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View Full Version : Encounters with the law while using a hi-cap mag.


SourSig
04-26-2009, 6:02 PM
I'd like to hear from anyone that has dealt with law enforcement while using a hi cap magazine within California.

How did the officer go about determining whether or not your hicap mag was preban?

I'm picturing someone in the forest shooting an SKS with a 30 magazine. Having a ranger or sheriff pull up and make contact. Is there a burden of proof on our behalf, or some way for us to prove to them it's a preban? I can imagine this could go bad, even if it's the 30mag your grandpa handed down to you...

bohoki
04-26-2009, 6:05 PM
well an sks with a 30 rounder would be illegal

either it would be a fixed mag and be an assault weapon or be a detachable and be an assault weapon

depending on how they feel about you if you had a mini 14 and you are 28 years old chances are they would ignore it

but if they felt you were doing something not right then they will confiscate every thing you got and make you have to fight to get it back under the generally accepted "officer acted on good faith" even if the law is not as they understand it

jello2594
04-26-2009, 6:06 PM
Doesn't matter - no law against having a hi-cap magazine in California.

End of subject.

As a matter of fact, I've used my Calico M-100 (100 rd magazine) any my American AM-180 (177 round magazine) around police officers and they didn't have a problem - as I didn't sell, transfer, or give them to anyone.

CHS
04-26-2009, 7:07 PM
I have never once, ever, been questioned by any LEO's about my hi-cap mags while lawfully shooting. LEO's have witnessed the use of those mags, but generally just don't care.

Possession and use of hi-cap mags IS NOT against the law.

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 7:27 PM
Why do we refer to magazines that have more than 10 rounds as "high capacity"? I have a Smith and Wesson 459 9mm that I bought in 1982 that has 15 round magazines. We never called them high capacity before, so why should we play to the scare tactics of the antigun groups by using their BS labels?

VW*Mike
04-26-2009, 7:42 PM
They are illegal if used in an OLL here in CA. SKS, I dunno if you had a magazine preban for your SKS, I am unsure.

ke6guj
04-26-2009, 7:52 PM
They are illegal if used in an OLL here in CA. not always. If you had a featureless build, you could legally use large capacity detachable magazines.


SKS, I dunno if you had a magazine preban for your SKS, I am unsure.an SKS with a detachable magazine is an AW. Not all Simonov-pattern firearms are SKS's. The Yugo M59 and M59/66 are not SKSs, so they should be able to have a detachable large-capacity magazine.

SourSig
04-26-2009, 8:04 PM
We never called them high capacity before, so why should we play to the scare tactics of the antigun groups by using their BS labels?

We're not using their BS labels.
We are using a legal term that the police and courts and law uses.
Hicap = anything over 10 rounds.

Wish I didn't have to learn such language, but unfortunately - we're in CA.

As far as the SKS - let's say it's a 20rd fixed mag. No bayonet and no pistol grip.


I like the fact that people are saying they have never been harrassed by cops. I still wonder about the people we have not yet heard from, the ones that have had issues...

Sniper3142
04-26-2009, 8:07 PM
They are illegal if used in an OLL here in CA. SKS, I dunno if you had a magazine preban for your SKS, I am unsure.

WRONG

Try to be SPECIFIC when posting.

Greater than 10 round magazines are LEGAL when used in an Off List Lower (OLL) semi-auto rifle if that rifle is configured as a Featureless build.

Featureless means there are no characteristics or features that would cause the rifle to be considered an Assault Weapon (by California definitions).

Read the AW flowchart for info on what these features are.

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 8:21 PM
We're not using their BS labels.
We are using a legal term that the police and courts and law uses.
Hicap = anything over 10 rounds.

Wish I didn't have to learn such language, but unfortunately - we're in CA.

I understand your point, but it doesn't make it any less a BS label.

CHS
04-26-2009, 8:42 PM
As far as the SKS - let's say it's a 20rd fixed mag. No bayonet and no pistol grip.


What does a bayonet have to do with anything?

Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not AW features in CA.

bohoki
04-26-2009, 9:03 PM
I understand your point, but it doesn't make it any less a BS label.

it is a convenient term

its very complicated explaining what quantity for each gun would be a larger than normal capacity

and term large capacity hi-cap high capacity are just easily understood by anyone not overly obtusely pedant

a ruger 10/22 standard is 10 any more that is a high cap

a colt 1911 holds 7 the 8 round is a high cap

the magazine for the s&w 915 hold 15 that is a normal capacity but use the same magazine in a S&w 910 it becomes a high cap

same with glocks using a g17 mag in a g19 or 26 turns the magazine from a normal capacity to a large capaticy for that particular pistol

then there are the special cases

the uzi has a 20 rounder and a 32 rounder which is the standard capacity?

the colt ar-15 origionally had a 20 rounder is the 30 rounder a high cap? or is the 20 the old-cap magazine

the hi-power started the wondernine craze its name was in reference to its high capacity "9mm hi-power" almost sounds like an oxymoron

JDay
04-26-2009, 9:38 PM
They are illegal if used in an OLL here in CA. SKS, I dunno if you had a magazine preban for your SKS, I am unsure.

SKS rifles with detachable magazines are specifically listed as "Assault Weapons". Don't know why they did this though, they don't have any of the "evil" features unless you change the stock.

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 9:41 PM
it is a convenient term

its very complicated explaining what quantity for each gun would be a larger than normal capacity

and term large capacity hi-cap high capacity are just easily understood by anyone not overly obtusely pedant

a ruger 10/22 standard is 10 any more that is a high cap

a colt 1911 holds 7 the 8 round is a high cap

the magazine for the s&w 915 hold 15 that is a normal capacity but use the same magazine in a S&w 910 it becomes a high cap

same with glocks using a g17 mag in a g19 or 26 turns the magazine from a normal capacity to a large capaticy for that particular pistol

then there are the special cases

the uzi has a 20 rounder and a 32 rounder which is the standard capacity?

the colt ar-15 origionally had a 20 rounder is the 30 rounder a high cap? or is the 20 the old-cap magazine

the hi-power started the wondernine craze its name was in reference to its high capacity "9mm hi-power" almost sounds like an oxymoron

Okay, I understand your point, but before the "high capacity" label was put on mags holding more than 10 rounds, we just labeled them by the amount of rounds they held (i.e. 20 rnds=20 round mag, 30 rnds=30 round magazine.) I personally dislike the term because it was coined by the antigunners as yet another way to vilify an inanimate object. In the interview with Wayne LaPierre and Gov. Rendell of Pa., Rendell attempts to do that exact thing by claiming that mags > 10 rounds are evil and kill more people and had the gall to suggest that only a mass murderer would want a mag > 10 rounds to inflict more death on a group of people. So, if you please, I am personally opposed to using misnomers created by my opponents to vilify me. Does that mean that I'm taking this too personally, maybe, but I think we should get personal about this since this is a personal right.

Python2
04-26-2009, 9:48 PM
They are illegal if used in an OLL here in CA. .

It would be nice posting something you are 100% sure of what you are saying. You are confusing other members not to par with OLL.

7x57
04-26-2009, 10:36 PM
SKS rifles with detachable magazines are specifically listed as "Assault Weapons". Don't know why they did this though, they don't have any of the "evil" features unless you change the stock.

Because poor people can (could) afford them. Poor people are savage animals. You wouldn't want savage animals to have such things, I'm sure.

7x57

VW*Mike
04-27-2009, 12:36 AM
Sorry, I knew that, but it slipped my brain for a moment. Now for my next trick. I keep thinking of all the high caps I have that I can't use in my OLL since it IS an "evil looking" rifle until the laws change or I get out of here. Again, my apologies for my brain fart, guess I shouldn't hold in my farts from the mexican food, seems they travel upstairs. :p

RideIcon
04-27-2009, 12:44 AM
Doesn't matter - no law against having a hi-cap magazine in California.

End of subject.


:thumbsup:

Seesm
04-27-2009, 1:29 AM
I have shot around some local LEO's and not yet had any issues... They thought the hi-caps in a rimfire was legal no matter what. SO I guess that is a good mistake but I did explain how it worked...

And the same one I talked in depth with though ALL "regular sized" mags (over 10) were illegal even if use with a "fat grip" as he called it... (MMG) and no flash hider... So that is not good.

He also thought me (civilian) with any Ar "style" rifle with a pistol grip was illegal. He had no idea it seemed that a bullet button equipped ar style rifle with no larger than 10 rds mags was good to go...

vg247
04-27-2009, 1:35 AM
Just a resummary, in brief, approx 2-3 years ago my brother had an attempted robbery when he was home...the police were called and upon 'clearing the home' they were informed by my brother that he legally owned firearms in the house (in fear that robbers inside the house found them)...anyhow it was later determined that the cops arrived and the crooks fled. BUT while inside the cops questioned my brother and interrogated him as if he was the criminal..i.e. why are you home at noon, whose car is that (reference to his luxury auto) and THEN they found his "registered assault AR" with 8 30-rd mags in the case...they took everything citing they couldnt verify it being registered and asked, "where you get these referring to the mags"...anyhow the case had a positive outcome after $5k in legal fees to get the gun and mags back...my bro knew he can buy a new rifle for much less but believed in his right and didnt want to be oppressed so went the long expensive legal route to get his gear back....The PD was San Jose PD, my brother lives in San Jose South area.

Hope this FYI give everyone insights about our "to protect and to serve friends..."

(the story in detail appears in my past posts some time ago here in the forum http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=39327

crispybutternuts
04-27-2009, 10:44 PM
I'd like to hear from anyone that has dealt with law enforcement while using a hi cap magazine within California.

How did the officer go about determining whether or not your hicap mag was preban?

I'm picturing someone in the forest shooting an SKS with a 30 magazine. Having a ranger or sheriff pull up and make contact. Is there a burden of proof on our behalf, or some way for us to prove to them it's a preban? I can imagine this could go bad, even if it's the 30mag your grandpa handed down to you...


As far as the SKS - let's say it's a 20rd fixed mag. No bayonet and no pistol grip.
.

According to the law, you cannot have a fixed permanent magazine with a capacity above 10 rounds. And in the case where you would have a 30 round detachable magazine without AW features is against the law because it specifically defines that a "SKS" cannot have detachable magazines.

WIth that said I wish someone would challenge the "SKS" part. Wouldn't that be the same as categorizing the entire "SKS" manufactures similar to when they were doing this with the AR prior to us having OLL's?

I want to put a detachable pre-ban mag on my Yugo but I don,t have enough courage or money to exercise my interpretation of the language of law.:banghead:

I currently have a fixed Tapco magazine (I load it with strippers just fine) and the T6 stock, but I know it would have to go away with a detachable mag. Your screwed no matter what with a "SKS".

Initially they wanted to ban the rifles completely but a large number of "SKS" owners actually hunt with them, so there had to be a comprimise. They wanted the sporter on the list and not to be duplicated. But again, a yugo doesnt say "SKS" anywhere on it because it is not a "SKS". Sure looks like one though!:rolleyes:

but like the aforementioned, who's going to challenge a possible felony?

Just ranting. Hope that clears up your question.:cool:

DedEye
04-27-2009, 10:53 PM
Never once had or personally witnessed a bad experience involving large capacity magazines and law enforcement officers.

JDay
04-27-2009, 11:17 PM
I currently have a fixed Tapco magazine (I load it with strippers just fine) and the T6 stock, but I know it would have to go away with a detachable mag. Your screwed no matter what with a "SKS".

I hope that holds 10 rounds or less. BTW, the "high-capacity" SKS magazines tend to have problems.

Seesm
04-27-2009, 11:58 PM
VG247 didn't your brother have the paperwork that showed he WAS the registered owner of said RAW? That was a terrible story... :)

Jicko
04-28-2009, 12:02 AM
I'd like to hear from anyone that has dealt with law enforcement while using a hi cap magazine within California.

How did the officer go about determining whether or not your hicap mag was preban?

I'm picturing someone in the forest shooting an SKS with a 30 magazine. Having a ranger or sheriff pull up and make contact. Is there a burden of proof on our behalf, or some way for us to prove to them it's a preban? I can imagine this could go bad, even if it's the 30mag your grandpa handed down to you...

2 ways to deal with it:

1) tell them the truth... about how you got them.... and when you got them...

2) shut up and not say a word, then let them arrest you if they believe that they have PC... and then discuss with your attorney

OR

don't use them if you are scared....

Jicko
04-28-2009, 12:04 AM
Sorry, I knew that, but it slipped my brain for a moment. Now for my next trick. I keep thinking of all the high caps I have that I can't use in my OLL since it IS an "evil looking" rifle until the laws change or I get out of here. Again, my apologies for my brain fart, guess I shouldn't hold in my farts from the mexican food, seems they travel upstairs. :p

Go back and DELETE your post!

glockwise2000
04-28-2009, 12:13 AM
Let me clear this out. Lets say I made an OLL AR with a featureless build and I don't have an RAW, it is okay to use my 30 rounder mags or even my drums on that particular rifle?

DedEye
04-28-2009, 12:16 AM
Let me clear this out. Lets say I made an OLL AR with a featureless build and I don't have an RAW, it is okay to use my 30 rounder mags or even my drums on that particular rifle?

On a featureless AR? Why wouldn't it be?

Yes, if you've got them it's perfectly legal to use magazines with a capacity greater than ten rounds in your featureless, detachable magazine rifle.

ke6guj
04-28-2009, 12:27 AM
Let me clear this out. Lets say I made an OLL AR with a featureless build and I don't have an RAW, it is okay to use my 30 rounder mags or even my drums on that particular rifle?As long as it has a standard mag release so that the mags are detachable. With a BB, an 11+round mag would be illegal.

artherd
04-28-2009, 2:15 AM
I'd like to hear from anyone that has dealt with law enforcement while using a hi cap magazine within California.

Personally dealt with plenty of LEOs while using my lawfully acquired high caps, and have had 0 problems.

Possession is not controlled.

CGF however has defended several arrests...

ohsmily
04-28-2009, 9:04 AM
According to the law, you cannot have a fixed permanent magazine with a capacity above 10 rounds. And in the case where you would have a 30 round detachable magazine without AW features is against the law because it specifically defines that a "SKS" cannot have detachable magazines.

WIth that said I wish someone would challenge the "SKS" part. Wouldn't that be the same as categorizing the entire "SKS" manufactures similar to when they were doing this with the AR prior to us having OLL's?

I want to put a detachable pre-ban mag on my Yugo but I don,t have enough courage or money to exercise my interpretation of the language of law.:banghead:

I currently have a fixed Tapco magazine (I load it with strippers just fine) and the T6 stock, but I know it would have to go away with a detachable mag. Your screwed no matter what with a "SKS".

Initially they wanted to ban the rifles completely but a large number of "SKS" owners actually hunt with them, so there had to be a comprimise. They wanted the sporter on the list and not to be duplicated. But again, a yugo doesnt say "SKS" anywhere on it because it is not a "SKS". Sure looks like one though!:rolleyes:

but like the aforementioned, who's going to challenge a possible felony?

Just ranting. Hope that clears up your question.:cool:

It is legal to outfit your Yugo "SKS" (it isn't an SKS, as you point out) with detachable magazines. If you had high caps from before the ban, like I do, you can use those as well.

Though, you have to deal with the 922(r) parts game if you are going to change the rifle around like that.

ohsmily
04-28-2009, 9:05 AM
Let me clear this out. Lets say I made an OLL AR with a featureless build and I don't have an RAW, it is okay to use my 30 rounder mags or even my drums on that particular rifle?

Let me clear this out....YES!!! WHY NOT??? What law are you reading that is giving you pause.

soopafly
04-28-2009, 9:29 AM
We're not using their BS labels.
We are using a legal term that the police and courts and law uses.
Hicap = anything over 10 rounds.
More accurately, the term codified into law is "LARGE CAPACITY"