PDA

View Full Version : URGENT Need help w/ turning in guns


dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 1:18 PM
About two months ago, I was involved in a very brief fist fight with a guy. We exchanged no more than a punch each. The details need not be disclosed because there is a pending litigation.

Anyway, this person has filed for a protective order, under California Civil Procedure Code 527.6. I think this is very silly considering it was just a scuffle, and I never intend to use my guns on good citizens, but I'm not here to argue the merits of the case.

Anyway, 30 minutes ago, I was served the complaint AND a temporary restraining order. It says I must turn in my guns to a dealer or the police within 24 hours of receiving this order. So I have to do it tomorrow, I guess.

My question is this - If I turn in my guns to the police, will I get my guns back once the restraining order expires? Or should I just sell my guns to a dealer and get whatever money I can?

I must do this in 24 hours (23 1/2 now). Please advise!! Thank you.

lazyworm
04-16-2009, 1:22 PM
would be better for you financially if you can "sell" them to a friend for safe
keeping until this blows over.

Also, talk to your FFL, they might be willing to store them for you for a fee.

*sell -- legally transfer, but with a promise to transfer back to you later.

n2k
04-16-2009, 1:22 PM
I would contact a lawyer to discuss the best resolution:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=165638



Also, do you have family you can transfer the guns to?

yellowfin
04-16-2009, 1:26 PM
If there is a suit pending, tack this on as another thing you're suing him for.

Stan_Humphries
04-16-2009, 1:30 PM
Transfer to family... the only fee is registration of handguns and a form to fill out. No waiting period or anything.

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 1:30 PM
I don't know yet if private party transfer will suffice for this purpose. I will call some FFLs and see if they have any experience in this regard.

Thanks for the help and not accusing me of being a bad person... This guy knows I'm a gun owner and is just trying to cause some headache for me. I'll talk to an attorney tomorrow.

Untamed1972
04-16-2009, 1:30 PM
ditto everyone else...transfer them to family if you can.

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 1:38 PM
Just talked to FFL... looks like private party transfer is ok. Will do it tomorrow. $35/gun... holy crap that's nearly $200 for me :chris:

Thanks for the quick responses

glock_this
04-16-2009, 1:42 PM
$200 might turn out to be cheap considering the alternatives... sucks, but might be the lesser of all evils.

ke6guj
04-16-2009, 1:48 PM
Just talked to FFL... looks like private party transfer is ok. Will do it tomorrow. $35/gun... holy crap that's nearly $200 for me :chris:

Thanks for the quick responses

Its only $35 for the first gun if you are PPTing them all to one person, the rest would be less.
What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, you are restricted to charging no more than $25.00 in State fees described and $10.00 per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.
For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082)

n2k
04-16-2009, 1:51 PM
This may apply:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/sb950frm1107.pdf

A person who is subject to a protective order (as defined in Family Code Section 6218) is subject to
special rules. Such a person must do both of the following:
1) Within 24 hours of being served with notice of the protective order, surrender all firearms to the control
of local law enforcement officials, or sell the firearm(s) to a licensed gun dealer; but
Immediately surrender the firearm(s) to a law enforcement officer upon an officer’s request. (Fam.
Code, § 6389, subd. (c)(2).)
2) Within 48 hours of receiving the order, provide proof to the court that issued the order that all firearms
have been relinquished.
Note: A person who has Power of Attorney for Firearms Relinquishment, Sale or Disposal in a case where a
protective order is issued must surrender the firearms to the control of local law enforcement officials, or sell the
firearms to a licensed gun dealer on behalf of the gun owner within the times set forth above so that the gun
owner is able to comply with the law.

trinydex
04-16-2009, 1:54 PM
can't a lawyer just hold them somehow? isn't that what lawyers are for?

would transfering to family be affected by the "maximum" number of ppts in a year?

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 2:09 PM
can't a lawyer just hold them somehow? isn't that what lawyers are for?

would transfering to family be affected by the "maximum" number of ppts in a year?

There is a cap on PPTs each year??

What about the "one handgun per month" limit? That doesn't apply to PPTs, right?

ke6guj
04-16-2009, 2:12 PM
for you, the seller:
12070(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.

For the buyer, PPTs are exempt from the 1 handgun a month limit, except for places like the city of LA, which has its own 1-a-month regs.

Sig226
04-16-2009, 2:14 PM
can't a lawyer just hold them somehow? isn't that what lawyers are for?


Yes, this is an option, but might cost more than the PPT fees on that lot of firearms. (~ $200 for the lot in PPT fees according to the OP).



would transfering to family be affected by the "maximum" number of ppts in a year?


ETA: WOW! I guess I never really read 12070(c)(1). So if you have done <5 PPTs this year, you should be GtG.

As you know since you used quotes, there is no codified maximum---one just cannot be in the business of selling firearms via PPT. (it comes down to intent IMO) I think it is very clear here that you are not selling these firearms as a business or for profit----but to keep your butt out of jail.

G'luck with all this

lazyworm
04-16-2009, 2:17 PM
There is a cap on PPTs each year??

What about the "one handgun per month" limit? That doesn't apply to PPTs, right?

as noted above, cap is on the number of transactions. So if you PPT all your guns to 1 person at the same time, that's 1 transaction.

sholling
04-16-2009, 2:19 PM
A friend had to take possession of his son's guns. Turners had a special transfer form and $50 transfered a 1/2 dozen rifles and shotguns.

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 2:29 PM
A friend had to take possession of his son's guns. Turners had a special transfer form and $50 transfered a 1/2 dozen rifles and shotguns.

Who is Turners and do you have his contact info?

Spelunker
04-16-2009, 2:35 PM
Turners outdoorsman its a local gun dealer with multiple locations

http://www.turners.com/

trinydex
04-16-2009, 2:37 PM
Yes, this is an option, but might cost more than the PPT fees on that lot of firearms. (~ $200 for the lot in PPT fees according to the OP).




ETA: WOW! I guess I never really read 12070(c)(1). So if you have done <5 PPTs this year, you should be GtG.

As you know since you used quotes, there is no codified maximum---one just cannot be in the business of selling firearms via PPT. (it comes down to intent IMO) I think it is very clear here that you are not selling these firearms as a business or for profit----but to keep your butt out of jail.

G'luck with all this
what you strike is precisely the problem, while there's no strict definition i don't think it's a stretch to suggest you're being watched if you do more than 5 ppts. i think most people that collect have more than 5 guns. being in such a situation just sucks.

sholling
04-16-2009, 3:02 PM
what you strike is precisely the problem, while there's no strict definition i don't think it's a stretch to suggest you're being watched if you do more than 5 ppts. i think most people that collect have more than 5 guns. being in such a situation just sucks.In this case I don't see how it matters unless I'm just missing something. In California there are enough forced overnight transfers due to restraining orders and/or criminal convictions that there has been a streamlined process in place for a long time. It was created to allow for a rapid transfer of lots of guns to family members complete with a proof of transfer to make the courts happy.

Seesm
04-16-2009, 3:24 PM
Just talked to FFL... looks like private party transfer is ok. Will do it tomorrow. $35/gun... holy crap that's nearly $200 for me :chris:

Thanks for the quick responses

Sooo do you have a buddy who is a FFL he can put em in his book and safe to keep till your all clear... careful with your fists... The other person (ahh lame to put that on you) :(

xLusi0n
04-16-2009, 3:25 PM
Sounds like this service can become a good PT business :D

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 3:28 PM
BTW if anyone knows any attorney w/ experience in defending civil restraining order suits, please refer them to me. Thanks.

dboy4ever
04-16-2009, 3:32 PM
Sooo do you have a buddy who is a FFL he can put em in his book and safe to keep till your all clear... careful with your fists... The other person (ahh lame to put that on you) :(

This "other person" is a bigger guy than me. For him to seek protection from me just seems absurd and can only be explained by a motive to cause some headache for me. But I wouldn't be surprised if the CA laws and the judge disfavor gun owners.

Librarian
04-16-2009, 4:02 PM
In this case I don't see how it matters unless I'm just missing something. In California there are enough forced overnight transfers due to restraining orders and/or criminal convictions that there has been a streamlined process in place for a long time. It was created to allow for a rapid transfer of lots of guns to family members complete with a proof of transfer to make the courts happy.

The T stands for 'transactions' - perfectly legal to transfer more than one gun in a single transaction - the 5 is 5 occasions in a year, any number of guns per occasion/transaction.

jas000
04-16-2009, 4:23 PM
So, what if one of the guns was a registered assault weapon? Can't transfer that. And looks like it requires "surrender to police or sell to dealer", so would that mean so long AW forever?

Swiss
04-16-2009, 4:37 PM
So, what if one of the guns was a registered assault weapon? Can't transfer that. And looks like it requires "surrender to police or sell to dealer", so would that mean so long AW forever?

Ohhhh...good question.

aileron
04-16-2009, 5:27 PM
Just curious... but what happens if someone hides the guns and say's go pound sand?

I'm not recommending this as a course of action.... so please don't think I am.

Spelunker
04-16-2009, 5:32 PM
Just curious... but what happens if someone hides the guns and say's go pound sand?

I'm not recommending this as a course of action.... so please don't think I am.

Not sure of the answer to that, but it sounds like a good way to go to pound me in the a** prison.

rabagley
04-16-2009, 6:02 PM
Most of my firearms are in storage in Texas. Some of the handguns have been registered in CA so that I can carry them back and forth and not worry about it.

How would I prove that I had legally relinquished all of my firearms within 24 or even 48 hours since I don't have practical access to them in that timeframe?

F-2_Challenger
04-16-2009, 7:13 PM
DO NOT TURN THEM INTO THE POLICE!!!!!

lbdrummer3
04-16-2009, 7:29 PM
:thumbsup: on this, you will never get them back with out costing you more money than they are worth. My friend lost all of his guns do to a restraining order with his divorce. He never saw them again because it took 2 years to finalize.

I am curious about he AW question also. I guess you would have to turn in a stripped lower??? If it were me I would strip all of my guns down to receivers and give the cops a box of metal...

DO NOT TURN THEM INTO THE POLICE!!!!!

Seesm
04-16-2009, 8:11 PM
:thumbsup: on this, you will never get them back with out costing you more money than they are worth. My friend lost all of his guns do to a restraining order with his divorce. He never saw them again because it took 2 years to finalize.

I am curious about he AW question also. I guess you would have to turn in a stripped lower??? If it were me I would strip all of my guns down to receivers and give the cops a box of metal...

Good idea receivers only... if you near me I have a local shop we can meet at and do a legal agreement you will get em back or the shopWILL hold em they have done it before to help people out. SUCKS

This "other person" is a bigger guy than me. For him to seek protection from me just seems absurd and can only be explained by a motive to cause some headache for me. But I wouldn't be surprised if the CA laws and the judge disfavor gun owners.

So he is one of those B*g P*ssy ****ots who calls his Mom cuz he had a hard day?... so lame.

MT1
04-16-2009, 8:19 PM
Do they even have to be transferred? Won't the renting a space from a friend/family with a signed form work because he will no longer be in possession of the guns?

GuyW
04-16-2009, 8:42 PM
These work-arounds don't look like such meet the letter of the law posted above....

...this unConstitutional Family Law / restraining order crap needs to be overturned (a long time ago)...
.

KylaGWolf
04-16-2009, 9:27 PM
Just curious... but what happens if someone hides the guns and say's go pound sand?

I'm not recommending this as a course of action.... so please don't think I am.

Lets see you become in violation of the RO and well they can haul your rear to jail till you comply oh and then they break in to your house and take your guns and more than likely WON'T get them back at all.

nagorb
04-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Just talked to FFL... looks like private party transfer is ok. Will do it tomorrow. $35/gun... holy crap that's nearly $200 for me :chris:

Thanks for the quick responses

I have no problem shooting them until its all resolved:43: seriously though if you don't have someone to help you out I'm a little north of you.

ZRX61
04-16-2009, 11:39 PM
How do they know how many guns you have?

E Pluribus Unum
04-17-2009, 12:43 AM
How do they know how many guns you have?

They know about the handguns purchased after about the mid 90s (I forget the exact date, but I know 1998 is in the database cuz that is when I bought my first handgun.

Long rifles and shotguns that are not registered AW, the government has no clue about. (theoretically)

colossians323
04-17-2009, 3:58 AM
I have ample room to store the guns for you, and would be willing to sign a contract with you ensuring that you would receive all of your property back after the TRO expired at no cost other than the dros.
I am posting this publicly to let you know there are options, if you have no one to transfer them to.

If the moderators feel this is out of place or that this post may cause some legal issues. please delete

Sean

ilbob
04-17-2009, 6:22 AM
can you store them out of state?

sanb909
04-17-2009, 7:31 AM
I heard that you could "potentially" store them with a relative (friend might be pushing it) far away. There would have to be an understanding that you were not to get them back during the time that the order was in effect. In fact, the person storing them might have to come to the court that issued the order and swear that they wouldn't give them back until it was deemed OK by the court.

I have the bad feeling that you're stuck with one of the following options:

1. Sell them with the understanding that you can rebuy for DROS fees.

2. Give them to the police for storage--can be returned but requires paperwork, etc.

Disassembling them to the receiver is a cool idea, though, especially with ARs.

Turbinator
04-17-2009, 7:51 AM
I see you're on Palo Alto. You can also use Rob Blank in Milpitas to store or transfer the firearms. Give him a call, his shop is RMB Enterprises and we've posted his info here before.

Turby

Flintlock Tom
04-17-2009, 7:57 AM
I was in a similar situation, accused of a felony. I took my guns to my in-laws house and put them in a closet.
I told the judge "I no longer have any guns". He asked where they went. I said "I no longer have any guns".
After the police returned the few guns the were able to find, I went back and got them out of the closet.

dboy4ever
04-17-2009, 9:25 AM
Thanks for all the info and offers to help, gang. Really appreciate it.

I'll transfer all my guns to a friend today. I hope the judge will see through all the crap and deny his request at the trial. If I lose... sigh... well, my friend would be very happy for a few years :rolleyes:

Asphodel
04-17-2009, 10:57 AM
We know of another 'restraining order' matter, about which I sought advice here.

Several people here suggested that the person involved contact Don Kilmer, for legal representation, and this person did so.

Don is well and truly famous in the field of Second Amendment legal work, and has certainly earned his fame, over the years (re 'Nordyke', of course, but much more as well)

He is located in San Jose, and easily found on-line.

Now, there are a couple of thoughts which occurs to me, as potentially useful service to the gun-owning public which might be developed through contact on the Calguns site.

One is a long-term project. It would appear that existing 'restraining order' law would seem to create an inappropriately easy opportunity for an act of 'revenge' or 'legal harassment' by 'abuse of process'.

The establishment of a 'reform movement' to provide a point of contact for victims of this class of 'abuse of process', and to solicit funding for legal and political representation of this class of victim, would be a step in the correct direction.

If I understand correctly, under current law, there need be no actual 'fist-fight' or physical altercation of any kind, or even a clearly demonstrated threat of an action of physical violence. The impression I have (subject to correction, of course) is that a simple verbal disagreement, not necessarily amounting to 'verbal abuse' as such, could be alleged to 'create a climate of fear', under which the complainant alleges justification for a restraining order.

The potential implications of this capability, if factual, are staggering, actually.

As we know, there are some large number of people here in California who profess a 'belief' in 'unilateral disarmament', in a way which suggests a parallel to a belief in a body of religious doctrine, which specifies that the doctrinal position must be enforced, by any means necessary, against 'unbelievers'. (think 'Islam')

Its not too far-fetched to envision some number of the 'gun-control' political activists provoking unpleasant discussions with gun owners, then claiming that they had been made to feel 'a fear of violence' or some such, in a filing for restraining order.

If I understand correctly, the mere filing of a request for a restraining order 'triggers' a court order for the dispossession of firearms by the victim, pending resolution of the restraining order matter. This, as we then see, creates the 'perfect storm' legal climate for harassment of peaceable, non-criminal gun owners.

I don't know how a 'reform movement' should best be developed and structured, but, doubtless, there are legal scholars here who will have some useful appreciation of the situation......actually, for all I know, some number of them may be working on this class of item at present. If so, a 'movement' to raise funding, and public awareness, would seem desirable.

Would political action of this nature be an appropriate use of a segment of the Calguns site?

Would someone connected with the Calguns site care to comment?

Another thought comes to mind.

If, as one may reasonably fear, this 'abuse of process' situation becomes more commonly used to disarm peaceable individuals, and will continue for some time in its present configuration, then could not someone or some firm, with the appropriate licencing, act as a 'bonded warehouse' for compliance with such matters?

It would seem reasonable that the 'bonded warehouse' secured storage concept would comply with the alleged purpose of the court ordered disarmament of the victim, given the 'temporary' nature of the order, pending further court process for the adjutication of the matter.

Would I be mistaken in that impression?

cheers

Carla

lbdrummer3
04-17-2009, 12:04 PM
The bonded warehouse idea is a good one but with whom would the bond be filed with. In a standard bonded warehouse, the bond is posted with Customs and Border Protection for goods stored on their behalf. Would a bond have to be filed with the city, county or state so the warehouse operator could hold "state" property? This is a great question.

Fred

We know of another 'restraining order' matter, about which I sought advice here.

Several people here suggested that the person involved contact Don Kilmer, for legal representation, and this person did so.

Don is well and truly famous in the field of Second Amendment legal work, and has certainly earned his fame, over the years (re 'Nordyke', of course, but much more as well)

He is located in San Jose, and easily found on-line.

Now, there are a couple of thoughts which occurs to me, as potentially useful service to the gun-owning public which might be developed through contact on the Calguns site.

One is a long-term project. It would appear that existing 'restraining order' law would seem to create an inappropriately easy opportunity for an act of 'revenge' or 'legal harassment' by 'abuse of process'.

The establishment of a 'reform movement' to provide a point of contact for victims of this class of 'abuse of process', and to solicit funding for legal and political representation of this class of victim, would be a step in the correct direction.

If I understand correctly, under current law, there need be no actual 'fist-fight' or physical altercation of any kind, or even a clearly demonstrated threat of an action of physical violence. The impression I have (subject to correction, of course) is that a simple verbal disagreement, not necessarily amounting to 'verbal abuse' as such, could be alleged to 'create a climate of fear', under which the complainant alleges justification for a restraining order.

The potential implications of this capability, if factual, are staggering, actually.

As we know, there are some large number of people here in California who profess a 'belief' in 'unilateral disarmament', in a way which suggests a parallel to a belief in a body of religious doctrine, which specifies that the doctrinal position must be enforced, by any means necessary, against 'unbelievers'. (think 'Islam')

Its not too far-fetched to envision some number of the 'gun-control' political activists provoking unpleasant discussions with gun owners, then claiming that they had been made to feel 'a fear of violence' or some such, in a filing for restraining order.

If I understand correctly, the mere filing of a request for a restraining order 'triggers' a court order for the dispossession of firearms by the victim, pending resolution of the restraining order matter. This, as we then see, creates the 'perfect storm' legal climate for harassment of peaceable, non-criminal gun owners.

I don't know how a 'reform movement' should best be developed and structured, but, doubtless, there are legal scholars here who will have some useful appreciation of the situation......actually, for all I know, some number of them may be working on this class of item at present. If so, a 'movement' to raise funding, and public awareness, would seem desirable.

Would political action of this nature be an appropriate use of a segment of the Calguns site?

Would someone connected with the Calguns site care to comment?

Another thought comes to mind.

If, as one may reasonably fear, this 'abuse of process' situation becomes more commonly used to disarm peaceable individuals, and will continue for some time in its present configuration, then could not someone or some firm, with the appropriate licencing, act as a 'bonded warehouse' for compliance with such matters?

It would seem reasonable that the 'bonded warehouse' secured storage concept would comply with the alleged purpose of the court ordered disarmament of the victim, given the 'temporary' nature of the order, pending further court process for the adjutication of the matter.

Would I be mistaken in that impression?

cheers

Carla

yellowfin
04-17-2009, 12:08 PM
2. Give them to the police for storage--can be returned but requires paperwork, etc. I wouldn't trust police departments here for safe storage of firearms under any circumstance. That's like giving a chocolate cake to Rosie O Donnell for safe keeping while you're on a diet for a week.

Untamed1972
04-17-2009, 12:14 PM
To comment on Asphodels comments. I agree.....the legal system has been so overly abused it's ridiculous. I wonder if 2A incorporation would help in this matter in that the courts would now be trampling on a constitutional right by forcing someone to surrender their rights on the mere accusation of another. Sounds like a due process / innocent till proven guitly issue. At bare minimum the surrender of guns should not be required until a hearing has taken place to establish the validity of the need for the RO.

bondmid003
04-17-2009, 1:02 PM
So basically someone in CA can get a restraining order on someone else for basically any reason they feel like and that person has to turn in their guns no matter what?

DDT
04-17-2009, 1:04 PM
So basically someone in CA can get a restraining order on someone else for basically any reason they feel like and that person has to turn in their guns no matter what?

About sums it up. If they are completely blowing smoke the judge will pull the order at the hearing. But the victim of the order will still have to go through all the hoops and expense of disposing of their arms for the duration.

Untamed1972
04-17-2009, 1:21 PM
so then my question is if the state "theoretically" doesn't know what long guns a person may have, and I may transfer a long gun to a family member who also resides in this state simply by saying "here dad/mom/bro/sis, I'm giving you this rifle/shotgun." Where is the need to spend money to transfer thru a dealer? Or is the dealer being used as proof that you actually transfered them?

Casual_Shooter
04-17-2009, 2:58 PM
My .02 as I happen to be going through something similar (but it's not me who has the restraining order against them).

I don't believe the TRO is an order to sell, surrender your weapons. You will have a hearing where the judge will decide whether or not the TRO will be turned into an a RO. If it's made permanent (for the specified period of time, that is) at that point, I believe, is when you need to deal with your guns.

Also, you can check the box on your reply that you do not want to turn in your guns. The person filing the TRO checks a box that says they want you to turn in your guns.

Casual_Shooter
04-17-2009, 2:59 PM
so then my question is if the state "theoretically" doesn't know what long guns a person may have, and I may transfer a long gun to a family member who also resides in this state simply by saying "here dad/mom/bro/sis, I'm giving you this rifle/shotgun." Where is the need to spend money to transfer thru a dealer? Or is the dealer being used as proof that you actually transfered them?

I believe there is something on the TRO paperwork that says you will need to provide proof... But of course it doesn't say what "proof" means.

bondmid003
04-17-2009, 3:18 PM
This is really scary, basically any girl or guy could use a TRO to totally screw over an ex even if its just for the short term as a means of revenge. During break ups/divorces folks are often at their pettiest. I totally understand that a person who has a legitimate restraining order placed against them probably shouldn't have access to firearms but there needs to be some sort of sanity check (i.e. you don't have to turn in your guns until the restraining order is permanent)

7x57
04-17-2009, 4:54 PM
I wonder if 2A incorporation would help in this matter in that the courts would now be trampling on a constitutional right by forcing someone to surrender their rights on the mere accusation of another. Sounds like a due process / innocent till proven guitly issue. At bare minimum the surrender of guns should not be required until a hearing has taken place to establish the validity of the need for the RO.

Probably will, at least for that bare minimum, based on


The First (?) Post-Heller Case Holding a Gun Control Law Unconstitutional (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_01_11-2009_01_17.shtml#1231712651).

Read Eugene Volokh's description, you'll like it.

7x57

Tweak338
04-17-2009, 5:11 PM
I went through this BS last summer.
PPT them to a good friend

KylaGWolf
04-17-2009, 8:50 PM
Asphodel While I agree that ROs are misused sometimes they can also be hard to get. I found that one out the hard way in trying to get one on my ex who threatened to kidnap our daughter. Up till that point his threats were just ones that were towards me or I should say more of the come back to me and when I didn't he would cause problems. They said the threat was not good enough reason. Makes me mad when those that don't need them can get them without much trouble and when I needed it they refused me. Which is one reason I make sure I can defend myself if needed. Why I also had it set up that my daughters school couldn't release her without the person being on the approved list and written permission from me on anyone else.

I also agree with Untamed that until a hearing is issued I don't think that they should be able to say surrender your guns.

El Gato
04-17-2009, 9:14 PM
This may apply:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/sb950frm1107.pdf

A person who is subject to a protective order (as defined in Family Code Section 6218) is subject to
special rules. Such a person must do both of the following:
1) Within 24 hours of being served with notice of the protective order, surrender all firearms to the control
of local law enforcement officials, or sell the firearm(s) to a licensed gun dealer; but
Immediately surrender the firearm(s) to a law enforcement officer upon an officer’s request. (Fam.
Code, § 6389, subd. (c)(2).)
2) Within 48 hours of receiving the order, provide proof to the court that issued the order that all firearms
have been relinquished.
Note: A person who has Power of Attorney for Firearms Relinquishment, Sale or Disposal in a case where a
protective order is issued must surrender the firearms to the control of local law enforcement officials, or sell the
firearms to a licensed gun dealer on behalf of the gun owner within the times set forth above so that the gun
owner is able to comply with the law.

I believe this is for a Domestic issue involving a family member... I take it this order against you is from a family member?
Emerson in the 5th District (?) laid out your right to a hearing... now that we have Heller... this hasn't really been litigated as far as I know... California law is explicit though if this is a family law matter ... you have 24 hours... and one should look at the appropriate sections of PC 12021 for the ramifications of not disposing of the firearms... Says he who has arrested people for same...

cousinkix1953
04-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Transfer to family... the only fee is registration of handguns and a form to fill out. No waiting period or anything.
I kept my brother's small gun collection for one year in the mid-90s, while he finished a one year probation sentence for a 3rd DUI. The judge told him to get rid of the guns and the sheriff said that a relative could store them during this time period. He got his guns back; when he moved to Virginia about 14 months later...

cousinkix1953
04-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Good idea receivers only... if you near me I have a local shop we can meet at and do a legal agreement you will get em back or the shopWILL hold em they have done it before to help people out. SUCKS



So he is one of those B*g P*ssy ****ots who calls his Mom cuz he had a hard day?... so lame.
They don't sell guns at the Cow Palace gun shows! Those San Fransicko P*ssy fa**ots are still freaking out. Mark the fairy Leno and Kamala the dyke Harris were mouthing off on the KTVU news last night again...

TheBundo
04-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Isn't the Cow Palace actually in Daly City?

cousinkix1953
04-17-2009, 11:34 PM
Isn't the Cow Palace actually in Daly City?
Or Brisbane or whatever. It doesn't matter because Mark Lenno is san Fransicko's pervert in the state senate...

Seesm
04-18-2009, 12:05 AM
:) haha

saki302
04-18-2009, 3:25 AM
Just out of curiosity..

Assuming you have digitally locked gun safes, could you get your lawyer or FFL to reprogram the locks, denying you access, thus making them inaccessible to yourself, yet still under your care, so to speak?

When the order terminates, your lawyer/FFL just has to give you the password.

-Dave

Casual_Shooter
04-18-2009, 8:12 AM
Just out of curiosity..

Assuming you have digitally locked gun safes, could you get your lawyer or FFL to reprogram the locks, denying you access, thus making them inaccessible to yourself, yet still under your care, so to speak?

When the order terminates, your lawyer/FFL just has to give you the password.

-Dave

That's a very interesting point.... According to the RO, you cannot possess, have access, etc to firearms... Re-programming the safe might be an arguable point.

garandguy10
04-18-2009, 3:15 PM
That's a very interesting point.... According to the RO, you cannot possess, have access, etc to firearms... Re-programming the safe might be an arguable point.

Great idea, most good mechanical safe locks can have the combination changed as well.

JDS
04-19-2009, 9:27 AM
Just skimmed through this thread. A friend of mine just went though this and got his guns back from the "PD" after the restraining order was lifted. Took him about six months I think. Don't think they can keep em' with no restraining order? Can ask him all the details if anyone ever needs it, just "PM" me. Hope that helps someone.

battleship
04-19-2009, 10:03 AM
How long is the TRO for, i had one on me for 3 years, several years ago from the ex-wife, at the time i did not have any guns so it really didn't effect me. im hoping yours is a much smaller duration time.

Hope it all works out for you.

hawk81
04-19-2009, 4:25 PM
Give them to a friend or family member to hold on to. Oh, and slap a restraining order on the guy that put one on you.

dboy4ever
04-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I kept my brother's small gun collection for one year in the mid-90s, while he finished a one year probation sentence for a 3rd DUI. The judge told him to get rid of the guns and the sheriff said that a relative could store them during this time period. He got his guns back; when he moved to Virginia about 14 months later...

Hmm... I think the court order not to possess guns is enforceable in all 50 states and D.C. Full faith and credit...

Asphodel
04-21-2009, 11:08 AM
They don't sell guns at the Cow Palace gun shows! Those San Fransicko P*ssy fa**ots are still freaking out. Mark the fairy Leno and Kamala the dyke Harris were mouthing off on the KTVU news last night again...

How about a little 'heads up' here, folks.......

I know nothing whatever about the person who posted the above, but that comment does make me wonder whether we might be seeing a little bit of an 'agenda' there.

In the world of political affairs, the use of so-called 'moles' is a normalcy.

Political campaigns are known for using 'moles' who make adverse statements to create an impression of the candidate or proposed measure, but do so in such a way as to suggest the the opposition to the candidate or measure is comprised of individuals who cannot be taken seriously.

In the 'gun control' debates, for example, individuals who certainly appear to be moles for the proponents of gun control are doing their best to create a public image which identifies the opposition to the 'gun control' agenda as 'dumb rednecks' or 'religious extremists'. This, folks, is 'propaganda 101'.

The problem is, you can't tell your moles 'without a programme'......is someone a mole for a political agenda, or a sincerely genuine 'dumb redneck' or 'religious extremist'?

As the old saying goes... 'Gut Frage'......but do take a moment to think about it...... : )

cheers

Carla

CSDGuy
04-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Isn't the Cow Palace actually in Daly City?
Yes, it is. It's located on State Property, which is why there's a bill in the Legislature...