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View Full Version : Coming back to Unloaded Locked Carry. One more idea...


mblat
04-21-2009, 4:49 PM
K, since Nordyke aren;t going to convert California to "shall-issue" any time soon I came back to ULC idea ( is it correct abbreviation? :) )

Here is my implementation

One takes holster for Makarov ( shameless plug - I have one for sale here !)
makes an extra hole, attaches lock..... Done.

What is good about it is the face that it is as small it can get, has attached, but separate place for mag. that is also snug and won't get lost.
It is pretty tight, so if any "soft" container will pass "secure" test this one should also.

What do you think, people? I know that not everybody has Makarovs ( jocking, jocking) but it should work for a LOT of .380 guns....

http://moodboxclub.org/GUNS/ULC1.JPG

http://moodboxclub.org/GUNS/ULC2.JPG

Scold
04-21-2009, 4:50 PM
God I hate california.

mblat
04-21-2009, 4:53 PM
God I hate california.

What can I say? Welcome to the club? :eek:

unusedusername
04-21-2009, 6:00 PM
That looks like a locked container to me, however it probably won't last too long unless you put metal O-rings around the holes in the leather.

You wouldn't want it to tear while carrying it and allow the lock to get out...

Mstrty
04-21-2009, 6:56 PM
+1 :thumbsup:

Liberty1
04-21-2009, 7:26 PM
K, since Nordyke aren;t going to convert California to "shall-issue" any time soon I came back to ULC idea ( is it correct abbreviation? :) )

Here is my implementation

http://moodboxclub.org/GUNS/ULC1.JPG

http://moodboxclub.org/GUNS/ULC2.JPG

That's not a "fully enclosed" secure locking case (PC 12025) so it must be OCed and then no lock is needed.

ETD1010
04-21-2009, 7:54 PM
That's not a "fully enclosed" secure locking case (PC 12025) so it must be OCed and then no lock is needed.

I thought anything that locks the device from use is acceptable, ie a trigger lock to disable to weapon with or witout a fully enclosed case. :confused:

CitaDeL
04-21-2009, 8:08 PM
12026.1. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

The locked container exemption lists three criteria;

1) Secure container
2) Fully enclosed
3) Locked

Because the flap does not completely close, I believe that this would fail the locked container criteria. There are belt packs that are manufactured for this purpose- You can find them with Bag Master (http://www.bagmaster.com/).

Liberty1
04-21-2009, 8:29 PM
I thought anything that locks the device from use is acceptable, ie a trigger lock to disable to weapon with or witout a fully enclosed case. :confused:

Trigger locks are a useless item you are forced to buy and are not part of ANY exemptions in State law to 12025 (concealed prohibition) found in 12027 (exemptions to 12025) or 626.9 (school zones).

check out californiaopencarry.org (http://californiaopencarry.org)it's not just for OC but also teaches a lay understanding of the general carry laws (concealed too).

DDT
04-21-2009, 9:58 PM
How is that not fully enclosed? The entire firearm is concealed.

What is the definition of fully enclosed? I thought just covering all parts of the handgun would qualify but is it "all edges must seal to another part of the container?"

yellowfin
04-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Whatever method of carry you choose, that's a fine looking Makarov :thumbsup:

glockwise2000
04-21-2009, 11:13 PM
God I hate california.

Likewise.

247Nino
04-22-2009, 12:13 AM
The locked container exemption lists three criteria;

1) Secure container
2) Fully enclosed
3) Locked

Because the flap does not completely close, I believe that this would fail the locked container criteria. There are belt packs that are manufactured for this purpose- You can find them with Bag Master (http://www.bagmaster.com/).

DAMN I want a FANNY PACK!

mblat
04-22-2009, 6:39 AM
Whatever method of carry you choose, that's a fine looking Makarov :thumbsup:

Thank you, thank you.


Honestly, I am disappointed. I thought I found near perfect ULC method...... or well....

CitaDeL
04-22-2009, 6:51 AM
How is that not fully enclosed? The entire firearm is concealed.

What is the definition of fully enclosed? I thought just covering all parts of the handgun would qualify but is it "all edges must seal to another part of the container?"

If you can lift up the flap and see or touch any part of what is contained inside, I would say that it is not enclosed. I cant speak to any legal definition, only to the safest possible laymen's interpretation.

DAMN I want a FANNY PACK!

No one wants a fanny pack. Are you ill?

All kidding aside, they have belt packs that have a zippered enclosure that could be locked with a small travel lock.

cineski
04-22-2009, 8:34 AM
I brought this up before in another thread. There are belt bags that can carry a gun that have a way to attach a lock to the zipper. Then when you need it, you can tell the BG to hold a bit while you unlock the pack on your belt, take you unloaded gun out, load it, etc....

DDT
04-22-2009, 9:04 AM
I brought this up before in another thread. There are belt bags that can carry a gun that have a way to attach a lock to the zipper. Then when you need it, you can tell the BG to hold a bit while you unlock the pack on your belt, take you unloaded gun out, load it, etc....

Well, maybe he'll just think you're reaching into the bag to retrieve your wallet for him.

mblat
04-22-2009, 9:47 AM
I brought this up before in another thread. There are belt bags that can carry a gun that have a way to attach a lock to the zipper. Then when you need it, you can tell the BG to hold a bit while you unlock the pack on your belt, take you unloaded gun out, load it, etc....

This is very funny and smart.... let's get back to reality.... if one to choose to have a gun with him most of the time and he doesn't want to be in violation of the law ( no matter how stupid it may be ) what is his choice?
Let me put it this way. It is absolutely normal for all of us in SoCal to travel 20/30 miles one way EVERY day to work...... So, how would like to get stranded 30 miles from your house with no firearms?
ULC may not be a big help in robbery situation.... but sure like hell will help in many others..

dandingo13
04-22-2009, 10:18 AM
I'm ridiculously new to all of this but literally just read that OC is legal in Los Angeles County?? I read the website but I just still feel like I'm missing something. Am I way off base or is it absolutely legal for me to carry an unloaded handgun on my hip in Los Angeles, or California, for that matter? Can anyone enlighten me a bit on this?

God Bless The Mauser
04-22-2009, 10:56 AM
So a flap holster like that would be open carry? What about a Luger holster that covers the entire gun, is that concealed carry?

DDT
04-22-2009, 11:03 AM
I'm ridiculously new to all of this but literally just read that OC is legal in Los Angeles County?? I read the website but I just still feel like I'm missing something. Am I way off base or is it absolutely legal for me to carry an unloaded handgun on my hip in Los Angeles, or California, for that matter? Can anyone enlighten me a bit on this?

Yes, open carry (unloaded) is legal in all of CA. You have to be very careful about "sensitive places," most notably within 1000' of any K-12 school, public or private.

Just because it is legal don't assume that you can do it with impunity. In all likelihood people will call the police for a "man with a gun" and they will respond. You will be detained at least as long as it takes to determine that the gun is unloaded. They will also take the incident back to the DA who will plot it on a map and then look for a school within 1000' of where you were standing. They will press charges if possible and come by your house to talk about it.

ilbob
04-22-2009, 11:10 AM
I am not real sure that holster qualifies as either fully enclosed or secure.

I am thinking maybe something akin to a PDA holster with a zipper so there is no question the thing is completely enclosed.

As for the lock, maybe something that uses a magnetic key attached to your drawing hand to unlock it? Although it leaves you open to what is a "similar locking device".

There is still some chance of a court deciding it is not "secure".

sfwdiy
04-22-2009, 1:16 PM
Reference these two threads:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=163061&

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=169348&

--B

CA_Libertarian
04-22-2009, 1:42 PM
How is that not fully enclosed? The entire firearm is concealed.

What is the definition of fully enclosed? I thought just covering all parts of the handgun would qualify but is it "all edges must seal to another part of the container?"

"Fully enclosed" will be decided in court. IANAL, but I think the judge would simply get his dictionary and then "inform" the jury of what the terminology should mean. If it doesn't go your way, you could probably win on appeal, as proper procedure requires any ambiguities to be decided in favor of the defendant.

In short, it may be perfectly legal, but still not smart.

The Wingnut
04-22-2009, 2:16 PM
How 'bout a hard-sided clamshell case with a lock system similar to a Gunvault? Put a belt loop on the side. Inputting the correct combo springs the case open about 60 degrees and the sidearm is suspended between the two shell halves, butt upward, ready for withdrawal. The ultimate retention holster!

It doesn't have to have the big interface of a Gunvault, just 4 small buttons on the side, and the outside could be canvas, nylon or leather faced. Magazines could be carried within or on a belt slide on the weak hand side.

Ridiculous that we have to think of such things, isn't it?