, I would guess that that ex-LEO probably bought his old bike on retirement. OPD motors are still into Harleys so the one retired OPD officer with the BMW has definitely gone off the reservation! (J/K!)

Also as former motor cops, if that's what they were, they're most likely very well trained in escorting vehicles and blocking traffic.

FLIGHT762
05-05-2009, 10:14 PM
Local authorities may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution to regulate traffic at such locations that may require traffic directions for orderly traffic flow. It is the purpose of this amendment to use the power, conferred on the City of Stockton , pursuant to California Vehicle Code section 21100(e), to appoint persons other than traffic officers to direct and regulate traffic for a funeral procession.
http://www.stocktongov.com/smc/Chapter10/Ch10_PartXIV.cfm


http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d02/vc2817.htm
if the peace officer is in a peace officer's uniform, and is in the process of escorting a funeral procession,

Unit 74, Two shots correctly pointed out the law regarding (21100(e)) to appoint persons other than traffic officers, even temporarily. As he also pointed out, it is local city ordinance which covers them(the temporary traffic officers) they (their company) would have to comply with the city ordinance of being certified to preform this temporary traffic duty. If in fact, they are certified as Two shots pointed out in the Stockton city ordinance, If you drove through or interfered with the procession, you would likely be cited for a city ordinance violation.

In the city I worked for we also had an ordinance covering driving through a funeral procession.

I understand your frustration with security guards stopping traffic, I felt the same way until understanding the law. Since funeral processions can travel through several jurisdictions, you wouldn't know the city ordinances for each jurisdiction. In the example given by Two shots for the city of Stockton, If certified, these security guards can stop cross traffic as long as the front vehicle entered the intersection when the light is green. All other motorists will have to wait until the procession passes.

In some jurisdictions, these security guards may not have the authority to stop traffic. I do know that in Colma,Ca. that city takes funeral processions very seriously and have very strict ordinances regarding driving through or interfering with a procession.

Vehicle code 2817 deals directly with Peace officers directing a procession. That is the citing section for failure to obey them. If the security guards are certified, the violator would be cited for a City ordinance section.

As frustrating as it is, I feel it's prudent to just obey the directions of these guys unless you specifically know the ordinances in the jurisdiction your in, but you're taking a chance of being cited yourself.

Unit74
05-06-2009, 1:41 PM
What's up with the personal shots guys? I did not make it personal to you guys.

The OP asked for opinions and that's what I gave. I am not the judge or the jury. But it is my opinion that here in SoCal, these guys on bikes are not following the law. Plain and simple.

I'm not trying to beef the grieving family at all. But the funeral homes are hiring guys to break the laws as a policy. I have no idea about your local ordinances, but in these parts, it's unlawful to hold traffic unless you are a traffic officer or LEO.

What else is there to explain?

FLIGHT762
05-06-2009, 2:42 PM
What's up with the personal shots guys? I did not make it personal to you guys.

The OP asked for opinions and that's what I gave. I am not the judge or the jury. But it is my opinion that here in SoCal, these guys on bikes are not following the law. Plain and simple.

I'm not trying to beef the grieving family at all. But the funeral homes are hiring guys to break the laws as a policy. I have no idea about your local ordinances, about in these parts, it's unlawful to hold traffic unless you are a traffic officer or LEO.

What else is there to explain?

I was only trying to explain this to you. Do you know for a factThat the city or county you are complaining about has absolutely no city/county ordinances covering this? Just about every jurisdiction has some ordinances covering funeral processions. I think if you want a definite answer from your area, I would suggest you go to the local CHP office and speak to a supervisor with your questions. If they don't have an immediate answer to your question, they will get it for you. As a law enforcement officer, I've called them or went to their office to get questions answered about window tinting enforcement and non compliance questions among others. They are very helpful and have answered my questions. The vehicle code is a large document and can be difficult to navigate . You may find out you are right, but if you find out some of these guys are allowed to do this, no sense getting your blood pressure up over something you can't control.

I get miffed every time a Harley drives past me with their illegal loud exhaust pipes. As an officer, I tried to enforce this, but quickly found my self alone in enforcing this. Officers I worked with had illegal pipes on their personal Harleys and would not enforce the law. I got into a a few shouting matches with them over this. Only me a couple of other of my officers would enforce the window tinting laws. I had to purchase a my own electronic tint meter to measure the darkness of the tint and to avoid lengthy arguments. This is a whole other story. Enough of that.

Good luck with yours.

Unit74
05-08-2009, 3:39 PM
I get miffed every time a Harley drives past me with their illegal loud exhaust pipes. As an officer, I tried to enforce this, but quickly found my self alone in enforcing this.

Good luck with yours.

We had an MC enforcement op. and most of them got tickets for 27151. A CARB rep showed up at the court day and pretty much said we were SOL of enforcement on M/Cs.

Reason being is that the BAR doesn't have any inspection stations capable of dealing with M/C's. So, sure, you can cite em for it, but if they contest, it should be dismissed as they cannot get an in-compliance notice from the BAR at this time. CARB is working on a solution to the matter though.

compsoftstation
05-24-2009, 4:03 AM
Plain and simple... Take a different route home! Problem solved!