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View Full Version : FFL Holding My WASR!


chrisdesoup
04-17-2009, 7:00 PM
I ordered one of Henderson Defenses CA Compliant WASR 7.62 (link: http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/product.sc?categoryId=17&productId=167 )and I got a notice that it was delivered today!! I went down and the guy says he thinks its an AW and he needs to call the DOJ! I am confused because he has transferred 3 AR's for me over the last few months! I explained the Raddlock but he said "well, it's got a pistol grip and its black" ................ huh? The AR's had pistol grips and were black??????????????????????

I did not want to argue and it would be pointless to do so anyway. He also pointed out that it included 2 sets of mag parts... I let him know they were just that "parts" I have also ordered blocks to make them complaint just through another vendor.

My question is... Am I going to have a problem? I have the AW ID guide from the DOJ already printed and highlighted the detachable mag explanation as well as the AW flowchart from CG.

I'm bummed about this, its my first AK! Why is an OLL AR different than a WASR?:mad:

Nessal
04-17-2009, 7:09 PM
Who is the FFL.

G17GUY
04-17-2009, 7:23 PM
Take a copy of this
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

and this,
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

pnkssbtz
04-17-2009, 7:38 PM
Name that FFL!

kermit315
04-17-2009, 7:46 PM
yeah, if you dont name him, somebody else might run into this crap.

copenhagen269
04-17-2009, 7:49 PM
Name

hoozaru
04-17-2009, 7:51 PM
Did you first check with this FFL dealer to see if he is willing to transfer AK type OLL before you ordered and sent the WASR to him??

ke6guj
04-17-2009, 7:53 PM
Did you check with this FFL dealer to see if he is willing to transfer AK type OLL before you ordered and sent the WASR to him??

+1. Or did you assume that since he was AR-pattern OLL friendly, that he was also AK-pattern friendly as well. Not all are.

DDT
04-17-2009, 7:54 PM
If you don't want to name the FFL here (understandable as he has your property) maybe a PM to Gene would help loosen things up.

jman11
04-17-2009, 7:54 PM
name name name.. why do we not have the name yet????


WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FFL


dont be responsible for not naming this FFL and having another CGN'er go to him and get ripped off or messed around with

lorax3
04-17-2009, 8:10 PM
Bring the above documents to the FFL. Get it all taken care of and get a hold of your weapon before you name the FFL.

No offense to people willing to help, but a bunch of angry phone calls may not help at first. Bring all those documents down to the FFL, appeal to their logic.

Once you educate them, feel free to name them.

If they will not listen to you, please name them....so we can let the dogs out. :)

-lorax

andrewj
04-17-2009, 8:11 PM
name name name.. why do we not have the name yet????


Because the OP is not online. Relax!

Hoop
04-17-2009, 8:16 PM
If it's an OLL friendly ffl who's just a bit confoosed give him a little while before throwing his name out here.

kermit315
04-17-2009, 8:19 PM
Bring the above documents to the FFL. Get it all taken care of out and get a hold of your weapon before you name the FFL.

No offense to people willing to help, but a bunch of angry phone calls may not help at first. Bring all those documents down to the FFL, appeal to their logic.

Once you educate them, feel free to name them.

If they will not listen to you, please name them....so we can let the dogs out. :)

-lorax

I dont think anybody wants to call the guy, but on the other hand, other calgunners dont need to try to do transfers through the guy until its cleared up. No reason for the guy to hold hostage multiple rifles.

xdimitrix
04-17-2009, 8:40 PM
What's the NAME of the farm next to the Hill house?

lioneaglegriffin
04-17-2009, 9:00 PM
name name name.. why do we not have the name yet????


WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FFL


dont be responsible for not naming this FFL and having another CGN'er go to him and get ripped off or messed around with

you guys sound like jack bauer :D

GIVE ME A NAME!

andrewj
04-17-2009, 9:18 PM
you guys sound like jack bauer :D

GIVE ME A NAME!

:rofl2:

http://libertasexemplar.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jack_bauer_torture.jpg

chrisdesoup
04-17-2009, 9:29 PM
Take a copy of this
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

and this,
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

Thanks, I will print it out tomorrow morning.



Did you first check with this FFL dealer to see if he is willing to transfer AK type OLL before you ordered and sent the WASR to him??

No, I assumed he would be okay with an WASR after a few off list AR's. He seemed to have a grasp on the whole BB thing on AR style OLL. The first time I went in he even mentioned that they (AR type OLL's) were in a grey area and that they were not illegal so he didn't mind them.

+1. Or did you assume that since he was AR-pattern OLL friendly, that he was also AK-pattern friendly as well. Not all are.

Yup, that exactly what I did... I made an arse out of myself by assuming... mama always told me never to assume!

you guys sound like jack bauer :D

GIVE ME A NAME!

I don't want to call the guy out just yet, let me try to bring the AW Identification printout from the DOJ and the paperwork G17GUY linked. I will give a name after a visit tomorrow. I understand an FFL has to cover his own butt and I don't blame him for that... He may just need to read the law to understand.

I will post his decision tomorrow.. wish me luck!:thumbsup:

chrisdesoup
04-17-2009, 9:31 PM
Bring the above documents to the FFL. Get it all taken care of out and get a hold of your weapon before you name the FFL.

No offense to people willing to help, but a bunch of angry phone calls may not help at first. Bring all those documents down to the FFL, appeal to their logic.

Once you educate them, feel free to name them.

If they will not listen to you, please name them....so we can let the dogs out. :)

-lorax


Sounds like the best advice! thanks

G17GUY
04-17-2009, 9:37 PM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
Oh don't forget the flowchart, it helps explain things.

hoozaru
04-17-2009, 9:39 PM
if he is still not willing to transfer after showing the documents and flowchart, ask him to send it back to Henderson, or to an AK friendly FFL in your area.

oldschool88
04-17-2009, 9:49 PM
Damn dude, that situation sucks. Hopefully everything gets resolved without any more problems. Best of luck.

chrisdesoup
04-17-2009, 10:02 PM
if he is still not willing to transfer after showing the documents and flowchart, ask him to send it back to Henderson, or to an AK friendly FFL in your area.

Thant brings up a good point... if he decides to not read or reads and still wants to call the DOJ... should I just let him? I read the AW rule book from the DOJ and it seems to me (now Im no attorney) that I'm in the clear... the RADDLOCK does not even use a bullet, it uses a tool! If I start acting weird and telling him to send it back and not call the DOJ I might look like I'm trying to pull a fast one....

UG! I need a beer or two and a tylenolPM :( I have my Fatherinlaw in town all weekend and he just loves to bust my balls and now this.... he overheard me tell my wife what happened and he says "whadda ya need one of those for anyway" I told him "Its just a gun... what makes it any different than any of yours?" at that point my wife said to stop it and we finished dinner in silence.

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

Knight
04-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Holy crap, I just realized that you're in my area, Chris!

PM sent. I know a few of the FFL dealers in the area and I might be able to help.

SJgunguy24
04-17-2009, 11:16 PM
Bring the above documents to the FFL. Get it all taken care of out and get a hold of your weapon before you name the FFL.

No offense to people willing to help, but a bunch of angry phone calls may not help at first. Bring all those documents down to the FFL, appeal to their logic.

Once you educate them, feel free to name them.

If they will not listen to you, please name them....so we can let the dogs out. :)

-lorax

Cheezy......but I had to do it!!!:eek:

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ivanimal
04-17-2009, 11:40 PM
When we have pissed of all of the FFL's where will we buy guns.:confused: Have one of our friendly FFL's give him a call. Try Ten Percent.

SJgunguy24
04-17-2009, 11:46 PM
When we have pissed of all of the FFL's where will we buy guns.:confused: Have one of our friendly FFL's give him a call. Try Ten Percent.

What the hell is crap!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you know common sense and reason has been banned in California since 2000:p

Bad-mofo
04-17-2009, 11:52 PM
So I can't order a black rifle out of state to send it to the closest Turners?

I hope you learned your lesson. Always check if the FFL is onboard with the firearm you're buying. Always notify the FFL about the transfer. Buying a "legalized" evil black rifle is still a very delicate process here, not just the matter of charging your credit card and filling the DROS form.

Can one dealer (FFL) send it to another?

steve40
04-18-2009, 1:41 AM
When we have pissed of all of the FFL's where will we buy guns.:confused: Have one of our friendly FFL's give him a call. Try Ten Percent.


ya, you should try ten percent. that gun store is very black rifle friendly. my friend transfered his ak-47 from henderson as well, and will no problems at all. they sell ar-15 there too, and bought myself a complete ar-15 lower receiver there.

saki302
04-18-2009, 4:19 AM
Easy fix- unscrew the pistol grip, and it's now featureless :D

-Dave

cackinthebox
04-18-2009, 4:30 AM
What's the NAME of the farm next to the Hill house?

ha!

Soldier415
04-18-2009, 6:27 AM
Interested in seeing the outcome of this.

Ford8N
04-18-2009, 6:30 AM
Tagged for THE NAME.

motorhead
04-18-2009, 9:39 AM
ak profiling! discrimination. you just realized that even today few ffls have embraced the kalashnikov. they're just so evil. osama wouldn't look nearly as sinister holding a mini 14.

chrisdesoup
04-18-2009, 9:43 AM
Holy crap, I just realized that you're in my area, Chris!

I know a few of the FFL dealers in the area and I might be able to help.

PM on the way! :thumbsup:


So I can't order a black rifle out of state to send it to the closest Turners?

I hope you learned your lesson. Always check if the FFL is onboard with the firearm you're buying. Always notify the FFL about the transfer. Buying a "legalized" evil black rifle is still a very delicate process here, not just the matter of charging your credit card and filling the DROS form.

Can one dealer (FFL) send it to another?

Yup, I learned the hard way!

ya, you should try ten percent. that gun store is very black rifle friendly. my friend transfered his ak-47 from henderson as well, and will no problems at all. they sell ar-15 there too, and bought myself a complete ar-15 lower receiver there.

Thats why I assumed he would be okay... He transferred 3 AR type OLL's months for me without a second thought. My new rule... ASK even if you think you know the answer!

Easy fix- unscrew the pistol grip, and it's now featureless :D

-Dave

yes, I will ask him that too... sometimes a simple answer is the best!

Darklyte27
04-18-2009, 11:09 AM
tagtag

chrisdesoup
04-18-2009, 4:19 PM
I went down and he is not in... he has the weekends off but will be back on monday.

SKSer
04-18-2009, 11:48 PM
:rofl2:

http://libertasexemplar.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jack_bauer_torture.jpg

GIVE ME A NAME!
I almost woke up my wife I was laughing so hard on this one

glockwise2000
04-19-2009, 1:04 AM
Thant brings up a good point... if he decides to not read or reads and still wants to call the DOJ... should I just let him? I read the AW rule book from the DOJ and it seems to me (now Im no attorney) that I'm in the clear... the RADDLOCK does not even use a bullet, it uses a tool! If I start acting weird and telling him to send it back and not call the DOJ I might look like I'm trying to pull a fast one....

UG! I need a beer or two and a tylenolPM :( I have my Fatherinlaw in town all weekend and he just loves to bust my balls and now this.... he overheard me tell my wife what happened and he says "whadda ya need one of those for anyway" I told him "Its just a gun... what makes it any different than any of yours?" at that point my wife said to stop it and we finished dinner in silence.

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

In laws, geez.

Dr. Peter Venkman
04-19-2009, 3:04 AM
If there is any law that could be readily enforced in the state of CA, it's the "magazine parts kits" that are floating around. I hope you get your WASR; not understanding the need for magazine rebuild kits from a legal perspective.

Amacias805
04-19-2009, 8:35 AM
If there is any law that could be readily enforced in the state of CA, it's the "magazine parts kits" that are floating around. I hope you get your WASR; not understanding the need for magazine rebuild kits from a legal perspective.

because, anyone that has one that was grandfathered in before they became illegal to buy, sell, lend, or transfer (notice it doesn't say posses)

and since there are a lot of people that have magizine before they were banned they are allowed to completely rebuild any broken part or the mag.

hawk1
04-19-2009, 9:31 AM
If there is any law that could be readily enforced in the state of CA, it's the "magazine parts kits" that are floating around. I hope you get your WASR; not understanding the need for magazine rebuild kits from a legal perspective.

To convert into 10 round mags maybe...:TFH:

artherd
04-19-2009, 1:06 PM
Sigh, over 3 years now and they still don't get it.

tombinghamthegreat
04-19-2009, 1:41 PM
Another FFL dealer still spreading FUD.

chrisdesoup
04-20-2009, 9:08 AM
Another FFL dealer still spreading FUD.

+1!!

They open in a few min's I have had 3 cups of coffee (down from my normal 8) and am ready talk!

on a side note I bought a S&W 386 sc/s revolver over the weekend (to make me feel better about the whole WASR thing, sorta like shoe shopping for chicks) and the FFL I made the purchase @ said he normally would not touch it but after looking @ henderson's website and the description of the weapon he will make a one time exception for me! SOOOOO, guess this will be my only AK till I move back to the bay area in december.


OH shoot, I gotta get down to anglin second hand before he calls the DOJ and says "I have an AK47 with a bunch of 30 round mags!" I hope he just reads the paperwork I have and says screw it but if not I have a backup FFL.

Norcalkid
04-20-2009, 9:19 AM
This whole situation sucks. But I have a HDI WASR and love it. You will be glad you went threw the trouble to get it in the end. Good luck.

Mazilla
04-20-2009, 9:30 AM
Anglin second hand, let us know how it turns out....

chrisdesoup
04-20-2009, 9:54 AM
OKAY IM BACK! Talked to him and he will not charge me for anything but says next time just let him know what I am thinking about and he will check and let me know.

He seemed to be more at ease when he found out a respected local FFL was okay with it. I will give him a month or so then go in and ask him if he will xfer a wasr just to see if he will!

Live and learn... just because a FFL is okay with a AR does not mean he's okay with an AK! and always ask first.... that works with women too I hear :)

Thanks for everyones support and advice!!!!

Chris

gunn
04-20-2009, 10:49 AM
OKAY IM BACK! Talked to him and he will not charge me for anything but says next time just let him know what I am thinking about and he will check and let me know.

He seemed to be more at ease when he found out a respected local FFL was okay with it. I will give him a month or so then go in and ask him if he will xfer a wasr just to see if he will!

Live and learn... just because a FFL is okay with a AR does not mean he's okay with an AK! and always ask first.... that works with women too I hear :)

Thanks for everyones support and advice!!!!

Chris
I'm a little confused here. Did you get the original WASR you ordered from Henderson and had delivered to the original FFL? In one month, you are looking to buy a second one from the original FFL or the "respected local FFL"?


If you didn't get the original rifle you ordered from the original FFL and had to either a) pay for shipping or b) pay for restocking @ HDI, that sucks. I don't see
-g

Amacias805
04-20-2009, 12:44 PM
wait, did you start your dros yet, or is he shipping the rifle back, or to another FFL?

chrisdesoup
04-20-2009, 1:08 PM
I'm a little confused here. Did you get the original WASR you ordered from Henderson and had delivered to the original FFL? In one month, you are looking to buy a second one from the original FFL or the "respected local FFL"?


If you didn't get the original rifle you ordered from the original FFL and had to either a) pay for shipping or b) pay for restocking @ HDI, that sucks. I don't see
-g

To anglin (original FFL) the second FFL is respected, this is my first dealing with the guy so I can't speak to his character... at first he (2nd FFL) refused to help me then after some talking agreed to do so.

Its a little weird....

anglin (FFL#1) got the WASR from HDI and freaked started saying it was black and he needed to call the DOJ and it was an illegal AW! I went into FFL#2 and asked if he would help me out he said no... I saw a gun I wanted in his shop so I bought it... midway through the purchase he said he would make an exception and x-fer the WASR from Anglin (FFL#1) to his book and only charge me what anglin (FFL#1) was going to charge for the x-fer. FFL#2 is going to pick up the WASR on his way into the shop tomorrow morning from Anglin (FFL#1)and I can DROS it tomorrow afternoon.

Today I talked to anglin (FFL#1) to let him know I found another FFL (they seem to know each other pretty well) that would x-fer the WASR and I would pay the $25 (He charges $50..$25DROS and$25 for his fee) because I should have asked before I sent a mean arse looking gun to his shop... he says not to worry about the money, he only asks that if I want something like that to give him the info and he will look it up and check it out.. if it jives he will have no problem!:thumbsup:


I want to bring in a web page printout of HDI's CA Compliant WASR and the CG flowchart next month (to FFL#1) and ask him to look into it for me... he may just decide it's okay!!! I just didn't want him to decide it's not okay when he was holding mine!

My major concern in the beginning of situation is the was that anglin (FFL#1) would A; misidentify my WASR as an AK47..B; not mention the RADDLOCK and C: say there were 30rd mags not parts kits to the DOJ....

I can hear it now .....

FFL to DOJ: "This guy is asking me to x-fer a AK47 with a pistol grip and 2 detachable 30rd Hi Cap mags" :willy_nilly:


and for FFL#2, he only decided it would be okay after I started to purchase a weapon there... at first he said NO! I only say he is a "respected local FFL" because FFL#1 anglin changed his tone after I mentioned him... I have not had enough dealings with him to have an opinion... after a few more transactions I might change my mind.

You know what I withdraw my "respected local FFL" comment, it is misleading... I will say they know each other.

supersonic
04-20-2009, 1:40 PM
I went into FFL#2 and asked if he would help me out he said no... I saw a gun I wanted in his shop so I bought it... midway through the purchase he said he would make an exception and x-fer the WASR


Whoever this FFL is.............he's a COMPLETE TOOL. No More, No Less.(He NEVER deserved your business to begin with. Period.):mad: It sounds like your "FFL#1" is a decent guy who was just not "up to speed" on the current status of OLL AK's. All he needs (or, more importantly NEEDED) is the flowchart + the DOJ's letter response to the question regarding mag repair kits being imported into PRK. Actually, when I buy hard-to-find repair kits through GunBroker, I just e-mail the seller a link to http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RK, and it has worked like a charm every single time for me (even when seller has "NO SALES TO CALIFORNIA" already in the auction - this has lead to quite a few out-of-state FFL's to become very friendly and even inquisitive about the whole OLL thing *as they are packing up my parts!!!*:D)

Palindari
04-20-2009, 3:37 PM
"it has a pistol grip and it's black"? :rolleyes:

That's his reason for thinking it's not AW compliant??? What kind of idiot is this FFL dealer?

copenhagen269
04-20-2009, 6:41 PM
Glad things worked out for you.

Mazilla
04-20-2009, 8:10 PM
Jeez, I need to hang out with you more...seems like you buy a ****load of guns. Glad it worked out, but you shouldnt have to throw money around to get a little help IMO.

WokMaster1
04-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Is there a possibility that he's just saving you from a WASR?:eek::p

hoozaru
04-20-2009, 10:26 PM
Is there a possibility that he's just saving you from a WASR?:eek::p

lol, try a saiga next time

COBRA MASTER
04-23-2009, 12:07 AM
YOUR A FRIGGIN TIME WASTER, U WANT HELP BUT ARE JUST PLAYING GAMES AND MAKING CRAP UP.

Thanks, I will print it out tomorrow morning.





No, I assumed he would be okay with an WASR after a few off list AR's. He seemed to have a grasp on the whole BB thing on AR style OLL. The first time I went in he even mentioned that they (AR type OLL's) were in a grey area and that they were not illegal so he didn't mind them.



Yup, that exactly what I did... I made an arse out of myself by assuming... mama always told me never to assume!



I don't want to call the guy out just yet, let me try to bring the AW Identification printout from the DOJ and the paperwork G17GUY linked. I will give a name after a visit tomorrow. I understand an FFL has to cover his own butt and I don't blame him for that... He may just need to read the law to understand.

I will post his decision tomorrow.. wish me luck!:thumbsup:

DDT
04-23-2009, 12:14 AM
YOUR A FRIGGIN TIME WASTER, U WANT HELP BUT ARE JUST PLAYING GAMES AND MAKING CRAP UP.

Thanks for the clear, concise and well written post. The all caps really helped convey your important information.

Lone_Gunman
04-23-2009, 12:41 AM
"it has a pistol grip and it's black"? :rolleyes:

That's his reason for thinking it's not AW compliant??? What kind of idiot is this FFL dealer?

It's Humboldt county. 'Nuff said.

Sinixstar
04-23-2009, 12:50 AM
Glad it worked out.
I know it sucks - and it's easy to get pretty P.O.'d at these guys. Just remember, as difficult and frustrating as it is for us - imagine what it's like for them.

Soldier415
04-23-2009, 5:37 AM
YOUR A FRIGGIN TIME WASTER, U WANT HELP BUT ARE JUST PLAYING GAMES AND MAKING CRAP UP.
I am intrigued by your thoughts and ideas. Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

JohnnyRooks
04-23-2009, 6:27 AM
although some gun store ins the modesto area are selling stripped lowers but the majority believes on the :fud::willy_nilly:

so i have to drive all the way to FREMONT to Irvington arms for transfers. :thumbsup:

some FFL's are just that...