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View Full Version : Does Nordyke Make It Easy For CCW?


racer_X_123
04-21-2009, 10:05 AM
Sorry if this is a repost... I live in Ventrua county where they actually issue CCWs if you have good cause. However, they take a long time, like almost a year but they still do issue as long as you have good cause.

With the Nordyke decision, could I just use that as my good cause, that it is now protected under the 2nd amendment? or what should my good cause be written as to use this ruling to my advantage?

bulgron
04-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Sorry if this is a repost... I live in Ventrua county where they actually issue CCWs if you have good cause. However, they take a long time, like almost a year but they still do issue as long as you have good cause.

With the Nordyke decision, could I just use that as my good cause, that it is now protected under the 2nd amendment? or what should my good cause be written as to use this ruling to my advantage?

Not yet.

Someone is going to have to apply for a CCW, get denied because their Good Cause isn't good enough, then figure out a way to successfully sue the issuing authority over that. This is a process that is not for the faint of heart. Nor is it something that should be done except by people who REALLY know what they're doing. One bad lawsuit could screw all of us.

Hopefully what we'll see is the legal leadership in this state do what is necessary to get a case like that into court and then win it. Once we win one, then it's open season for the rest of us.

However, the legal leadership has already indicated that they're looking at all the options to decide which ones build on incorporation the best, from a strategic point of view. CCW is not the only concern. So it might be that they think that CCW is the best thing to pursue first, or they might decide to go after something else (AW ban, LOC, who knows).

Upshot is, patience is still in order. Until they say on this board (or elsewhere), we want all you guys to go apply for a CCW now, it's best to keep your powder dry.

That said, if you live in a county that will issue and you meet the requirements for issuance, then in my opinion you should by all means go for it.

One final point (for All The Right People who might read this). You can't wait too long for that CCW case. Almost certainly some yahoo is going to pop up with a CCW lawsuit in this state, and it's probably going to happen sooner rather than later. If you want it done right, you have to be the first movers on it. If you wait, then it'll be Gary Gorski or one of his clones that'll bring that case. This would be bad. Very, very bad.

mblat
04-21-2009, 10:42 AM
One final point (for All The Right People who might read this). You can't wait too long for that CCW case. Almost certainly some yahoo is going to pop up with a CCW lawsuit in this state, and it's probably going to happen sooner rather than later. If you want it done right, you have to be the first movers on it. If you wait, then it'll be Gary Gorski or one of his clones that'll bring that case. This would be bad. Very, very bad.

That has been my point for a while. There is movement going on concerning all forms of carry.
As any grass root movement it is pretty disorganized and some of it's members are not so "Clean".
We faced with choice - either to attempt to lead it or to live with consequences of not doing so.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-21-2009, 11:25 AM
i dont really have a good idea on what im doing... so i will wait this one out but in the mean time support CGF because they know more than I :)

xLusi0n
04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
I think someone is suing OCSD over the CCW debacle. I would let that be the test case. I think with Nordyke they now stand a much better chance.

yellowfin
04-21-2009, 11:29 AM
The question is, though, that if now isn't the "right time", is that factoring in the lag time between application filed and time to contest a denial? If it takes 6 months and 6 months from now is the ideal time to challenge, doesn't that mean apply very close to now? The Nordyke case took years to get in position to take advantage of Heller---they didn't wait for the ruling to start working on it, did they?

CA_Libertarian
04-21-2009, 11:58 AM
At the Madison Society (www.madison-society.org) annual dinner, President Virgil McVicker announced that we have several plaintiffs already lined up and moving forward on CCW reform suits. IIRC, he also said we're working with CalGuns Foundation on this.

So, if CCW reform is a big issue for you, probably the best you can do is donate to CGF or Madison Society.

CCWFacts
04-21-2009, 12:34 PM
Nor is it something that should be done except by people who REALLY know what they're doing. One bad lawsuit could screw all of us.

One final point (for All The Right People who might read this). You can't wait too long for that CCW case. Almost certainly some yahoo is going to pop up with a CCW lawsuit in this state, and it's probably going to happen sooner rather than later. If you want it done right, you have to be the first movers on it. If you wait, then it'll be Gary Gorski or one of his clones that'll bring that case. This would be bad. Very, very bad.

That is absolutely right. No doubt, right now, today, there is some pro se idiot who is slobbering as he's typing his CCW lawsuit into his 286 computer running Windows 95. He'll print it on his dot matrix, pay the filing fee, and have a lawsuit going. Unfortunately it's not legal for us to bludgeon such people (not even with nunchucks), so the solution is to move quickly. I'm sure the Right People are well aware of the risks we have now, with drooling whackos getting ready to turn in their lawsuits.

Gun rights cases are a history of awful pro se cases, including Silvera, I think Hickman itself, and many others.

xLusi0n
04-21-2009, 1:34 PM
What about the one from the GOP guy who had his CCW revoked by SHEriff?

Librarian
04-21-2009, 2:02 PM
One item is apparently not clear: Nordyke is not yet finished.

It's still possible, though unlikely, for the rest of 9th to demand an en banc re-hearing. It's still possible for Nordykes to appeal - that decision was not made yesterday.

So we're probably a couple of weeks (sorry!) from knowing if that opinion is 'final', for purposes of moving with new cases.

I hope that guy's printer jams ...

sierratangofoxtrotunion
04-21-2009, 2:03 PM
I wonder if this is the piece of the puzzle that somebody like Jim March needs to make CCW reform happen in Contra Costa County with Sheriff Warren Rupf?

ilbob
04-21-2009, 2:24 PM
Maybe you need to wait and see if en banc is invoked or not. It would appear to make sense to wait until that issue is decided at least.

If no en banc, I think you start picking off the easy stuff and get more and more precedent. Once it is settled law in the 9th circuit, start with state court cases.

This is pretty much an uncharted area and you need some maps. The way you get that map is via court cases.

SigShooter
04-21-2009, 2:30 PM
Any word on what TBJ is doing with this. BillyJack never was one for "shall issue".

SigShooter
04-21-2009, 2:33 PM
I wonder if this is the piece of the puzzle that somebody like Jim March needs to make CCW reform happen in Contra Costa County with Sheriff Warren Rupf?

Didn't Jim move to Oregon or Idaho or some other free state? Being in CoCoCo I would love to see CCW reform start here.

CCWFacts
04-21-2009, 2:36 PM
I wonder if this is the piece of the puzzle that somebody like Jim March needs to make CCW reform happen in Contra Costa County with Sheriff Warren Rupf?

I really hope not. I hope he will sit this one out. I like Jim and he has done amazing work on CCW, especially in research, before anyone else was working on this kind of thing. I like his creativity too. But this type of suit needs to be left to the pros.

hoffmang
04-21-2009, 6:06 PM
One final point (for All The Right People who might read this). You can't wait too long for that CCW case. Almost certainly some yahoo is going to pop up with a CCW lawsuit in this state, and it's probably going to happen sooner rather than later. If you want it done right, you have to be the first movers on it. If you wait, then it'll be Gary Gorski or one of his clones that'll bring that case. This would be bad. Very, very bad.

We are all very cognizant of this issue.

The Nordyke en banc risk is very low. Things will move quickly on a couple of fronts.

-Gene

sfpcservice
04-21-2009, 6:10 PM
We are all very cognizant of this issue.

The Nordyke en banc risk is very low. Things will move quickly on a couple of fronts.

-Gene

Gene, first off: THANK YOU and the rest of your senior staff!

Secondly: I was under the impression that since alameda "won", the decision was immediate, meaning incorporation happened that morning. Can one party or the other still request en banc? And when is this decision in effect?

sierratangofoxtrotunion
04-21-2009, 10:31 PM
I really hope not. I hope he will sit this one out. I like Jim and he has done amazing work on CCW, especially in research, before anyone else was working on this kind of thing. I like his creativity too. But this type of suit needs to be left to the pros.

Last I heard he was trying to get himself arrested down in San Diego complaining about voting irregularities.

And I agree, the team currently assembled and organized has so much more power and ability than just one person fighting for their own rights as Jim was. He really did a lot of the early leg work on the CCW issue 10 years ago. But I would applaud if he were to re-enter the picture on this issue working together with CGF.

DDT
04-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Does the Oakland CoP, Sheriff or the Prosecuting Attorney know exactly who Oakland is and who "His Friends" are?

Sounds like a great case.

KWA-S
04-22-2009, 3:43 AM
No doubt, right now, today, there is some pro se idiot who is slobbering as he's typing his CCW lawsuit into his 286 computer running Windows 95. He'll print it on his dot matrix, pay the filing fee, and have a lawsuit going.

Hey, Win 95 was a great OS. Not just for its time, but even today, it still beats Vista in many things like speed, resource usage, annoying pop-ups, graphical style...I have it sitting on a partition on an external drive because of that. (And the clouds background looks spiffy tiled on a 1024x768)

Dot matrix printers are still used in offices today. Doctors, lawyers, etc have multisheet carbon copy forms that an inkjet/laser printer cannot print past the first page on, so expensive, spiffy dot matrixes are used ($400-1200).

Also, I see your 286 and raise you this:

My 1984 Wheelwriter 3 daisy wheel typewriter, in mint condition (minus one burnt out LED) with original instruction cards and Symbol printwheel.

Soldier415
04-22-2009, 4:23 AM
We are all very cognizant of this issue.

The Nordyke en banc risk is very low. Things will move quickly on a couple of fronts.

-Gene
So we will see things start moving and know for certain what those fronts are in about...2 weeks? :D

Or less?

nicki
04-22-2009, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by CCWFacts
I really hope not. I hope he will sit this one out. I like Jim and he has done amazing work on CCW, especially in research, before anyone else was working on this kind of thing. I like his creativity too. But this type of suit needs to be left to the pros.

Last I heard he was trying to get himself arrested down in San Diego complaining about voting irregularities.

And I agree, the team currently assembled and organized has so much more power and ability than just one person fighting for their own rights as Jim was. He really did a lot of the early leg work on the CCW issue 10 years ago. But I would applaud if he were to re-enter the picture on this issue working together with CGF.


Jim is long gone, last time I saw him, he was in Arizona. He is so tied up on voting issues that he has no time left for anything else in his life.

As a friend, I ragged on him about his health. Jim is at a age where poor health choices start catching up with you.

BTW, where I see people developing significant health issues is in their 40's.

I work in the health care field, it is a observation that I have noticed over the last 20 plus years.

That being said. Jim's work is still on line and is still usable, even though it has not been updated.

I talked alot with Jim during his days in dealing with Sheriff Rupf.

Contra Costa would be a "good county" to hit regarding CCW because we already know alot about it.

Jim had a 700 pages of evidence that he was going to use at a Fed CCW lawsuit, but the case got thrown out since the Judge dropped the case down to strict scruntiny.

Jim has expressed interest in a gun lawsuit last time I talked with him Sept 08.
I may go to the NRA convention in Phoenix. I expect he will be around.

Calguns may have something going on there, I just don't have details, but if they do and Jim is around, he would go there.

If there are people in Contra Costa who want to pursue things, I would be open to going there for a workshop. I would run you through Jim's website, explain things as best as I can.

Nicki