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View Full Version : where in the 4473 does it say I can use a utility bill for proof of residence?


GMONEY
04-13-2009, 2:27 PM
I am in Big 5 with my ID and she is saying it has to be corrected on the DL and can't accept anything else... She is going to grab a 4473 so help!!!

lorax3
04-13-2009, 2:29 PM
If you are buying a long gun all you need is your CA ID or CA Drivers license, or military id. Two Proof's of residence are only required for a handgun, and Big 5 doesn't sell handguns.

Is that your current address on your ID? If so, ask to speak with someone who has sold a firearm before.....

GMONEY
04-13-2009, 2:33 PM
Nope address on ID is old...

Casual Observer
04-13-2009, 2:37 PM
Then you need a current utility bill for your residency. The new 4473's require something with a current mailing address if your ID/ CDL has an old address or PO Box #.

I forget which number it is, but it's on the inside of the 4473 right below where they write in your CDL info. The one below that is for aliens only (30-60-90 days residency) and below THAT is the alternative proof of residency.

smokinskul
04-13-2009, 2:46 PM
Actually, the CA DOJ wants it to either be the little brown COA card or a current valid CA DMV registation to prove residency on a CDL with the wrong address

slick_711
04-13-2009, 2:50 PM
Go get your vehicle registration out of your car. That should be two or three months old right, you move that recently?

Flopper
04-13-2009, 3:06 PM
Go get your vehicle registration out of your car. That should be two or three months old right, you move that recently?
i don't know if it helps here also, but when i buy handguns, vehicle reg is acceptable as long as it's current, ie, not limited to 2-3 months old.

rynando
04-13-2009, 4:13 PM
I am in Big 5 with my ID and she is saying it has to be corrected on the DL and can't accept anything else... She is going to grab a 4473 so help!!!

Big5 wants government ID. The best thing is to get a brown card (change of address) from the DMV. You can get one at AAA if you're a member. Make sure they stamp the card prior to handing it to you.

R

Nodda Duma
04-13-2009, 7:03 PM
oh yeah and make sure your drivers license is current (getting ready to do a DROS is NOT the place to find out yours has expired :p)

-Jason

KylaGWolf
04-13-2009, 7:09 PM
Also a disabled placard paperwork works. I just bought my first handgun and just did all the paperwork for the gun yesterday. I used my CDL and the placard paperwork. I just got my new placard so the isuse date was from April 1 so worked out good. the only other thing I have that has my address on it is a child support statement.

rivviepop
04-13-2009, 7:34 PM
Here's the official FAQ:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G

reggie 00
04-13-2009, 8:00 PM
Don't you want the address on the Dros to match your licence? Up To date or not.

What identification is required for a person to purchase a firearm?
Clear evidence of identity and age is defined as a valid California driver's license or a valid California Identification Card issued by the DMV. Military identification is also acceptable if accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California, but the dealer must retain copies of both documents.

Temporary driver licenses and temporary identification cards (issued without photo) are not accepted forms of proof of identity and age.

(PC section 12071(c)(1))

top

What happens if there is a problem with the purchaser's driver's license?
If DROS information conflicts with the DMV driver license files or if the license is suspended or invalid, the DOJ will cancel the transaction and notify the firearms dealer. The purchaser should contact DMV to correct or update information in DMV's files. Once the DMV problem has been cleared, a new DROS may be initiated.

Getting it changed right before you Dros is looking for a rejection.

Run it with the stated address, and change it in 10 days at the DMV.

Its just a long gun.

slick_711
04-13-2009, 9:35 PM
i don't know if it helps here also, but when i buy handguns, vehicle reg is acceptable as long as it's current, ie, not limited to 2-3 months old.

I didn't say it because the document had to be within 3 months old (although a utility bill does). I said it because I figured he had moved more than 2-3 months ago and his registration being newly renewed it would have his new address on it (assumption).

KylaGWolf
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
If the registration was just renewed it should have a date within the time period.

tenpercentfirearms
04-14-2009, 4:21 AM
It does not. CA requirements say it is acceptable to use a utility bill. Federal law only statesQuestion 20.b. Alternate Documentation: LIcensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the indentification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address. This alternate documentation should be recorded in quesiton 20.b., with issuing authority and type of identification presented. A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. For example, if a US citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.

Here is what my ATF agent told me. It has to be a government issued document, but they do not accep the little brown DMV change of address cards unless it has a stamp (because no one has access to a date stamp???). My agent said she will also accept whatever California accepts, but that might vary from agent to agent and the form does not allow for it.

Do not confuse CA handgun residency requirements with federal 4473 change of address requirements. They are not the same.

It helps to have a CCW, it takes care of everything! :TFH:

PIRATE14
04-14-2009, 7:42 AM
It does not. CA requirements say it is acceptable to use a utility bill. Federal law only states

Here is what my ATF agent told me. It has to be a government issued document, but they do not accep the little brown DMV change of address cards unless it has a stamp (because no one has access to a date stamp???). My agent said she will also accept whatever California accepts, but that might vary from agent to agent and the form does not allow for it.

Do not confuse CA handgun residency requirements with federal 4473 change of address requirements. They are not the same.

It helps to have a CCW, it takes care of everything! :TFH:

Ya the ATF guys in TX said a utility bill would work but.....it does state GOV'T source for the residency.....we've had good success w/ w-2 forms..

SO....get your paper work squared away.......including your proper address on your DL.....:thumbsup:

AND DON"T CONFUSE STATE LAW w/ FEDERAL LAW..........and don't yell at your FFL.....we don't make this stuff up.....

Trader Jack
04-14-2009, 8:58 PM
Actually, the CA DOJ wants it to either be the little brown COA card or a current valid CA DMV registation to prove residency on a CDL with the wrong address

The "Little Brown Change of Address Card" is not a valid form. You can put whatever address you want on that card and if Cathy or Jon find that in your audit it will be noted a a violation.:)

KylaGWolf
04-14-2009, 10:11 PM
Trader Jack in all honesty you can put what ever address you want on the CDL too. At one time you could even put a name different then your own. I know of one case where a man had the name Santa Clause put on his license. Although that loophole was supposedly closed after 9/11.

smokinskul
04-14-2009, 10:26 PM
The "Little Brown Change of Address Card" is not a valid form. You can put whatever address you want on that card and if Cathy or Jon find that in your audit it will be noted a a violation.:)

Actually Trader Jack, it was the DOJ that told me it was acceptable in an audit as long as the card is time and date stamped at the DMV.

DDT
04-14-2009, 10:42 PM
we've had good success w/ w-2 forms..


Good god, with the exception of the results of an STD test I can't think of anything I'd want photocopied and put in a file less than a copy of my W2

ETD1010
04-14-2009, 11:12 PM
If you are buying a long gun all you need is your CA ID or CA Drivers license, or military id. Two Proof's of residence are only required for a handgun, and Big 5 doesn't sell handguns.

Is that your current address on your ID? If so, ask to speak with someone who has sold a firearm before.....

This is INCORRECT. If you DL does NOT have your current residential address, a SECOND for of identification (or other document) ISSUED BY A GOVERNMENT ENTITY must be shown and documented on the 4473 (item # 20b).

Outside oft his, however, Big 5 does NOT need utility bills, as this is a California DOJ requirement for handgun purchases, NOT a Federal Requirement (Feds wont' accept utility bills as substitute for item 20b)

The "Little Brown Change of Address Card" is not a valid form. You can put whatever address you want on that card and if Cathy or Jon find that in your audit it will be noted a a violation.:)

This is also incorrect, as our last Audit indicated that since it's issued by DMV (you have to go in to get it) it's valid as long as it's stamped by them. At least that's what our last inspector said.

tenpercentfirearms
04-15-2009, 4:05 AM
This is also incorrect, as our last Audit indicated that since it's issued by DMV (you have to go in to get it) it's valid as long as it's stamped by them. At least that's what our last inspector said.

I wouldn't say it was incorrect. I would simply say "that is not what my auditor told me." The odds of one auditor liking it and another not liking are pretty good. You might be better off as a dealer getting something else.

Then again, the beauty of question 20.b. is that you do not need to take down a copy. You simply write down what you observed as a secondary proof of residency.

DDT
04-15-2009, 7:27 AM
Then again, the beauty of question 20.b. is that you do not need to take down a copy. You simply write down what you observed as a secondary proof of residency.

Whew, I thought they copied it which would make using a W2 REALLY BAD. Last time I bought a handgun I used my Vessel Documentation papers. You should have seen the look on the guys face. He didn't know what it was but just noticed it was a "formal document" from Department of Homeland Security.

Raja
04-18-2009, 8:12 AM
If you are buying a long gun at Big 5, why didn't you just put the same address on your 4473 as is on your license.... how would anyone have known?

Bobshouse
04-18-2009, 12:05 PM
We have this problem all the time at Vandenberg AFB. Military come in and have an out of state drivers license and want to purchase a firearm.

The 4473 states in these instances to use a copy of their PCS orders to show state residency.

lorax3
04-18-2009, 12:48 PM
This is INCORRECT. If you DL does NOT have your current residential address, a SECOND for of identification (or other document) ISSUED BY A GOVERNMENT ENTITY must be shown and documented on the 4473 (item # 20b).



Which part of my post is not correct? You do not need a second proof of residence for a long gun. If the address is current on your CDL than you are fine. I posted before the OP made clear that was an address discrepancy.


If you are buying a long gun all you need is your CA ID or CA Drivers license, or military id. Two Proof's of residence are only required for a handgun, and Big 5 doesn't sell handguns.

Is that your current address on your ID? If so, ask to speak with someone who has sold a firearm before.....

I never said you could use an ID with a non-current address. Like I said I only addressed the issue when buying a long gun with a valid and current ID.

-lorax