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View Full Version : Concern about mental state of family member, can I seize their firearms?


Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 8:50 AM
I want to know how the law would view someone who seized/confiscated firearms from a family member because they became concerned about that persons mental state / possible substance abuse? Especially in view of the rash of shootings lately would the law/court look kindly on someone erring on the side of caution?


Yes....I know the authorities could be called and all that. But no one wants a family member to get run thru the wringer by the system. They just want everyone to be safe and for their family member to get help.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

1911su16b870
04-27-2009, 8:57 AM
You may not sieze/confiscate property from someone without the legal authority to do so.

It is very hard to get someone to admit that they are 5150 or have a chemical addiction.

All that you can do is start documenting the behaviors that demonstrate the illness and protect yourself and loved ones and then call LEO if possible harm comes from that individual.

glockman19
04-27-2009, 9:08 AM
IMHO, bringing big brother, into the situation is not advised. Somehow the system makes a criminal out of everyone. Innocent until proven Guilty could be changed today into Guilty until proved innocent. Espically when applied to firearms.

Try to deal with it in any other way before bringing, as you put it, "authorities" into the situation. If there is a medical issue then you should deal wiht it accordingly.

You may inadvertantly cause more damage and hardship than you mean to or want to.

Fate
04-27-2009, 9:10 AM
Clandestinely remove the firing pins. :thumbsup: Then have the talk.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 9:10 AM
Ideally they would voluntarily surrender them to another family member for safe keeping. Just tryng to consider all the angles and certainly don't want to get dinged by the COPs cause P/O'd family member called and said someone stole their guns.

HowardW56
04-27-2009, 9:12 AM
I would take the guns for safe storage... The worst thing that can happen is that he will call the police... If that happens, lay it all out and give them the weapons... Make sure you have other family members with you, that they agree with what you are doing, and that they are willing to back you up if the poice are called...

And 1911 is absolutely corect, you have no legal authority to do anything. But I don't believe anyone would do anything about it.

AEC1
04-27-2009, 9:13 AM
If you take them without their consent it would be stealing. So like what has been posted, try and get the firing pins, or better yet convince the family member to let you hold them for a bit...

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 9:14 AM
IMHO, bringing big brother, into the situation is not advised. Somehow the system makes a criminal out of everyone. Innocent until proven Guilty could be changed today into Guilty until proved innocent. Espically when applied to firearms.

Try to deal with it in any other way before bringing, as you put it, "authorities" into the situation. If there is a medical issue then you should deal wiht it accordingly.

You may inadvertantly cause more damage and hardship than you mean to or want to.

Yes...that is my concern. There could be a much larger ripple effect caused to all areas of this persons life by jumping to getting "the system" involved, which would hopefully be avoided if at all possible. And my personal feeling is often times the system just makes things worse.

I just don't want anything bad to happen to anyone I know and care about.

DVSmith
04-27-2009, 9:15 AM
Clandestinely remove the firing pins. :thumbsup: Then have the talk.

In the strictest sense, wouldn't that be vandalism and possibly trespassing? In any case I think it would be ill advised.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 9:18 AM
I would take the guns for safe storage... The worst thing that can happen is that he will call the police... If that happens, lay it all out and give them the weapons... Make sure you have other family members with you, that they agree with what you are doing, and that they are willing to back you up if the poice are called...

And 1911 is absolutely corect, you have no legal authority to do anything. But I don't believe anyone would do anything about it.

That was my thought.....if they call the COPs I would lay out the situation and hand them over and claim that I acted do to exigency of circumstances. I realize I dont have "legal" authority to do so, I was just wondering how the law would view someone who took those actions out of concern for safety of others. I know I have family backing and a family member who also lives in the house could give me access to remove them while the person of concern is not home to avoid any confrontations.

HowardW56
04-27-2009, 9:22 AM
Go to a pay phone and call the local PD and ask about the situation, hypothetically of course...

Matt C
04-27-2009, 9:23 AM
You can't avoid the legal route if it is available just because it might not be best for them. In other words there is is no immediate threat to someone's life, but you really believe there may be a future threat, you should just call the police.

That said, necessity doctrine basically allows that you would have a defense to crimes like theft, trespassing, assault, ect if you were acting to prevent a more serious immediate harm and there were no better or legal options available to you.

DVSmith
04-27-2009, 9:26 AM
That was my thought.....if they call the COPs I would lay out the situation and hand them over and claim that I acted do to exigency of circumstances. I realize I dont have "legal" authority to do so, I was just wondering how the law would view someone who took those actions out of concern for safety of others. I know I have family backing and a family member who also lives in the house could give me access to remove them while the person of concern is not home to avoid any confrontations.

I will admit that you lay out a difficult situation and I am not 100% sure how I would handle it myself. Still, I see nothing good coming from going this route. If confronted by the authorities, you are going to essentially ask their forgiveness for stealing from a family member with their mental state as justification. The only rational thing the authorities could possibly do is prosecute you as you had no authority to violate your relative's rights. They might let you go with a slap on the wrist or they might not. You are taking an awfully big gamble. The fallout within you family might be even worse to deal with. I think I would consult with an attorney before I did anything.

grahlaika
04-27-2009, 10:00 AM
Definitely a tough situation all around, but the last thing you'd want to happen is for your family member to go out and do something stupid, and you having had the chance to prevent it.

I would definitely try talking to them first, and convincing them that you're trying to help them out by keeping their weapons in safe storage while they get better. If that doesn't work, I don't see a lot of other options besides going the law enforcement route. Maybe there's a way you can get a judge to grant you temporary storage of the weapons (assuming you're qualified to own them yourself) so they don't get confiscated outright. Consulting a qualified lawyer might also help.

Sometimes doing what's in someone's best interest is not something they'll understand or appreciate until much, much later.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 10:04 AM
....the last thing you'd want to happen is for your family member to go out and do something stupid, and you having had the chance to prevent it.
.


My feeling is that all to often people choose to act too late, or "too late" comes before they did anything. I dont want to be one of those people.

HunterJim
04-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Are you a mental health professional educated and experienced enough to judge when seizure is required?

A big downside is the relative might never be able to own firearms again after entanglement with the system.

jim

Maltese Falcon
04-27-2009, 10:14 AM
I think a big issue: Is this person living alone or with other family members? If there is someone else in the house that will go a long way to minimizing any removal of the arms from his/her access.

USAFTS
04-27-2009, 10:15 AM
My feeling is that all to often people choose to act too late, or "too late" comes before they did anything. I dont want to be one of those people.

I am not an attorney but it seems to me that if your actions (removing a weapon etc.) were taken out of a fear for the life of your family member or yourself, the action would fall into the category of self-defense, not unlike any other response to an active threat situation.

I agree that "too late" is exactly that. I would rather regret something I did than something I didn't do.

glockk9mm
04-27-2009, 10:16 AM
How about somebody that a Dr. has said is suffering from depression, does that go as a mental problem situation? Are they restricted from owning firearms?

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Are you a mental health professional educated and experienced enough to judge when seizure is required?

A big downside is the relative might never be able to own firearms again after entanglement with the system.

jim

Nope.....but I've known this person my whole life, and the details of their life, and I know when something is not right, and I am not the only member of my family to have taken note of it, and be concerned about it. A judge or a shrink doesn't have that kind of knowledge I don't care how long they went to school.

And no.....I dont want to do something that will end up putting lifelong restrictions on someone, when they prolly just need to take sometime to get some help and get straightened out. Because the ripple effect could have impacts on things much more important than losing rights to own guns, and effect of that ripple would nly add to the downward spiral, not improve it.

ilbob
04-27-2009, 10:28 AM
Does the guy in question know he has a problem? if so, he might agree to you having custody of his firearms for some period of time.

Would that require the firearms be DROSed?

1911su16b870
04-27-2009, 10:36 AM
Transfer the firearms to his spouse, mom/dad or kids (interfamilial transfer)?

tactic101
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
I want to know how the law would view someone who seized/confiscated firearms from a family member because they became concerned about that persons mental state / possible substance abuse?

Lots of gray area here. Details might help. When you talk about their mental state, that could mean anything from a floridly psychotic person hearing voices commanding him to kill, to somebody grumpier than usual. And "possible substance abuse" could mean a wide variety of things you suspect, from IV drugs/crack to weekend binge drinking. None of it is good.
But a glum guy recently dumped by his girlfriend binge drinking on the weekend would not worry me as much as a guy who hangs out with meth heads and thinks people are out to get him.


Yes....I know the authorities could be called and all that. But no one wants a family member to get run thru the wringer by the system. They just want everyone to be safe and for their family member to get help.

If the person states that they want to hurt themselves or others it is very clear cut, you must call the authorities. You will not be able to reason with them.

I was asked a while back about some of these issues involving a friend of a friend. Never threatened anybody but his drinking was out of control. Within a day had the guy's wife and child quietly leave to stay with relatives until he went into rehab. No big announcement, confrontation, "intervention"--the goal was to get them safe.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Does the guy in question know he has a problem? if so, he might agree to you having custody of his firearms for some period of time.

Would that require the firearms be DROSed?

I and another family member intend to have a talk with him and my hope is that he will voluntarily agree to surrended the firearms and get help. I'm just trying to plan ahead in case that doesn't go well.

If they can be handed over to me they can be safely stored for how ever long they need be. 30 days right? The 30 day period always started "yesterday" right?

Rivers
04-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Rather than taking possession of the weapons, why not just install locks / security cables on all of them? That way you have effectively disabled the guns without exposing yourself to any accusations of theft.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 10:50 AM
Lots of gray area here. Details might help. When you talk about their mental state, that could mean anything from a floridly psychotic person hearing voices commanding him to kill, to somebody grumpier than usual. And "possible substance abuse" could mean a wide variety of things you suspect, from IV drugs/crack to weekend binge drinking. None of it is good.
But a glum guy recently dumped by his girlfriend binge drinking on the weekend would not worry me as much as a guy who hangs out with meth heads and thinks people are out to get him.



If the person states that they want to hurt themselves or others it is very clear cut, you must call the authorities. You will not be able to reason with them.

I was asked a while back about some of these issues involving a friend of a friend. Never threatened anybody but his drinking was out of control. Within a day had the guy's wife and child quietly leave to stay with relatives until he went into rehab. No big announcement, confrontation, "intervention"--the goal was to get them safe.


I dont want to go into too much detail on a public forum and I'm sure you can understand that. But suffice it to say it's more than just a guy who went on one weekend drinking binge because he got dumped. My personally feeling is he may be suffering with PTSD/depression or something similar as a result of a longterm stressful career (not military) with other life stresses added no top and he is "self-medicating" with alcohol and, more recently by his own admission to me, other substances. Having had years of experience with drug & alcohol counseling and family support services I dont think he's crossed the line to be a full blown alcoholic/addict at this point. But if help is not gotten soon it is heading in the direction.

And incident occurred over the weekend that I will not give details about, but it was simply bizarre beyond anything I have known from this person in all my life and it caused me deep concern and I dont want to be one of those people who pretends everything is ok and has to live with themselves the rest of their life knowing they could have done something but didn't, for his sake or anyone elses.

DDT
04-27-2009, 10:53 AM
One word:

Intervention

Don't even think of trying it alone. Get a number of friends and family involved. It's not about the guns, that is a side issue. The intervention needs to be about the substance abuse and the mental incapacity.

Once you go down that road, if they agree that their life is out of control you might be able to discuss disabling their firearms in some fashion. For their own protection, don't mention concerns about the use of the weapons on others, this will turn them defensive. Also, don't take possession of the weapons, take his trigger lock keys or put new trigger locks on etc. If you take possession and he goes out and does something stupid with a knife, borrowed/stolen gun, car etc. The DA will look to you as a scapegoat having his weapons in any manner that isn't consistent with CPC (e.g. loaned for more than 30 days) will be a VERY BAD thing for you.

Remember; guns are not the core issue, it's your family members well being. Just as we keep saying to the antis "Don't make it about the guns."

DDT
04-27-2009, 10:59 AM
Sorry, posted before I read some of the later posts (you know how bad that always looks)

Since you have a history you know all about drugs and depression etc. it's good to see that you are planning to talk to him as a group.

It sounds like he is in a situation where he still has some understanding that he is on a path of bad life choices. Talking to him frankly about the possibility of depression seeping into his life might help get him to permit you to lock his firearms up for him.

Obviously, professional help is a huge boost to helping someone with this sort of issue. Also, AA/NA et. al. are meetings open to all. Take him to a couple meetings just to listen to some of the stories, no need to even broach the subject of him actually being there yet.

It's much better to deal with this now rather than waiting until something happens and he loses his rights permanently.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 11:02 AM
One word:

Intervention

Don't even think of trying it alone. Get a number of friends and family involved. It's not about the guns, that is a side issue. The intervention needs to be about the substance abuse and the mental incapacity.

Once you go down that road, if they agree that their life is out of control you might be able to discuss disabling their firearms in some fashion. For their own protection, don't mention concerns about the use of the weapons on others, this will turn them defensive. Also, don't take possession of the weapons, take his trigger lock keys or put new trigger locks on etc. If you take possession and he goes out and does something stupid with a knife, borrowed/stolen gun, car etc. The DA will look to you as a scapegoat having his weapons in any manner that isn't consistent with CPC (e.g. loaned for more than 30 days) will be a VERY BAD thing for you.

Remember; guns are not the core issue, it's your family members well being. Just as we keep saying to the antis "Don't make it about the guns."

All good advice and I do agree. And I didn't intend to "make it about the guns". I have plenty of background on how to deal with the "main issue", and I wouldn't come here to ask about that anyway. This is a gun forum and I asked here to specfically address this one aspect of the issue. I can't keep him from doing something stupid with a knife or his car or a even a big stick. But I can do what I can do.....the guns are something I can do something about.

Publius
04-27-2009, 11:14 AM
I want to know how the law would view someone who seized/confiscated firearms from a family member because they became concerned about that persons mental state / possible substance abuse?

I don't want to make this situation any more difficult than it is, but there's another possibility you should keep in mind here. Spend some time thinking about what your exit strategy is here, especially if you think this individual is a danger to others. In other words, if you think his behavior is disturbing enough to ask him to give up his guns, who will make the decision that he should have them back? And if it's you, what criteria will you apply? The disposition of a depressed person will sometimes improve right before they commit suicide, because they feel relief that they have settled on a "solution" to their problems. If you make the call to return the weapons and it turns out that the individual was not "all better" and he does something stupid with them, be prepared for the possibility of some lawyers doing some Monday morning quarterbacking at your expense.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't want to make this situation any more difficult than it is, but there's another possibility you should keep in mind here. Spend some time thinking about what your exit strategy is here, especially if you think this individual is a danger to others. In other words, if you think his behavior is disturbing enough to ask him to give up his guns, who will make the decision that he should have them back? And if it's you, what criteria will you apply? The disposition of a depressed person will sometimes improve right before they commit suicide, because they feel relief that they have settled on a "solution" to their problems. If you make the call to return the weapons and it turns out that the individual was not "all better" and he does something stupid with them, be prepared for the possibility of some lawyers doing some Monday morning quarterbacking at your expense.

Good point and something to think about.

Although I don't see the returning of an weapons as a quick turnaround kinda thing either, not like I expect him to be all better in a couple of weeks. But you do still make a good point that I will seriously consider. Thank you.

Steyrlp10
04-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Best of luck in trying to resolve this. It's always painful to have to watch this happen to someone you care about, but I think you're on the right road by being cautious.

I do like the idea of not having any firing pins -- better to not have any ammo too!

liketoshoot
04-27-2009, 11:57 AM
I had a similar problem come up a few years ago, My brother in law and sister in law were going thru a not friendly divorce and I (along with other family members) asked him for his guns, he was suicidal and very depressed, fortunately he saw that we had his best interest in mind and gave them to me.
I held on to them till 2 years after it all calmed down and he is glad we were there for him. I only kept them till we all agreed that he was not depressed anymore, we based this on the new girlfriend and steady job he had and his everyday attitude.
Sometimes it works out, hope it does for you too.

DDT
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
All good advice and I do agree. And I didn't intend to "make it about the guns". I have plenty of background on how to deal with the "main issue", and I wouldn't come here to ask about that anyway. This is a gun forum and I asked here to specfically address this one aspect of the issue. I can't keep him from doing something stupid with a knife or his car or a even a big stick. But I can do what I can do.....the guns are something I can do something about.

As I said, I posted that first response before I saw that you have experience in this sort of issue. I understand that you can only do what you can do to help him.

Legasat
04-27-2009, 1:17 PM
I would NOT get LE involved unless you feel there is no other choice.

My Dad took guns away from his Uncle, sort of (Alzheimers).

He went to his Uncle and asked him if he trusted him. When his Uncle said yes, my Dad asked him to sign over possession of his guns, because he was concerned about him. Much to everyone's surprise, he did.

Not saying that would work in your situation, but you and preferably a family member or two (not too many, you don't want to frighten him or put him on the defensive), could go and just ask him. Some people know when they are in trouble, and you never know until you ask.

Best of luck.

JDay
04-27-2009, 2:29 PM
In the strictest sense, wouldn't that be vandalism and possibly trespassing? In any case I think it would be ill advised.

It would be theft.

WokMaster1
04-27-2009, 4:04 PM
as a gun owner, are you allowed to use illegal drugs? :confused:

Gator Monroe
04-27-2009, 4:13 PM
Firearms are toooo valuable to a family to allow Leos to confiscate them so they should be a family matter first !

Maestro Pistolero
04-27-2009, 4:30 PM
If the guy has any clue that he has a problem, that may help. Explain to him your options as you see them, and all of the ramifications to him for each of them. If you can catch him in a relatively sober moment. (Like when he first wakes up and before he gets loaded) you might have better luck.

It is doubtful he will pick plan B, if plan B involves the police. Make him understand you have his best interests at heart and communicate with respect and love. Make it clear he is not giving them up forever, just until he gets his feet on the ground.

However, plan B probably means he'll give them up forever. And don't give him much time to think about it. Get him to make a snap decision and then leave with the guns. Whatever you do, don't antagonize him. Stay calm and compassionate no matter what.

My two cents.

Untamed1972
04-27-2009, 7:40 PM
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their input on this. Not the thing I want to hafta deal with....but like I said....I'm not gonna be the person who waits to long to act. your input is very much appreciated.

Thank You
Untamed

Dark&Good
04-27-2009, 8:05 PM
Are you a mental health professional educated and experienced enough to judge when seizure is required?


Sometimes one doesn't require professional education and much experience to judge about another's actions... we don't know everything the OP knows.
And if the OP officially involves a shrink in this, he might end up with the same results he's trying to avoid...

Meplat
04-27-2009, 8:09 PM
In the strictest sense, wouldn't that be vandalism and possibly trespassing? In any case I think it would be ill advised.

If you are not willing to risk minor charges like that to save a father, son, or brother. You are lower than pond scum.

Meplat
04-27-2009, 8:18 PM
Are you a mental health professional educated and experienced enough to judge when seizure is required?

A big downside is the relative might never be able to own firearms again after entanglement with the system.

jim

Which is why you should "just do it" on your own.

Stan_Humphries
04-27-2009, 8:53 PM
I have pondered this question re: the suicidal claims of another.

I thought about law enforcement intervention to take the guns away, but then I realized that it would only mean the person I was concerned over would have to find another way to go out.

In the end, I figured that firearms were merely a tool to accomplish (a terrible) outcome. If I helped take away one type of tool, others remained.

I came to the conclusion that if I was going to do anything, I would have to go all the way and demand involuntary commitment. It would be the only sure way to address the real concern.

Consider your situation: will taking away just one form of dangerous implement be enough? After all, you aren't worried that the guns are going to do something, you are concerned that the person is going to do something.

Ultimately, I did nothing.

Dark&Good
04-27-2009, 9:03 PM
I have pondered this question re: the suicidal claims of another.

I thought about law enforcement intervention to take the guns away, but then I realized that it would only mean the person I was concerned over would have to find another way to go out.

In the end, I figured that firearms were merely a tool to accomplish (a terrible) outcome. If I helped take away one type of tool, others remained.

I came to the conclusion that if I was going to do anything, I would have to go all the way and demand involuntary commitment. It would be the only sure way to address the real concern.

Consider your situation: will taking away just one form of dangerous implement be enough? After all, you aren't worried that the guns are going to do something, you are concerned that the person is going to do something.


My thoughts about suicide are very similar. If someone really wants to die, he can, with or without a gun.
I am not sure if the OP's concern is suicide-related, though...

mattmcg
04-27-2009, 9:38 PM
My $.02......

First, family matters like this should never involve the cops.

Second, family law trumps any legislative law to ensure the safety and security of your family and friends. So, do what you need to do to take care of your family. If that means having an intervention and temporarily removing the firearms from the residence for the time being, so be it.

Take care of family matters within the family. It always boils my blood to see family members too chicken **** to take care of family business by themselves. Buck up and do what's right. In the end, you'll all be happier for it and remain a more cohesive unit once things settle....

Untamed1972
04-28-2009, 7:56 AM
I have pondered this question re: the suicidal claims of another.

I thought about law enforcement intervention to take the guns away, but then I realized that it would only mean the person I was concerned over would have to find another way to go out.

In the end, I figured that firearms were merely a tool to accomplish (a terrible) outcome. If I helped take away one type of tool, others remained.

I came to the conclusion that if I was going to do anything, I would have to go all the way and demand involuntary commitment. It would be the only sure way to address the real concern.

Consider your situation: will taking away just one form of dangerous implement be enough? After all, you aren't worried that the guns are going to do something, you are concerned that the person is going to do something.

Ultimately, I did nothing.

No, but I do think a firearm is a quick and easy way that someone could employ in a moment of deep dispair. Where some other means require a little more planning, preparation, effort, possibly pain and so on, so the person willing to go to those lengths is more decided and determined then the person who picks up the handgun in a snap decision and pulls the trigger.

The person in question has enough background and knowledge based on his profession to end himself if he wanted to, and I know I can't stop that if he was truly determined. I don't feel it is to that point yet though, which is why I want to act now and not later before it gets to that point.

Untamed1972
04-28-2009, 8:01 AM
My $.02......

First, family matters like this should never involve the cops.

Second, family law trumps any legislative law to ensure the safety and security of your family and friends. So, do what you need to do to take care of your family. If that means having an intervention and temporarily removing the firearms from the residence for the time being, so be it.

Take care of family matters within the family. It always boils my blood to see family members too chicken **** to take care of family business by themselves. Buck up and do what's right. In the end, you'll all be happier for it and remain a more cohesive unit once things settle....

Yes....I agree. I don't wanna be a chicken****. It's time people get back to taking care of their own and stop expecting someone else to do it for them. Personal responsibility has been the motto/code that I have lived by, and to me this is just an extention of that. I do my damnedest to walk the walk.

That's why I came here to ask about this aspect. I wanted to have at least plan A-D in mind so that as things play out I have options already determined.

Riodog
04-28-2009, 8:30 AM
DAMMNN, is that you, Brother, that's posting this??? How'd you know I hang out here?

NO, you ain't gettin my guns cuz I'll need um when obamy's boy's come around an if ya don't stop this crap I'll be spendin the rest of your inheritance. Sides I think I see one in the hidin in the bushes now.:TFH:
Rio

Untamed1972
04-28-2009, 1:53 PM
Not to mention that if I had to go the legal/authorities route it could involve loss of things far more important the a right to own guns in the future. So I don't want to be hasty in my choice of actions.

turbosbox
04-28-2009, 5:32 PM
I would say don't take them without talking to him first. If he refuses all reasonable suggestions to help. Then maybe have to elevate it to 'authorities'. I've taken someone to a Dr for mental health when they had symptoms, and others noted them to me also. Literally made arrangements ahead of time with Dr, and got the guy out of bed and said let's go. I told him "we cared about him, and just had to make sure we didn't fail him". He took it ok considering. He proceeded to lie to the Dr and deny his symptoms, so they didn't treat him beyond the initial appointment (I was in a position to have the Dr tell me that much), but at least having someone show him some caring shook him out of it.

If he refuses all efforts to actually help. Then I guess authorities is the only viable alternative. Just rolling him over as the first thing will not go good. E.g. taking his guns without his OK :mad:

Untamed1972
06-05-2009, 8:24 PM
.....so I wasn't able to get to my family member and have that talk with him in the time frame I was hoping. Well a couple of weeks ago he found himself on the wrong side of "the man", which sucks for him, but in a way I'm glad it happened. It needed to happen, cuz it opened him to being listening to those around him who'd been trying to get his attention. So shortly there after I had a talk with him, and asked him to give me his guns for "safe keeping" for a little while. Prolly one of the hardest things I've ever had to do with this person. He was a little offended and refused at the time saying it was not needed and everything would be ok when it came to that. That was about 2 weeks ago.

Well out of the blue today about 2:30pm I get a call from him. He asked when I will be home from work. I said about 4:00pm. He says: "Ok....I'm gonna come by and give you my guns. I have too much on my mind right now. Will you keep them for me?" Me: "Absolutely! I will see you when I get home."

PHWEEEEEWWWWW!!!!! Not the end by any means....but a big load off my mind in that regard.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that chimed in on this when I posted it and helped get a plan together.

Thanks Again CGers!

HowardW56
06-05-2009, 8:33 PM
I'm glad to hear it all worked out... Having him ask you to hold his guns was the best result you could ask for....

Untamed1972
06-06-2009, 5:34 AM
I just wanted to add to this and say that I am SOOOO glad that I didn't chicken out or wait too long. I beg anyone who thinks, feels, or suspects someone you care about is having a rough time......for their sake and everyone elses'.....PLEASE dont wait too long to talk to them....and even ask them to hand over their guns if you think they need too. Please don't wait! You...of anyone else knows your loved one better than anyone....don't be afraid to step up and make that first move.....you won't regret it.

I DIDN'T!!!!! And it paid off for me and him and possibly all of us in a little way yesterday....

Thank you all for the support and the lending of courage.

Scarecrow Repair
06-06-2009, 6:23 AM
Might it be a good idea to get his permission in writing to hold the guns? You don't want him getting confused or angry later and accuse you of anything.

rkt88edmo
06-06-2009, 6:47 AM
Sounds good!

Untamed1972
06-06-2009, 7:22 AM
Might it be a good idea to get his permission in writing to hold the guns? You don't want him getting confused or angry later and accuse you of anything.

Don't expect that to be an issue. If I'm ever asked.....he "loaned" then to me "last week."

All but one of them are long guns anyway.

cdtx2001
06-06-2009, 7:40 AM
A similar situation happened to a friend of mine.

The police were called to his father's house because the old man was screaming and running around in the street in his underware. He was about 87 years old and Alzheimers was not being kind to him. Anyhow, the police came, got him back in the house and settled down, and noticed there were a lot of rifles on the walls. They told my friend "Those have to go. Either you get them out of here, or we will get them out of here. You really don't want us to take them." They weren't making any threats and told him how difficult it would be to retrieve them later, so it would be easier for him to get them out of the house.

If your family member is really becoming a problem and the police are called, just make sure you are around at the time.

M198
06-06-2009, 8:03 AM
Do intervene. Don't be the guy wishing he did something earlier. That would have to be an awful feeling. If it's come to this point, then intervention is probably the best solution. If they refuse, have them 5150'ed. It's tough love, but probably best for everyone. Not that this is in anyway similar, but look at the parents/families of the mass shooters. I find it hard to belive that someone is not living with those "if only I had ....." type feelings. I have no idea if that applies in the least, but it might.

motorhead
06-06-2009, 9:54 AM
hope it works out for you. FAMILY FIRST!!! expecting the authorities to make our personal lives right only results in grief for all concerned. (i'm from the government and i'm here to help you).
be aware that contact with the law may serve as his wakeup call but chances are it will make things worse in the end. hopefully he did not get far "on the wrong side." if he's already depressed, the system could easily push him over the edge. he needs all the support you can give him. coming to you was a good sign. we pick our own "bottom."

Shotgun Man
06-06-2009, 10:00 AM
Please don't come for mine no matter what you think of me.

TheBundo
06-06-2009, 10:22 PM
I would take the guns for safe storage... The worst thing that can happen is that he will call the police... If that happens, lay it all out and give them the weapons... Make sure you have other family members with you, that they agree with what you are doing, and that they are willing to back you up if the poice are called...

And 1911 is absolutely corect, you have no legal authority to do anything. But I don't believe anyone would do anything about it.


Exactly. If the person called 911 like a raging lunitic screaming about you stealing his guns, and was somehow obviously impaired, and you explained that you secured the weapons off-site, I think they would consider that you did society a favor.

Deadred7o7
06-07-2009, 12:01 AM
There is a price to be paid for individual liberty and for living in a free society. Poor, or stupid personal/family decisions are a part of that.

Far too many people let "good intentions", "the greater good", "we know best" and other benign reasons, guide their views on such issues.

Many are more malignant in their approach to such "Statist" actions. They are deliberate in their thoughts of "knowing better", being "smarter" and in forcing "societal good" on everyone else.
A perfect example of "Collectivism vs. Individualism" in its purist form.