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bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Okay, so it bugs me a little when American police departments issue foreign made guns. I mean you dont see Americn police departments using foreign made cars right? Usually Crown Vics, Dodge Chargers, Chevy Impalas.

I'm not saying police officers should not have the option of carrying foreign guns (on their dime), just saying maybe we should stick to American made guns for issue. Remember issue means taxpayers money. What do you guys think?

Saigon1965
04-26-2009, 12:42 PM
Why limit the choices - There are better weapons out there from various countries - I feel we would be dis-servicing if we limit to only American made guns - I want to armed the PD with the best that my tax money can buy -

MontClaire
04-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Okay, so it bugs me a little when American police departments issue foreign made guns. I mean you dont see Americn police departments using foreign made cars right? Usually Crown Vics, Dodge Chargers, Chevy Impalas.

I'm not saying police officers should not have the option of carrying foreign guns (on their dime), just saying maybe we should stick to American made guns for issue. Remember issue means taxpayers money. What do you guys think?

They use crowns and other ford crap is because US auto cartels own the federal and state people. It's that simple. Nobody says that those cars are better then mercedes but they surely cost as much to the departments. I am happy that my department allowed us to carry german made arms because they are the best in my opinion. I am all for let the user choose his own tools of the trade, but in many dept it's what the supply people are pushing. Everyone knows of kickbacks but noone can stop it.

Technical Ted
04-26-2009, 12:54 PM
Okay, so it bugs me a little when American police departments issue foreign made guns. I mean you dont see Americn police departments using foreign made cars right?
Technically I have: Menlo Park, CA used a few Volvo's sometime in the 1980's.

...and I guess motorcycles don't count in your rationale, but Kawasaki and BMW seem to be pretty popular brands.

nobody33
04-26-2009, 12:57 PM
The Ford cars we drive are made in Canada...

The Sig guns we are issued were made in the USA...


It's not that cut and dry anymore. Our police motorcycles haven't ever been American brands.

MontClaire
04-26-2009, 12:59 PM
The Ford cars we drive are made in Canada...

The Sig guns we are issued were made in the USA...


It's not that cut and dry anymore. Our police motorcycles haven't ever been American brands.

sigs are made in usa but the profits go to the Fatherland! lol. same for canadian made fords. come on canada is a USA by proxy.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 1:00 PM
Technically I have: Menlo Park, CA used a few Volvo's sometime in the 1980's.

...and I guess motorcycles don't count in your rationale, but Kawasaki and BMW seem to be pretty popular brands.

yeah, i have seen some foreign made police vehicles here and there but the majority of goverment vehicles are u.s. made. Whatever happened to buying american?

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 1:02 PM
Our police motorcycles haven't ever been American brands.

well your'e almost right for the most part, i have seen some department going with harleys

JeffM
04-26-2009, 1:03 PM
Give them what works 100% or as close to it as possible. A distant second is what saves taxpayers some money.

A $400 Glock seems to fit the bill nicely.

nobody33
04-26-2009, 1:04 PM
sigs are made in usa but the profits go to the Fatherland! lol. same for canadian made fords. come on canada is a USA by proxy.

The middle class paying jobs created by the manufacturing are worth more to the economy than the profits... which Ford flushes down a toilet in Detriot anyways.

nobody33
04-26-2009, 1:06 PM
well your'e almost right for the most part, i have seen some department going with harleys

With the exception of LAPD, Harley hasn't earned a major contract is years on the west coast (where the highest amount of police motorcycles is due to weather). Honda and BMW dominate these days.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 1:11 PM
With the exception of LAPD, Harley hasn't earned a major contract is years on the west coast (where the highest amount of police motorcycles is due to weather). Honda and BMW dominate these days.

yeah, your'e right, and that kind of bugs me. i guess i am a bit of an idealist where i like to see americans buying american and i expect to see american government agencies using american products.

JeffM
04-26-2009, 1:15 PM
yeah, your'e right, and that kind of bugs me. i guess i am a bit of an idealist where i like to see americans buying american and i expect to see american government agencies using american products.

American companies need to start producing better products for that to happen.

I'm sure most patrol rifles are US made.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 1:27 PM
American companies need to start producing better products for that to happen.

I agree, but what about Smith & Wesson's M&Ps, or Springfield Armory's XDs /XDMs, or 1911s from any American company? I think those are quality guns that could be issued.

berto
04-26-2009, 1:45 PM
Best tool at the best price.

JeffM
04-26-2009, 2:02 PM
I agree, but what about Smith & Wesson's M&Ps, or Springfield Armory's XDs /XDMs, or 1911s from any American company? I think those are quality guns that could be issued.

XDs are made in Croatia still, unless Springfield had the tooling shipped over here.

I see some 1911s, but most of them are the personal guns of pistol-savvy LEOs who know their strengths/weaknesses. I understand why it would be unwise from a management position to issue them across the board.

M&Ps are what CA parole officers are now required to purchase (IIRC they don't get them issued, but must purchase them). If they turn out be better than Glocks, for a comparable price, then sure, departments should use them.

My point is that the right tool for the job should be used whether it's made here or not. I won't say that there should be no weight given to it, but it should come well after function and cost.

That's just my tax-paying point of view.

nicki
04-26-2009, 2:05 PM
Cops should be allowed to carry the best guns. Now if the administrators and the risk management people would get out of the process, most cops would probably carry 1911's.:43

Getting more serious though, we need to make significant changes in our business and tax climate. It is government policies that have killed our manufacturing base.

Nicki

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 2:31 PM
American companies need to start producing better products for that to happen.

what about Smith & Wessons M&Ps? i think those guns are meant to compete with the ever popular glocks.

Technical Ted
04-26-2009, 2:34 PM
what about Smith & Wessons M&Ps? i think those guns are meant to compete with the ever popular glocks.
Naw, they were designed to try and gain a bigger share of the semi-auto pistol market.

bobfried
04-26-2009, 2:40 PM
what about Smith & Wessons M&Ps? i think those guns are meant to compete with the ever popular glocks.

I carried an HK P2000 for awhile, will be carrying it again in a few months. The Glock is a nice pistol, with a long proven track record, despite the critics.

The S&W M&P might have been "designed to compete with Glock" but what kind of track record or history has it have? If I'm spending $400 per officer for a weapon I will pick the tried and true Glock over some new upstart. Maybe in 20 years the M&P might have something on the Glock, but not right now. The XD's are making some inroads but magazine problems have plagued it from the beginning.

Basically it is what is available and proven, no one should ever be issued something just because it's "Made in America". Nationalism is nice, but when your life is on the line you get what works, not what makes you feel giddy inside.

jpnosworthy
04-26-2009, 2:40 PM
sigs are made in usa but the profits go to the Fatherland! lol. same for canadian made fords. come on canada is a USA by proxy.

Tell that to the people who work in the factories.

dwa
04-26-2009, 2:43 PM
one shouldn't be mad we one doesn't buy American rather when America makes inferior products.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 2:53 PM
one shouldn't be mad we one doesn't buy American rather when America makes inferior products.

good point but are all american made handguns inferior? M&Ps, XDs, 1911s?

yzernie
04-26-2009, 3:07 PM
When my life, the life of my partners or the lives of citizens are on the line I want the best tool available, regardless of cost. If the department issues one brand and I want something better I have to go buy it myself...and I have done just that. My issued piece was not US made and the piece I bought myself and carry every day was not US made. And for you that watch your tax dollars, I returned the issued piece. ;)

Jonathan Doe
04-26-2009, 3:55 PM
good point but are all american made handguns inferior? M&Ps, XDs, 1911s?

Management does not like the idea of "cocked and locked" idea. I never had a good experience with S&W semiautos. I saw a catastrophic failure of a M&P 9mm last week where the barrel was blown in 1/2 just forward of the chamber area while shooting Win SXT ammo. Now I carry Sig P226 primarily and I like it a lot.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 3:59 PM
Management does not like the idea of "cocked and locked" idea. I never had a good experience with S&W semiautos. I saw a catastrophic failure of a M&P 9mm last week where the barrel was blown in 1/2 just forward of the chamber area while shooting Win SXT ammo. Now I carry Sig P226 primarily and I like it a lot.

your'e right about the cocked and locked theory, and thats too bad. M&P 9mm exploded? this that common? has that not happened to glocks?

i trust my S&W semi auto 4506

Quiet
04-26-2009, 4:19 PM
good point but are all american made handguns inferior? M&Ps, XDs, 1911s?

I know S&W restructured and is trying to distance themselves from their past decisions.
But, I'm still biased aganist S&W due to the deal they cut with the Clinton Administration to support gun control in order to get preference for LE/Gov pistol contracts.


Springfield Armory imports all the handguns they market/sell.
The XD & XDm are made in Croatia and the 1911s are made in Brazil.

bluestaterebel
04-26-2009, 4:31 PM
I know S&W restructured and is trying to distance themselves from their past decisions.
But, I'm still biased aganist S&W due to the deal they cut with the Clinton Administration to support gun control in order to get preference for LE/Gov pistol contracts.


Springfield Armory imports all the handguns they market/sell.
The XD & XDm are made in Croatia and the 1911s are made in Brazil.

There has got to be a quality american handgun out there, isnt there?

nobody33
04-26-2009, 4:54 PM
There has got to be a quality american handgun out there, isnt there?

nope.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 9:38 AM
When i came on the dept i was issued a Beretta 92FS an Italian gun. Then the Smith & Wesson 4506 was authorized and i jumped on that and never looked back.

The Beretta is a good gun but it felt better to carry American.

What ever happened to being proud of Made in th USA?

jpnosworthy
04-27-2009, 9:41 AM
What ever happened to being proud of Made in th USA?

Low quality and lack of innovation happened.

fullrearview
04-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Remember issue means taxpayers money. What do you guys think?

I think the most reliable, accurate firearm should be issued. We are issued sig 239 9mm/226 .40/9mm. IMHO these are the most reliable handguns, accurate handguns out there.

a few extra dollars up front will go a long way in maintenance. Our range master went 2 years never cleaning his 226, trying to get a malfunction before he decided to clean his weapon. 2 years, probably over 100,000 rounds, and 0 malfunctions. I know of some kimbers, and xds that have issues after 30 rounds. Not bashing those weapons but I want something that I can beat the poop out of and still function properly.

Thank god we get sigs:thumbsup:

EDIT: our sig frames were made in Germany but I am not sure where the slide is made.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 10:45 AM
Our range master went 2 years never cleaning his 226, trying to get a malfunction before he decided to clean his weapon. 2 years, probably over 100,000 rounds, and 0 malfunctions.

Wow! is that typical of Sigs?

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Low quality and lack of innovation happened.

i guess your'e right. kind of dissappointed about that.

fullrearview
04-27-2009, 10:54 AM
Wow! is that typical of Sigs?

I don't know but he uses it nearly every day! He got bored trying to make it malfunction so he cleaned it. We went 3 weeks in the academy without cleaning them, so that's 900 rounds without issues for me. They did that so they could make sure we knew how to clean the weapon properly. tooth picks and white gloves were in full use!

oddjob
04-27-2009, 1:31 PM
I know of one agency that was issued Springfield 1911 TRP's. They had so many problems with them they switched to H&K USP's. They loved the H&K's. There were a few TRP's that didn't have problems, but as a whole they were not looked upon favorably. As people here know the TRP is an "upper" level handgun, but when its for an agency purchase (bulk) quality goes down.

Isn't S&W owned by a British plumbing company or was it sold?

sickboy774
04-27-2009, 2:31 PM
The Ford cars we drive are made in Canada...

The Sig guns we are issued were made in the USA...


It's not that cut and dry anymore. Our police motorcycles haven't ever been American brands.

+1 Amen!

sgtbuck
04-27-2009, 2:58 PM
I think the most reliable, accurate firearm should be issued. We are issued sig 239 9mm/226 .40/9mm. IMHO these are the most reliable handguns, accurate handguns out there.

a few extra dollars up front will go a long way in maintenance. Our range master went 2 years never cleaning his 226, trying to get a malfunction before he decided to clean his weapon. 2 years, probably over 100,000 rounds, and 0 malfunctions. I know of some kimbers, and xds that have issues after 30 rounds. Not bashing those weapons but I want something that I can beat the poop out of and still function properly.

Thank god we get sigs:thumbsup:

EDIT: our sig frames were made in Germany but I am not sure where the slide is made.


Sounds like we had the same range staff. Our range staff was always trying to see if they could make the Sigs not work right. I carried a Sig for over 15 years in my career. I had P226 9mm and later was issued a P226 .40s&w. I never had a problem and the 9mm even help save my life. Lets face it that is what really counts. Will it work when the SHTF and you need it to. Also I really like the double action first pull then single there after. :thumbsup:

stix213
04-27-2009, 3:10 PM
Since lives are on the line - not just the LEO, I think LEOs shouldn't be restricted to US made arms.

Hopefully lack of sales to US manufacturers will drive them to improve their firearms so that they will be purchased based on being the best instead of simply being made in the same country.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 3:38 PM
Since lives are on the line - not just the LEO, I think LEOs shouldn't be restricted to US made arms.

Hopefully lack of sales to US manufacturers will drive them to improve their firearms so that they will be purchased based on being the best instead of simply being made in the same country.

hopefully

masameet
04-27-2009, 4:26 PM
This might be a rumor. But I've heard from two separate local LEOs in recent months that the State of California will most likely replace the S&W 4006 for both state parks and highway patrol LEOs with, possibly, a Glock.

itchy finger
04-27-2009, 5:10 PM
It's a performance issue. Harley can not complete with the speed or agility of BMW or Honda. We tested them and Harley had to do sooooooo many mods just to reach 100 mph.

itchy finger
04-27-2009, 5:21 PM
I would love to know where you heard that. The current 4006 TSW is just the old 4006 reinvented. My first 4006 never worked, got replaced by a retired 4006, which did not work. Have not had a problem with the TSW, yet, but I am waiting for that. I know University police and State Parks both carry Glocks already, we still have S&W. I wish we would change or at least have the choice to carry something else. I'm all for buying American, but if the product they produce doesn't meet the challenge, then they need to step it up.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 5:34 PM
I would love to know where you heard that. The current 4006 TSW is just the old 4006 reinvented. My first 4006 never worked, got replaced by a retired 4006, which did not work. Have not had a problem with the TSW, yet, but I am waiting for that. I know University police and State Parks both carry Glocks already, we still have S&W. I wish we would change or at least have the choice to carry something else. I'm all for buying American, but if the product they produce doesn't meet the challenge, then they need to step it up.

so if you had your choice of any American handgun, which one would it be?

Quiet
04-27-2009, 6:05 PM
Isn't S&W owned by a British plumbing company or was it sold?

It was owned by the British, but was bought back by the Americans.

When it was owned by the British, S&W made deals with the Clinton Administration to support gun control laws in order to get preference in LE/Gov handgun contracts.
The internal lock on the S&W revolvers was another brain child of the British owners.

The American owners brought about the M&P line of handguns and rifles.

masameet
04-27-2009, 6:39 PM
I would love to know where you heard that. The current 4006 TSW is just the old 4006 reinvented. My first 4006 never worked, got replaced by a retired 4006, which did not work. Have not had a problem with the TSW, yet, but I am waiting for that. I know University police and State Parks both carry Glocks already, we still have S&W. I wish we would change or at least have the choice to carry something else. I'm all for buying American, but if the product they produce doesn't meet the challenge, then they need to step it up.

By two State Parks LEOs, both of whom said they were carrying the S&W 4006.

Had to ask about their service pistols, because last December, when I rode my motorcycle up a local mountain and got to about a mile south of the observatory, a State Parks cop (I'm guessing that was what he was, as his uniform was dark green) yelled at me and pointed back down the way I'd come. Apparently the snow atop the mountain made going all the way up unsafe. In turning around I noticed his handgun looked all black polymer. Don't know much about Glocks but I figured he was carrying one. So when I had a chance to talk to the other two State Park cops, I asked. One said: We're going to Glocks; and the second confirmed the rumor. Have to admit that I forgot to ask them about that Glock-carrying State Parks LEO. lol

I've not viewed the S&W 4006 in person but I've seen it online. And I thought it was a beaut. So much in fact that for a while I flirted with the idea of getting one. But then I read online about how other shooters encountered problems with it and figured I'd try something else, like maybe a Sig. lol Anyway one of the two State Parks cops said if I was interested in the S&W 4006, to wait until later this year or early next year, when the market will probably be flooded with them. Of course I dunno and as I wrote previously, the flooding the market thingee is probably a rumor too.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 7:42 PM
If i were the Chief, i would have my firearms experts test several U.S. made guns, pick the best one and issue those.

I would then give the officers authorization to carry what ever they like so long as they privately purcahse them and qualify with them.

i guess i am still of the mindset, that American Goverment agencies, local, state, or federal should buy American.

Quiet
04-27-2009, 8:16 PM
i guess i am still of the mindset, that American Goverment agencies, local, state, or federal should buy American.

This was the mindset in the USA (LE/Gov/Mil) up until the late-80s/early-90s.
Then the mindset changed to whatever is best no matter where it's made.

US Military still insists that standard issue stuff is made in the USA.
That's why...
... Beretta makes the M-9 & M-9A1 in Maryland.
... FN makes the M-16, M-240, M-249, Mk 16 Mod 0 and Mk 17 Mod 0 in South Carolina.

cousinkix1953
04-27-2009, 9:03 PM
The Ford cars we drive are made in Canada...

The Sig guns we are issued were made in the USA...


It's not that cut and dry anymore. Our police motorcycles haven't ever been American brands.
So are those Beretta M-9s. Opening a factory in Maryland was part of the deal, when the Italians started selling pistols to the Pentagon in 1985...

Gryff
04-27-2009, 9:15 PM
I mean you dont see Americn police departments using foreign made cars right? Usually Crown Vics, Dodge Chargers, Chevy Impalas.

Have you seen the CHP's motorcycles recently?

And a couple of years ago, I was pulled over on I-5 outside of Sacramento by a CHP officer driving a Volvo.

tyrist
04-27-2009, 9:42 PM
Well.....some departments went to the an American built motorcycle....the harley davidson and it has turned out to be a big mistakes because they are so costly to maintain. The BMW bike is the best but BMW wants to lease the bikes and do the maintenance themselves.

oddjob
04-27-2009, 9:45 PM
I also remember my agency handing out Colt Officers Model in 1987 to plain clothes people. They were so bad that Colt sent an armorer to the range. He had a table set up and he spent all day fixing guns....and I mean all day. Bottom line was the liability was so bad our agency went to 9mm Glocks later (.40 S&W didn't exist then). I have talked to the armorers at CHP and more than a few have told me they prefer the Sig system for a general issue sidearm, but the upper management had different thoughts.

I carried a personally owned Colt Gold Cup then switched to a Richard Heine PDP model 1911 Springfield Armory . It has never malfunctioned. I still have it. I got this gun in 1988. I now carry a Colt Commander (alloy frame) for plain clothes/undercover and a S.A. TRP (I know, but mine works like a champ) for raids and uniformed functions.

I have driven numerous vehicles in my 30 yrs as a cop. My current issue Honda Accord is the best car yet in my opinion.

Bottom line is use the best you can buy for the money. The thought of "buy American" is not completely practical now.

dwa
04-27-2009, 10:11 PM
good point but are all american made handguns inferior? M&Ps, XDs, 1911s?

no but one should buy an inferior American gun over a superior foreign gun or the reverse.

bluestaterebel
04-27-2009, 10:26 PM
I have driven numerous vehicles in my 30 yrs as a cop. My current issue Honda Accord is the best car yet in my opinion.

Honda Accord? not for patrol right? Undercover work?

JDay
04-28-2009, 1:08 AM
nope.

Colt is one.

JDay
04-28-2009, 1:12 AM
Since lives are on the line - not just the LEO, I think LEOs shouldn't be restricted to US made arms.

Hopefully lack of sales to US manufacturers will drive them to improve their firearms so that they will be purchased based on being the best instead of simply being made in the same country.

The problem with that thinking though is this. Less sales mean less profits which in turn leads to cutting corners in the manufacturing process to save money which it turn leads to lower quality.

yzernie
04-28-2009, 6:00 AM
At the risk of sounding rude, I don't concern myself with uneducated opinions of what I carry as my duty weapon. After 31+ years in this business I know what is the best and that is what I use.

If I, or any of us, needed to protect someone or their loved ones from immediate serious injury or death and it involved the application of lethal force, wouldn't thay want me (us) to have the best firearm(s) available? Currently (and sadly) the US manufactured firearms do not rate at the top.

bluestaterebel
04-28-2009, 7:18 AM
Are you serious? At the risk of sounding rude, I don't concern myself with uneducated opinions of what I carry as my duty weapon. After 31+ years in this business I know what is the best and that is what I use.


If I, or any of us, needed to protect you or your loved ones from immediate serious injury or death and it involved the application of lethal force, wouldn't you want me (us) to have the best firearm(s) available? Currently (and sadly) the US manufactured firearms do not rate at the top.

Just who are you responding to? you quote stix213. but he is agreeing with you. If you are responding to me you can save me the cop spiel. I do not advocate leos to carry inferior weapons. All i am saying is that i believe taxpayers money should go to the best quality American hand gun for issue. and then officers can buy whatever it is they want from Germany, Austria, France etc.

I am learning here now that the U.S. builds poor quality hand guns and if thats the case then i cant encourage carrying U.S. made guns.

But if youv'e been in the business for 31+ years you must have carried American at some point.

Gryff
04-28-2009, 8:03 AM
There has got to be a quality american handgun out there, isnt there?

Smith & Wesson M&P.

As for the comment about the M&P barrel blowing up...want to see the pics of my Glock 17 that blew up in my daughter's hand? Any gun can malfunction. The issue is whether the failure is due to poor design or manufacturing QA.

Unfortunately, most of the quality American guns are expensive 1911s (I'm not a 1911 fan):

- Wilson
- Nighthawk
- Les Baer
- Ed Brown

The earlier Smith & Wesson semi-autos were also high-quality, but they were never very ergonomic (or accurate IMO).

1911su16b870
04-28-2009, 8:09 AM
Quoting Dennis Tueller, "LEO firearms are like packing parachutes", LEOs deserve to have the best available, and armorers (and officers IMO) need to make sure they work the first time and every time!

nobody33
04-28-2009, 2:43 PM
Colt is one.

A 1911 as an issue gun for every officer is highly impractical. It might be ok for the "gun people" who are cops... but not everyone.

oddjob
04-28-2009, 5:34 PM
Yes......My Accord is for U/C work and surveillance.

This is my 31st year as a LEO and my last (retiring in Dec.) 27 yrs as a rangemaster type dude. Of all the guns I have handled here is my take on a good general issue weapon; H&K USP series. This is due to the external safety and overall reliability (I know H&K service is iffy). #2 on my list are the Sig series.

My feelings are that a dept has to issue a weapon, but should allow the individual officer to carry his/her choice of a handgun within reason.

I will say that my off-duty and sometimes U/C gun is a S&W 640, .38 special. It was made quite a few years ago, carried a lot and it shows. USA gun manufacturers do make fine revolvers. I would not feel under gunned if I had to carry my S&W 625.

razr
04-28-2009, 6:22 PM
Remember issue means taxpayers money. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]


Get real, its a lame excuse. Taxpayers money should go to the producer of the best quality product. Stop sending jobs overseas and demand products to be made here in the states, better. And be done with it.

cousinkix1953
04-28-2009, 7:11 PM
There one advantage of LEOs using some of those imported firearms. It becomes that much harder, for an anti-gun president to sign an executive order which bans the importing of guns. Bush 41' has already banned guns before...

yzernie
04-28-2009, 8:56 PM
I do not advocate leos to carry inferior weapons. All i am saying is that i believe taxpayers money should go to the best quality American hand gun for issue.

I am learning here now that the U.S. builds poor quality hand guns and if thats the case then i cant encourage carrying U.S. made guns.

But if youv'e been in the business for 31+ years you must have carried American at some point.
Unfortunately, the good ol' USA does not make a "best quality hand gun" to be issued. It is discouraging to me that 'less than best' handguns are being produced here in the states. Colt's would be fine with me but IMHO, Colts, or any 1911 based hand gun, are not for everyone. The biggest problem we had and what ultimately got them disapproved was negligent discharges from the cocked and locked...well, supposed to be locked...hammer position. I just wouldn't trust many of these kids with a cocked and locked gun.

Yes, I did carry a USA made gun for many years. I carried a Colt Python from 77 and into the late 80's when we then transitioned to semi autos. I also carried a Colt Combat Commander (yes, cocked and locked!!) as an off duty gun for probably 20 years. I would truly like to buy American again for a duty gun but until there is something that can compete with my side arm that I carry now I'll stick with what I know works.

Some day, probably well after I retire, a US manufacturer will produce something I wish was around when I still active!! :thumbsup:

bluestaterebel
04-28-2009, 9:20 PM
Unfortunately, the good ol' USA does not make a "best quality hand gun" to be issued. It is discouraging to me that 'less than best' handguns are being produced here in the states. Colt's would be fine with me but IMHO, Colts, or any 1911 based hand gun, are not for everyone. The biggest problem we had and what ultimately got them disapproved was negligent discharges from the cocked and locked...well, supposed to be locked...hammer position. I just wouldn't trust many of these kids with a cocked and locked gun.

Yes, I did carry a USA made gun for many years. I carried a Colt Python from 77 and into the late 80's when we then transitioned to semi autos. I also carried a Colt Combat Commander (yes, cocked and locked!!) as an off duty gun for probably 20 years. I would truly like to buy American again for a duty gun but until there is something that can compete with my side arm that I carry now I'll stick with what I know works.

Some day, probably well after I retire, a US manufacturer will produce something I wish was around when I still active!! :thumbsup:


Well said, i'd like to see U.S. hand guns competing with the Glock, Sigs, HKs