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View Full Version : Nordyke: What about the other states


Window_Seat
04-22-2009, 4:19 PM
Especially Hawaii (HI), territories & commonwealth(s)? I understand that HI is just as bad, if not, even worse than CA when it comes to 2A rights. So what, if any can be in the future as far as challenges for some of the other states that have unconstitutional and tyrannical anti 2A regulations? AZ, NV, OR, WA, ID, MT & AK are much more 2A friendly, and could come last, but as for CA & HI, these are the only 2 that need the most paying attention to in the 9C district.

I have also seen that Guam & Northern Mariana Islands are within the 9C district map. According to Wiki, the Northern Mariana Islands (including the islands of Saipan, Tinian and Rota) make up a Commonwealth of the United States. Anyone on these 2?

Sorry if this is a dupe...

Erik; optimistic.

SwissFluCase
04-22-2009, 4:22 PM
HI is much worse. Somewhere between NY and DC I believe.

Low hanging tropical fruit, anyone?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

CCWFacts
04-22-2009, 4:39 PM
I've mentioned several times that Nordyke will be more important in other states than it is here. So...

Especially Hawaii (HI), territories & commonwealth(s)? I understand that HI is just as bad, if not, even worse than CA when it comes to 2A rights.

Yes. HI has a may-issue permit system, but, unlike in CA, there are no counties in HI where permits are issued liberally. I also think (not sure) that permits may only be valid in the issuing county. Finally, at least here in CA, people without permits are (probably) only committing a misdemeanor, which might be treated leniently by officers, meaning that it's not totally insane to carry without a permit. In Hawaii, it's a serious felony, meaning officers don't have discretion in how they handle it. In other words, they don't even have our unofficial CCW system that sort-of exists here.

I think HI's AW and magazine laws are not as painful as ours. But their CCW situation is tremendously worse, and there is no open carry at all.

Nordyke / Heller will go to work on that immediately. And they need it; there are a combination of cultural factors (monarchy, colonialism, a tradition of brawling, strong Democratic control of the state, Japanese influence) which make it inconceivable that Hawaii would have CCW reform through its political processes.

And if Hawaii is bad, the situation is significantly worse in the territories in the 9th, meaning Guam, Saipan and some other islands. They have no CCW issuance and sweeping gun bans. I think maybe 22lr rifles are allowed on those islands, that's it. They would never ever have gun law reform through their legislative processes. Politics in Saipan for example are really messed up competitions based on patronage, not on issues. Nordyke is what's going to help them get their rights, for the first time ever.

Forcing CCW reform into these islands may well have the effect of ending their cultural tolerance of brawling, locals-only beaches, mild thuggery and so on.

I think there is also benefit for Washington and Oregon. IIRC, those states don't have reciprocity or normal non-resident issuance.

I have also seen that Guam & Northern Mariana Islands are within the 9C district map. According to Wiki, the Northern Mariana Islands (including the islands of Saipan, Tinian and Rota) make up a Commonwealth of the United States. Anyone on these 2?

I've been to Guam and Saipan a few times, and I did ask about their gun laws. Didn't get a precise answer, other than, it's basically not allowed, and no one has them.

SwissFluCase
04-22-2009, 4:54 PM
http://www.honolulupd.org/info/gunlaw.htm

Looks like OC is a felony, and pistol mags over 10 rounds banned (including AR mags):

http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=47

Guam:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=55



Regards,


SwissFluCase

CCWFacts
04-22-2009, 5:05 PM
Guam:

which says:

"Restricted bullet" means a bullet that, as determined
by the Chief of Police, when fired from a pistol or revolver with
a barrel five inches or less in length, is capable of penetrating
body armor.

60121.1 Prohibitions and Penalties: Restricted Bullet.
(a) Any person who imports, manufactures or sells a
restricted bullet on Guam, except as specifically authorized by
the Director for purposes of public safety, shall be guilty of a
felony of the third degree and if the person holds a business
license or is registered under the provisions of this Chapter,
such business license and such registration shall be subject to
revocation.

So the Chief of Police has discretion to figure out which bullets qualify. Note that it doesn't specify what type of armor. Reading that, it sounds like a recipe for a near-total ammo ban. I would assume that even good old 22lr from a 5" could penetrate some types of armor, and anyway, it doesn't say there's any testing procedure required, just a "determination" by the Chief of Police. And we know how that kind of system works.

Oh yeah:

60121.2 Any person who possesses or carries a restricted bullet
not in accordance with the regulations promulgated by the
Director shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree.

so one single "restricted" bullet is a felony.

As I said, they have set it up so there it amounts to a total gun ban on these islands.

I think Saipan's laws are even worse than Guam's. Their firearms laws require registration upon arrival, and are defined in 6 CMC 2201-30. As a clue about how transparent their government is, their codes don't seem to be published on the web, so I can't find out what 6 CMC 2201-30 even says. I'm sure it's a near-total ban.

Lucky for them, they are in the 9th circuit!