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AEC1
04-29-2009, 8:24 AM
From what I hear on the radio HJ 5 will come up today. An amendment to the constitution to eliminate Presidential Term Limits.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hj111-5


To think they would sneak this in while we are all worried about swine flu. Amazing. The great one really does want to rule the world doesent he?

rabagley
04-29-2009, 9:19 AM
There's no sneaking in an Amendment to the US Constitution. It will still have to be ratified by the states and you can be sure that there will be enormous media coverage over the first new Amendment with traction since civil rights. Except that this proposal won't have any traction. It's not going anywhere.

I said that if there was a Bush as POTUS in 2009 that my family was leaving the country. I think I'm going to continue that and also say that if Obama is POTUS in 2017, we're leaving the country.

Personally, I want six year terms and a single lifetime POTUS term (same rules for VP succession as now). Presidents (and most politicians) do screwed up things when they're working to get re-elected.

hill billy
04-29-2009, 9:48 AM
It'll never pass. Write it down.

yellowfin
04-29-2009, 9:53 AM
It will never pass if we are paying attention and fight it, but only if. It's sickening that they would try, though.

AKman
04-29-2009, 10:15 AM
...Personally, I want six year terms and a single lifetime POTUS term (same rules for VP succession as now). Presidents (and most politicians) do screwed up things when they're working to get re-elected.

This is the law in Mexico. It's worked wonders there.:rolleyes:

AEC1
04-29-2009, 10:23 AM
this is the 12th year in a row the rep from the Bronx has brought this up, it never gets traction, but what a waste of taxpayer money, and representatives time, shoulden't they be working on something better?

DisgruntledReaper
04-29-2009, 11:28 AM
NFWIH----you guys figure the acronym out..it would all be '**************' if I tried the words...IF this was done WITHOUT ratification...time for another revolution for sure!

rabagley
04-29-2009, 12:08 PM
This is the law in Mexico. It's worked wonders there.:rolleyes:

Just because a particular change is a good idea does not mean that it is sufficient to cure all ills. Mexico's got problems big enough that improving term limits to reduce political corruption isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

I think it was a step in the right direction for them, but Mexico still has a marathon to run before they stop being a third-world disaster.

KWA-S
04-29-2009, 11:31 PM
Well, I trust the founding fathers a lot more than the Obama fanboys trying to get our Dear Leader, the Messiah, a lifetime term.

I'd like to see the elimination of the electoral college though.

DDT
04-29-2009, 11:39 PM
Well, I trust the founding fathers a lot more than the Obama fanboys trying to get our Dear Leader, the Messiah, a lifetime term.

I'd like to see the elimination of the electoral college though.

Funny the electoral college was put in by the founding fathers and term limits weren't. Presidential term limits are only needed thanks to FDR. Ever president up to that point followed George Washington's TRADITION of only serving 2 terms. FDR wanted more and got them (4 actually.) Then in 1951 they ratified the 22nd Amendment creating de-jure term limits for the president.

JDay
04-30-2009, 1:06 AM
Personally, I want six year terms and a single lifetime POTUS term (same rules for VP succession as now). Presidents (and most politicians) do screwed up things when they're working to get re-elected.

I would love to see single terms for everyone in congress.

KWA-S
04-30-2009, 3:18 AM
Funny the electoral college was put in by the founding fathers and term limits weren't. Presidential term limits are only needed thanks to FDR. Ever president up to that point followed George Washington's TRADITION of only serving 2 terms. FDR wanted more and got them (4 actually.) Then in 1951 they ratified the 22nd Amendment creating de-jure term limits for the president.

Yeah, that is kinda funny. I've always just seen the college as a way to fudge the numbers a bit. Voting to vote for somebody seems a bit convoluted to me. Looking at this wikipedia table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_po pular_vote_margin) You see that plenty of presidents lost the popular vote, but not the electoral. Interesting that FDR stayed in that long...I have got to read more about him.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake there.

obeygiant
04-30-2009, 5:44 AM
Yeah, that is kinda funny. I've always just seen the college as a way to fudge the numbers a bit. Voting to vote for somebody seems a bit convoluted to me. Looking at this wikipedia table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_po pular_vote_margin) You see that plenty of presidents lost the popular vote, but not the electoral. Interesting that FDR stayed in that long...I have got to read more about him.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake there.

Get rid of the electoral college so that our vote in California counts for something.

JBird33
04-30-2009, 6:25 AM
Get rid of the electoral college so that our vote in California counts for something.

+1 Amen to that.

DDT
04-30-2009, 12:09 PM
Thanks for pointing out my mistake there.

Picking nits since 1966. :D

DDT
04-30-2009, 12:24 PM
It is somewhat sad that we require term limits for POTUS. I think it merely goes to show that the men who have filled the seat haven't lived up to the expectations of our founders.

I have little interest in term limits. If you get a good person in the House or Senate they should be able to stay. In some ways term limits lead to grandstanding. A state rep has to do something spectacular to build a name so they can run for state senate when they term out as a rep. This kind of grandstanding is not good as it leads to populism.

Now, what I would like to see....

No Warchest. Any money you raise for election and don't spend goes to the General Fund after the elections. No fund raising until 12 months before an election/primary. No transfers of war chests from one candidate to another. If you raise 12 million for the primary and lose only spending 6 million you cannot transfer to the winners war chest for the general election or pay off their campaign debts.

No retirement other than self-funded IRAs or partial matched 401Ks and no health benefits other than paid private programs available to any other citizen.

Further; our elected representatives should be required to disclose ANY money spent on them by lobbyists, range days, private jet golf outings, vacations, hookers, etc. And this should be reported monthly or at least quarterly and available on their legislative website, no PRAs or FOIAs or phone calls and copying charges etc.

All criminal penalties should be trebled for holders of public office. Public office is the MOST POWERFUL tool in this nation. Politics is power, power over people's lives, power over millions or billions or even trillions of dollars. When someone uses that tool to do evil they need to pay a higher price than John Q. Public.

Finally, breaking the law or abusing power should disallow anyone from running for office EVER again for ANY office. Bounce checks for 4 years at the house bank? Abuse franking privileges at the house post office? Hide lobbyist monies? Commit perjury? You can never RUN for office again.

yellowfin
04-30-2009, 12:38 PM
It is somewhat sad that we require term limits for POTUS. I think it merely goes to show that the men who have filled the seat haven't lived up to the expectations of our founders.

I have little interest in term limits. If you get a good person in the House or Senate they should be able to stay. In some ways term limits lead to grandstanding. A state rep has to do something spectacular to build a name so they can run for state senate when they term out as a rep. This kind of grandstanding is not good as it leads to populism.

Now, what I would like to see....

No Warchest. Any money you raise for election and don't spend goes to the General Fund after the elections. No fund raising until 12 months before an election/primary. No transfers of war chests from one candidate to another. If you raise 12 million for the primary and lose only spending 6 million you cannot transfer to the winners war chest for the general election or pay off their campaign debts.

No retirement other than self-funded IRAs or partial matched 401Ks and no health benefits other than paid private programs available to any other citizen.

Further; our elected representatives should be required to disclose ANY money spent on them by lobbyists, range days, private jet golf outings, vacations, hookers, etc. And this should be reported monthly or at least quarterly and available on their legislative website, no PRAs or FOIAs or phone calls and copying charges etc.

All criminal penalties should be trebled for holders of public office. Public office is the MOST POWERFUL tool in this nation. Politics is power, power over people's lives, power over millions or billions or even trillions of dollars. When someone uses that tool to do evil they need to pay a higher price than John Q. Public.

Finally, breaking the law or abusing power should disallow anyone from running for office EVER again for ANY office. Bounce checks for 4 years at the house bank? Abuse franking privileges at the house post office? Hide lobbyist monies? Commit perjury? You can never RUN for office again.

To get that done would require that we would be in control of our politicians--if we were, we wouldn't need that in the first place.

DDT
04-30-2009, 12:56 PM
To get that done would require that we would be in control of our politicians--if we were, we wouldn't need that in the first place.

We were once, and probably will be again. Hopefully when we are once again in charge of our politicians we will not underestimate their proclivity to such do things.

KWA-S
04-30-2009, 12:59 PM
Hmm....what do y'all think of prohibiting consecutive terms? I noticed that just about all presidents have consecutive terms, and have sorta wondered if it helps to re-run. I mean, you already have a rep, you can plan 8 years instead of 4, and you can use presidential resources to campaign! Id rather not see my politicians spend their efforts on getting reelected when they should be using the same time to, say, do their job. BTW, president is just an example...I wonder how long Madam Speaker has had that office.