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View Full Version : Buying AK kit--what parts specifically to ask seller to leave out?


pfl101
04-20-2009, 11:23 AM
Auto sear?

"Auto" disconnector?

Are the names incorrect or did I leave other "constructive possession" parts out of the above list?

jamesob
04-20-2009, 11:24 AM
don't leave anything out.

bwiese
04-20-2009, 11:32 AM
Ignore jamesob' advice above - certain parts can cause bad legal trouble.

Tell the vendor - I'd send it in writing! - to ship the kit minus all fire control parts (hammer, trigger, disconnector/sear) and to NOT send any hicap magazine. (Many AK and FAL parts kits typically have 1 hicap mag in them.)

You won't miss these fire control parts anyway since they're gonna need to be replaced by semiauto parts made in the USA for the 922(r) / 27CFR478.39 domestic compliance 10-or-less-key-parts game.

Do not rely on verbal orders over phone. You're dealing with uncontrolled parts stock that's being plucked from the shelves by $6/hr gofers.

And we don't want any screwups to somehow backfire on parts vendors and lead to more folks not shipping to CA.

[Instructions that mags should be sent as disassembled parts may well be accidentally ignored more than the fire control stuff.]

Also: you should NOT order a kit with a "shorty" (below 16") barrel if you own an AK rifle and no virgin pistol receiver.

pfl101
04-20-2009, 11:49 AM
As always, Bill comes through with the specifics and the rationale for them.

Thanks!

jamesob
04-20-2009, 12:18 PM
you will not need those parts but as bweise knows there is no constructive possesion law in cal. i have them send me it all, after all i am paying for everything.

pfl101
04-20-2009, 12:40 PM
"bweise knows there is no constructive possesion law in cal."

I think that statement is contentious, to say the least. There have been legally-minded people like Oaklander who went to the trouble to post about the parts that should be left out.

I just needed some help in terms of phrasing the request so as to be as safe as possible.

bwiese
04-20-2009, 12:40 PM
but as bweise knows there is no constructive possesion law in cal.

Please don't quote my name in support of your illiteracy.

Bwiese doesn't know that, whatsoever: YOU ARE DEAD FRIGGIN' WRONG.

You are conflating concepts across different firearm categories.

Yes, there is no constructive possession for CA-defined AWs/50BMG rifles. BUT there INDEED IS constructive possession for MGs, SBRs, SBSes and DDs in CA (see 12200PC for MGs, 12020(c) definitions for SBRs/SBSes, and 12301 for DDs).

You :
- should NOT have MG firecontrol parts in your possession, esp if you own a rifle;
- should NOT own a short bbl if you own a matching rifle or unless you own a matching
pistol receiver and/or no matching rifle.


i have them send me it all, after all i am paying for everything.

Well, don't go begging here for legal support if you get in trouble. We can't/won't defend you, we have to help the legit folks.

HotRails
04-20-2009, 1:42 PM
Here is the thread Oaklander started

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=84417

It has a diagram that depicts all the parts to be removed.

Mr. J
04-20-2009, 1:46 PM
Since we're on the topic. Can I get a few links for reputable parts kit dealers?

pfl101
04-20-2009, 2:28 PM
Hot Rails,

I never built such a thing before and didn't know the names of the listed parts in the thread. Thanks for the link, though.

Mr. J,

I looked around Gun Broker and saw a lot of kits that had the parts on display. From my limited understanding of such things, they tended to have at least some of the stuff mentioned in Oaklander's thread. Why these guys are selling that stuff is beyond me.

Frankly, I'd be very leery of accepting something in the mail that could winds up having the parts--even if you told them not to send them, you still saw them in the ad and it could be argued that you should have known better.

jamesob
04-20-2009, 2:31 PM
Please don't quote my name in support of your illiteracy.

Bwiese doesn't know that, whatsoever: YOU ARE DEAD FRIGGIN' WRONG.

You are conflating concepts across different firearm categories.

Yes, there is no constructive possession for CA-defined AWs/50BMG rifles. BUT there INDEED IS constructive possession for MGs, SBRs, SBSes and DDs in CA (see 12200PC for MGs, 12020(c) definitions for SBRs/SBSes, and 12301 for DDs).

You :
- should NOT have MG firecontrol parts in your possession, esp if you own a rifle;
- should NOT own a short bbl if you own a matching rifle or unless you own a matching
pistol receiver and/or no matching rifle.




Well, don't go begging here for legal support if you get in trouble. We can't/won't defend you, we have to help the legit folks.
i know washington has a law making mg parts illegal but where does it say in california law that they are illegal?

pfl101
04-20-2009, 2:34 PM
I think Bill posted the PC relating to MG stuff in CA, which is somewhat different from that as defined by the BATFE.

I haven't teased it out myself--and I am not a lawyer--but if guys like Bill, Oaklander and others are telling us to be on our toes, I'm gonna take their advice.

Anyway, you would be violating the Federal law of 1989 (922r) by using that stuff, so why have it other than to be obstinate?

Seems like the issue is how to maximize the chances of not getting the pieces in the first place while still getting the kits.

bwiese
04-20-2009, 2:40 PM
i know washington has a law making mg parts illegal but where does it say in california law that they are illegal?

Read 12200PC for definition of machine gun, which includes some nasty constructive possession phrasing, and 12020(c) definitions of SBR and SBS.

Regardless of where Fed law may be looser you also have to follow CA law.

jamesob
04-20-2009, 2:42 PM
I think Bill posted the PC relating to MG stuff in CA, which is somewhat different from that as defined by the BATFE.

I haven't teased it out myself--and I am not a lawyer--but if guys like Bill, Oaklander and others are telling us to be on our toes, I'm gonna take their advice.

Anyway, you would be violating the Federal law of 1989 (922r) by using that stuff, so why have it other than to be obstinate?

Seems like the issue is how to maximize the chances of not getting the pieces in the first place while still getting the kits.
i know that you can't use the stuff, i just keep it to sell or use for something else. bweise is a very bright guy and i'm not trying to make him look like he doesn't know what he is talking about. and i had a tooth yanked out today so my grammer was thrown out of whack because of the meds.

wildhawker
04-20-2009, 2:52 PM
i know that you can't use the stuff, i just keep it to sell or use for something else. bweise is a very bright guy and i'm not trying to make him look like he doesn't know what he is talking about. and i had a tooth yanked out today so my grammer was thrown out of whack because of the meds.

So, I'd chalk this admission up to the meds and take appropriate action. But hey, that's just me.

And don't worry about making Bill look like he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about- no fear of that anytime soon.

pfl101
04-20-2009, 5:52 PM
Is there any vendor that is reliably taking out unnecessary/potentially illegal parts?

Bill Reid
04-20-2009, 6:45 PM
So, there are AMD-65 kits with short barrel minus receiver for sale. So, I can't build a receiver for one and put it back together? Pardon my ignorance please, I'm a newb :)

Thanks,
Bill