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View Full Version : Hi-Cap Exemption for LEOs?


ParallaxTactical.com
04-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Hi there,

An officer recently inquired about my rebuild kits. It is his intention to buy them and build them into hi-cap magazines (Post Jan 1, 2000.) I'm aware there are exemptions for LEOs for high capacity magazines, but I couldn't find the relevant penal code sections.

My question is: 1) Is it legal for an officer to buy rebuild kits (parts) and build them into a hi-cap magazine? 2) Where are the relevant penal code sections?

Thanks!

Requiem
04-17-2009, 11:02 AM
howserbout military?

eta34
04-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Just for clarification, I am the one who asked. I am looking for hi-cap mags, not to build rebuild kits into hi-caps.

9mmdude
04-17-2009, 11:24 AM
Here is the exemption under 12020 pc for Peace Officers: It states 12020 PC does not apply under the following conditions with the below paragraph being the exemption.

The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

The officer could buy them outright but I don't believe manufacturing them would be legal.

jksupplyco
04-17-2009, 3:17 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo.php

Jwood562
04-17-2009, 7:44 PM
Here is the exemption under 12020 pc for Peace Officers: It states 12020 PC does not apply under the following conditions with the below paragraph being the exemption.

The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

The officer could buy them outright but I don't believe manufacturing them would be legal.

what do you mean manufacturer? you mean a LEO cannot put together a "rebuild kit" sold by a non-LEO?

9mmdude
04-17-2009, 8:26 PM
Read what the exemption in 12020 states: Nothing about manufacturing a magazine. I am not saying it makes sense I am saying the law does not allow it.

I never said it made any sense!

PRKArms
04-17-2009, 8:28 PM
Just for clarification, I am the one who asked. I am looking for hi-cap mags, not to build rebuild kits into hi-caps.

Call us we can help!

tyrist
04-17-2009, 9:42 PM
They cannot manufacture one....now a very real argument could be made that he just bought a hi cap disassembled and was not manufacturing.

Ron-Solo
04-17-2009, 11:23 PM
On somewhat related note, get your hi-caps before you retire. My partner and I stopped by our favorite gun store on our way back from him exchanging his active credentials for his retirement credentials after 29 years. He asked about buying another hi-cap and was told he couldn't buy them anymore. Just shows you how freaking stupid our laws have become.

I'm going out in two years, so I'm stocking up boys and girls.

Aloha!

ParallaxTactical.com
04-18-2009, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the responses, we both learned something today!

Luckily, the customer found a local store that could sell him hi-cap magazines.

BigDogatPlay
04-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Just for clarification, I am the one who asked. I am looking for hi-cap mags, not to build rebuild kits into hi-caps.

If you are anywhere near the North (SF) Bay, contact...

Markell Inc.
1520 Mark West Springs Rd.
Santa Rosa, CA
707-573-0792

Great guy whose primary focus is LEO.

Jonathan Doe
04-18-2009, 5:37 PM
I just bought three 20 round factory magazines from Sig for my P226 delivered to me this week at a great price. No problem, period.

yzernie
04-18-2009, 6:39 PM
He asked about buying another hi-cap and was told he couldn't buy them anymore. Just shows you how freaking stupid our laws have become.
Retired LEO's can buy non-roster guns. There is no reason they cannot buy high cap mags.

9mmdude
04-19-2009, 7:40 AM
Retired LEO's can't do either. You are not a peace officer once you retire.

BigDogatPlay
04-19-2009, 10:46 AM
/\ +1

Honorably retired carries no peace officer authority and CCW is at the pleasure of the CLEO of the agency you retire from.

No off roster, other than PPT and no new high / standard capacity mags.

Dollar
04-20-2009, 12:39 AM
I know about peace officers having hi cap mags for handguns for off duty weapons is legal (I always thought), so does that also apply for rifle mags for personal use?

What online sites would sell and send hi cap rifle mags to California for peace officers (that send creds)?

Also, going out of state and purchasing hi cap rifle mags and coming back to california, leos would be legally exempt right?

Jonathan Doe
04-20-2009, 8:46 AM
Last year, I ordered a Sig P226 with 3 hi cap mag from a dealer out of state with a copy of ID without a problem. I guess it depends on the dealers.

Ron-Solo
04-20-2009, 2:56 PM
I recently ordered hi-cap mags directly from Sig. They required an e-mail from my Departmentlal e-mail account and could only ship to the agency address and I called and gave them my credit card info over the phone. They were really good about it.

I've found the policies vary by company and what documentation they want to support your LEO status.

Sig ROCKS in their customer service.

bombadillo
04-20-2009, 3:13 PM
So you couldn't buy a rebuild kit and put it together as an LEO?? This just doesn't make sense at all. Its not construction of a magazine is it. Its just assembling a high cap magazine. Also as an LEO, are you required to show when you purchased them and have receipts for all of these things or what is the deal with that? Whats to stop the original transaction that the O.P. suggested?

tyrist
04-20-2009, 4:02 PM
So you couldn't buy a rebuild kit and put it together as an LEO?? This just doesn't make sense at all. Its not construction of a magazine is it. Its just assembling a high cap magazine. Also as an LEO, are you required to show when you purchased them and have receipts for all of these things or what is the deal with that? Whats to stop the original transaction that the O.P. suggested?

It does not make sense but many laws do not. I believe if you did assemble new magazines from kits you could make an argument in court that you just purchased and assembled a hi cap magazine in the first place. However since it's not spelled out in the exemption I would avoid doing it. Since I can just buy whatever magazines I want there really is no incentive to buy parts kits unless I need parts.

bombadillo
04-20-2009, 5:00 PM
I guess I'm just not distinguishing the difference of whether or not it is purchased as an assembled magazine or in parts. As law enforcement, its probably not going to matter either way and I'd go the easiest route of acquiring them whatever that may be.

dachan
04-20-2009, 5:55 PM
PC 12020 (a) (2) prohibits the manufacture, import, sale, gife or lease of hi-capacity magazines. PC 12020 (b) (20) allows for the sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation of large capacity magazines by a sworn peace officer. Manufacture of was (perhaps inadvertently) not mentioned.

To purchase a large capacity magazine, a sworn peace officer may purchase it from out of state and legally import it. Various sellers have differing policies, from no sales to CA, to requesting a copy of your ID. A sworn peace officer may also purchase from a vendor within CA who possess a hi-cap permit, as called out in PC 12079. PC 12020 (b) (26) allows for such licenses parties to legally import hi-cap mags into CA. Again, such vendors will have differing polices regarding sale to sworn peace officers, from department letterhead to seeing your ID.

ParallaxTactical.com
04-21-2009, 9:28 AM
I believe the simple answer to this is that the LEO is not buying a disassenbled hi-cap, but rather parts as the kit wasn't a magazine in California. Classifying parts as a magazine is incorrect as there is no "constructive possession."

So you couldn't buy a rebuild kit and put it together as an LEO?? This just doesn't make sense at all. Its not construction of a magazine is it. Its just assembling a high cap magazine. Also as an LEO, are you required to show when you purchased them and have receipts for all of these things or what is the deal with that? Whats to stop the original transaction that the O.P. suggested?

code33
06-13-2009, 11:48 PM
Jumping in this a little late...

Exemption?

PC 12020(b)(30)(B)
The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a
sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with
Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a
firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

ke6guj
06-14-2009, 12:16 AM
sure looks like that would work.

It appears that everybody read down the exemptions in 12020, and ran across 12020(b)(20) and stopped past it.

retired
06-14-2009, 1:36 AM
On somewhat related note, get your hi-caps before you retire. My partner and I stopped by our favorite gun store on our way back from him exchanging his active credentials for his retirement credentials after 29 years. He asked about buying another hi-cap and was told he couldn't buy them anymore. Just shows you how freaking stupid our laws have become.

I'm going out in two years, so I'm stocking up boys and girls.

Aloha!

I sure wish I had thought about that. When I retired, the dept. made me turn in all 3 mags. Since I bought the Beretta, they returned 2 of the mags. When I asked for the 3rd also, they said they couldn't. The clerk couldn't give me a definitive answer as to why tho. )

About a year later, I found out from the range sgt. at BC it was because Beretta only furnished 2 mags and the county bought the other one. Now, that really didn't explain why they couldn't sell it, since they sold me the gun and the other 2, but I didn't push it as I didn't want to create any problems.

eltee
06-14-2009, 4:16 PM
Here is the exemption under 12020 pc for Peace Officers: It states 12020 PC does not apply under the following conditions with the below paragraph being the exemption.

The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt
of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

The officer could buy them outright but I don't believe manufacturing them would be legal.

Under that section, it appears to me that the exemption is not limited to duty/off duty firearms. I see it to mean that if you owned a registered AW, OLL, .22 cal. rifle or pistol, etc. (most anything) which had no relation to your profession, you could still:
1. Buy high cap mags
2. Retain those high cap mags when you retire

Am I correct?

What if I go shooting with a family member and they are in my immediate presence, do I need to switch out to 10 rounders?

ke6guj
06-14-2009, 4:22 PM
Under that section, it appears to me that the exemption is not limited to duty/off duty firearms. I see it to mean that if you owned a registered AW, OLL, .22 cal. rifle or pistol, etc. (most anything) which had no relation to your profession, you could still:
1. Buy high cap mags
2. Retain those high cap mags when you retire

Am I correct? yes, you can buy large-capacity magazines for anything you wish, and are not required to turn them in when you require.

What if I go shooting with a family member and they are in my immediate presence, do I need to switch out to 10 rounders?nope, if they are in your immediate presence, you may loan them your large-capacity magazines. A non-LEO with large-caps can do the same.



edit:

Policy Change Regarding State Exemptions for Authorized Peace Officers

Effective immediately, peace officers who have legislative authority to carry and use firearms may, without a letter signed by the head of their agency or the agency head's designee, purchase non-rostered handguns and/or large capacity magazines. The peace officer must present a valid peace officer identification card and the dealer must retain a copy of the identification card on file. (PC 12132 & 12133). A letter is still required from the head of the agency to exempt the peace officer from the ten day waiting period. (PC 12078).
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo.php

Fire in the Hole
06-14-2009, 5:33 PM
On a somewhat related note, I asked DOJ if retired LEO's could buy Hi-caps. The answer was no. I then asked that if an active LEO bought a bunch of Hi-caps then subsequently retired, was he upon retirement, and now a civilian, allowed to own, carry, and use the Hi-Caps. DOJ responded by saying that there was law that restricted the use or ownership of Hi-caps purchased by an active LEO that later retired. And since there are no serial numbers on magazines, they can not be traced to a purchaser, owner, nor date of purchase. Well about 8 years years ago I started buying up Hi-caps for guns that were only on my wish list at the time, in anticipation of a future gun purchase. I've got a butt load of some nice Hi-caps to motivate me to buy the guns that fit them. Something to think about for you LEO's that can see the retirement light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter. LOL

DANGERCLOSE
06-15-2009, 4:24 PM
note to self = buy stock in magpul

eltee
06-16-2009, 5:02 PM
I notice they didn't give a special receipt or anything. They check your badge and ID, make a copy of the ID, then just give you a cash register receipt.

After a cop retires, how does he/she show that the mags were purchased while still on active duty status??

Also, what about cops who get terminated for cause. I don't see anything about them so if a cop is fired he can still keep and use his high caps?

Jonathan Doe
06-16-2009, 5:34 PM
When I went to the Sig armorer school in March, I ordered three 20 round mags for my P226 from the company and received them without a problem.

Jonathan Doe
06-16-2009, 5:35 PM
Just for clarification, I am the one who asked. I am looking for hi-cap mags, not to build rebuild kits into hi-caps.

Contact Magpul. My supervisor ordered several and I tagged along for ten 30 round mags and received without a problem.