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View Full Version : Transporting/storing OLL with Mag-catch completely removed?


Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 7:42 AM
Would transporting/storing an OLL with the mag-catch assembly completely removed CYA the same as having a BB on it?

With the mag-catch removed it can't accept a magazine at all is my line of thinking. Because if a stripped lower receiver "is the gun" and it doesn't have a mag catch or a BB, you can't get dinged for that correct? So if the OLL is completely assembled minus the mag-catch wouldn't that be the same thing?

tactic101
04-21-2009, 7:56 AM
With the mag-catch removed it can't accept a magazine at all is my line of thinking. Because if a stripped lower receiver "is the gun" and it doesn't have a mag catch or a BB, you can't get dinged for that correct? So if the OLL is completely assembled minus the mag-catch wouldn't that be the same thing?


You might be able to convince somebody of that, but I wouldn't do it without removing all evil features. All the advice I've read here is when building your lower, don't add a pistol grip, etc., until you have installed the BB, otherwise you commit a felony by creating an unregistered AW per Cal PC. Not worth the risk. Add BB or remove features.

What is the situation where you want to travel without mag catch or BB?

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 7:59 AM
"What is the situation where you want to travel without mag catch or BB?"

Transporting OLL from out of state residence. I should prolly just get a BB to take over with me and install before return trip. Any one know where I can pick one up in SD? Don't have time for mail order.

or I guess I could do what you said and removed the mag-catch and the pistol grip if that would work?

ohsmily
04-21-2009, 7:59 AM
Would transporting/storing an OLL with the mag-catch assembly completely removed CYA the same as having a BB on it?

With the mag-catch removed it can't accept a magazine at all is my line of thinking. Because if a stripped lower receiver "is the gun" and it doesn't have a mag catch or a BB, you can't get dinged for that correct? So if the OLL is completely assembled minus the mag-catch wouldn't that be the same thing?

If there is a semiautomatic/centerfire upper attached to the lower and you have any features listed in 12776.1 (pistol grip, flash suppressor, etc), then NO, DO NOT just remove the entire magazine catch assembly ever. Your reasoning is flawed because you can insert a magazine and hold the mag in there, fire it, and REMOVE it WITHOUT the use of a tool. This silly dea comes up every few months from someone.

You can just separate the upper and lower and then you can put whatever mag catch you want on it. You can also get one of these fancy new BBs that easily convert to free state status with the turn of a wrench.

eaglemike
04-21-2009, 8:06 AM
You might be able to convince somebody of that, but I wouldn't do it without removing all evil features. All the advice I've read here is when building your lower, don't add a pistol grip, etc., until you have installed the BB, otherwise you commit a felony by creating an unregistered AW per Cal PC. Not worth the risk. Add BB or remove features.

What is the situation where you want to travel without mag catch or BB?
Emphasis added. This comes up often too - but not really correct. The lower assembly could be used for a rimfire upper. Since there isn't constructive possession in Ca, no issue. I often build start with the BB, since it's planned for a featured rifle - but the order isn't required.
all the best,
Mike

ohsmily
04-21-2009, 8:09 AM
All the advice I've read here is when building your lower, don't add a pistol grip, etc., until you have installed the BB, otherwise you commit a felony by creating an unregistered AW per Cal PC. Not worth the risk. Add BB or remove features.


That is an old position taken in an abundance of caution.

As the poster above mentioned, a lower without an upper on it is not semi-automatic nor is it centerfire so it is not subject to PC 12276.1. So, it can have so-called evil features without a magazine lock on it as long as there isn't a semiauto centerfire upper on it.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 8:13 AM
so then removing that mag-catch and detaching the upper from the lower would acheive the desired goal of not getting dinged by the PoPo if I get stopped for some unknown reason on my return trip?

I'm not trying to skirt that law or do anything illegal. I'm trying to make sure I AM legal in whatever fashion for my return trip is all. So if seperating the upper from the lower and removing the mag-catch is sufficient then I'm good to go. Right?

Darklyte27
04-21-2009, 8:20 AM
hmm, its not attachable or detachable, you now entered the spider web of law..

why do you want to make it so complicated, just leave a bullet button on there and you are fine.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 8:24 AM
hmm, its not attachable or detachable, you now entered the spider web of law..

why do you want to make it so complicated, just leave a bullet button on there and you are fine.

If I had one I would and would be the easiest solution. But my trip is coming up on short notice and I don't have a BB physically in my possession nor the time to procure on via mail order and I dont know where to pick one up locally so I'm looking for an alternative that will keep me legal JUST for my trip back home. Once I get home I can procure the required parts to keep everything legal.

tactic101
04-21-2009, 8:30 AM
so then removing that mag-catch and detaching the upper from the lower would acheive the desired goal of not getting dinged by the PoPo if I get stopped for some unknown reason on my return trip?

I'm not trying to skirt that law or do anything illegal. I'm trying to make sure I AM legal in whatever fashion for my return trip is all. So if seperating the upper from the lower and removing the mag-catch is sufficient then I'm good to go. Right?


You could remove the upper alone, as others have suggested. I would go the extra mile and remove any evil features from the lower also if I didn't have a BB to install. 10 minutes that will make your whole trip worry free.

BTW if your trip is by car you could stop at ammo brothers in cerritos or cold war shooters in highland. Call first for availability of the buttons.

ohsmily
04-21-2009, 8:31 AM
so then removing that mag-catch and detaching the upper from the lower would acheive the desired goal of not getting dinged by the PoPo if I get stopped for some unknown reason on my return trip?

I'm not trying to skirt that law or do anything illegal. I'm trying to make sure I AM legal in whatever fashion for my return trip is all. So if seperating the upper from the lower and removing the mag-catch is sufficient then I'm good to go. Right?

Did you read what we wrote?????? Just separate the upper and lower and you can leave your original, standard magazine release on the lower. So, since you missed it before, here it is again, if you separate the upper and lower, you don't have to worry about what type of magazine retention you have. In fact, removing the magazine release does nothing for you in your scenario.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 8:34 AM
Did you read what we wrote?????? Just separate the upper and lower and you can leave your original, standard magazine release on the lower. So, since you missed it before, here it is again, if you separate the upper and lower, you don't have to worry about what type of magazine retention you have. In fact, removing the magazine release does nothing for you in your scenario.

Yep, sorry....I missed that the first time....my computer was acting up. Thanks for the info guys.....that what I needed to know! I just want to make sure my trip home is hassle free, so I'll spend a couple minutes and break it down and be on my way.

ohsmily
04-21-2009, 8:47 AM
Yep, sorry....I missed that the first time....my computer was acting up. Thanks for the info guys.....that what I needed to know! I just want to make sure my trip home is hassle free, so I'll spend a couple minutes and break it down and be on my way.

Excellent. Be safe. Be smart. Don't EVER consent to a search by law enforcement.

bwiese
04-21-2009, 8:56 AM
Would transporting/storing an OLL with the mag-catch assembly completely removed CYA the same as having a BB on it?

With the mag-catch removed it can't accept a magazine at all is my line of thinking. Because if a stripped lower receiver "is the gun" and it doesn't have a mag catch or a BB, you can't get dinged for that correct? So if the OLL is completely assembled minus the mag-catch wouldn't that be the same thing?

If the rifle is fully assembled (i.e, with upper attached) + evil features (PG, FH or telestock) it's an illegal AW and your line of thinking is wrong.

[If the lower is a lower only and no upper attached, it is not a semauto nor is it centerfire nor is it a rifle.]

Note that without any mag catch device, a typical rifle can accept a detachable magazine even if loose - and many rifles can operate and cycle a round or two or more even without mag catch hardware if the mag is held in place manually. And the mag is also a 'detachable' magazine since it can be removed without use of a tool. DON'T DO IT!!

DarkHorse
04-21-2009, 9:19 AM
Just to be smart, place the lower inside of a non-descript container (i.e. something that does not look like a gun case), and store it in your vehicle where it cannot be seen from outside of the vehicle.

Remove your "I Smell Bacon" bumper stickers (J/K...but seriously...)

Make sure all of your lights are in proper working order.

Don't speed excessively.

Verify your license plate tags are up-to-date.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 9:22 AM
If the rifle is fully assembled (i.e, with upper attached) + evil features (PG, FH or telestock) it's an illegal AW and your line of thinking is wrong.

[If the lower is a lower only and no upper attached, it is not a semauto nor is it centerfire nor is it a rifle.]

Note that without any mag catch device, a typical rifle can accept a detachable magazine even if loose - and many rifles can operate and cycle a round or two or more even without mag catch hardware if the mag is held in place manually. And the mag is also a 'detachable' magazine since it can be removed without use of a tool. DON'T DO IT!!

Thanks for the details...I appreciate it...and that's why I came and asked questions BEFORE, to make sure my thinking was correct, which it was not obviously and I appreciate the correction to my erroneous thought process.

Lone_Gunman
04-21-2009, 9:24 AM
If you are really worried about it separate the upper from the lower. UPS the upper back home and drive the lower home. That way if you do get stopped and do get searched for some reason there is no way the 2 parts could spontaneously find themselves configured into an illegal AW right before the LEO found it.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 9:25 AM
Just to be smart, place the lower inside of a non-descript container (i.e. something that does not look like a gun case), and store it in your vehicle where it cannot be seen from outside of the vehicle.

Remove your "I Smell Bacon" bumper stickers (J/K...but seriously...)

Make sure all of your lights are in proper working order.

Don't speed excessively.

Verify your license plate tags are up-to-date.

Tags up to date, will be checking lights before I go. I haven't had a ticket or even been stopped in like 20yrs. I don't drive a ticket magnet car and obey the law so I'm not expecting any issues, but just wanted to cover my bases. And I do know enough to NEVER consent to a search.

bwiese
04-21-2009, 9:27 AM
Also - depending on locale in CA - do not merely rely on disassembled/ separated upper & lower to stop an arrest.

Yes it's legal and you have a readily defendable/winnable case but with "Features + no BB" disassembled you're gonna have to do some fast talkin' if found in a traffic stop.

I would urge you to either (1) remove all features and put a MonsterMan grip on, or (2) get that BB installed ASAP and have it FedExed to you, or (3)
send the upper to your destination and travel with just the lower.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 9:32 AM
Also - depending on locale in CA - do not merely rely on disassembled/ separated upper & lower to stop an arrest.

Yes it's legal and you have a readily defendable/winnable case but with "Features + no BB" disassembled you're gonna have to do some fast talkin' if found in a traffic stop.

I would urge you to either (1) remove all features and put a MonsterMan grip on, or (2) get that BB installed ASAP and have it FedExed to you, or (3)
send the upper to your destination and travel with just the lower.

Would removing the pistol grip from the lower in addition to seperating the upper/lower be sufficient?

Anyone know a shop in SD that stocks BBs?

No FFL required to ship the upper correct?

DarkHorse
04-21-2009, 9:40 AM
Would removing the pistol grip from the lower in addition to seperating the upper/lower be sufficient?

Anyone know a shop in SD that stocks BBs?

No FFL required to ship the upper correct?

Don't forget about folding/collapsible stocks. But yes, that should be god enough.

Don't live in SD, sorry. Somebody in an earlier post mentioned a few stores.

I believe you are correct about mailing the upper.

DDT
04-21-2009, 9:43 AM
Any one know where I can pick one up in SD? Don't have time for mail order.


Mail order it and have it shipped to the address you're visiting to pick up your firearm.

DarkHorse
04-21-2009, 9:51 AM
Mail order it and have it shipped to the address you're visiting to pick up your firearm.

Oooh, good call. Unless he's doing a daytrip to Vegas. Or Kingman, even.

I kid, I kid; nobody goes to Kingman.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 9:51 AM
Don't forget about folding/collapsible stocks. But yes, that should be god enough.

Don't live in SD, sorry. Somebody in an earlier post mentioned a few stores.

I believe you are correct about mailing the upper.


Sounds like I should just break it down and bring home a box of parts to be safe aye? ship everything but the lower reciever minus PG home?

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 9:53 AM
Mail order it and have it shipped to the address you're visiting to pick up your firearm.

dont know that I'd even have time for that unless I overnighted it and tripled the cost of the BB. Still less than gettin' busted for sure, but if there is another options, like just disassembling I'd rather just go that route.

bwiese
04-21-2009, 10:06 AM
Would removing the pistol grip from the lower in addition to seperating the upper/lower be sufficient?

Perhaps. You're dealing with a cop's knowledge of lack of constructive possession.

Most cops are used to seing "weird legal ARs" that have BulletButtons+10rd mags + evil features, or MonsterMan grips + featureless.


Anyone know a shop in SD that stocks BBs?
Ask here - start another thread!


No FFL required to ship the upper correct?
Nope!

jpnosworthy
04-21-2009, 11:00 AM
Sounds like I should just break it down and bring home a box of parts to be safe aye? ship everything but the lower reciever minus PG home?

This is getting insane and stupid. Split the upper and the lower, take the pistol grip off if you really want to, and don't drive like a moron. It's not hard.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 12:08 PM
Crisis averted....located a BB at local shop not to far out of my way. Will be picking one up tonight.

Yes....I do agree it's stupid...that's CA for yuh. I just don't wanna get dinged by The Man! Like I said.....I don't drive like a moron and haven't been stopped in years even though I drive 30-40K miles a year. It's just one of those Murphy's law things yuh know.....don't wanna risk it if a few minutes of disassembly could same me alot of hassle.

Does anyone know what the SoCal CHP's record is with this kinda stuff? They'd likely be the ones I've cross paths with most on my trip home.

WokMaster1
04-21-2009, 1:37 PM
If it helps you sleep better at night, carry a copy of the Sacramento PD memo about the legality of OLL with its BBs.

DDT
04-21-2009, 2:07 PM
This is getting insane and stupid. Split the upper and the lower, take the pistol grip off if you really want to, and don't drive like a moron. It's not hard.


Assuming you don't have a collapsible stock that should be just fine. I'd still pop off the mag release though. Hope your local shop can get you your BB.

Untamed1972
04-21-2009, 2:09 PM
If it helps you sleep better at night, carry a copy of the Sacramento PD memo about the legality of OLL with its BBs.

I do have a copy of the OLL/AW flowchart. Where do I find that SacPD memo? Can't hurt to have that too just in case.

WokMaster1
04-22-2009, 8:09 AM
I do have a copy of the OLL/AW flowchart. Where do I find that SacPD memo? Can't hurt to have that too just in case.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

here you go. Lazy....:p

Untamed1972
04-22-2009, 8:56 AM
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

here you go. Lazy....:p

THANK YOU!!!! You ROCK!!! :thumbsup:

BB was aquired yesterday afternoon to take with me on my trip, so I think I'm good to go. Might still split the upper and lower anyway for extra precaution.