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View Full Version : Can I use a 27round magazine in my OLL .22 conversion?


Tier One Arms
04-28-2009, 1:43 PM
I just bought a .22 conversion for my OLL AR, Can I use a 27 round magazine I've had sitting around with it?

BONECUTTER
04-28-2009, 1:48 PM
Yes, rimfire does not fall under AW laws.

Quiet
04-28-2009, 7:53 PM
Yes, rimfire does not fall under AW laws.

Rimfire pistols are applicable to handgun AW laws.

mydogsmonkey
04-28-2009, 7:54 PM
I just bought a .22 conversion for my OLL AR, Can I use a 27 round magazine I've had sitting around with it?

wow not too quick there, only if you've had that magazine before the hi cap ban
the 10 round limit applies to rimfires as well as centerfires

Tier One Arms
04-28-2009, 8:25 PM
When was there a ban on high caps?

Quiet
04-28-2009, 8:29 PM
When was there a ban on high caps?

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

5150Marcelo
04-28-2009, 8:33 PM
When was BDM born?

Josh3239
04-28-2009, 8:34 PM
Oh boy here we go again with the "only pre-bans are legal" crowd versus the "possession is not illegal" crowd :beatdeadhorse5:

PolishMike
04-28-2009, 8:40 PM
With all the boating accidents happening all the time, some lucky scuba divers are bound to find some discarded high caps :)

Jpach
04-28-2009, 8:56 PM
POSESSION IS NOT ILLEGAL. You can use whatever you want. There was only a ban on importing, manufacturing, offering for sale, etc. hi-cap mags. You are not doing anything wrong by posessing it. However if you obtained it illegally and still have it then it could be viewed as continuing the crime. As for it actually sticking, ehh. Make sure that if you have the luck to find hi-caps while searching for pots of gold or whatever, you find one that was actually in existence before the ban. Hopefully that is your case

evan69
04-28-2009, 9:10 PM
Yea you can USE it, but you can't BUY it. Don't you just hate how us law abiders are running into criminalizing legislation, when the criminals don't have to worry about the laws? Just isn't fair.

colossians323
04-29-2009, 3:55 AM
Oh boy here we go again with the "only pre-bans are legal" crowd versus the "possession is not illegal" crowd



Not to mention the third party, the "oh boy, here we go again" crowd:rolleyes:

Bruce
04-29-2009, 6:14 AM
Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Does that apply to air guns as well? Sportsmansguide restricts the sale of a PPK/S copy in .177 to California that has 15 pellet capacity.

Silencer
04-29-2009, 7:03 AM
Yes, rimfire does not fall under AW laws.

An ammo company needs to manufacture a .223 rimfire cartridge! :)

Publius
04-29-2009, 8:18 AM
An ammo company needs to manufacture a .223 rimfire cartridge! :)

Seriously, I wonder why the rimfire exception to the CA AWB has not generated more interest in more powerful rimfire cartridges in than the .22LR. Is it possible to find AR-15 uppers in .22 WMR or .17 HMR? I hear the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum has gone into production again. That would deliver almost three times the energy of a .22LR.

BONECUTTER
04-29-2009, 8:20 AM
An ammo company needs to manufacture a .223 rimfire cartridge! :)

There has been talk about it on here before.....I think the experts weighed in that it would be no stable or something.

Jicko
04-29-2009, 8:23 AM
When was BDM born?

2004

Gator Monroe
04-29-2009, 8:33 AM
I think the only Viable option for AR rimfire Highcaps would be M231 or Ciener or Ciener/Attichison or Attichison (Early Military rimfire adapter kits were mostly 10 round inserts to fit USGI Aluminium 20 rounders or USGI 30 rounders) but Ciener & Attichison banana highcaps date back to late 70's at least ... WASR 22/AKT-98/RPK-22's with East German Mpi rimfireTrainer highcaps modded to work would be acceptable due to their age and availability prior to ban ... But BDM mags are verbotten

BONECUTTER
04-29-2009, 8:39 AM
But BDM mags are verbotten

I'm going to have to double check but I think ciener followers and springs worked in BDM's. That would make it just as easy to rebuild them as doing the USGI to PMAG thing. Doesn't matter if BDM's came after 2000.

Army
04-29-2009, 11:34 AM
If the conversion you have was on the market BEFORE the high-cap ban, then using that 27 rounder is OK. If your device was first marketed AFTER the ban but the magazine works in it...it could be dicey legal-wise

Jicko
04-29-2009, 11:45 AM
If the conversion you have was on the market BEFORE the high-cap ban, then using that 27 rounder is OK. If your device was first marketed AFTER the ban but the magazine works in it...it could be dicey legal-wise

Negative.

Just like many lower receiver brands does not exist before the ban... yet you can still use pre-ban USGI mags...

Ciener mags work with CMMG and Spike's conversion..

BONECUTTER
04-29-2009, 11:51 AM
If the conversion you have was on the market BEFORE the high-cap ban, then using that 27 rounder is OK. If your device was first marketed AFTER the ban but the magazine works in it...it could be dicey legal-wise

Im not seeing the your logic....Spikes, Tactical Solutions, CMMG, all can use ciener mags. If I have ciener mags there is nothing saying I can't use them in my spikes and nothing saying I can't rebuild them into BDM's. (granted if some parts are interchangable)

Thats like saying if someone builds a featureless SCAR they can't use pre-ban USGI's. They will still work in the firearm they are originally designed for.

Gator Monroe
04-29-2009, 11:55 AM
Are you guys saying I could fashon a BDM mag (Rebuild it with various parts) to work in my WASR 22 AND BE LEGAL ?

BONECUTTER
04-29-2009, 12:00 PM
Are you guys saying I could fashon a BDM mag (Rebuild it with various parts) to work in my WASR 22 AND BE LEGAL ?

Nope...unless you can still make it work in the firearm the original mag was intended for.

Nodda Duma
04-29-2009, 12:04 PM
Interesting that this discussion comes up.

I took one of the local prosecuting attorneys out to the range this past weekend. Good person to ask opinion on legals of firearms (although I specifically didn't want to talk law, him and one of my buddies got to discussing the in's and out's of ARs). He himself said high cap mags are NOT illegal to possess. Also said that .22 rimfire was exempt from high cap mag ban (which I don't think is correct, but who am I to argue). He had the penal code loaded on his i-phone (kind of cool), and was scrolling through it.

22 rimfire came up because my friend had brought his .22 rimfire AR build down to the range (as well as his 6.5 Grendel build).

He didn't blink at the bullet button config on my buddy's AR's either. Kind of nice to get that kind of affirmation from one of the attorney's who would be prosecuting local firearms cases.

-Jason

Jpach
04-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Sir, could you please provide which penal code prohibits BUYing hi-caps? I just cant seem to find it...

Yea you can USE it, but you can't BUY it. Don't you just hate how us law abiders are running into criminalizing legislation, when the criminals don't have to worry about the laws? Just isn't fair.

mydogsmonkey
04-29-2009, 12:54 PM
woops forgot that its not illegeal to possess, i thought he was gonna try and buy one

Publius
04-29-2009, 1:04 PM
Sir, could you please provide which penal code prohibits BUYing hi-caps? I just cant seem to find it...

Right. Buying per se is not illegal, though importing in the course of buying from another state is, and if you were buying some kind of custom hi-cap it could be construed as "causing" a hi-cap to be manufactured. Under ordinary circumstances, if you buy a hi-cap it's the poor guy selling it to you who's at risk. Certainly not a neighborly thing to do, even if your own butt isn't on the line.

Army
04-29-2009, 1:51 PM
Which is why I said "dicey". I use Black Dog magazines in my Spikes. Black Dog's did not exist before the ban, so if I were to have one that fit all 27 rounds, I could not argue that I owned it before the ban in California.

CHS
04-29-2009, 1:56 PM
I just bought a .22 conversion for my OLL AR, Can I use a 27 round magazine I've had sitting around with it?

What in the law leads you to believe that you CAN'T use the mag?

I run detachable 27rd mags in my dedicated .22 AR all the time.

Jicko
04-29-2009, 1:58 PM
Which is why I said "dicey". I use Black Dog magazines in my Spikes. Black Dog's did not exist before the ban, so if I were to have one that fit all 27 rounds, I could not argue that I owned it before the ban in California.

I can... since I did... I can tell any LE how too... with my attorney there tho...

Nothing "dicey" or "sketchy"... just tell the truth, as to how you get there...

Silencer
04-29-2009, 8:39 PM
Seriously, I wonder why the rimfire exception to the CA AWB has not generated more interest in more powerful rimfire cartridges in than the .22LR. Is it possible to find AR-15 uppers in .22 WMR or .17 HMR? I hear the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum has gone into production again. That would deliver almost three times the energy of a .22LR.

I never knew about the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum existed. Sounds like a great caliber! Read for yourself!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_mm_Remington_Rimfire_Magnum

I bet if we express enough interest, I'm sure somebody would make an upper in 5mmRRM! Sounds like a great combo!

railroader
04-29-2009, 9:59 PM
Rebuilding a ceiner preban 30 round mag with a BDM mag body would not being any different than rebuilding an old ar mag with a currently manufactured ar mag body. I don't really see what the difference is. I talked to Kevin at Mad Dog the other day and he said the follower and spring were interchangeable with ceiner mags. I didn't ask about the other parts. Mark

CHS
04-29-2009, 10:01 PM
Rebuilding a ceiner preban 30 round mag with a MDM mag body would not being any different than rebuilding an old ar mag with a currently manufactured ar mag body. I don't really see what the difference is. I talked to Kevin at Mad Dog the other day and he said the follower and spring were interchangeable with ceiner mags. I didn't ask about the other parts. Mark

I've rebuilt quite a few ciener mags into BDM mags. The BDM mags are awesome. I rock the 15's and 27's all the time.

Also, check out the mag loader from Tactical Solutions.

Publius
04-30-2009, 9:25 AM
I bet if we express enough interest, I'm sure somebody would make an upper in 5mmRRM! Sounds like a great combo!

I had never heard of it before yesterday either, but it sounds like a winner. I think an AR-15 upper for that cartridge would be awesome.

ohsmily
04-30-2009, 9:51 AM
Also said that .22 rimfire was exempt from high cap mag ban (which I don't think is correct, but who am I to argue).

-Jason

He is wrong. there is no distinction in 12020 between rimfire and centerfire caliber large capacity feeding devices.