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magic_eraser
04-28-2009, 9:16 AM
I've read a lot of posts about people using their FFL license to build their private collection. What exactly does this mean? Can a person (living in california) with an FFL license buy firearms that are not on the DOJ approved list?

I've searched the ATF site for an answer, but no luck. Figured I'd ask you experts directly. :thumbsup:

Thanks for any info!

ke6guj
04-28-2009, 9:25 AM
You can't get a "normal" FFL merely to improve a private collection. It is a business FFL and must be used for business purposes.

there is a collector FFL available, the C&R FFL, for an individual to improve a collection of "curio and relics". C&Rs are firearms that are 50+ years old, or specifically listed in a list of curio firearms. A C&R FFL can't be used as a business FFL.

A person with a business FFL can obtain non-rostered handguns for business inventory.

magic_eraser
04-28-2009, 10:00 AM
ke6guj, thanks for the response. The business portion of the FFL I understand - from what I've read so far, ATF will inspect your proposed business location and make sure you have all the proper implements in place (i.e. safe, alarm system, etc).

I've been contemplating setting up an FFL business for quite some time now and I'm trying to get the facts on any fringe benefits that might tip the scales and really make me go for it.

So a person with a business FFL who obtains non-rostered firearms for business inventory, are they prohibited from using (taking the firearm to a range) or moving the firearm into their personal collection?

ke6guj
04-28-2009, 10:12 AM
So a person with a business FFL who obtains non-rostered firearms for business inventory, are they prohibited from using (taking the firearm to a range) or moving the firearm into their personal collection? I dunno. Probably need to ask an FFL about that :D

I would guess that playing with business inventory would be ok, but I doubt it would be acceptable to transfer stuff to your personal collection and out of the bound book. Unless you happen to be an LEO as well as an FFL. IIRC, there are some LEOs that have FFLs, and they can DROS non-rostered stuff to themselves.

TonyM
04-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Plainly speaking:

Yes, you will still need to DROS them to you to be your personal items. You still pay the state the DROS fee and run the DROS, but you won't have the 10 day wait. No, there is no FFL exemption on the DROS to get past the Roster.

garandguy10
04-28-2009, 10:56 AM
A 01FFL dealer in California can not take a non rostered handgun from his inventory and transfer or DROS it to himself for private ownership.

01FFL dealer MUST be in business to generate a profit from the sales of firearms. 01 FFL can not be a licensed dealer just to enhance his/hers firearms collection.

Dont believe me, contact the BATFE and the CA BOF for further information.

magic_eraser
04-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Great info, thanks for all the responses.

Here's the nagging million dollar question:

Can you "play" with your business inventory and take the firearms (non california rostered) to the range?

TonyM
04-28-2009, 11:36 AM
Great info, thanks for all the responses.

Here's the nagging million dollar question:

Can you "play" with your business inventory and take the firearms (non california rostered) to the range?

I wouldn't take the risk. Depending on how you read the law, you could be in possession of an unregistered handgun. It hasn't been DROS'd, and it's not new and sitting on the shelf in your store. Sure looks like you're trying to step around the law.

dachan
04-28-2009, 11:58 AM
As a FFL you are certainly allowed to test fire any firearm in your inventory, even remove it from the licensed location as long as it remains in your control. You are also allowed to take it out of your licensed premises for display for sale. You are also allowed to lease firearms in your inventory as long as it remains on the licensed premises (i.e., you have a range at your store) or the firearm remains in your control (i.e., you accompany the other party to an offsite range.)

magic_eraser
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
dachan:

That makes complete sense. As an FFL you should have the ability to test fire anything in your inventory.

Are you an FFL licensee? I've read that some cities require you to have a storefront as part of being an FFL licensee. I'm curious because I'm thinking about the online retailer route - which obviously doesn't require a physical storefront.

remington
04-28-2009, 12:52 PM
You need demostrate "for profit" to the ATF. You can transfer occassional firearms but if you have 100 transactions and 99 transfers to your PC I imagine they will yank your license.

FortCourageArmory
04-29-2009, 10:16 AM
A 01FFL dealer in California can not take a non rostered handgun from his inventory and transfer or DROS it to himself for private ownership.
Not entirely true. DOJ has said that I can DROS a non-roster handgun to myself as an "exception" if I do not intend to sell or otherwise transfer it. In other words, I need to keep it in my personal collection probably for at least a year before I even think about selling/transferring it.

yzernie
04-29-2009, 2:02 PM
Depending on how you read the law, you could be in possession of an unregistered handgun. It hasn't been DROS'd, and it's not new and sitting on the shelf in your store. Sure looks like you're trying to step around the law.
Any new gun I have in my inventory will not be 'registered'. So, if I took a new non-roster handgun (or any other new handgun or rifle) to the range for a test drive it would technically not be registered. I would however, make copies of all necessary paperwork and have it with me in the event I was contacted and needed to prove ownership or the authority to possess the item.