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View Full Version : Did Arizona open carry just deter a crime?


Liberty1
04-23-2009, 1:42 AM
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/24827.html

I debated whether to put this under true tales of self defense or why open carry. I chose this section because there was no self defense involved, rather an bit of anecdotal evidence that bolsters the argument we have been making that OC prevents crime.

I pulled in to a gas station with its attendant mini-mart to top off the tank. As I finished filling my tank I became aware of an older Oldsmobile with three thug looking cats pulling in- not to a pump, nor right up to the mini mart, but kind of out of sight. The front seat passenger- a kid in his early 20's with the obligatory baggy clothing half way down his but gets out- looking really shifty and nervous. Thinking this was strange I positioned myself to get a better look and I immediately switched to "orange" as something didn't seem right. I moved closer to a brick pillar in order to both get a closer look at the car as well as to get a better tactical position (i.e. cover). The driver of the car must have spied my openly carried sidearm because he quickly called out to his associate. The first thug turned around, ran quickly back to his car slammed the door and they made great haste out of the service station. As they went by the passenger had a look on his face when he saw my holstered CZ- the look was priceless.

My wife piped up and said, "Did what I think just happen, really happen? Did you just scare some would-be robbers away by OCing?"

"Sure looks like it." was the only answer I could muster as I watched their car disappear into the distance. Just like that the wife appreciates more completely the value of OC.

My hands were shaking and nothing really went down so I can totally understand the part about being only half as accurate in a gunfight as you are at the range. I don't doubt for a minute that had I not been OCing something would have indeed gone down.

Wish I had had the presence of mind to take down the license plate, and to be honest I don't remember what color the olds was- I think it was light tan or maybe white. I guess I really have to brush up on my skills at being a good witness.

ColetheGun
04-23-2009, 2:06 AM
whoa that is pretty scary situation but ended well, glad to know you stoped a possible crime

MrSigmaDOT40
04-23-2009, 4:07 AM
:thumbsup: +1 for OC

PatriotnMore
04-23-2009, 4:24 AM
My son just came back from Arizona, he was there to meet the GF's Mothers side of the family. Anyways, the Uncle open carried all weekend, which my Son (21) said that, it was different at first, but quickly turned to comfort knowing one of us was armed.

He said he really enjoyed the freedom of choice one has in Arizona, if one chooses, they can enjoy a true 2A right to bear arms, unlike here, where the words are more in line with irony, than a real right.

Glad everything worked out for this story, and yet I am not surprised. Contrary to what the anti gun/2A/Professional LEO associations/CA Legislature would like you to believe, the average everyday hard working American, is capable of making wise decisions while in armed carry, and is not looking to start the next gun fight at the O.K. Corral.

savageevo
04-23-2009, 4:51 AM
another good article, thanks liberty

BroncoBob
04-23-2009, 5:03 AM
Maybe, just maybe some day we might have some freedom.

Untamed1972
04-23-2009, 7:24 AM
I think the only reason the LEO associations/unions fight against it is "turf protections". If they force you to unarmed and unprotected it always makes for good grounds to seek more tax money to hire more COPs.

If people were able to start carrying and protecting themselves and crime started to go down they'd lose their edge in the turf war....that war being for money, not for safer streets.

pullnshoot25
04-23-2009, 8:50 AM
If you talked to Bruce Ruff or our "Harvard Math Degree Associate" at the meeting I went to a couple nights ago you would have heard that open carry makes you a "bullet magnet" and a threat to society. This is great news, I farking love it.

Dark&Good
04-23-2009, 9:04 AM
Niiice :D

I'd just like to add a note on this part: "My hands were shaking and nothing really went down so I can totally understand the part about being only half as accurate in a gunfight as you are at the range. I don't doubt for a minute that had I not been OCing something would have indeed gone down."

I used to catch adders (ViPER395, come in :D ) back in Transylvania. I remember, while dealing with my first three or four snakes, I got the shaking immediately AFTER I finished the "action" - I had serious problems with lighting a cigarette. I had to sit for a few minutes to just become able to walk again. But while I was dealing with the safe capture of the snake, I was the most coordinated guy in the world, super-precise and fast :D
So, can you see how this relates to the above quote? :)

pullnshoot25
04-23-2009, 9:06 AM
Niiice :D

I'd just like to add a note on this part: "My hands were shaking and nothing really went down so I can totally understand the part about being only half as accurate in a gunfight as you are at the range. I don't doubt for a minute that had I not been OCing something would have indeed gone down."

I used to catch adders (ViPER395, come in :D ) back in Transylvania. I remember, while dealing with my first three or four snakes, I got the shaking immediately AFTER I finished the "action" - I had serious problems with lighting a cigarette. I had to sit for a few minutes to just become able to walk again. But while I was dealing with the safe capture of the snake, I was the most coordinated guy in the world, super-precise and fast :D
So, can you see how this relates to the above quote? :)

You are hard core, no doubt about that. Adders? Crikey!

Dark&Good
04-23-2009, 9:12 AM
You are hard core, no doubt about that. Adders? Crikey!

That's not how it's related :p

I'd risk to say, while you're in it, you might still be able to function very well. OP, when did you start shaking, if at all? Wasn't that after they left?

Untamed1972
04-23-2009, 9:27 AM
That's not how it's related :p

I'd risk to say, while you're in it, you might still be able to function very well. OP, when did you start shaking, if at all? Wasn't that after they left?


Yes...that "shakey" feeling is your bodies reaction to coming down off the adreniline rush......during the rush your fight or flight response makes you move fast and hard either forwards or backwards depending on your choice of action.

Stanze
04-23-2009, 9:47 AM
Open carry say's to bad guys: "Bullets, they hurt."

:thumbsup:

Untamed1972
04-23-2009, 9:51 AM
Bad guys think YOU life is worth the $40 or 12pk of beer they might get, but when they hafta decide if THEIR life is worth $40 they're likely to choose a different course of action.

It's that old risk .vs reward thing. If you think it's an easy $40 knock-off with no resistance BG will likely go for it. Attempted $40 knock-off with robber dead on the floor? Ehh.....they'll go look for an easier target. There is a reason in nature predators, unless they are truly desperate, always go for the smaller, weaker targets in the flock.

Dark&Good
04-23-2009, 4:47 PM
Bad guys think YOU life is worth the $40 or 12pk of beer they might get, but when they hafta decide if THEIR life is worth $40 they're likely to choose a different course of action.

It's that old risk .vs reward thing. If you think it's an easy $40 knock-off with no resistance BG will likely go for it. Attempted $40 knock-off with robber dead on the floor? Ehh.....they'll go look for an easier target. There is a reason in nature predators, unless they are truly desperate, always go for the smaller, weaker targets in the flock.

I can attest to that.

Seesm
04-23-2009, 4:52 PM
Great stuff. If we all could (legal gun owners) could CCW or Open carry it would be a deterent for all sorts of things I am sure.

Theseus
04-23-2009, 5:05 PM
:shuriken:

GuyW
04-23-2009, 6:44 PM
If you talked to Bruce Ruff ....at the meeting I went to a couple nights ago you would have heard that open carry makes you a "bullet magnet" and a threat to society.

For those that don't know, Sgt (ret) Bruce Ruff is making his 3rd run at the San Diego County Sheriff job in 2010.

....not a good way to bolster your position with many gun owners, Bruce...

To be fair, Bruce is good on CCW....but I'm still pushing for Jay La Suer...
.

1859sharps
04-23-2009, 8:38 PM
Well lets be up front. There are two kinds of open carry.

First is California style open carry; ie unloaded. This carries a high level of risk. I don't mean from a legal/cop point of view. under stress and under attack/threat isn't the time to be fumbling with a magazine/trying to load your handgun. From a tactics and self defense point of view, unload handguns are useless and you might as well not even have it on you. But then UOC is far more about political/education reasons then self defense.

However, proper open carry (ie loaded) combined with some training and a commitment to situational awareness, does not bring any more risk for a civilian then it is for a LEO. At least that is my opinion.

N6ATF
04-24-2009, 12:05 AM
whoa that is pretty scary situation but ended well, glad to know you stoped a possible crime

Possibly moved it somewhere an OCer or CCWer was not... if it was me, I'd look in the news and police logs for unintended consequences.

OC may be best for engaging the OODA loop of groups of criminals so they move on rather than force you into an outnumbered gunfight, but one-on-one, I would rather CCW with the element of surprise and a good chance at taking a criminal out of society temporarily or for good.

yellowfin
04-24-2009, 12:26 AM
Great stuff. If we all could (legal gun owners) could CCW or Open carry it would be a deterent for all sorts of things I am sure. Far more important to the anti gun establishment in this state for us to be sacrificed to criminals to further their agenda. They would quite literally prefer for you to be robbed or killed than be able to defend yourself. It boils down to nothing more than that.

MP301
04-24-2009, 6:06 AM
Well lets be up front. There are two kinds of open carry.

First is California style open carry; ie unloaded. This carries a high level of risk. I don't mean from a legal/cop point of view. under stress and under attack/threat isn't the time to be fumbling with a magazine/trying to load your handgun. From a tactics and self defense point of view, unload handguns are useless and you might as well not even have it on you. But then UOC is far more about political/education reasons then self defense.

However, proper open carry (ie loaded) combined with some training and a commitment to situational awareness, does not bring any more risk for a civilian then it is for a LEO. At least that is my opinion.

Even though its not politically a good idea to open carry right now, unloaded open carry beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick if that is all thats available.

If you are "fumbling with a magazine" then IMHO you probably shouldnt be wearing a loaded gun either. There is no fumblingLike anything important (that comes with great responsibility especially), if you dont get some training and actually practice what you need to do and know, then loaded vs. unloaded starts to matter less and less.

I can load/reload my gun faster then most people can unholster and shoot

MP301
04-24-2009, 6:11 AM
Well lets be up front. There are two kinds of open carry.

First is California style open carry; ie unloaded. This carries a high level of risk. I don't mean from a legal/cop point of view. under stress and under attack/threat isn't the time to be fumbling with a magazine/trying to load your handgun. From a tactics and self defense point of view, unload handguns are useless and you might as well not even have it on you. But then UOC is far more about political/education reasons then self defense.

However, proper open carry (ie loaded) combined with some training and a commitment to situational awareness, does not bring any more risk for a civilian then it is for a LEO. At least that is my opinion.

Even though its not politically a good idea to open carry right now, unloaded open carry beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick if that is all thats available.

If you are "fumbling with a magazine" then IMHO you probably shouldnt be wearing a loaded gun either. There is no fumbling! Like anything important (that comes with great responsibility especially), if you dont get some training and actually practice what you need to do and know, then loaded vs. unloaded means a whole lot less.

I can load/reload my gun faster then most people can unholster and shoot. Im nothing special, but I did obtain the needed training and I actually give a crap enough to practice what I need to practice.... Fumble with a magazine? why?

PatriotnMore
04-24-2009, 9:35 AM
Even though its not politically a good idea to open carry right now, unloaded open carry beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick if that is all thats available.

If you are "fumbling with a magazine" then IMHO you probably shouldnt be wearing a loaded gun either. There is no fumbling! Like anything important (that comes with great responsibility especially), if you dont get some training and actually practice what you need to do and know, then loaded vs. unloaded means a whole lot less.

I can load/reload my gun faster then most people can unholster and shoot. Im nothing special, but I did obtain the needed training and I actually give a crap enough to practice what I need to practice.... Fumble with a magazine? why?


Although your point is well taken, I think they OP's point is equally well taken. The added obstacle of having to walk around with UOC, in my opinion, is just another level of infringement. The whole point of Bearing Arms is for self protection. If one is forced to use the benefit afforded us in the Constitution, having to take the time to load, in order to be ready is ridiculous, especially when seconds count.

Especially in light of the types of weapons which were available back when the Constitution was drafted, muzzle loading pistols, and rifles. No, LOC was what was expected, and written about.

If you think it this level of infringement is justified, just try to pass law restricting LEO to the same. The fact that you can reload fast, is only relevant because of the infringement.

However, that level of infringement should not be placed on our right, at all.

The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to secure your freedoms by not only being able to own a weapon, but having that weapon on you to use, if needed.

If this was not extremely important to our FF, they would not have taken the great amount of time, and effort, to write it in the Constitution.

The real issue here, is infringement, equal protection, and the right to self protection being denied the public. It is not being meaningfully afforded to us, and is infringed by unconstitutional laws. Also, it is further compounded by the hassle one may receive from LEO, while trying to exercise that right.