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JoeTheShooter
04-24-2009, 12:28 PM
Just curious where would be a good place to post a bunch of noobie questions without being harassed, insulted, integrity questioned, join date pointed out repeatedly, accused of being a media plant, accused of being a communist infiltrator spy, without being told to use the search function, without anything other than honest friendly responses?

As I've read and thought about things, I realize there's way more about guns and ammo and hunting and shooting etc that I don't know that I do. So, what better place to seek some knowledge?

Thanks

glock_this
04-24-2009, 12:33 PM
You have found the right forums as there are a lot of people with a lot of knowledge here no doubt. no worries about those guys that will call you out in some sly way to make you feel dumb.. just part of the game and is bound to happen. you will get more useful info than BS jabs :) just post the questions in the right threads (ie., don't ask a rifle question in handguns) and you should get a legit answer.

I would advise maybe you try the "search" function first as it has likely been asked before BUT you might quickly find the search function is.. uh.. well.. questionable with results on a good day

JoeTheShooter
04-24-2009, 1:54 PM
Thanks. I guess sometimes people don't like to try search because reading the answer in search seems impersonal and doesn't spark conversation. Personally, I do use search, but sometimes the threads are so big, the answer is buried or incomplete. Also, I have a chain of questions, and maybe by seeing them all at once people will think of other suggestions or information that would be helpful.

NoNOS67
04-24-2009, 2:01 PM
I hear ya. The vast majority of people on here are very helpful, but unfortunately there are those few that will have something negative to say no matter what. Are you new to shooting in general, or looking to learn more about something specific?

JoeTheShooter
04-24-2009, 3:02 PM
I've been hunting and shooting since my youth, but I have never gotten to the point of obsession with it - i.e., where you can quote volumes of highly specific technical data (like people get with cars, or computer builders, or computer gamers, etc etc). Growing up it was just part of life, now its more of a hobby, and something I'd like to get more into in several aspects...

armygunsmith
04-24-2009, 3:09 PM
Welcome. You're off to a good start. :thumbsup:

NoNOS67
04-24-2009, 4:21 PM
I've been hunting and shooting since my youth, but I have never gotten to the point of obsession with it - i.e., where you can quote volumes of highly specific technical data (like people get with cars, or computer builders, or computer gamers, etc etc). Growing up it was just part of life, now its more of a hobby, and something I'd like to get more into in several aspects...

Well there's certainly a wealth of knowledge to be found here. Some of the guys on here really, and I mean REALLY know their stuff! What kind of questions do you have? Maybe we can get you pointed in the right direction...

Steyrlp10
04-24-2009, 4:25 PM
Howdy and welcome.

Maltese Falcon
04-24-2009, 4:26 PM
The CalGuns search is kinda wimpy.. use this one.

http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=018149931542195181678:pzxbzjzh1zk

97F1504RAD
04-24-2009, 5:13 PM
Just curious where would be a good place to post a bunch of noobie questions without being harassed, insulted, integrity questioned, join date pointed out repeatedly, accused of being a media plant, accused of being a communist infiltrator spy, without being told to use the search function, without anything other than honest friendly responses?

As I've read and thought about things, I realize there's way more about guns and ammo and hunting and shooting etc that I don't know that I do. So, what better place to seek some knowledge?

Thanks

I was new not long ago and still consider myself to be new, and I felt that same way so what i did was spend countless hours searching and reading all I could then when i had questions I posted and let all of the regulars know that I had already read and searched but was still unsure of a few things and needed some answers. Even now I am still learning.

The sad truth is no matter what forums you go to these types of things happen. Some here seem to be a bit rude about that but you just have to deal with it and ignore them i say. I have seen that most folks here are very willing to help but you yourself have to put the effort in first.

Also make sure your questions go in the correct forum that will go a long way to prevent the things your worried about.

Saigon1965
04-24-2009, 6:08 PM
Welcome to the forum - You have to understand how often we see the very same questions being ask over and over - Some of us wear the tin foil hat because we do have agents with DOJ and all the other agencies hanging out here amongst us -

Like Maltese said - Use the Google search - Much better until the admin can get our search here squared away -

Reading is your friend - I can guarantee whatever your questions are - They've been addressed and answered quite a few times over -

So pull up a chair and enjoy -

Turbinator
04-24-2009, 10:41 PM
You want to start by posting your first set of questions here first?

Turby

JoeTheShooter
04-25-2009, 8:30 AM
You want to start by posting your first set of questions here first?

Turby

You want to start by posting your first set of questions here first?

Turby

Ok, in no particular order, here comes the brain dump....

1) On the issue of semi-automatic pistols and magazine capacity, I do not understand why certain pistols for sale in gun shops are marked "law enforcement only"? If it's ONLY the magazine capacity, then why can't we use a 10-round only magazine in those pistols?

2) Are there any rifles for sale in gun shops marked "law enforcement only"

3) On the issue of building your own ar-15, I have read the assault weapons ban. I don't see how an ar-15 with a pistol grip is made legal just because of a "bullet button" - It's still a detachable magazine, it just takes longer to detach it. I see these guns for sale, and people whipping these guns out at ranges, and I keep thinking that one day the DOJ is going to just arrest and confiscate all these things. Question: Is there an actual law or regulation or decision published that specifically states these are ok? (ie not what a handful of people have talked about with others who claim they talked to a DOJ representative in the field)

4) For these people who have "built" their own ar-15, with all of the evil features, but including a bulllet button - seriously, what makes these guns any different than their counterpart in a non-aw ban state? Simply the button? That's IT? So, if that's true, then if someday the outrageous and stupid california ban on aw is lifted, all these people have to do is take out the button? So the only difference will be they drilled a hole in their lower etc?

5) Why do people post pictures of their guns, their ammo, etc. on an open public forum which has no privacy? The last thing in the world I would think to do is post pictures which could easily, through a subpoena to calguns and ip tracing, and forensics, and word usage study etc - easily be used to track someone down.

6) The ban on high-capacity magazines supposedly left it ok if you had high-capacity magazines pre-dating the ban. Ok, so how can that possibly be enforced? For example, a long long long time ago my father bought an early edition ruger mini-14, with 30-round curved magazines. There are 10 of those magazines in all. Hypothetically, if he gave me his guns and accessories when I was young, and so in my closet I have a box of these magazines, what can I and can't I do with them? Not a single one has a serial number or identifiable marking. Ok, so what on earth am I supposed to do with these things? (a) does their purchase by my father in the late 1960's and early 1970's make them "pre-ban" or legal? (b) does my father's hypothetical giving them to me in the 1970's have any effect on them being legal or not? (c) if these are legal, could I use them? (d) how on god's green earth am I supposed to "prove" these are legal if it ever becomes a problem.

7) If someone has a type 01/02 Dealer FFL, does that encompass a curio&relic type license? I get the feeling you don't need a C&R license if you have a full FFL.

8) I know that there is a FFL database, but is there a more useful and user friendly list of all FFL in the country? For example, is there a database list that could be imported into a contacts database for generating mass mailings to the FFL people?

9) In the State of California political system, (a) are they any pro-gun democrats? (b) are there any anti-gun republicans? Is this information readily available somewhere or do I have to call all of them?

10) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all firearms manufacturers in the United States?

11) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all ammunition manufacturers in the United States?

12) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all online firearms dealers?

13) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all online ammunition dealers?

14) In terms of storing ammunition, what are the opinions out there on dumping ammo out of its commercial packaging and just storing it loosely in a big green ammo container? For example, 50 boxes of 20 rounds each of .223 takes up a LOT more space than one ammo can with 1000 loose rounds.
Does storing ammo loosely in a big can cause any damage to the ammo? Present any dangers? Damage the brass? etc. basically, I can't figure out why I waste so much space with all these boxes of commercially packaged ammo, when it would seem to make so much more sense to store is in bulk cans. I mean, if I am picking up ammo on the way to a hunt or a shoot then I like the little 20 or 40 or 50 round boxes, they are easier to carry etc. But, in terms of home storage, why waste all that space storing 50 boxes of each caliber when it could be one ammo can for each caliber, and keep one plastic 50-round box for packing lite on a trip etc?

15) Honestly, so much of the ammunition product on the shelves seem, in my view, to be 90% marketing and 10% ballistic truth. I can't tell you how many guys I have seen show up to a shoot with "match" grade ammunition, and the seriously treat this stuff like it is magic. But, many times I watch them shoot, and they still suck. Meanwhile, personally, I have seen very very little difference statistically in my own shooting. For example, with one of my hunting rifles, I have been able to shoot 3" groups at 300 yards with regular ole ammo, and with match ammo, 3" groups at 300 yards. Now, I fully understand the possibility that I am somehow not in touch with the moon and tides and subspherical magnetic pull that I am not taking into account on my retical (which is a cross, call me old school if you like). So, maybe it's that I'm not a movie style sniper genius. But, seriously, I feel pretty damn good about shooting 3" groups at 300 yards. So, is it hype, or real, or what? Does COMMERCIAL (not reload) ammunition really truly make that much of a difference in your accuracy? (I know reload does, at least for me, as I have been able to change 18" groupings to 2" groupings and vice versa simply by adjusting my reload recipe and technique.

16) Is it possible for a right hand dominant person to become a marksman shooting left handed? Other than "practice" what is the best way to go about increasing pistol and rifle accuracy with your non-dominant hand?

17) Do you aim with eyes both open or one eye closed? What about when shooting with pistol? Rifle without scope? Rifle with scope?

18) On the issue of semi-auto pistol vs. revolver - for home defense, why would one choose a semi-auto over a revolver? I prefer a revolver by the bed, as they don't jam, the slides doesnt have to be racked, and 6-shots in a revolver is 1-less than a 1911 .45 so big deal on the capacity issue. My best semi-auto pistols still have malfunctions. Pull the slide, case gets jammed. Lock back the slide, improper casing ejection from barrel, etc. Fire a round, improper feed of next round into barrel. These things are "rare" in the sense of maybe out of 5 days shooting it happens 1 or 2 times, but still, if that 1 or 2 times is when you get woken up to an armed burglar about to kill you or your family, why chance it?

19) Am I the only one out there who thinks public shooting ranges are a nightmare? I couldn't begin to tell you the number of stupid things I've seen at public ranges before I just stopped going to them altogether.
a) people who don't know how to shoot shooting my target
b) people waving around loaded guns
c) people putting on a huge show, talking to loud, mouthing off about all types of things that make them sound ignorant, blasting off really loud rounds repeatedly and indiscriminately
d) seedy looking characters
e) idiots walking down range during live fire
f) idiots stepping out in front of shooting benches during live fire
g) idiots firing rounds down range during a cold range
h) noise
i) lack of privacy
j) danger
k) etc
I seriously don't know why I would ever go to a public range when at a private range I know the members, have the ability to screen them out to keep out the idiots, and etc. Are there some advantages to a public range I am missing?


That's all I have time for now. Thanks.

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 8:41 AM
Ok, in no particular order, here comes the brain dump....

Good lord, ok, I'll answer a couple for now.

1) On the issue of semi-automatic pistols and magazine capacity, I do not understand why certain pistols for sale in gun shops are marked "law enforcement only"? If it's ONLY the magazine capacity, then why can't we use a 10-round only magazine in those pistols?

This is because it's not simply a matter of mag capacity. CA has a roster of handguns certified for sale. If the particular handgun in question was not submitted by the manufacturer or importer for approval, and the fee paid, then no matter what mag capacity the gun has or comes with, the gun cannot legally be sold by a dealer in CA.

Fortunately, non-rostered guns can still be sold and transferred *through* a dealer by private parties, but these guns still cannot be sold or transferred with 10+ round mags. 10 rounds only, post year 2000.

2) Are there any rifles for sale in gun shops marked "law enforcement only"

Sure, any longarm that satisfies the current legal definition of a CA Assault Weapon, is most likely for sale to LE's only on LE letterheads.

3) On the issue of building your own ar-15, I have read the assault weapons ban. I don't see how an ar-15 with a pistol grip is made legal just because of a "bullet button" - It's still a detachable magazine, it just takes longer to detach it. I see these guns for sale, and people whipping these guns out at ranges, and I keep thinking that one day the DOJ is going to just arrest and confiscate all these things. Question: Is there an actual law or regulation or decision published that specifically states these are ok? (ie not what a handful of people have talked about with others who claim they talked to a DOJ representative in the field)


There is no regulation published yet that says specifically that the Bullet Button is ok, but the letter of the law says that a mag that is removed by use of a tool, is not considered to be a detachable magazine for the purposes of the AW law. At the risk of sounding like others on this board, this topic is covered over and over on this board, I do kindly suggest that you take some time to read up as you'll learn a lot by reading those threads.

Turby

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 8:49 AM
4) For these people who have "built" their own ar-15, with all of the evil features, but including a bulllet button - seriously, what makes these guns any different than their counterpart in a non-aw ban state? Simply the button? That's IT? So, if that's true, then if someday the outrageous and stupid california ban on aw is lifted, all these people have to do is take out the button? So the only difference will be they drilled a hole in their lower etc?

You are right, the only difference is the magazine release mechanism. All we would have to do is remove the bullet button feature and we would have an otherwise fully functional semi auto rifle.

But none of us drilled a hole in our lower to install a bullet button, what specifically are you referring to?

5) Why do people post pictures of their guns, their ammo, etc. on an open public forum which has no privacy? The last thing in the world I would think to do is post pictures which could easily, through a subpoena to calguns and ip tracing, and forensics, and word usage study etc - easily be used to track someone down.

Some people are less paranoid than others. I limit what I post online because I'm slightly more paranoid. What you do is up to you.

6) The ban on high-capacity magazines supposedly left it ok if you had high-capacity magazines pre-dating the ban. Ok, so how can that possibly be enforced? For example, a long long long time ago my father bought an early edition ruger mini-14, with 30-round curved magazines. There are 10 of those magazines in all. Hypothetically, if he gave me his guns and accessories when I was young, and so in my closet I have a box of these magazines, what can I and can't I do with them? Not a single one has a serial number or identifiable marking. Ok, so what on earth am I supposed to do with these things? (a) does their purchase by my father in the late 1960's and early 1970's make them "pre-ban" or legal? (b) does my father's hypothetical giving them to me in the 1970's have any effect on them being legal or not? (c) if these are legal, could I use them? (d) how on god's green earth am I supposed to "prove" these are legal if it ever becomes a problem.


We've covered this topic many times here too, so a basic summary:

Pre-2000 hicap mags in CA are legal to own, possess, and find.

The burden is on the law to prove that you are illegal; the burden is NOT on you to prove that you are legal. Nonetheless, don't do anything stupid.

If you were rummaging through your dear old dad's stuff, and found some hicap mags, you are legal. You can use them. He cannot, however, give them to you, lend them to you, sell them to you.


8) I know that there is a FFL database, but is there a more useful and user friendly list of all FFL in the country? For example, is there a database list that could be imported into a contacts database for generating mass mailings to the FFL people?

Shotgun News maintains a list on their website, you can try referencing that if you like.

9) In the State of California political system, (a) are they any pro-gun democrats? (b) are there any anti-gun republicans? Is this information readily available somewhere or do I have to call all of them?

I wouldn't bother calling, looking at track records pretty much says it all. Even Arnold is a soft Repub, he tends to sign anti-gun bills that make it across to his desk. I will defer remaining political talk to those members who enjoy it more than I.

10) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all firearms manufacturers in the United States?

Don't know. Try looking at something like Gun Digest, Blue Book of Gun Values, or just simply start doing Google searches on the 'net.

11) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all ammunition manufacturers in the United States?

If you mean ammo makers who are located *in* the US - why not just do a search among the largest resellers - Midway USA, Graf & Sons, etc - and see what brands they carry?

12) Is there an exhaustive comprehensive accurate up-to-date list of all online firearms dealers?

You seem to like lists.. I doubt there is. Again, Google can be useful.

Turby

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 8:59 AM
14) In terms of storing ammunition, what are the opinions out there on dumping ammo out of its commercial packaging and just storing it loosely in a big green ammo container?

A lot of people do this. I've purchased ammo loose in ammo cans before. I've never heard of a problem, although I certainly would be hesitant to put match ammo in a bulk can like this. I wouldn't want any deformation to happen to the bullet tips.


Does storing ammo loosely in a big can cause any damage to the ammo? Present any dangers? Damage the brass? etc. basically, I can't figure out why I waste so much space with all these boxes of commercially packaged ammo, when it would seem to make so much more sense to store is in bulk cans. I mean, if I am picking up ammo on the way to a hunt or a shoot then I like the little 20 or 40 or 50 round boxes, they are easier to carry etc. But, in terms of home storage, why waste all that space storing 50 boxes of each caliber when it could be one ammo can for each caliber, and keep one plastic 50-round box for packing lite on a trip etc?

I've never heard of anyone having damaged ammo in ammo cans, but if you're dropping stuff out of airplanes for use in the field, I would think you would want to at least use the metal tins and cardboard packaging (just like how milsurp is packed) to ensure that damage to the ammo is minimal during the drop.

One other reason why I keep ammo in ammo boxes is simple - I reload. I want an easy way to mark on the box what I've loaded, and I want to batch by load date. If I dumped everything in a big ammo can, that won't work well for me. If you don't reload, and you only buy one brand of ammo, and one loadout, then maybe you'll be ok.


15) Honestly, so much of the ammunition product on the shelves seem, in my view, to be 90% marketing and 10% ballistic truth. I can't tell you how many guys I have seen show up to a shoot with "match" grade ammunition, and the seriously treat this stuff like it is magic. But, many times I watch them shoot, and they still suck.

As with 80% of most situations, it's the user, not the equipment.

I can tell you that I personally have noticed a group size difference between milsurp and match grade ammo, in my rifle at a meager 100 yards.

But, seriously, I feel pretty damn good about shooting 3" groups at 300 yards. So, is it hype, or real, or what? Does COMMERCIAL (not reload) ammunition really truly make that much of a difference in your accuracy? (I know reload does, at least for me, as I have been able to change 18" groupings to 2" groupings and vice versa simply by adjusting my reload recipe and technique.

3" at 300 yards is 1MOA. Plenty good for nearly all real life applications. I'd say you're doing fine. If you can shoot well with regular ol' cheaper ammo, keep it up. Count me in as one who "thinks" I need match ammo to shoot sub-MOA, as my experience so far has played this out.

16) Is it possible for a right hand dominant person to become a marksman shooting left handed? Other than "practice" what is the best way to go about increasing pistol and rifle accuracy with your non-dominant hand?


I'm not really a rifle expert yet, so I will defer this question to someone else who knows more. :)

17) Do you aim with eyes both open or one eye closed? What about when shooting with pistol? Rifle without scope? Rifle with scope?

This has been a favorite topic here in the past. Seems like answers are mixed - people shoot with both eyes open, one eye closed, and some seem to shoot with both eyes closed.

If you peruse through the rifleman's forum here, I think you'll see a lot of folks shooting rifles with and without scopes, I think it comes down to preference and application.

18) On the issue of semi-auto pistol vs. revolver - for home defense, why would one choose a semi-auto over a revolver?

Another classis internet question asked millions of times over on each gun board and newsgroup. Not to diminish your question, but there are tons of threads on this and I'm sure you'll get some good reading out of these. I'll go dig one up and post the link.

19) Am I the only one out there who thinks public shooting ranges are a nightmare?

Another favorite Calguns topic. There are threads on this, feel free to join :)

Turby

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 9:01 AM
Thread on funny things at the range:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=31214

Turby

97F1504RAD
04-25-2009, 9:35 AM
That is certainly a large list of questions. Seems Turbo was kind enough to answer most of them that would have already been answered via the search for sure.

Do yourself a huge favor and spend a few day searching and reading all the stickies and various other threads that have answers to most of your questions. And for questions 14-18 those are questions that will be debated and have various answers for years to come I would imagine.

goober
04-25-2009, 9:42 AM
Outstanding job Turby!
and welcome to the OP :cheers2:

Saigon1965
04-25-2009, 9:47 AM
Turb is on fire -

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 10:05 AM
Here's a pretty good discussion that starts to cover semi-autos vs revolvers, per the OP's question #18.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2273887

Turby

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Here's one on shooting with one eye open/closed vs two eyes open -

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2368832

Per the OP's question #17.

Turby

Turbinator
04-25-2009, 10:14 AM
7) If someone has a type 01/02 Dealer FFL, does that encompass a curio&relic type license? I get the feeling you don't need a C&R license if you have a full FFL.


That's my understanding too, a C&R FFL isn't necessary if you hold a normal dealer's license. The problem is that to get a dealer's license, you usually have to show intent to run a business - a storefront, regular hours, a safe to secure the items for sale, and insurance. Not many of us can meet all of those requirements at home any longer. There was a day and age when getting an FFL weren't so tough, but the gov't is clamping down on free issuance nowadays.

I trust you understand the limitations of a C&R FFL, yes?

Turby

JoeTheShooter
04-27-2009, 8:09 AM
That's my understanding too, a C&R FFL isn't necessary if you hold a normal dealer's license. The problem is that to get a dealer's license, you usually have to show intent to run a business - a storefront, regular hours, a safe to secure the items for sale, and insurance. Not many of us can meet all of those requirements at home any longer. There was a day and age when getting an FFL weren't so tough, but the gov't is clamping down on free issuance nowadays.

I trust you understand the limitations of a C&R FFL, yes?

Turby

I have heard this question a number of times from people at gun shows or on shoots. I always understood you did not need a C&R if you had a regular type 01/02 FFL.

Thanks for the responses and cite links Turb.

hellraiser
04-27-2009, 1:01 PM
wow!!! you the man turb!!!! most people would have directed him to the search!!!! hey joe now that you got the basics stick around a while and enjoy!!!

Soldier415
04-27-2009, 1:49 PM
need to change your name to turbonator

ilbob
04-27-2009, 2:21 PM
we are here to toughen you up. ask away. soon you will be a grizzled veteran.

Futurecollector
04-27-2009, 2:21 PM
WOW you dont seem like a typical noob on here lol, atleast you didnt ask,
"how do i turn my AR-15 in to a full auto AW" LOL welcome to the forums!

Futurecollector
04-27-2009, 2:22 PM
OH DO YUO HAVE A BROTHER THATS A PLUMBER?

Turbinator
05-05-2009, 1:34 PM
Thanks for the responses and cite links Turb.

You're welcome, got any more questions or anything above you'd like to dig into further?

Turby