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RomanDad
04-24-2009, 9:08 AM
My Nordyke Analogy:

As some of you may know, I'm an attorney.

My general practice area is Entertainment law. Some of you may ask, What does this guy know about 2nd Amendment law?

Entertainment law deals quite a bit with the 1st Amendment, and as the Court in Heller suggested and the 9th circuit confirmed, the extensive body of 1st Amendment law will be a roadmap for the newly confirmed rights of the 2nd Amendment. Besides this fact, Constitutional law, and particularly the 2nd Amendment has been a sort of “hobby” of mine since well before I went to law school over a decade ago now....

So I’ve been struggling for the last few days with some of the posts and comments I’ve read and heard regarding the importance and effect of Nordyke.

And the analogy that keeps popping up for me is one from the entertainment world. Specifically, the world of Professional Wrestling.

By chance, I grew up with some people closely associated with the Pro Wrestling industry. So I know the business a little better than most. But anybody who has ever watched a Pro Wrestling tag team match will recognize that there is a basic script to each event. And I find that script to be particularly helpful for the lay person to understand what has happened this week.

The Players:

The Bad Guys or “Heels” as they are known in the language of Pro Wrestling: They are BIG, Strong, Powerful, Nasty, UGLY and most importantly, they CHEAT!: In our case, this is the tag team of the gun-control lobby groups (Brady et al) and their allies in the state and federal legislatures.

The Good Guys or “Baby Faces”: In Wrestling this is a team made up of a really likable, good looking, sympathetic wrestler: The “Face” (in our case, people like the Nordykes and Heller). Surprisingly, he’s usually quite petite and relatively weak to be in a fight... His partner is a wrestler who is usually not as good looking, but what he lacks in beauty, he makes up for in strength (in our case,2nd amendment attorneys/ now turned civil rights attorneys).

The Referee: He is deaf, dumb and blind, either that or he is on the take- (In our case- The Courts).

The Crowd: YOU GUYS... The average gun owner who wants the Baby Faces to win the match.



The script:

The match starts with the “face” squaring off again one of the bad guys, and inevitably, the bad guys cheat to gain the upper hand. The ref, doesn’t see it, or if he does, he acts as if his hands are tied to do anything about it. This makes the crowd go NUTS... Soon the Face is being pummeled about the ring. The bad guys are double teaming him, often with total disregard for the rules.... Whenever the Face’s partner tries to step in and help however, the referee stops him (this of course is the laundry list of cases since Miller that have held there is no 2nd amendment right for individuals). Again, the UNFAIRNESS of the situation causes the crowd to go absolutely insane.

The face will repeatedly struggle to tag his partner for some relief, but each time he tries, he is cut off just inches from making the tag by the cheating bad guys. The good guys of course play by the rules so the best the partner can do is simply grab onto the tag rope and stretch his hand out as far as possible, but each time the tag is tried, seemingly forever, it is just out of reach. The Face may even successfully tag the partner, but the ref will not see it, and force the partner back out of the ring... The bad guys may even taunt the strong partner, slapping him in the face for good measure or spitting at him, and of course when the strong partner tries to jump in, the ref stops him like he’s part of a big conspiracy to screw the heros.

The bad guys repeatedly try to pin the Face, but somehow, despite the beating he’s taken, he always finds a little SOMETHING to kick out of the pin (although sometimes the bad guys will arrogantly refuse to pin the good guy, just to continue the beating a little longer. This will be their undoing.)

Finally, when it looks like the Face can take no more, and the end is inevitable, he finds one last ounce of energy and courage and reaches his hand out and tags the partner. Miraculously the Ref sees the tag, and the tables are suddenly turned. The big strong partner (our attorneys) powerfully rush into the ring and begin alternately beating each of the Heels (who are now cowering and begging for forgiveness) one after the other, and the crowd goes wild.

NORDYKE WAS THE TAG. It’s the vehicle that allows the lawyers to jump into the ring. The match isn’t over by a long shot. But at least now it’s a fair fight.

IGOTDIRT4U
04-24-2009, 9:18 AM
Nice job, RD. Must be all that grapefruit juice! ;)

After reading a lot of the posts here, and having my own opinions, it is nice to see a lawyer who wanted to get into Constitutional Law offer their insight.

(maybe mario will chime in :p )

Dr Rockso
04-24-2009, 9:23 AM
Does this mean Alan Gura will drop an atomic elbow on Paul Helmke?

Can I watch? Please?

SwissFluCase
04-24-2009, 9:24 AM
Does this mean Alan Gura will drop an atomic elbow on Paul Helmke?

Can I watch? Please?

Is a folding chair an "assault weapon"?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Aldemar
04-24-2009, 9:50 AM
Watch your back.....Freddie Blassie may be hiding under the mat!

PatriotnMore
04-24-2009, 9:51 AM
Great analogy, I am just a little concerned about the time it took to make it. No wonder lawyers get paid by the hour. J/K:smartass::43:

rbgaynor
04-24-2009, 10:30 AM
Is a folding chair an "assault weapon"?


I'm afraid so:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/3470686471_1c6ce9f80b.jpg?v=0

norm365
04-24-2009, 10:45 AM
WAIT…WAIT….WAIT…… Hold on here are you trying to tell me that wrestling is scripted.

AEC1
04-24-2009, 11:20 AM
the thing that completes the analogy is that the majority of Wrestling fans and gun guys wear wife beaters, drink PBR, watch NASCAR from their trailer homes...

jas000
04-24-2009, 11:34 AM
An addition to the analogy:

The match isn't being watched live by the crowd: it's being broadcast on television by (mostly) the mainstream media who control the camera angles and edit the shots. So the crowd watching on TV can be mislead. There are however some people live at the match = calguns, NRA, others who don't get their view filtered through the mainstream media.

Where's the coverage of Nordyke in the MSM?

ilbob
04-24-2009, 11:37 AM
Great analogy, I am just a little concerned about the time it took to make it. No wonder lawyers get paid by the hour. J/K:smartass::43:


As long as he is billing someone else for coming up with the analogy it is ok by me.

tgriffin
04-24-2009, 11:37 AM
Does this mean Alan Gura will drop an atomic elbow on Paul Helmke?

Can I watch? Please?

That would make for one hell of a pay per view.

Turbinator
04-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Great job, love it. Brings back memories of watching this stuff on TV. :)

Turby

CCWFacts
04-24-2009, 11:49 AM
My Nordyke Analogy:

Good analogy. In fact, there's even a Wiki article on these characters: the face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(professional_wrestling)) and the heel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(professional_wrestling)).

I'm just worried about Maloney coming in and yanking defeat from the jaws of victory. Is that a concern?

RomanDad
04-24-2009, 12:28 PM
Good analogy. In fact, there's even a Wiki article on these characters: the face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(professional_wrestling)) and the heel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(professional_wrestling)).

I'm just worried about Maloney coming in and yanking defeat from the jaws of victory. Is that a concern?

Im not concerned about maloney.... In the unlikely even he is the case the Supreme Court chooses when it visits incorporation, they should rule on Maloney's case much like the 9th did on the Nordykes.... That is, the 2nd is incorporated, but Malooney loses just the same.

My bigger concern with regard to the Supremes and incorporation is a VERY complex and esoteric argument that I dont even want to voice here.... It involves differing philosophies on what and how items of the Bill of Rights are incorporated, and we'll leave it at that.

DDT
04-24-2009, 1:17 PM
Is there more than one question about "how" the bill of rights are incorporated?

I can't imagine the "federalists" would stand for direct but I can see an argument being made for P&I but I don't see how that significantly impacts the fact that 2A is now recognized as a civil right across the land.

RomanDad
04-24-2009, 1:21 PM
Is there more than one question about "how" the bill of rights are incorporated?

I can't imagine the "federalists" would stand for direct but I can see an argument being made for P&I but I don't see how that significantly impacts the fact that 2A is now recognized as a civil right across the land.

Yeah... there are several schools of thought.... Its not a BIG deal until its a big deal, so lets not lose any sleep over it.... Right now its just something for us con-law wonks to ponder.

DDT
04-24-2009, 1:23 PM
Right now its just something for us con-law wonks to ponder.

didn't mean to step on your wonk.

KWA-S
04-24-2009, 1:41 PM
Sounds about right to me...only the commercial breaks are two weeks long.

RomanDad
04-24-2009, 4:15 PM
As long as he is billing someone else for coming up with the analogy it is ok by me.

Im not billing anybody for it.... Or for any of the 2nd Amendment stuff I do.... :cheers2:

hoffmang
04-24-2009, 4:32 PM
Does this mean Alan Gura will drop an atomic elbow on Paul Helmke?


Just wait!

RomanDad - I wouldn't worry as much about the P&I issue honestly. I've spent a lot of time with the right people on the issue you're worried about and no one is actually worried about it.

-Gene

jasilva
04-24-2009, 4:38 PM
An addition to the analogy:

The match isn't being watched live by the crowd:...

Where's the coverage of Nordyke in the MSM?

The mainstream media not covering Nordyke is a good thing.


Let the antis ignore the ruling and not rally the softheaded behind their cause. We can make progress in rolling back stupid laws while they sleep.

RomanDad
04-24-2009, 4:54 PM
Just wait!

RomanDad - I wouldn't worry as much about the P&I issue honestly. I've spent a lot of time with the right people on the issue you're worried about and no one is actually worried about it.

-Gene
Like I said... Im not really worried about it either.... Its just out there is all.... Ill worry about it if it ever looks like its going to become an issue.

Monte
04-24-2009, 5:23 PM
It's probably right here in front of me, but after going back over the thread twice, I'm not seeing it. What is P&I?

B Strong
04-24-2009, 6:13 PM
The iggy (inside joke) is that we've cut a promo (made them look bad) on the anti's.

hoffmang
04-25-2009, 11:06 AM
It's probably right here in front of me, but after going back over the thread twice, I'm not seeing it. What is P&I?

The Privileges and Immunities doctrine for 14A incorporation of the 2A. Right now stare decisis and Nordyke mean the 2A is incorporated through the Due Process clause and not the P&I clause. When you read the Nordyke opinion, this is touched on where the court talks about the Slaughterhouse Cases.

-Gene

Soldier415
04-25-2009, 11:34 AM
Tag

psssniper
04-25-2009, 2:29 PM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/psssniper/425wrestlerrourkemickeylc121508.jpg

sigsauer887
04-25-2009, 11:54 PM
IT's STILL REAL TO ME DAMNIT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI