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View Full Version : What if I get stopped by a LEO with an AR? Safest plan?


evan69
04-25-2009, 6:00 PM
I have heard many different opinions on this site for how to handle a traffic stop with firearms in the vehicle. Do you announce that you have a gun in the truck bed? When he asks what kind, do you just say that caliber? If he asks to see it, how do you go about making him know it is legal? Should you give him a binder with the flowchart and the DOJ assault weapon guide in it while you are getting to the gun to show him?

What is the absolute SAFEST protocol for handling this situation? I am talking about cooperating without having to be detained somehow. I know you can refuse searches, and give shady answers to "what kind of gun is it" like "there is nothing illegal in the vehicle," but wouldn't the cop get suspicious and try to bring you in for something else? You want him on your side don't you?

Safest protocol anyone?

psssniper
04-25-2009, 6:05 PM
Pull over keep both hands where the officer can see them and as he approaches the car
FLOOR IT
make a run for it dude. The TV news has been a bit boring lately so we need some excitement













Caution: the above is not real advice and should not be followed under any circumstances

evan69
04-25-2009, 6:05 PM
Nice joke, but any serious advice?

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 6:16 PM
Don't volunteer any information. Be very pleasant about it but be comfortably vague. Remember that you aren't doing anything wrong. If he asks if you have any weapons just comfortably say you have nothing illegal in the car. Don't consent to a search and generally stop answering questions if he keeps asking beyond what is necessary to give you a speeding ticket. I prefer something like, "officer, I know you're just doing your job but I'm not really interested in answering any more questions - am I free to go?"

-Gene

evan69
04-25-2009, 6:20 PM
Don't volunteer any information. Be very pleasant about it but be comfortably vague. Remember that you aren't doing anything wrong. If he asks if you have any weapons just comfortably say you have nothing illegal in the car. Don't consent to a search and generally stop answering questions if he keeps asking beyond what is necessary to give you a speeding ticket. I prefer something like, "officer, I know you're just doing your job but I'm not really interested in answering any more questions - am I free to go?"

-Gene

Have you ever done this before? The only reason I ask is that, if I were a cop, I would be suspicious as all hell if somebody gave me an answer like that. If I could do anything at that point to find things out, I would.

It just sounds like a better idea to say that I have a gun in the car because I was going to the range, and to tell him the caliber if he asks what kind it is.

It just sounds like asking for trouble to give that kind of answer.

BigDogatPlay
04-25-2009, 6:22 PM
+1 on Gene's advice.

I presume for the sake of the discussion that the long guns in the truck bed are cased? I also presume that the truck bed is not covered by a shell, tonneau or some other cover. If the LEO can't see what could be identified as firearms in plain view, or see cases that could be articulated from his training and experience to be of a type commonly used to carry firearms, then there isn't much he can do. It becomes the word game as Gene describes.

In the days before I put a shell on my pickup, with windows that are darned near blacked out they are so tinted, I had a toolbox mounted... the kind with a hatch on either side of the bed. It was lockable and I kept it locked at all times... particularly when I was transporting my goods to and from the range. Can't see into it and opening it without my consent requires a warrant, and I ain't giving consent.

ETA: It's not anyone's business if I am lawfully transporting a firearm in my vehicle. If the officer asks me if I am transporting anything illegal or that can hurt him, the answer is no. My weapons aren't illegal and they can't hurt him or anyone else when they aren't loaded. If he specifically asks me if I am carrying I firearm I will say no... because I won't have one on my person.

If you are that worried about it, don't speed. :D

Young Version
04-25-2009, 6:23 PM
Have you ever done this before? The only reason I ask is that, if I were a cop, I would be suspicious as all hell if somebody gave me an answer like that. If I could do anything at that point to find things out, I would.

It just sounds like a better idea to say that I have a gun in the car because I was going to the range, and to tell him the caliber if he asks what kind it is.

It just sounds like asking for trouble to give that kind of answer.

If refusal to incriminate yourself is probable cause for wrongdoing, guess what? You have no protection against self-incrimination.

Exercising a right can never be construed as sufficient suspicion to violate said right.

hkusp9c
04-25-2009, 6:23 PM
I never tell'em that I have firearms in my trunk cuz they never asked me "What's in your trunk?". But I would tell him that I have a registered unloaded firearm inside the trunk if asked.

evan69
04-25-2009, 6:27 PM
I have heard a story of somebody going through a lot of crap just because he told the cop he didn't consent to searches. What can a cop do, if anything, if you do this? I am talking worst case scenario here.

Telperion
04-25-2009, 6:28 PM
You asked for the "safest protocol" and Gene gave it to you. If you admit to having a firearm in the car, California law says the officer can check to see if it is unloaded. I submit it is much better to avoid any search of your property.

but wouldn't the cop get suspicious and try to bring you in for something else? You want him on your side don't you?
He can be suspicious, but unless it rises to the level of probable cause or you give him consent, he cannot search.

The cop is not on your side, he is not your friend, trying to gain his favor by waiving your rights does not help you.

evan69
04-25-2009, 6:31 PM
You asked for the "safest protocol" and Gene gave it to you. If you admit to having a firearm in the car, California law says the officer can check to see if it is unloaded. I submit it is much better to avoid any search of your property.


He can be suspicious, but unless it rises to the level of probable cause or you give him consent, he cannot search.

The cop is not on your side, he is not your friend, trying to gain his favor by waiving your rights does not help you.

Alright. Sorry if I have been reluctant, it's just, I have been told my entire life to declare any firearms you have on you if pulled over. I'm brainwashed :eek:

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 6:32 PM
If you say, "I don't consent to any searches" you're hosed. If you play the verbal game nonchalantly you are not giving the guy anything he can articulate to create the suspicion he needs to take it further than a ticket or whatever other reason he stopped you for.

You just have to stop worrying that this cop is anything more than the guy on the Dell customer service line.

-Gene

TOMBSTONE
04-25-2009, 6:35 PM
Never give out unnecessary information to any law enforcement official ,that way it doesn't raise suspicion or give probable cause. Then you will be on your merry way WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS...

dmckean44
04-25-2009, 6:38 PM
I've been pulled over for speeding several times in my life and I've never even been asked if I'm carrying any weapons. I think you're worried too much about a situation that probably won't happen.

Dick Thomas
04-25-2009, 6:45 PM
I will try and answer your questions and give some honest advice relative to being stopped by a LEO while you have a gun in the car with you. By way of background, let me state that I am a retired Police Officer with a bit over 35 years experience, with a large, well known Police Department in Southern California. During my career, I worked primarily Patrol, Traffic and Detectives. To begin with, your question leaves something out. Why were you stopped? A traffic violation or something more serious? If you are, as the majority of the folks that are members of this site, an honest hard working guy, then you have nothing to worry about. If you are LEGALLY in possession of and transporting an unloaded firearm, and were stopped for a traffic infraction, I see no reason for the fact that you have a gun in your vehicle to come up. I have been reading the comments posted by some of the folks on this site, and can honestly say that much of it comes out as nothing more than paranoia. Let me state for the record that most cops in California could care less if you are in legal possession of a firearm, as long as they do not perceive it as a threat. If it is unloaded and locked in the trunk as required by California law, don’t bring it up. To be frank, I have always found it a bit amusing when someone tells me that if they were ever stopped for a traffic infraction the first thing they would do is yell out to the Officer that they are armed, (presuming legally) as a way of avoiding an armed confrontation of some sort. Doing that is just plain silly/stupid/unnecessary, and a sure way to escalate a simple traffic stop into something much more.

Let the Officer explain to you why you were stopped, and then deal with the issue at hand. Don’t make it more than it is. If you are a “good guy”, and act as such I am sure that the Officer will react in a similar manner. If you are an a--h---- and act as such I suspect that is exactly how you will be treated.

My honest advise - - don’t play word games and talk in Clintonism, trying to argue the definition of the word “it”. Be honest, and deal with the issue at hand.

evan69
04-25-2009, 6:58 PM
I will try and answer your questions and give some honest advice relative to being stopped by a LEO while you have a gun in the car with you. By way of background, let me state that I am a retired Police Officer with a bit over 35 years experience, with a large, well known Police Department in Southern California. During my career, I worked primarily Patrol, Traffic and Detectives. To begin with, your question leaves something out. Why were you stopped? A traffic violation or something more serious? If you are, as the majority of the folks that are members of this site, an honest hard working guy, then you have nothing to worry about. If you are LEGALLY in possession of and transporting an unloaded firearm, and were stopped for a traffic infraction, I see no reason for the fact that you have a gun in your vehicle to come up. I have been reading the comments posted by some of the folks on this site, and can honestly say that much of it comes out as nothing more than paranoia. Let me state for the record that most cops in California could care less if you are in legal possession of a firearm, as long as they do not perceive it as a threat. If it is unloaded and locked in the truck as required by California, don’t bring it up. To be frank, I have always found it a bit amusing when someone tells me that if they were ever stopped for a traffic infraction the first thing they would do is yell out to the Officer that they are armed, (presuming legally) as a way of avoiding an armed confrontation of some sort. Doing that is just plain silly/stupid/unnecessary, and a sure way to escalate a simple traffic stop into something much more.

Let the Officer explain to you why you were stopped, and then deal with the issue at hand. Don’t make it more that it is. If you are a “good guy”, and act as such I am sure that the Officer will react in a similar manner. If you are an a--h---- and act as such I suspect that is exactly how you will be treated.

My honest advise - - don’t play word games and talk in Clintonism, trying to argue the definition of the word “it”. Be honest, and deal with the issue at hand.

I was talking about a minor traffic stop, and thank you for clarifying everything.

wash
04-25-2009, 6:58 PM
An asian friend of mine used to drive an old red Acura Integra and he would speed. He was ticketed often. Once he changed to a white Mercedes, his tickets stopped.

To some cops asian in a red Integra = ricer punk, asian in a white Mercedes = young professional.

It helps a lot if you don't violate traffic laws also.

If you do get pulled over, turn off your radio. Also, try not to have jail house tattoos, backwards baseball hats, doo-rags, a grille or any clothing with firearms/racist/drug/controversial designs or logos. Don't have a case, ammo, targets, a range bag, hearing protection, spotting scope or a chronograph in plain sight.

Hopefully you will be so anonymous that the officer won't even remember you if you try to contest the ticket in court and they will never even ask for consent to search.

bohoki
04-25-2009, 7:01 PM
yxE_oQBwrdU

Nanook
04-25-2009, 8:18 PM
If you say, "I don't consent to any searches" you're hosed.

I'm sure you meant this in the context of as soon as the cop approaches your vehicle you shout this out nervously before he gets a word out...? That would look odd for sure. But I have heard here many times that this is the proper response to, "Do you mind if I take a peek in your car?" to avoid accidental consent.

I can't wait to try the response I read about here in the story of the lawyer driver who handed the cop his DL, proof of insurance and business card to "put the cop on notice." Every time he was asked a question that didn't directly apply to the "California stop" he was pulled over for, the answer was, "Not pertinent."

And I can't remember any stop where I was asked if I had any guns in the car, but then again I don't have a NRA sticker on my bumper as much as I'd like to. I just don't look like the type to be packing.

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 8:24 PM
I'm sure you meant this in the context of as soon as the cop approaches your vehicle you shout this out nervously before he gets a word out...? That would look odd for sure. But I have heard here many times that this is the proper response to, "Do you mind if I take a peek in your car?" to avoid accidental consent.


Exactly correct. Don't bring up not consenting until asked. If asked for a search you can be very forthright that you do not consent to a search.

My concern is that a lot of folks who listen to what is written here on CGN don't understand that the key to a successful police encounter is to be respectful and pleasant without falling for the intentional leading questions or persuasion tactics. My favorite is "do you know how fast you were going?" I always respond, "yes :D." It's kind of like a deposition where you instead need to smile.

-Gene

CHS
04-25-2009, 9:07 PM
Just do what I do.

Lie.

Police officer: Any firearms in the vehicle?
Me: No sir.

Lying to a cop IS NOT against the law nor grounds for PC.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
04-25-2009, 9:08 PM
This is slightly off topic, but, strangely, for about 18 months when I had a demilled grenade hanging from my rear-view mirror, I didn't get pulled over at all.

I no longer have a demilled grenade hanging from my rear-view mirror. This is because off-roading or other rough conditions like railroad tracks or something would cause the grenade to swing up and whack the underside of the mirror. It's scratched up now on that bottom edge.

I've gotten pulled over a handful of times since I've removed it. :shrug:

Doheny
04-25-2009, 9:54 PM
Lying to a cop IS NOT against the law nor grounds for PC.

California Vehicle Code section 31:

31. No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information
to a peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the
provisions of this code when such person knows that the information
is false.

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 9:58 PM
California Vehicle Code section 31:

31. No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information
to a peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the
provisions of this code when such person knows that the information
is false.

Inquiring about firearms is not "in the performance of his duties under the provisions of" the Vehicle Code.

-Gene

oaklander
04-25-2009, 10:00 PM
I've never been asked about guns. But I also tend to not get stopped! When I've been stopped, I've gone out of my way to be polite.

Like has been said before, a lot of how you get treated depends on your demeanor.

EDIT: that being said - try really hard not to say anything stupid. I like Gene's answer to the "how fast were you going" question. I always say "I don't know officer, I had my eyes on the road."

LOL

CHS
04-25-2009, 10:07 PM
This is slightly off topic, but, strangely, for about 18 months when I had a demilled grenade hanging from my rear-view mirror, I didn't get pulled over at all.

I no longer have a demilled grenade hanging from my rear-view mirror.

I thought you were going to say you replaced it with a live one :)

DDT
04-25-2009, 10:08 PM
I thought you were going to say you replaced it with a live one :)

He did for a while but it was hanging by the pin and every time he went over a bump it got a little too exciting.

IrishJoe3
04-25-2009, 10:19 PM
Inquiring about firearms is not "in the performance of his duties under the provisions of" the Vehicle Code.

-Gene

Since when?

bohoki
04-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Since when?

they pulled you over for a trafic infraction not how many dead babies you have in the trunk

mister dize
04-25-2009, 10:35 PM
they pulled you over for a trafic infraction not how many dead babies you have in the trunk

/thread

IrishJoe3
04-25-2009, 10:40 PM
they pulled you over for a trafic infraction not how many dead babies you have in the trunk

Oh, good to know. I didn't realize cops were strictly limited to traffic infractions and traffic infractions alone.... :rolleyes: Ever heard of a "traffic stop" for an infraction that yields a dope haul? Same concept.

ZRX61
04-25-2009, 11:04 PM
I got pulled over once for speeding on my (then) wifes KZ1000. I was by myself. We had the following conversation:
Is this your bike?
No, it belongs to my wife
Is she with you?
......

lol

bill104
04-25-2009, 11:16 PM
The best Advise I could give would be to Make sure your car/truck is in good running order, then obay traffic laws, then you won't ever have to worry about being pulled over.

DDT
04-25-2009, 11:18 PM
I got pulled over once for speeding on my (then) wifes KZ1000. I was by myself. We had the following conversation:
Is this your bike?
No, it belongs to my wife
Is she with you?
......

lol

I hope you laughed uncontrollably until he slinked (slunk) back to his car and waved you on.

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 11:20 PM
Since when?

Since the provisions of the Penal Code are where the prohibitions and restrictions on firearms are located.

-Gene

bwiese
04-25-2009, 11:34 PM
It helps to see The Big Picture...
- don't have visible weapons containers;
- don't commit traffic infractions while travelling with arms;
- no cracked winshields or expired tags;
- nice demeanor, nondirtbag appearance.

A variety of OLL incidents - fortunately resolved - typically involve males under 26-27 year olds. Tatted kiddies in T-shirts and lowered Hondas are much more likely 'bait' for 'traffic stop drama' than a regularly-dressed dude in a washed sedan.

Whether it's right or not, it is about appearance which can trigger "first contact".

I've been pulled over for several (trivial traffic) violations while sitting on a serious pile of serious (legal) hardware & ammo - and these turned into "no cites" and no weapons drama. The question of guns never arose because of my demeanor, haircut, Rolex, dress (style and condition), clean truck, and perhaps even the classical music on the CD/radio.

In addition, during the initial pull-over I acknowledge with hand signals where I'm gonna pull over (in case traffic/roadside parking makes for difficulties) - and turn on cabin lighting, and place both hands on dash, fingers splayed, as officer walks up. If cop asks to see my license, I tell him, "my wallet is in my right pocket, I will use my right hand to remove it but I need to remove my seatbelt first to get better access" and do this with my left hand still on dash. By then the situation is defused and defaults to trivialities.

Like Gene says, don't fight battles you don't need to fight because you don't let them get to that point.

q2on
04-25-2009, 11:43 PM
Great video about dealing with the police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

As that video points out, lying to the police (or even telling the truth) is never a good idea. If for some reason your traffic stop later becomes entangled in a criminal investigation (perhaps by no fault of your own), anything you said to the police, especially a lie but even the truth, can be used against you.

As many others have pointed out... do not talk to the police! Don't lie and say you have no weapons and don't tell the truth and say that you do. Don't talk!

M. Sage
04-25-2009, 11:44 PM
But I would tell him that I have a registered unloaded firearm inside the trunk if asked.

You realize that 12031 authorizes a peace officer to force you to open your trunk and allow him to inspect your firearms at that point (despite the 4A), right?

wildhawker
04-25-2009, 11:52 PM
So, to recap- stay legal, wax regularly, use a comb, smile often and wear a Rolex (a knock-off should suffice; keep one in your center console for such an occasion). :p

It helps to see The Big Picture...
- don't have visible weapons containers;
- don't commit traffic infractions while travelling with arms;
- no cracked winshields or expired tags;
- nice demeanor, nondirtbag appearance.

A variety of OLL incidents - fortunately resolved - typically involve males under 26-27 year olds. Tatted kiddies in T-shirts and lowered Hondas are much more likely 'bait' for 'traffic stop drama' than a regularly-dressed dude in a washed sedan.

Whether it's right or not, it is about appearance which can trigger "first contact".

I've been pulled over for several (trivial traffic) violations while sitting on a serious pile of serious (legal) hardware & ammo - and these turned into "no cites" and no weapons drama. The question of guns never arose because of my demeanor, haircut, Rolex, dress (style and condition), clean truck, and perhaps even the classical music on the CD/radio.

In addition, during the initial pull-over I acknowledge with hand signals where I'm gonna pull over (in case traffic/roadside parking makes for difficulties) - and turn on cabin lighting, and place both hands on dash, fingers splayed, as officer walks up. If cop asks to see my license, I tell him, "my wallet is in my right pocket, I will use my right hand to remove it but I need to remove my seatbelt first to get better access" and do this with my left hand still on dash. By then the situation is defused and defaults to trivialities.

Like Gene says, don't fight battles you don't need to fight because you don't let them get to that point.

wildhawker
04-25-2009, 11:56 PM
I got pulled over once for speeding on my (then) wifes KZ1000. I was by myself. We had the following conversation:
Is this your bike?
No, it belongs to my wife
Is she with you?
......

lol

"Shoot, officer, good eye! Must have lost her a few blocks ago with that last wheelie. It was either that or the impromptu drag race with the R1..."

yellowfin
04-26-2009, 12:23 AM
Check your headlights and tail lights every couple weeks so you don't have to wonder.

Dr. Flesh Bot
04-26-2009, 1:14 AM
So, to recap- stay legal, wax regularly, use a comb, smile often and wear a Rolex (a knock-off should suffice; keep one in your center console for such an occasion). :p

Ha, it seems like if you wanted to avoid acting suspicious, making sudden movements like reaching in to your center console at the first sign of a police officer might not be the best plan.

:smartass:

Wild Squid
04-26-2009, 3:31 AM
First of all, just don't have anything visible in the cabin of your vehicle that says you may have a firearm. That alone gives the cop a good enough reason the haul you out of your comfortable drivers seat to face down on the pavement with handcuffs on while he searches your car. Without anything visible, he would have to get a search warrant, and this rarely happens. But, if the stop is just a normal traffic stop, and the cop is trying to drum up something stupid out of your mouth, like "Do you have any firearms or narcotics?", then just say no even if you do have guns locked in the trunk. It is not against the law to lie to a police officer, just like how they can lie to you any which way they want too. However it is against the law to lie about whether you need corrective lens or not and if you are wearing them, as that pertains to a traffic violation and is in his realm of jurisdiction. But like others who also said in this thread, just act calm and normal. If they nonchalantly try to get you to incriminate yourself, you don't even have to tell them you have a legal gun in your trunk, that is none of their business. They might as well ask whether you're wearing boxers or briefs. Don't assume a police officer is God or something, in the end they are just human beings like all of us and talking to them normally like you would any stranger is the best way to act during a stop. Also, if cops deem you to look like a punk or dreg of society, they love to ask "Mind if I have a look around?". This is their way of putting you at ease so they can then take you out of your vehicle, put you face down, and search your car. You don't think you gave them permission to search your car, but you just did. They always ask very nicely and with a smile, and then turn into all business when you say yes. Be careful of this. This happened to me once when I was 18 and driving a souped up Mustang GT but had nothing illegal nor did anything illegal, but nevertheless was put face down, so you can understand my wary-ness of surrendering my rights by being tricked. I'd also read up real good on ACLU's website. They may not be supportive of the 2A, but they do have good info on how to protect yourself from a police officer looking for trouble.

mofugly13
04-26-2009, 8:28 AM
I have been asked if I had any firearms in my vehicle by an LEO. And I hadn't been puled over for anything. I drove to Ocean Beach at about 10:30 one night and parked my K5 Blazer in a parking spot and was just chilling out. A Park Policeman stopped behind my vehicle and came to my drivers side window and asked me what I was doing there. I explained that I had had a fight with the GF and came down to the beach to cool off for a while. Then he asks if I have any firearms on board. I told him the truth, no. He then tells me that he asked because of the CRPA and NRA stickers on the back of my vehicle. I said something like "Um, Ok, well I still don't have any firearms in my vehicle." I was nothing but polite the whole time, then he told me to take it easy,and he moved on.

So, what if I had had firearms, legally locked and stored, in my vehicle? This part of Ocean Beach, I believe is part of the Golden Gate national Recreation Area, as is all of Golden Gate Park, and therefore, Federal Property, and the LEO a Federal Officer. Does any of this make any difference as to what the legal repurcussions could be?

SKSer
04-26-2009, 9:34 AM
I was reading a thread like this some time ago and in that thread they showed a you tube video on how not to consent to a search and basically it was this:
1. Answer the cops questions about the issue at hand and get your ticket.
2. If the cop asks you if he can search your car for any reason (99% of the time they wont for a traffic stop) you say "I have nothing illegal in the car, and may I please go now".
3. If you ever watch cops when they search a car they have to have consent and everyone assumes they have to say yes so they do. So in this video the the cop says "so if you have nothing illegal then you dont mind if I search it", and the motorist just says "can I go now" then the cop asks for him to step out of the vehicle and heres the key, The motorist rolls up the window, removes his keys from the ignition, steps out of the car, locks the doors, and puts his keys in his pockets. The cop procedes to grill the motorist and the motorist keeps saying "can I go now, I dont see any reason further for you to hold me here" and eventually the cop lets him go with no search.
Now I have actually seen this happen in reality on an episode of "cops" and this motorist did everything down to a "t" to the point of being out of the car with the windows up and the doors locked. The cop was getting pissed at him not consenting to a search, so the cop pulled this number he said "ok sit down on the curb". Then the cop said "I am going to call a K-9 unit in to determine if there is any drugs in your vehicle and if he determines that there is then we can search your vehicle", the motorist was shocked and started sweating profusely and finally cracked and gave in and allowed the search which netted some pot.
what we dont know is was the cop bluffing
and more importantly this guy was hiding illegal drugs.
I dont know if K-9's can smell out firearms and if they can and yours is legally configured on an OLL then you are still within the law.

if you want to have some good paperwork to back you up, and overkill the cal compliance then get a Stag-15 so that way you can keep a copy of the ca DOJ letter that specifically states that the Stag-15 is legal to own in california with a copy of the AW flow chart, and lock the mag in with the nut and thread lock instead of a bullet button ( personally believe the BB is legal, but right on the line) and just deal with loading from the top.

demnogis
04-26-2009, 9:56 AM
I believe you're talking about the Flex Your Rights videos SKSer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Maestro Pistolero
04-26-2009, 10:56 AM
My brother is an LT in a major So Cal Dept. I ask him how best to refuse a search, if ask:

Officer: Mind if I look around, (take a look, search your trunk , etc)

Me: I'd rather you didn't

Officer: Why not, are you hiding something?

Me: With all due respect, sir, for the same reason you wouldn't want me coming to our house and rummaging through your personal belongings.


And then shut up.

Bizcuits
04-26-2009, 11:08 AM
Most cops are taught the basic 8 step form of contacting a person, obviously not all steps are used.

1) Greeting
2) ID yourself / agency
3) Reason for stop
4) Ask for justification
5) Ask for identification
6) Ask additional informatiom
7) Separate for decision
8) Deliver decision/conclusion

SKSer
04-26-2009, 11:11 AM
I believe you're talking about the Flex Your Rights videos SKSer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


thats it, thanks!

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 11:17 AM
You could play all of the verbal judo games that Urbania requires or you could just move to a rural area where all of the cops aren't so "Joe Friday" about everyone they stop. I don't exactly live in Modesto, but I do live in a community where all of my neighbors are in to shooting and fishing. And so far, the cops have been pretty friendly also.

fullrearview
04-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Pull over keep both hands where the officer can see them and as he approaches the car
FLOOR IT
make a run for it dude. The TV news has been a bit boring lately so we need some excitement





Caution: the above is not real advice and should not be followed under any circumstances

haha...

I got to listen to a 10851 on the radio yesterday...started in So Sac and ended on old Placerville in Rancho... spike strip led to him crashing into a tree!:thumbsup:

Doheny
04-26-2009, 11:23 AM
You could play all of the verbal judo games that Urbania requires or you could just move to a rural area...

Yeah, but you'd have to marry your sister, lose some teeth and get rid of your shoes!

:rofl2:

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 11:26 AM
Yeah, but you'd have to marry your sister, lose some teeth and get rid of your shoes!

:rofl2:

Naw, that's only if you move to Arkansas.

Mazilla
04-26-2009, 11:30 AM
Naw, that's only if you move to Arkansas.

Modesto is close enough. ;):p

on the topic of reaching into your center console as the officer approaches, I am always in my center console or glove box before the cop can get to my door. They seem to appreciate it when I have all my paperwork ready before they have the chance to ask for it. I have also told plenty of cops NO when they ask to search. Nothing more nothing less, and I'lll never give an officer consent again, it's a major PITA picking up all the crap they pull out of everywhere and nicely leave thrown all over the car.

Roadrunner
04-26-2009, 11:42 AM
Modesto is close enough. ;):p

Y'all are just jealous because I found God's country. :thumbsup:

M. Sage
04-26-2009, 12:01 PM
First of all, just don't have anything visible in the cabin of your vehicle that says you may have a firearm. That alone gives the cop a good enough reason the haul you out of your comfortable drivers seat to face down on the pavement with handcuffs on while he searches your car.

No. It might give him grounds for a Terry search of your vehicle, but that's only (supposed to be) for officer safety and only includes what's within the immediate reach of people inside the vehicle. Although it does also "allow" the officer to violate the 4A by "inspecting" your firearms to make sure they're not loaded in violation of 12031.

HowardW56
04-26-2009, 1:44 PM
Have you ever done this before? The only reason I ask is that, if I were a cop, I would be suspicious as all hell if somebody gave me an answer like that. If I could do anything at that point to find things out, I would.

It just sounds like a better idea to say that I have a gun in the car because I was going to the range, and to tell him the caliber if he asks what kind it is.

It just sounds like asking for trouble to give that kind of answer.

If you want to surrender your rights and give a police officer a reason to search you and your car, keep talking and say whatever you want...

JDay
04-26-2009, 3:26 PM
If it is unloaded and locked in the trunk as required by California law, don’t bring it up.

The only mention of having your firearms locked up during transport in CA law is in regards to "Assault Weapons" and "Handguns". Nowhere in the law is there a requirement for any firearms to be in the trunk.

ETA: You can legally transport an unloaded handgun in plain sight in your vehicle.

Dick Thomas
04-26-2009, 4:42 PM
J DAY - - SEE the following. I do not agree with your comments.

DT


12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.

This section was specifically written for vehicles that do not have a trunk - - ie SUV's etc. If a vehicle has a trunk then the gun should be in the trunk. We can split hairs if you want, but I suspect a case would be filed if a gun was not in the trunk of a vehicle that had a trunk. In any case why create an issue - - use the trunk if you can.[/I]

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

markw
04-26-2009, 5:01 PM
J DAY - - SEE the following. I just do not agree with your comments.

DT

"The only mention of having your firearms locked up during transport in CA law is in regards to "Assault Weapons" and "Handguns". Nowhere in the law is there a requirement for any firearms to be in the trunk." J DAY


12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.


It doesn't require them to be locked in the trunk.

or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

I've only got one vehicle with a trunk.

JDay
04-26-2009, 5:14 PM
J DAY - - SEE the following. I do not agree with your comments.

DT


12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.

This section was specifically written for vehicles that do not have a trunk - - ie SUV's etc. If a vehicle has a trunk then the gun should be in the trunk. We can split hairs if you want, but I suspect a case would be filed if a gun was not in the trunk of a vehicle that had a trunk. In any case why create an issue - - use the trunk if you can.[/I]

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

Locked container only applies when being transported concealed without a CCW.

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf