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View Full Version : Buying a gun in CA with a record?


Justin3
04-27-2009, 1:33 PM
A friend of mine wants to buy a handgun now but he has a prior record. He got caught for using drugs about a year ago. Does that not allow him to own a gun?
I checked around online but I could only find info on that subject if it was about violent crimes.

Any help would be much appreciated. I was supposed to go to the gun store with him this week but I wanted to check out some info so he doesn't go in there and get rejected. Especially since I go to that gun store a lot and I don't want the employees to associated me with that type of senario.

beerup949
04-27-2009, 1:36 PM
No as long as it's a misdemeanor and he's done his time / pay his fines or is not currently on probation.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 1:42 PM
That federal form though asks about drug use. Is he still using? does he plan on lying on the form and stating he's not a drug user?

Steyr_223
04-27-2009, 1:50 PM
http://newmedia.umaine.edu/images/Jon%20Ippolito/seiler_with_record-(mip@u.jpg

JDay
04-27-2009, 2:26 PM
Have him fill this out and mail it in with the fee, he will receive a letter back stating if he can own a firearm.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

CHS
04-27-2009, 3:05 PM
That federal form though asks about drug use. Is he still using? does he plan on lying on the form and stating he's not a drug user?

The federal form 4473 only asks about current drug use. The question is:

11.E "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Under "Notices, Instructions And Definitions" there is nothing about 11.E, so I would take that question at its face value.

If you are no longer using any drugs or addicted to alcohol or any other controlled substances, then the question does not apply and you can truthfully answer "no".

If the original charge was a misdemeanor for drug use, then he's almost certainly not a prohibited person and can still buy firearms.

nochance
04-27-2009, 3:32 PM
I can't find the source of this information, but I remember looking into this a while back and found reference to you are considered an active drug user for 1 year from the incident/conviction and for 5 years if there are two incidents/convictions within a year.

I can't remember if this was a Federal or DOJ source, but it definitely wasn't forum fodder. Though like all things on the internet, take it with a grain of salt. PEC as referenced above would give him the best definitive answer.

hawk1
04-27-2009, 3:44 PM
The federal form 4473 only asks about current drug use. The question is:

11.E "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Under "Notices, Instructions And Definitions" there is nothing about 11.E, so I would take that question at its face value.

If you are no longer using any drugs or addicted to alcohol or any other controlled substances, then the question does not apply and you can truthfully answer "no".

If the original charge was a misdemeanor for drug use, then he's almost certainly not a prohibited person and can still buy firearms.

Oh man, there's going to be a lot of unhappy dope smokers here at Calguns when they read this...http://smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Smoking/smoking-red-eyes-009.gif (http://smileyshut.com)

Justin3
04-27-2009, 4:55 PM
I'm pretty sure he isn't using anymore since he got his license taken away when he got caught last year and he just got it back in late last Dec. This is my personal opinion of it though.

Well, thanks again guys. I'm glad I'm on Calguns. A lot of my questions get answered here without any ridicule that other forums usually give for questions that isn't up to par with them., got to buy an awesome gun here too.

Thanks. I'm going to relay all this to my friend.

E Pluribus Unum
04-27-2009, 5:52 PM
I'm pretty sure he isn't using anymore since he got his license taken away when he got caught last year and he just got it back in late last Dec. This is my personal opinion of it though.

Well, thanks again guys. I'm glad I'm on Calguns. A lot of my questions get answered here without any ridicule that other forums usually give for questions that isn't up to par with them., got to buy an awesome gun here too.

Thanks. I'm going to relay all this to my friend.

You seem to know a lot about "your friend".


Tell "your friend" to put down the crack pipe for 5 years and THEN own a gun.


People who have been "on drugs" within the last year have a VERY high liklihood of relapse. While as a patriot I believe in "his" constitutional right to own a gun, as a realist I cannot advise you as his "friend" to suggest he purchase a gun.

Drug users who own guns usually only end up doing something stupid with a gun that makes ownership by responsible people like me more difficult.

Justin3
04-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Well he is pretty set on getting a gun. He has been pushing to go to the range with me. But now that you mention it like that, not so sure I want to be in a secluded place with him holding my gun.
I sent him that "test thing" to see if he is eligiable.

edwardm
04-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Does it strike anyone else that this question asks about narcotics, controlled substances, etc. but doesn't ask about alcohol? Someone on his 2nd bottle of Jim Beam is just as dangerous with a gun (maybe moreso) than some stoner on his second joint, and just as dangerous as someone tweaking or flying.

This isn't a suggestion that drug addicts be handed guns at first request, but just a connection to the War on (some)Drugs.

You seem to know a lot about "your friend".


Tell "your friend" to put down the crack pipe for 5 years and THEN own a gun.


People who have been "on drugs" within the last year have a VERY high liklihood of relapse. While as a patriot I believe in "his" constitutional right to own a gun, as a realist I cannot advise you as his "friend" to suggest he purchase a gun.

Drug users who own guns usually only end up doing something stupid with a gun that makes ownership by responsible people like me more difficult.

CHS
04-28-2009, 1:07 PM
Does it strike anyone else that this question asks about narcotics, controlled substances, etc. but doesn't ask about alcohol?

Yes it does:


11.E "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

DDT
04-28-2009, 1:09 PM
Does it strike anyone else that this question asks about narcotics, controlled substances, etc. but doesn't ask about alcohol? Someone on his 2nd bottle of Jim Beam is just as dangerous with a gun (maybe moreso) than some stoner on his second joint, and just as dangerous as someone tweaking or flying.

This isn't a suggestion that drug addicts be handed guns at first request, but just a connection to the War on (some)Drugs.

I suspect that people are shot for alcohol money, or during a crime to gain alcohol money, much less frequently than for money to buy other drugs. The cost of outlawing "bad" drugs and making "good" drugs easily accessible and taxed.

edwardm
04-28-2009, 2:49 PM
What about someone who gets rip-roaring drunk, pissed off, and caps himself, his old lady, a neighbor, etc? Dig through any number of homicide filings involving guns and you'll see alcohol involved frequently.

I suspect that people are shot for alcohol money, or during a crime to gain alcohol money, much less frequently than for money to buy other drugs. The cost of outlawing "bad" drugs and making "good" drugs easily accessible and taxed.

Justin3
04-28-2009, 3:07 PM
Well the original question was to see if he was allowed to "legally" own a gun, not if he "should" own one.

I mean, should he own a gun? I don't know. It really isn't my choice. If he asks me to help him pick out a gun and accompany him to the gun store, yes I would help.
But I really don't get to choose if he should or shouldn't.
I won't even recommend that he not because obviously it is his right to own a gun like you and me.

Personally, I think he'll be all right with a firearm.

BONECUTTER
04-28-2009, 3:15 PM
Oh man, there's going to be a lot of unhappy dope smokers here at Calguns when they read this...http://smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Smoking/smoking-red-eyes-009.gif (http://smileyshut.com)

No....most of them have an RX..... hence the "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Most are good to go :thumbsup:

E Pluribus Unum
04-28-2009, 4:31 PM
Does it strike anyone else that this question asks about narcotics, controlled substances, etc. but doesn't ask about alcohol? Someone on his 2nd bottle of Jim Beam is just as dangerous with a gun (maybe moreso) than some stoner on his second joint, and just as dangerous as someone tweaking or flying.

This isn't a suggestion that drug addicts be handed guns at first request, but just a connection to the War on (some)Drugs.

Im not suggesting that he cant stay off the drugs while shooting. I am saying that he may just like drugs now but what about 5 years down the road? Drugs have a habit of controlling your life. If he buys a gun now and his drugs take over he has a higher likelihood of using his gun in a crime to obtain drug money.

Bigugly
04-28-2009, 4:35 PM
http://newmedia.umaine.edu/images/Jon%20Ippolito/seiler_with_record-(mip@u.jpg

What does this have to do with this thread?

JDay
04-28-2009, 4:54 PM
What does this have to do with this thread?

Maybe he's trying to buy a gun with that record?

Seesm
04-28-2009, 6:42 PM
Blue plate special?

edwardm
04-28-2009, 7:03 PM
I disagree.

Read 18 USC 922(g), then go read 27 CFR 478.11. It will be instructive for you to do so. Some snippets:

18 USC 922(g)(3):
It shall be unlawful for any person—
...
who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
...
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Now 27 CFR 478.11:

Controlled substance. A drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, 21 U.S.C. 802. The term includes, but is not limited to, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, and narcotic drugs. The term does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in Subtitle E of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.

and

Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance. A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; multiple arrests for such offenses within the past 5 years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year; or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year. For a current or former member of the Armed Forces, an inference of current use may be drawn from recent disciplinary or other administrative action based on confirmed drug use, e.g., court-martial conviction, nonjudicial punishment, or an administrative discharge based on drug use or drug rehabilitation failure.

It is painfully clear the law contemplates controlled substances. Congress can put in the word "alcohol" when it means to include alcohol.

Yes it does:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
11.E "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

TheBundo
04-28-2009, 11:35 PM
Was he placed on 3 years of "informal probation"? That just means you can't get in trouble for 3 years, and it's routine after DUI's and even lessor offenses. It's not like regular probation, where you have to check in, have a probation officer, etc. But it's still probation. Not sure how that affects things - it may not at all, because some of these things don't require you to surrender weapons you already own.

Dr. Peter Venkman
04-29-2009, 1:18 AM
What does this have to do with this thread?

It's a guy with a record.

No....most of them have an RX..... hence the "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Most are good to go :thumbsup:

No. The Federal Government does not recognize medical marijuana.

cousinkix1953
04-29-2009, 4:06 AM
Is he any worse than some of the idiots who take a 12 pack of beer into the duck blinds. We used to round up their empty shotshells, and also found a lot of bottles and cans at the public hunting places...

BigDogatPlay
04-29-2009, 6:14 AM
If the conviction for whatever it was ran as a misdemeanor, then the person would not be prohibited from transferring.

What I haven't seen yet in this thread are the probation terms, aside from 3 years informal. If the probation terms include not to own or possess weapons or firearms, then he can't lawfully transfer or even hold the OP firearm at the range without violating his probation.

+1 on all of above regarding medical marijuana. The feds do not recognize it. As far as they are concerned possession of marijuana is a felony, period, whether you have a state issued pot card or not.

cousinkix1953
04-29-2009, 4:06 PM
And the definition of misdemeanor and felony vary from state to state as well. They still throw people in prison for smoking dope in few states and those kind of punishments aren't handed out for a misdemeanor either.

anthonyca
04-29-2009, 8:47 PM
Does it strike anyone else that this question asks about narcotics, controlled substances, etc. but doesn't ask about alcohol? Someone on his 2nd bottle of Jim Beam is just as dangerous with a gun (maybe moreso) than some stoner on his second joint, and just as dangerous as someone tweaking or flying.

This isn't a suggestion that drug addicts be handed guns at first request, but just a connection to the War on (some)Drugs.

I have never been into that drug sceen. I do know what treaking is but what is flying?

tyrist
04-29-2009, 9:04 PM
What substance and what state?

hvengel
04-30-2009, 3:37 PM
I suspect that people are shot for alcohol money, or during a crime to gain alcohol money, much less frequently than for money to buy other drugs. The cost of outlawing "bad" drugs and making "good" drugs easily accessible and taxed.

Alcoholics can at times be very violent. I personally know two people who were murdered (one beat to death and the other stabbed) in arguments over alcohol and I know two others who were murdered in bars (one shot and the other stabbed). These are all people that I went to school with and I am from a very small town (my graduating class was 34 people).

I do agree that it would be worse if alcohol was still against the law. But making something legal in many cases only results in a different set of, perhaps severe, problems. It is not a cure all.

cousinkix1953
04-30-2009, 6:16 PM
A judge made my brother give up his guns after being arrested for drunken driving in the 90s. He couldn't have them until after completing a one year probation period without any more problems with the law. He got them back about 14 months later, when he moved to Virginia to take a new job...

Riodog
04-30-2009, 11:35 PM
So who gives a rat's *** about all the picky-uny bs??? Do we really want some POS loady running around with a gun representing the rest of us?
I don't think so.
Rio

cousinkix1953
05-01-2009, 12:56 AM
Don't get your panties in a bunch you scheisskopf! There were NO guns in the car when he got busted for DUI in Salinas. Maybe you'll be lucky to have your toys taken away for another unrelated offense. We never know in anti-gun Kommiefornia; because the mass media rarely reports most of the new laws in a timely manner any more...