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trfcrugby
04-14-2009, 8:15 PM
Saw this on another board, is this true, or would the lower have to be a registered .50?

"...
-- in 2005 a state ban on .50 BMG took effect and I didn't buy because I thought they'd end up confiscating them as destructive devices
-- in 2009 I got smart again and realized, because of the way the ban was written, one could mount a .50 BMG upper on a registered AW lower and be perfectly legal (there's plenty of documentation of this on calguns.net) -- salvation again - hence my order for a Bohica .50BMG .

Well, with .50 BMG, I *CAN* buy it (at least for now....)

(P.S. Yes, I know I could move to a free state, but the rest of the country could be going down the Cali path, if we don't prevent it...)
..."

ke6guj
04-14-2009, 8:21 PM
Yes, you can attach a .50BMG upper to a Registered AW lower.

edward
04-14-2009, 8:22 PM
Apparently you can do that. :)

Which other board was it?

Yes, you can attach a .50BMG upper to a Registered AW lower.

ke6guj
04-14-2009, 8:27 PM
Here is the important part:

12278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.

If it is already a registered AW, it can't be defined as a ".50BMG rifle" even if it has a .50BMG barrel attached.

In fact, IIRC, people that had RAW AR-lowers tried to register as a .50BMG rifle in addition to the existing RAW, and it was declined.

bigcalidave
04-14-2009, 8:29 PM
50 BMG reg and Assault Weapon reg are two entirely different things.

IIRC Just because you have a RAW doesn't mean that the AW papers will stop your Un registered 50 BMG from being confiscated and you being prosecuted.

Which other board was it?



Thought you couldn't do that?

Wrong! It's clearly excepted in the law.

edward
04-14-2009, 8:34 PM
Here is the important part:

12278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.

If it is already a registered AW, it can't be defined as a ".50BMG rifle" even if it has a .50BMG barrel attached.

In fact, IIRC, people that had RAW AR-lowers tried to register as a .50BMG rifle in addition to the existing RAW, and it was declined.

Cool, never seen that before. If only I had a RAW. :(

bigcalidave
04-14-2009, 9:00 PM
Hehe... :D One of the benefits. I really wonder how much stress and damage it would do if say, someone only had 1 RAW and didn't want to break it. Can you get a replacement lower with the same serial if you crack it?

gazzavc
04-14-2009, 9:56 PM
If I remember correctly C&R Rifles in 50 BMG are also exempt , So if you find a Boys AT Rifle in 50BMG you're good to go as well.

chiefcrash
04-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Just to make this clear:

This applies to REGISTERED assault weapons. ***NOT*** Off-List rifles...

trfcrugby
04-14-2009, 10:21 PM
So if you have a registered AW, you can buy a .50 BMG upper and pin it on?

bigcalidave
04-14-2009, 10:21 PM
yep

what2be
04-15-2009, 12:02 AM
I thought the law was any .50 BMG was illegal, except for when its like the OP stated where he has a registered assault weapon and is putting a .50 bmg upper on it.

Did someone not post the whole law regarding .50 bmg?


I was under the assumption something like the Armalite AR-50 in bolt action was still illegal since it shot the .50 bmg shell. Is this incorrect?

bigcalidave
04-15-2009, 1:51 AM
That's exactly what we keep saying. Where's the confusion? You can't buy a rifle that shoots .50 bmg in california. You can't build a .50bmg on an OLL. You CAN put a .50bmg upper on your registered assault weapon.

Quiet
04-15-2009, 3:03 AM
.50BMG "rifles" are banned.

.50BMG long guns and .50BMG handguns are not banned. ;)

This semi-auto only .50BMG long gun is still CA legal. (http://www.tnwfirearms.com/guns_m2hb.shtml) Because it is a long gun, not a rifle.


Penal Code 12278
(a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

Penal Code 12020
(c)(20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

chiefcrash
04-15-2009, 8:43 AM
... .50BMG handguns are not banned. ;)


Well, not by California. But they are banned federally: a handgun chambered in .50 BMG is a destructive device

Flopper
04-15-2009, 11:04 AM
.50BMG "rifles" are banned.

.50BMG long guns and .50BMG handguns are not banned. ;)

This semi-auto only .50BMG long gun is still CA legal. (http://www.tnwfirearms.com/guns_m2hb.shtml) Because it is a long gun, not a rifle.


Penal Code 12278
(a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

Penal Code 12020
(c)(20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

that may be true, but the link you posted specifically says legal in all 49 EXCEPT CA. . . so, you're probably gonna have to find another dealer.

what2be
04-15-2009, 1:15 PM
I do believe there is another way to own a .50 rifle, (and correct me if im wrong) but it looks like if you are a FFL 01 holder and want to sell to LE or Military you can legally posses a .50 rifle, is that correct?
Or can you only SELL them to LE/Military?
If yes, is this a special permit that is added on to your 01 ffl or is it automatically included when you have a FFL 01?

Amacias805
04-15-2009, 1:39 PM
.50BMG "rifles" are banned.

.50BMG long guns and .50BMG handguns are not banned. ;)

This semi-auto only .50BMG long gun is still CA legal. (http://www.tnwfirearms.com/guns_m2hb.shtml) Because it is a long gun, not a rifle.


Penal Code 12278
(a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

Penal Code 12020
(c)(20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

This firearm will shoot semi-auto only and cannot be converted to full-auto. This firearm is
BATF approved and may be legally owned in all 49 states...not in "The People's Republic of Arnold".

ohsmily
04-15-2009, 2:19 PM
This firearm will shoot semi-auto only and cannot be converted to full-auto. This firearm is
BATF approved and may be legally owned in all 49 states...not in "The People's Republic of Arnold".

Why are you quoting that website? They are not a legal authority. They are wrong. It can legally be purchased and owned here by mere civilians. However, that particular seller won't sell it to you. Buy it somewhere else.

Zebra
04-15-2009, 3:30 PM
.50BMG "rifles" are banned.

.50BMG long guns and .50BMG handguns are not banned. ;)

<...>

Silly question: wouldn't a KNS Spade grip then make an OLL or single shot receiver a long gun and render the combination with a .50 BMG upper legal?

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Images/Gun%20Parts/Spade%20Grip.jpg

Frank

what2be
04-15-2009, 4:02 PM
hmm..possibly, but I think the pistol grip would have to go.

Im not sure if a modified 50 bmg rilfe would qualify as legal if you took the stock off and put the bi handle on or not...

Hopefully someone smarter than me will clarify for us...

jas000
04-15-2009, 6:31 PM
trfcrugby,

I replied to you over at Bohica Arms:

http://bohicaarms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1893&p=21733#p21733

But here's some links for those who don't want to click twice: :)

Here's some good links for you:

http://fiftycal.org/newletters/070822/ (http://fiftycal.org/newletters/070822/)

In this thread just below, read past the first few posts of the ignorant - start at post #5
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=159897 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=159897)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... registered (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=152350&highlight=50bmg+registered)

From the part of the law that bans ".50 BMG rifles":
12278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.

This is an IMPORTANT point because some people registered lowers as .50bmg rifles in 2005, but ALOT of people registered ALOT of AR's in 1999 !!! Taking California back one AR at a time!!

leelaw
04-15-2009, 9:32 PM
One thing the poster quoted by the OP is wrong about is that .50BMG rifles are not controlled as DDs in CA. They are simply a prohibited shoulder-fired rifle caliber in CA. DD doesn't enter into it.

Unless he has been disconnected from the internet for the past 5 years, I find the claim that he discovered the .50BMG-on-Reg'-AW legality utterly hilarious. That was discovered and broadcast before the ban was even signed into law.

yellowfin
04-15-2009, 10:06 PM
One thing the poster quoted by the OP is wrong about is that .50BMG rifles are not controlled as DDs in CA. They are simply a prohibited shoulder-fired rifle caliber in CA.
Just curious, are there any other prohibited calibers?

Zebra
04-15-2009, 10:11 PM
Just curious, are there any other prohibited calibers?

.50 BMG is the first, bolt or semi...

ke6guj
04-15-2009, 10:15 PM
Just curious, are there any other prohibited calibers?CA regulates all fixed-ammo calibers over .60", except for fixed shotgun shells.

The Feds regulate all fixed-ammo calibers over .50", except for those ruled to have a sporting purpose, which includes shotgun shells and stuff like .600 nitro express.

KDOFisch
04-16-2009, 7:39 AM
.50 BMG is the first, bolt or semi...

And anything over .60 in CA? Does that include some of those Confederate-style muskets? I grew up in VA and we unearthed hundreds of .69 musketballs and even some .58 minies. For years we were like, "What the hell happened in the backyard?" Finally went through the city plans. It was a Confederate firing range.

I'd love to get my hands on one of those .69 muskets.

ohsmily
04-16-2009, 9:40 AM
And anything over .60 in CA? Does that include some of those Confederate-style muskets? I grew up in VA and we unearthed hundreds of .69 musketballs and even some .58 minies. For years we were like, "What the hell happened in the backyard?" Finally went through the city plans. It was a Confederate firing range.

I'd love to get my hands on one of those .69 muskets.

Those don't fire fixed ammunition. Perhaps you missed that part.

jas000
04-16-2009, 5:00 PM
One thing the poster quoted by the OP is wrong about is that .50BMG rifles are not controlled as DDs in CA. They are simply a prohibited shoulder-fired rifle caliber in CA. DD doesn't enter into it.

Unless he has been disconnected from the internet for the past 5 years, I find the claim that he discovered the .50BMG-on-Reg'-AW legality utterly hilarious. That was discovered and broadcast before the ban was even signed into law.

Though the final AB50 bill didn't end up that way, some politicians had previously spewed crap about banning as destructive devices. Fortunately, that didn't fly.

And yes, I was disconnected from the internet for the past 5 years - at least from all gun related stuff. After the Obama election, I've become re-engaged in gun-rights issues, and have received a massive education during the last 5 months, mostly from reading on this site.

Shotgun Man
04-16-2009, 6:26 PM
Silly question: wouldn't a KNS Spade grip then make an OLL or single shot receiver a long gun and render the combination with a .50 BMG upper legal?

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Images/Gun%20Parts/Spade%20Grip.jpg

Frank

Any naysayers on the legality of his idea?

draconianruler
04-17-2009, 1:50 AM
I don't think its legal. You would have a BMG chambered long gun that was not previously registered as a BMG or already a registered AW hence a no go. I would just go with the DTC and not have to worry about the legality of it.

Zebra
04-17-2009, 1:53 PM
I don't think its legal. You would have a BMG chambered long gun that was not previously registered as a BMG or already a registered AW hence a no go. I would just go with the DTC and not have to worry about the legality of it.
The law says 'rifle' as in 'fired from the shoulder,' not 'long gun.' You can legally buy a .50 BMG chambered Ma Deuce – if you can spare about 8 grand. There are alternatives, but that's not the point.

Tube uppers and surplus ammo are relatively inexpensive and widely available.

A legal combination spade grip/OLL/.50 BMG could put the big '50' back in the hands of the unwashed masses, and eviscerate another one of our fine firearms regulations.

Thoughts?

Frank

DDT
04-17-2009, 1:57 PM
Just drop a .50 BMG upper on your OLL. The Brady Bunch told me that AR-15s are made to fire from the hip not the shoulder.

(WARNING, this was meant as humor, if you choose to put a .50 BMG upper on an OLL please don't blame me.)

DRH
04-17-2009, 3:01 PM
The law says 'rifle' as in 'fired from the shoulder,' not 'long gun.' You can legally buy a .50 BMG chambered Ma Deuce if you can spare about 8 grand. There are alternatives, but that's not the point.

Tube uppers and surplus ammo are relatively inexpensive and widely available.

A legal combination spade grip/OLL/.50 BMG could put the big '50' back in the hands of the unwashed masses, and eviscerate another one of our fine firearms regulations.

Thoughts?

Frank

Look at the one and only definition of rifle in the penal code, where it is described in reference to short barreled rifles. If you assume that it transfers to the "rifle" defined in the AW language then you are left to draw your own conclusions from the poorly worded "or & ands".

12020 (20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or
redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the
shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the
energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single
projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Zebra
04-17-2009, 10:01 PM
Look at the one and only definition of rifle in the penal code, where it is described in reference to short barreled rifles. If you assume that it transfers to the "rifle" defined in the AW language then you are left to draw your own conclusions from the poorly worded "or & ands".

12020 (20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or
redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the
shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the
energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single
projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Even worse: drop in 'off list lower' and these "or & ands" really get your head spinning! Is there a way to take advantage of this language?
Is there a definition of 'long gun' anywhere?

Frank

draconianruler
04-18-2009, 12:17 AM
A legal combination spade grip/OLL/.50 BMG could put the big '50' back in the hands of the unwashed masses, and eviscerate another one of our fine firearms regulations.

Thoughts?

Frank

The 50 DTC round already puts the "big 50" back into the hands of the masses. The ammo is fire formed from the BMG round and uses all the same components. The balistics are the same. IMHO why wouldn't someone just get the DTC if they wanted the "big 50".

slappomatt
04-18-2009, 1:44 AM
because alot of people dont want to bother with reloading a round only to get around a stupid law. There is hundreds of dollars of reloading gear made only for the .50bmg round that needs to be bought.

having said that I AM seriously thinking about getting a 510 euro. But it sure would be nice to be able to just buy ammo for a decent price.