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BigBamBoo
04-28-2009, 2:56 PM
..............

PolishMike
04-28-2009, 3:03 PM
this has been posted 5 times. It doesnt matter. He was a democrat already, just wearing a different shirt. Doesnt change anything.

fairfaxjim
04-28-2009, 3:11 PM
If the future of freedom hinges on Arlen Specter, we were hosed long ago and there is no hope. That guys mind died long ago, he is just too senile to remember it.

rabagley
04-28-2009, 3:33 PM
Specter was one of the biggest screamers around the cop-killer ammo that turned out to be a Brady scam (both a hollow point and armor piercing!)

Anyone remember what that was called?

He's never been on our side.

BillCA
04-28-2009, 3:51 PM
Hmm.....now what??

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090428/ap_on_go_co/us_specter_switch

C'mon... at least post the headline and first paragraph from the link. I detest "drive by" link posts, especially when I can comment without reading the article.

As to Arlen Specter, the man is the kind of politican your father always warned you about. He only cares about staying in office. Sprecter has no redeeming characteristics at all. He can change his position faster than a weather vane in a tornado.

Two Shots
04-28-2009, 3:55 PM
Specter was one of the biggest screamers around the cop-killer ammo that turned out to be a Brady scam (both a hollow point and armor piercing!)

Anyone remember what that was called?

He's never been on our side.

That was the KTW rounds that never were sold to the public and never killed any LEO's back then.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html

MP301
04-29-2009, 2:59 AM
If the future of freedom hinges on Arlen Specter, we were hosed long ago and there is no hope. That guys mind died long ago, he is just too senile to remember it.

Hahahah..I just heard a news bried about this and he sounded like his mind died! I thought it funny that the newsie said something to the effect that "even though he htought about making the change before, he didnt act until he feared losing the next election.... No S**t sherlock!

TheBundo
04-29-2009, 3:19 AM
What a ridiculous question. Those that want to get rid of guns are not likely in the majority anywhere, as "blue-dog" Democrats are very pro-gun.

Oh, and by the way, those pro-gun have all the guns. There will never be a confrontation, nor any shots fired, as long as everyone keeps their senses. They can have their abortions, we can have our guns.

cousinkix1953
04-29-2009, 4:54 AM
Specter the Defector is more at home in the anti-gun Democratic Party. He sold us out to the enemy a long time ago. I don't have much use for politicians; who believe that cheap WW2 Italian army surplus Mannichler-Carcano carbines, loaded with crappy surplus 6.5x52mm ammo have magical powers either...

BroncoBob
04-29-2009, 5:53 AM
He changed because he knew that he wouldn't win another election as a republican. No surprise, he was a RINO anyway. Pat Toomey would have kicked his butt in the up coming 2010 primary.

Specter, 79 and seeking a sixth term in 2010, conceded bluntly that his chances of winning a Pennsylvania Republican primary next year were bleak in a party grown increasingly conservative.

cousinkix1953
04-29-2009, 6:47 AM
John McCain was too old to be president in last years's race. He would have been 73 on Innauguration Day of 2009. Specter the Defector is even older. He's way too damn old to remain the Senate in either party. He's better off joining his Democratic allies; who believe in unfettered abortions, gun control laws and more illegal aliens...

socal2310
04-29-2009, 7:30 AM
Hmm.....now what??

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090428/ap_on_go_co/us_specter_switch

Contrary to hysterical media speculation. The balance of power in the Senate is determined by how many votes any given legislation can get, not party affiliation. RINO's who change affiliation don't change voting habits. There is a reason you hear that Senators voted, "largely along party lines," instead of, "strictly along party lines."

Ryan

Heatseeker
04-29-2009, 7:53 AM
Just another two-faced dirt-bag politico trying retain his position because he's too old to look for a real job!

Hans Gruber
04-29-2009, 8:03 AM
He seems to be fairly solid pro 2A since at least '98:

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Arlen_Specter_Gun_Control.htm

As long as he votes my way on 2A, I really don't care what party he's in.

bulgron
04-29-2009, 8:07 AM
If the Republicans lose the ability to filibuster, then Obama can put whoever he wants on federal benches. This is what worries me about the most the Dems getting a 60 vote lead in the Senate.

Of course, I don't think Specter would really join Republicans in a filibuster of a bad judicial appointment, so this story probably doesn't really make any difference. But still, I'm watching the Democrats inch up on that magic 60 number, and it's making my skin crawl.

Bush appointed about 1/3 of the currently sitting judges on the federal bench, so I don't think Obama can do all that much damage overnight. But if we don't get some more votes on the Republican side in 2010, we could be in some deep weeds.

Heatseeker
04-29-2009, 8:10 AM
Doesn't the senate majority rest on Al Franken??? God help us all...

Gator Monroe
04-29-2009, 8:29 AM
This weekend will be a litmus test of the Anti-Drumbeat ( 2 Major events including one well known figure either being victim or shooter and another one that will fit the "Right Wing nutjob" mold ) only 28 more "Events' until August AWB vote in House & Senate ...

paintballergb
04-29-2009, 8:35 AM
Just think about. This A-hole is 79 years old and changing his parties? How can anyone put any weight behind this guys views when he can switch him just to win an election. He is on deaths doorstep anyways.

lioneaglegriffin
04-29-2009, 9:14 AM
This weekend will be a litmus test of the Anti-Drumbeat ( 2 Major events including one well known figure either being victim or shooter and another one that will fit the "Right Wing nutjob" mold ) only 28 more "Events' until August AWB vote in House & Senate ...

wher'd you buy that crystal ball i want one.

Gator Monroe
04-29-2009, 9:22 AM
wher'd you buy that crystal ball i want one.

This is a trend , it's obvious after the last 14 shootings of late ...

cousinkix1953
04-29-2009, 5:10 PM
Specter voted for Clinton's AWB in 1994. He'll do it again as a Democrat wanting to please his new master...

lioneaglegriffin
04-29-2009, 6:59 PM
This is a trend , it's obvious after the last 14 shootings of late ...

a trend? so how do you correlate a trend to when a AWB will be reinstated in August? just wondering where you get your month? more anti gun laws at the tail end of Summer?

Gator Monroe
04-29-2009, 7:03 PM
a trend? so how do you correlate a trend to when a AWB will be reinstated in August? just wondering where you get your month? more anti gun laws at the tail end of Summer?

Did not say "New Laws" just said Anti-Drumbeat from media(due to 28 more high profile shootings) will cause a Bonus type frenzy and Vote in House & Senate by August "End of Summer"

dustoff31
04-29-2009, 7:32 PM
He seems to be fairly solid pro 2A since at least '98:

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Arlen_Specter_Gun_Control.htm

As long as he votes my way on 2A, I really don't care what party he's in.


That chick from New York had a pretty good pro-gun record too. Took them what?, six weeks to flip her.

Specter isn't going to get democrats to vote for him if he doesn't toe the party line. If they have any brains they will be as wary as the GOP became of him.

Tillers_Rule
04-29-2009, 7:48 PM
No, we won't be able to keep our guns. Everyone run out and buy 10,000 rounds of each caliber of ammo and a year's supply of food.

Hans Gruber
04-29-2009, 7:55 PM
That chick from New York had a pretty good pro-gun record too. Took them what?, six weeks to flip her.

Specter isn't going to get democrats to vote for him if he doesn't toe the party line. If they have any brains they will be as wary as the GOP became of him.

Arlen isn't exactly the new kid on the block that needs to pay alms for a gift senate seat unlike whats-her-face.

He's actually got a 60+ percent approval rate from PA democrats so he's probably pretty safe.

lioneaglegriffin
04-29-2009, 10:13 PM
That chick from New York had a pretty good pro-gun record too. Took them what?, six weeks to flip her.

Specter isn't going to get democrats to vote for him if he doesn't toe the party line. If they have any brains they will be as wary as the GOP became of him.

yea she did flip like a pancake at IHOP.

Publius
04-30-2009, 10:24 AM
No, we won't be able to keep our guns. Everyone run out and buy 10,000 rounds of each caliber of ammo and a year's supply of food.

Alright, which ammo company do YOU work for??;)

cousinkix1953
04-30-2009, 7:08 PM
That chick from New York had a pretty good pro-gun record too. Took them what?, six weeks to flip her.

Specter isn't going to get democrats to vote for him if he doesn't toe the party line. If they have any brains they will be as wary as the GOP became of him.
All I heard for more than a week was that Kristen Gillenbrandt was the NRA's whore in Congress. he so-called brain dead conservative FOX News Channel was no better than it's established anti-gun competitors. Lou Dobbs was about the only one who didn't get hysterical about it.

She sold out because she craves power more than believing in something. Sad to say that the gun rights candidates are a bunch of wimps, when compared to the abortion activists on both sides. The latter group rarely flips sides just to get elected...

cassius
05-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Doesn't matter in the least. I'll be keeping mine regardless.

hawk81
05-01-2009, 3:37 AM
I have no intentions of giving my guns up. It will be a big gun fight and there will be many bodies lying dead, if they try to confiscate my firearms.

Sinixstar
05-01-2009, 3:48 AM
Doesn't the senate majority rest on Al Franken??? God help us all...

I'm a democrat, and you took the words right out of my mouth.

We'd love to have 60 votes, but realistically have to really think about whether we'd rather have 60 with Franken, or 59 with out. It really is a tough call.

Sinixstar
05-01-2009, 3:52 AM
This weekend will be a litmus test of the Anti-Drumbeat ( 2 Major events including one well known figure either being victim or shooter and another one that will fit the "Right Wing nutjob" mold ) only 28 more "Events' until August AWB vote in House & Senate ...

Won't happen.
Reid's from NV, and is up for Reelection in 2010. You think he'd let an AWB get on the table right now? Tarred and feathered doesn't even begin to describe what we'd do to him. As it is, many of us in the NV party are tired of his crap anyways. He's already on thin ice as it is.
Pelosi won't let it through in the house cause that would put Reid in a bad position. She'd be lost without her pet in the senate.

Sinixstar
05-01-2009, 3:55 AM
That chick from New York had a pretty good pro-gun record too. Took them what?, six weeks to flip her.

Specter isn't going to get democrats to vote for him if he doesn't toe the party line. If they have any brains they will be as wary as the GOP became of him.

Nobody flipped her - she just got scared of her own shadow when McCarthy jumped on her back. Nobody else really cared one way or the other. McCarthy threatened to challenge her for her seat because of the gun issue - and she smoothed it over.
Personally - I would LOVE to see McCarthy run for the NY Senate Seat. She would get her *** handed to her worse then you can imagine.

The best thing she could have done (i can't even remember her name right now) is tell McCarthy to eat it - and if she has a problem with it, she can address it in the primary.
At that point, McCarthy would be out of a job.

Sinixstar
05-01-2009, 4:01 AM
Specter voted for Clinton's AWB in 1994. He'll do it again as a Democrat wanting to please his new master...

So did 93 other members of the senate. Can't really single him out as being soft. The whole damn senate voted for that bill.

Final vote was 94:4 in the senate. House vote was a voice vote - and not recorded by name.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-3355

BillCA
05-01-2009, 11:54 AM
All I heard for more than a week was that Kristen Gillenbrandt was the NRA's whore in Congress. he so-called brain dead conservative FOX News Channel was no better than it's established anti-gun competitors. Lou Dobbs was about the only one who didn't get hysterical about it.

She sold out because she craves power more than believing in something. Sad to say that the gun rights candidates are a bunch of wimps, when compared to the abortion activists on both sides. The latter group rarely flips sides just to get elected...

I think saying she sold out because she craves power more than her beliefs may be somewhat unfair. There's no doubt in my mind that she received a series of "messages" from the D-party leaders that for her to get anything done for her district she'd better tow the line.

When you have the governor of your state tell you that if you persist on going against the party line you'll get no support from state Dems; Then you get a senior party member telling you that seats on certain influential committees are available only to those who "support" the party or that DNC funding for election campaigns is based on your support for "key issues"... you get the message pretty fast. Sometimes it's very direct - Your support of "key issues" will determine if you ever get any of your sponsored bills out of committee.

Sure, you can stand up for what you believe in... in the unemployment line after being termed "ineffective". Or you can stay in the game and try to work inside the system.

Asphodel
05-01-2009, 12:10 PM
A thought, just from curiosity......

I noticed a couple of references to 'abortion activists'........so, I'm curious.....how many of the people putting in comments here are women who have either been.....or narrowly escaped being.......rape or 'date-rape' victims?

Since you are here, you, presumably, see through the 'unilateral disarmament' propaganda......how about trying to see through the 'compulsory child-bearing' propaganda, as well?

cheers

Carla

Publius
05-01-2009, 3:07 PM
I noticed a couple of references to 'abortion activists'........so, I'm curious.....how many of the people putting in comments here are women who have either been.....or narrowly escaped being.......rape or 'date-rape' victims?

The reference was a neutral one to "abortion activists on both sides," referring only to both sides' level of dedication, not the merits of their positions or arguments. So let's not start a debate on THAT issue here. :)

DDT
05-01-2009, 3:23 PM
A thought, just from curiosity......

I noticed a couple of references to 'abortion activists'........so, I'm curious.....how many of the people putting in comments here are women who have either been.....or narrowly escaped being.......rape or 'date-rape' victims?

Since you are here, you, presumably, see through the 'unilateral disarmament' propaganda......how about trying to see through the 'compulsory child-bearing' propaganda, as well?

cheers

Carla


Hmmm.... while we may or may not agree on the issue of abortion in general the argument that "only people who can have an abortion can have an opinion" is quite tired and played out. Ones gender or ability to reproduce is in no way indicative of their intellectual capacity.

Kid Stanislaus
05-01-2009, 6:29 PM
......... conceded bluntly that his chances of winning a Pennsylvania Republican primary next year were bleak in a party grown increasingly conservative.

There's the silver lining on the cloud.

cassius
05-02-2009, 1:50 AM
A thought, just from curiosity......

I noticed a couple of references to 'abortion activists'........so, I'm curious.....how many of the people putting in comments here are women who have either been.....or narrowly escaped being.......rape or 'date-rape' victims?

Since you are here, you, presumably, see through the 'unilateral disarmament' propaganda......how about trying to see through the 'compulsory child-bearing' propaganda, as well?

cheers

Carla
uh-huh, "just from curiosity". Your insertion of rape criteria to present your pet argument is the lamest sort of strawman fallacy. Go peddle your abortion politics somewhere else. This topic isn't about abortion. Unless we're talking about retroactive abortions of tyrannical politicians.

workinwifdakids
05-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Some are upset because Sen. Specter decided to change from being a Democrat to calling himself a Democrat. Guys, it's no great loss.

Oh, and when can they have my guns? Well,... you know.

thegratenate
05-02-2009, 11:45 AM
I have no problem giving up my guns, after all of my ammo is expended and, or they are pried from my cold dead hands.

I do also wonder, how many of the guns in America today could be tracked down?
Many of the people that I know claim to have legally owned, non registered firearms, that were either bought FTF when and where legal, or inherited, when and where legal, with no paper trail. It makes me wonder if there is any way short of straight door to door searches to even contemplate confiscation. I can't imagine that going over to well any time soon.

the_quark
05-02-2009, 2:11 PM
I have no problem giving up my guns, after all of my ammo is expended and, or they are pried from my cold dead hands.

I'd just like to state for the record that I do have a problem giving up in this fashion.

It's just the only way it's going to happen.

:cool:

TQ

thegratenate
05-02-2009, 3:17 PM
You got me on that one, I just assumed that preferring a legal victory over a bloody battle was a given.

Of course I would rather not have to use arms against my own countrymen, but there is a line that I will not retreat across period.

Asphodel
05-02-2009, 4:28 PM
DDT and cassius,

I just wondered whether you might notice any parallel between comments about 'abortion activists' here, with the passionate advocacy of 'gun control laws' by some number of individuals (aka 'sheeple') who actually know nothing whatever about self-defence or about guns.

cheers

Carla

dustoff31
05-02-2009, 5:53 PM
It makes me wonder if there is any way short of straight door to door searches to even contemplate confiscation.


If it ever should come to confiscation, door to door searches would have to be included as part of the program. A "voluntary" confiscation wouldn't make any sense would it? Although it seems to have worked out fairly well in some other countries.


I can't imagine that going over to well any time soon.

Oh, I don't know. Aside from the usual rethoric, the only person to really object to the confiscation in New Orleans was an little old lady, and we saw what happened to her.

cactustactical
05-02-2009, 6:16 PM
What?!?!

I did not read all of the pages but when I read "door to door searches" and people wondering what to do if that came to be I about bit my tounge off...

People, if it ever comes to door to door searches then that is the time to "lock and load" and stand arm and arm to protect your liberty and your freedoms.

In my opinion violence is always the LAST resort period. Never cast the first stone unless you are acting to protect the life of another.... With that said if door to door searches started to take place then IMO America will be in grave danger of becoming extinct and I took a oath to protect her and her Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. As a former Marine I will stand by that oath to my grave... I am also very certain my brothers in arms both civillian and military currently serving in active duty who have also taken the same oath will stand side by side with me to protect America.

Right wing extremist my BUTT!

Patriotic American... You Bet!!


www.SecondAmendmentTaskForce.com

.

lioneaglegriffin
05-02-2009, 6:24 PM
what is case agaisnt a person for shooting a cop who enters a home without a warrant?

cactustactical
05-02-2009, 9:02 PM
what is case agaisnt a person for shooting a cop who enters a home without a warrant?

I think cops would be on our side in this... Cops are hard working Americans with families and children. They do not want their kids growing up in a Country without freedoms. They want their kids growing up in America where they have every freedom guaranteed to them by the Constitution.

If it ever comes to the time for self defense in the protection of our Constitution then we are in for an awakening like no other in history.

This would be the saddest day in our history and I hope it never comes to pass.


www.SecondAmendmentTaskForce.com


.

hawk81
05-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Fellow gun owners, the people in this country are no different than the people in Germany prior to world war 2. If gun confiscation occurrs most people will do as they are told, and police will follow the orders they are given. There will only be a few people that will put up a fight. Hell, we can't even get half of the population to vote. This country is in a world of trouble. We have let things get so far out of control, I am afraid we can not ever put this country back to being free again.

BigBamBoo
05-02-2009, 10:31 PM
.............

steelrain1
05-02-2009, 10:50 PM
Try to take my guns......you will have to pry them from my lifeless hands

hawk81
05-03-2009, 8:38 AM
What you said is exactly right. However, I do believe in the old saying "live free or die". I have no family or kids. I will be one of the few that does make a stand, however it probably won't accomplish anything, except getting me killed. But going out in a full on fire fight is a hell of a good way to die, not to mention I will get to take several un-American **** suckers with me.




sigh....the tuff guy stance is a nice sentiment...but would really do nothing in the long run.

Here is my opinion on how it would go down....again...just MY opinion:

There would be no door to door search....impossible due to the raw man power and resources it would entail.

"They" will just continue to whittle away at the ammo, more restrictive handgun and simi-auto laws,etc. Then at some point after some major shooting...they will say starting on such and such a date ALL firearms must be turned in...just like in England and Down Under.
They would make it mandatory prison sentence if caught with guns or ammo after said date.

Those who do not turn in their guns would be in danger of discovery every day...your kids talking about how dad has a gun hidden,etc. Teacher over hears and turns it over to the cops.
Neighbors now your a gun guy and turn you in,etc.,etc. ANY contact with the law would bring about a search. And your name would be on record already having guns registered to you so a fast data search by any contact with LE would bring about a search.

Slowly most of the guns would be rounded up along with funding new prisons and enriching the legal system for those who are turned into criminals by hanging on to their guns.

After this current generation of gun owners...that would be it...your kids would give up any arms found when you die,etc.

Thinking that the military and cops would not take part in this is just naive thinking....as with most things in this country it comes down to money...and they are not going to lose their jobs over YOU. Most cops (and I have a few friends and buddies who are LEO) think that there are two kind of people in the world...cops and the rest of us.

Do you remember the DARE program? Where they taught our kids to turn in anyone...including mom and dad...that they knew were doing drugs? Well there would be a new program teaching them to turn in anyone they knew about who may have a gun.

And back to the tuff guy attitude...are you really going to get your family killed or locked up for your actions? Remember a gent who made a stand in ID a few years back? All he did was get his wife,dog,etc., killed and then went to prison....he had the same stance. Ended very badly.

I do not know what the answer is or how we can make it better...I think it is too little to late at this point. So enjoy it while you can I guess.

Part of the problem is their is very little organization and unity with gun owners of this country...where as the anti's are VERY well organized and have the money and power to make it happen.
Most gun owners are very independent...and the anti's know this and use it to their advantage.

Good luck to us,Stan

Asphodel
05-03-2009, 2:31 PM
Stan has it right, at least as a generality......the lesson we should be learning, from the governmental actions taken against the German people back in the '30's, and the British and Australian peoples more recently, stands before us.

How are we to understand this lesson, and what shall we do?

I don't know for any certainty, but I could try to offer a couple of observations, based on having watched the 'gun control' creeps for quite a few years now.

Probably the most dramatically obvious 'sucker trap' is 'packaging', in which political attitudes are 'packaged' by propagandists into so-called 'conservative' beliefs (which aren't really conservative), and 'liberal' (which aren't liberal, by any rational definition of the word)

It would take far longer than we've space for here, to comment on the efficiency with which political propagandists here have been neatly 'herding' Americans into the 'conservative' and 'liberal' demographics, over the last forty-odd years time.

Just for one minor example, lets have a look at a phrase you've all heard, 'Politically Correct'. How many of you younger people know where and when that phrase was first commonly used here?

Well, I saw/heard it happen, in the mid-'60's......I was the 'little mouse in the corner' so to speak.

During the Vietnam war, one segment of the anti-war protest was infiltrated and supported by the Chicom government (and/or by agents-provocateurs working for some tenacle of our own government, pretending to be Chicom agents, as 'dissent control')

I don't know how many of you have ever gotten around to actually reading 'Chairman Mao's little red book'.....fact is, it was so horribly poorly translated that I never finished it myself, but I did get a picture of the basic ideology, and it 'made my head hurt'.

Some of the Chicom-influenced war protest organisers handed out leaflets and made statements which were overtly fraudulent, concerning this or that aspect of our government's operation of the war in Vietnam. Some of these were so obviously wrong that they were 'a joke'........but the 'leaders' of some of the anti-war protest groups would reply that 'that may not be factual, but it is Politically Correct, and must not be questioned'.

In short, 'Politically Correct' is a Marxist-Leninist phrase adopted by Chicom-influenced Americans. Its a euphemism for 'a fraud for propaganda purposes'.

Now, ask yourself........how many people who later held elective office in California might have gotten their start in politics by participating in the Vietnam war protest activities?

Is it likely that they might have been influenced by reading Mao's book, in which he described, at great length, the techniques for securing political power? As you should know by now, one of the more important aspects of Marxist-Leninist doctrine, and its Maoist variant, is.......you guessed it......'gun control'.

That, of course, is just one of many influences which have gone into the current 'packaging' of 'conservative' v. 'liberal' ideologies.

How many more of these structures of influence can you name, and how do you perceive them to be operating?

cheers

Carla

bodger
05-03-2009, 3:11 PM
What you said is exactly right. However, I do believe in the old saying "live free or die". I have no family or kids. I will be one of the few that does make a stand, however it probably won't accomplish anything, except getting me killed. But going out in a full on fire fight is a hell of a good way to die, not to mention I will get to take several un-American **** suckers with me.

I agree. I don't want to see or live in an America where someone comes to my door to get my guns. I'd rather die.

When I joined the military, I took an oath that essentially stated that I would give my life to protect the freedom of this country.
I'm not in uniform anymore, but for me, the oath is still valid.

Because I am not a criminal, I have and will continue to reluctantly comply with every silly gun law that comes along. EXCEPT one that requires me to relenquish all firearms.
Hopefully, it won't come to that.

Canute
05-03-2009, 3:15 PM
Actually, I see things changing for the positive. Heller and Nordyke plus the facts are going to start sinking in to the general populace. Then the many new gun owners in the past year.
I think gun owners were blind sided by organized gun controllers and the pro-second side is getting more organized.

cassius
05-04-2009, 12:35 AM
'Inevitability' is for losers. The tide is turning in a great many ways, not least of all that the Obama-ites are running the country into the ground / into socialism at breakneck speed. They know their time to get things done is short. And the faster they go the more they outrage the general population. The more social contracts they obviate, the more people feel less constrained to Obey.

DDT
05-04-2009, 1:05 AM
'Inevitability' is for losers. The tide is turning in a great many ways, not least of all that the Obama-ites are running the country into the ground / into socialism at breakneck speed. They know their time to get things done is short. And the faster they go the more they outrage the general population. The more social contracts they obviate, the more people feel less constrained to Obey.

It may seem that way but remember, the last great leftist who spent the vast majority of his time thumbing his nose at the constitution despite getting large swaths of his policies kicked by SCOTUS was FDR and "the people" elected him 4 times. Never underestimate the ability of Americans to vote themselves ever larger pieces of an ever shrinking pie.

DocSkinner
05-04-2009, 1:31 AM
I think saying she sold out because she craves power more than her beliefs may be somewhat unfair. There's no doubt in my mind that she received a series of "messages" from the D-party leaders that for her to get anything done for her district she'd better tow the line.

When you have the governor of your state tell you that if you persist on going against the party line you'll get no support from state Dems; Then you get a senior party member telling you that seats on certain influential committees are available only to those who "support" the party or that DNC funding for election campaigns is based on your support for "key issues"... you get the message pretty fast. Sometimes it's very direct - Your support of "key issues" will determine if you ever get any of your sponsored bills out of committee.

Sure, you can stand up for what you believe in... in the unemployment line after being termed "ineffective". Or you can stay in the game and try to work inside the system.




exactly why we need more than 2 parties! Or more independents that have to get favors as swing votes.

DocSkinner
05-04-2009, 1:32 AM
A thought, just from curiosity......

I noticed a couple of references to 'abortion activists'........so, I'm curious.....how many of the people putting in comments here are women who have either been.....or narrowly escaped being.......rape or 'date-rape' victims?

Since you are here, you, presumably, see through the 'unilateral disarmament' propaganda......how about trying to see through the 'compulsory child-bearing' propaganda, as well?

cheers

Carla


+1 - (for support - not that I am a woman...)

DocSkinner
05-04-2009, 1:35 AM
What?!?!

I did not read all of the pages but when I read "door to door searches" and people wondering what to do if that came to be I about bit my tounge off...

People, if it ever comes to door to door searches then that is the time to "lock and load" and stand arm and arm to protect your liberty and your freedoms.

In my opinion violence is always the LAST resort period. Never cast the first stone unless you are acting to protect the life of another.... With that said if door to door searches started to take place then IMO America will be in grave danger of becoming extinct and I took a oath to protect her and her Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. As a former Marine I will stand by that oath to my grave... I am also very certain my brothers in arms both civillian and military currently serving in active duty who have also taken the same oath will stand side by side with me to protect America.

Right wing extremist my BUTT!

Patriotic American... You Bet!!


www.SecondAmendmentTaskForce.com

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would be the second coming of the minute men, wouldn't it?

DocSkinner
05-04-2009, 1:40 AM
I think cops would be on our side in this... Cops are hard working Americans with families and children. They do not want their kids growing up in a Country without freedoms. They want their kids growing up in America where they have every freedom guaranteed to them by the Constitution.

If it ever comes to the time for self defense in the protection of our Constitution then we are in for an awakening like no other in history.

This would be the saddest day in our history and I hope it never comes to pass.


www.SecondAmendmentTaskForce.com


.


Would agree - Always have that comment thrown in - how much could a bunch of yocals with hunting rifles do against the police and military?

and it is amazing how many dumbfounded looks you get when you reply "what makes you think the police and military are going to be on your side?" Usually a stuttered "its their job!"

I really think the hard core anti's are clueless how many of the military and police would (speaking of swapping sides) swap sides and stand with us civilians.

DocSkinner
05-04-2009, 2:04 AM
It may seem that way but remember, the last great leftist who spent the vast majority of his time thumbing his nose at the constitution despite getting large swaths of his policies kicked by SCOTUS was FDR and "the people" elected him 4 times. Never underestimate the ability of Americans to vote themselves ever larger pieces of an ever shrinking pie.

Yes, but I think one thing that will help us is the economy tanking, and crime rising. I have seen a few posts now about people talking about helping a neighbor buy/pick a gun. When everything was fat and happy, they could be more lackadaisical. However now many in the middle are starting say "hey - maybe I *DO* need to be able to protect myself", particularly when you see all the PD/SO lay offs in the news, and also have the CoCoCo DA say he is going to stop prosecuting any 'minor' crimes. Just a threat/bluff? most likely - but it was big news around here, and got people thinking. And I do still hear people talk about Katrina and its aftermath on safety, and how people were getting disarmed during a crisis.


People have incredible short memory. But People also have a mean side and a sense of self preservation that kicks in when needed. LA riots was small flare in that sense - gun stores were overwhelmed, and people POed like you wouldn't believe that they now had to WAIT to now get a gun to protect themselves - that law was just supposed to apply to THEM. I think this is what Pelosi and Obama see when they say GC/AWB isn't politically expedient right now. They need to calm that self preservation instinct WAY down and get that "safe" feeling back, a lull people back to sleep before doing it.

In many ways, these lean times are our friend in this fight.

and BigBamBoo - regretfully have to agree with you - the frog in the pan of water thing. I think however our times are making people a little more heat sensitive.

Sinixstar
05-04-2009, 2:15 AM
Yes, but I think one thing that will help us is the economy tanking, and crime rising. I have seen a few posts now about people talking about helping a neighbor buy/pick a gun. When everything was fat and happy, they could be more lackadaisical. However now many in the middle are starting say "hey - maybe I *DO* need to be able to protect myself", particularly when you see all the PD/SO lay offs in the news, and also have the CoCoCo DA say he is going to stop prosecuting any 'minor' crimes. Just a threat/bluff? most likely - but it was big news around here, and got people thinking. And I do still hear people talk about Katrina and its aftermath on safety, and how people were getting disarmed during a crisis.


People have incredible short memory. But People also have a mean side and a sense of self preservation that kicks in when needed. LA riots was small flare in that sense - gun stores were overwhelmed, and people POed like you wouldn't believe that they now had to WAIT to now get a gun to protect themselves - that law was just supposed to apply to THEM. I think this is what Pelosi and Obama see when they say GC/AWB isn't politically expedient right now. They need to calm that self preservation instinct WAY down and get that "safe" feeling back, a lull people back to sleep before doing it.

In many ways, these lean times are our friend in this fight.

and BigBamBoo - regretfully have to agree with you - the frog in the pan of water thing. I think however our times are making people a little more heat sensitive.

The one thing that will help actually, was GWB.
The hardcore lefties feel that he utterly wiped his rear end with the constitution. You want to make an argument to appeal to even the hardcore leftists- bring that up.

"Before we go about stepping on the constitution any more - I think it's time we restore the rights that have been trampled over the last 8 years, get our country back on the right track, get our economy back on the right track - and then maybe let's have a conversation about what's going on."

That will get even the people I think are crazy socialists pretty fired up and ready to support protecting the second amendment. If it doesn't - ask them what they would have done if GWB declared martial law and didn't allow elections to take place. Most of them will answer "we would have started a revolution". Good- now ask them with what if all the guns are banned.