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Lancebert
04-13-2009, 9:46 AM
Are landlords permitted to discriminate against gun owners? I'm a new gun owner (XD .45 ACP) and rent an apartment. I am moving soon and the new lease mentions nothing about restrictions on firearms. So long as I do nothing illegal in the home or violate the terms of the lease, can gun ownership be grounds for eviction? If the landlord discovers that I'm a gun owner, could they decide not to renew the lease?

TheBundo
04-13-2009, 9:49 AM
I guess they could, as it's not one of the listed things it's illegal to discriminate against in housing. It's legal to discriminate against bald people in housing, for instance, and that has been tested in court.

paul0660
04-13-2009, 9:52 AM
How the heck would he find out?

Mr. Magoo
04-13-2009, 9:55 AM
How the heck would he find out?

+10000

yellowfin
04-13-2009, 9:57 AM
They cannot do anything at all. The matter must be specifically enumerated in writing up front. If you're not violating any other term of the lease then you're good to go. It would make a fantastic lawsuit for our side if a landlord would try that with a legally squeaky clean tenant with no other issues involved.

Lancebert
04-13-2009, 10:01 AM
How the heck would he find out?

I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?

Mr. Magoo
04-13-2009, 10:02 AM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?

Would you disclose the color of your favorite boxers and what you plan on getting for food that week too?

If they dont ask, no reason to tell.

Your roomates might want to know though...

yellowfin
04-13-2009, 10:10 AM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?
Absolutely NO. I wouldn't tell them at all, as it would invite theft and/or potential stupidity. Even when you can trust your friends, you can't trust your friends' friends.

Decoligny
04-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Are landlords permitted to discriminate against gun owners? I'm a new gun owner (XD .45 ACP) and rent an apartment. I am moving soon and the new lease mentions nothing about restrictions on firearms. So long as I do nothing illegal in the home or violate the terms of the lease, can gun ownership be grounds for eviction? If the landlord discovers that I'm a gun owner, could they decide not to renew the lease?

Since gun owners are NOT a protected class under the law, there cannot be any "discrimination" against them. It is only considered discrimination if it is based on race, religion, gender, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.

The landlord can decide not to renew the lease for any reason at all except for the "protected classes" listed above.

He cannot however violate the lease. So if there isn't a "No Guns" clause in the lease you are about to sign, and then the landlord finds out you have a gun, there is nothing he can do UNTIL the current lease runs out.

At that point he can then add a "No Guns" clause into the renewal lease, and you would be have to choose to accept it and get rid of your guns to stay, or not accept it and find another place to live.

Flopper
04-13-2009, 10:29 AM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?
most likely, you're asking for trouble if you tell the landlord. DON'T do it.

as for the roommates, i would only tell them if they're you're friends, and you trust them COMPLETELY, and you want to let them know it's there for self-defense. if that's not the case, you have no legal or moral obligation to tell your roommate about the firearm. i would just make sure it's always secure (ie, either in your control while in your apartment, or locked up when you're not present.)

as a rule of thumb, be very careful informing people that you're a gunowner. here in commiefornia, it's a good thing to NOT announce it to everyone you meet.

berto
04-13-2009, 10:39 AM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?

Why?

You have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Do your roommates disclose facts about their personal belongings?

ColetheGun
04-13-2009, 10:41 AM
when i moved into a house with my friends i didn't think twice about taking some of my guns, i kept them in my room and when i wasnt home my door was locked, never even questioned what my landlord would have thought, never crossed my mind, i mean its my RIGHT to own them i take them were i live, they are mine

nicki
04-13-2009, 11:28 AM
This is a issue in Davis, my daughter is going to college and it is in the leases in apartment complexes around the campus.

Not happy about it, but she has only another year. It bugs me more than her.

Nicki

valleyguy
04-13-2009, 11:43 AM
I don't understand -- wouldn't a clause against firearms be violating your 2nd Amendment rights?

CSDGuy
04-13-2009, 12:00 PM
I don't understand -- wouldn't a clause against firearms be violating your 2nd Amendment rights?
No. The 2A only affects the relationship between government and "The People".

DParker
04-13-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm a Realtor and also own and manage rental homes. Unless gun ownership is mentioned in your rental contract, you are good. I have never seen a contract that prohibited firearms, but an owner/landlord could certainly write in such language if they desired.

For instance, I prohibit 'wall mounted electronics in excess of 10 pounds' and 'water filled furniture' and 'smoking inside the home'. If these are not areas of agreement, then the renter can look elsewhere for a home, but they are not discrimination issues. I also prohibit dogs that are on my insurance company's 'aggressive breeds' list. Many of these dogs are fine pets, but since my insurance company denies coverage for them, they are restricted in the contract.

If you are in the Fresno area, shoot me a message. I have a vacancy and I have no problem with renting to a gun owner.

DVLDOC
04-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?


NO!

BillCA
04-13-2009, 1:08 PM
I'm a Realtor and also own and manage rental homes. Unless gun ownership is mentioned in your rental contract, you are good. I have never seen a contract that prohibited firearms, but an owner/landlord could certainly write in such language if they desired.

Since gun owners are NOT a protected class under the law, there cannot be any "discrimination" against them. It is only considered discrimination if it is based on race, religion, gender, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.

The landlord can decide not to renew the lease for any reason at all except for the "protected classes" listed above.

Could a landlord put into his contract a prohibition against a tenant voting? Or prohibit them from displaying a political bumpersticker on their car? Could they prohibit gatherings of two or more people in the apartment for "political discussions"? I think not.

While the constitution is generally seen as a limit only on government and not people, other parts of the US Code make it illegal to deprive persons of their constitutional rights [i.e. blocking someone from voting].


For instance, I prohibit 'wall mounted electronics in excess of 10 pounds' and 'water filled furniture' and 'smoking inside the home'. If these are not areas of agreement, then the renter can look elsewhere for a home, but they are not discrimination issues. I also prohibit dogs that are on my insurance company's 'aggressive breeds' list. Many of these dogs are fine pets, but since my insurance company denies coverage for them, they are restricted in the contract.

So I presume you won't rent to a Calgunner who smokes and owns a pair of Dobermans? :D

nicki
04-13-2009, 2:24 PM
Could a landlord put into his contract a prohibition against a tenant voting? Or prohibit them from displaying a political bumpersticker on their car? Could they prohibit gatherings of two or more people in the apartment for "political discussions"? I think not.

While the constitution is generally seen as a limit only on government and not people, other parts of the US Code make it illegal to deprive persons of their constitutional rights [i.e. blocking someone from voting].



The 2nd amendment has not been incorporated yet. This was a issue that was facing a resident in SF housing, but they caved.

This is very common in the lease agreements in around UC Davis.

Perhaps it may be an area for litigation once we get incorporation.

Nicki

Whiskey_Sauer
04-13-2009, 3:38 PM
This is a issue in Davis, my daughter is going to college and it is in the leases in apartment complexes around the campus.


If you can, and wouldn't mind retyping and posting the relevant portion of the lease, I would like to take a look at it.

N6ATF
04-14-2009, 12:07 AM
I guess they could, as it's not one of the listed things it's illegal to discriminate against in housing. It's legal to discriminate against bald people in housing, for instance, and that has been tested in court.

Does that include shaved bald people? If so, that+guns=me screwed. LOL

kakpataka
04-14-2009, 12:35 AM
I suppose that's another question: Should I disclose that I own a handgun to my landlord? What about my roommates?

Do not tell your roommates..................ask me how I know!:chris:

nicki
04-14-2009, 1:38 AM
If you can, and wouldn't mind retyping and posting the relevant portion of the lease, I would like to take a look at i

I don't have it, she does, I just pay the bills:(

I will ask her if she has it and can send it to me e mail.



Nicki

Lancebert
04-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Do not tell your roommates..................ask me how I know!:chris:
How do you know?

gn3hz3ku1*
04-14-2009, 3:54 PM
they can put it that you are not allowed guns due to insurance issues?

kakpataka
04-28-2009, 9:32 AM
How do you know?

you dont wanna know...............

Zhukov
04-28-2009, 1:21 PM
How could they put a LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE provision in a lease that violates your 2nd amendment rights? Heller specifically mentions it is a protected right to have firearms in the home for self-defense.

Trying to say you cannot have a firearm in your home would NEVER past muster and would be an infringement of your civil rights.

DDT
04-28-2009, 1:28 PM
Someone with standing would have to challenge the law. I too, suspect that in light of Heller and Nordyke these sorts of lease clauses would be unenforceable. (except on School Campuses such as SOME college housing.)

Untamed1972
04-28-2009, 1:28 PM
I don't understand -- wouldn't a clause against firearms be violating your 2nd Amendment rights?

I would think with the Heller decision as well as thre SF housing ban being struck down that it would be illegal to restrict a renters right to legally posess firearms....and I stress LEGALLY POSESS.

Untamed1972
04-28-2009, 1:32 PM
they can put it that you are not allowed guns due to insurance issues?

They could try but I don't think it would fly. When you rent you are granted essentially the same rights of domicle that a homeowner has.

Trying to tell renter they can't have guns would be like trying to tell them they're not allowed to have a TV, or they can't have guests, or they can't have sex in the house, or they can't park chevy's in the driveway. The restrictions a landlord can place on a tenant are actually fairly limited.

DDT
04-28-2009, 1:40 PM
or they can't have sex in the house,

Seriously? My wife told me that was in our last lease. :eek:

I think she owes me a few.

Decoligny
04-28-2009, 2:40 PM
Seriously? My wife told me that was in our last lease. :eek:

I think she owes me a few.

You two must spend a lot of time in the yard then! :rolleyes:

BillCA
04-29-2009, 12:39 AM
They could try but I don't think it would fly. When you rent you are granted essentially the same rights of domicle that a homeowner has.

Trying to tell renter they can't have guns would be like trying to tell them they're not allowed to have a TV, or they can't have guests, or they can't have sex in the house, or they can't park chevy's in the driveway. The restrictions a landlord can place on a tenant are actually fairly limited.

Are you sure?
Most landlords still exercise a fair amount of control over their properties. Some of the examples of limitiations that are supported in California are:
- No pets (includes fish, snakes, rats, mice, dogs, cats, etc.)
- No smoking
- No waterbeds
- No illegal activities permitted
- No replacing of plumbing fixtures without written permission.
- No exterior painting w/o permission
- No interior painting w/o permission
- No replacing of appliances w/o permission
- No installation of alarms w/o permission
- No use of screws for wall hanging items
- No changing of door/window hardware w/o permission.
- No structural changes w/o permission
- No sub-leasing of space for any purpose.
- No use of space for operating a business.
- No vehicles parked on landscaping

and the list goes on.

The landlord's ability to regulate your personal activities and hobbies is very limited. If it doesn't pose a danger to the property and/or its value, it is difficult for him to regulate it.

A blanket prohibition on possessing firearms, after Heller and Nordyke, could be severable in any current lease that prohibits firearms. It'd be an interesting civil case, since you willfully signed a civil contract you'd have to file a 1983 complaint and argue that the change in the law voids the no firearms clause.

gunn
04-29-2009, 11:05 AM
I'm all for the landlord's rights. If the tenant doesn't like the terms of the deal presented by the landlord, they can always a) negotiate a deal that is fair for both parties or b) rent elsewhere.

Nothing is forcing them to rent from that particular landlord and live in that particular building.

As for restricting gun ownership, well, the landlord iisn't saying you can't own a gun. They are merely stating that as part of the terms of the lease, you cannot store it in their building. As the renter, your fundamental right to be a gun owner is not restricted.

Personally, I wouldn't put that restriction on my rental properties but I sure as hell would ban smoking, large animals, and anything else which would increase the wear and tear on my investment. Of course, everyone has a price. If you are willing to pay a premium for the damage you will inflict on my building, I would be willing to talk.

Untamed1972
04-29-2009, 11:50 AM
Are you sure?
Most landlords still exercise a fair amount of control over their properties. Some of the examples of limitiations that are supported in California are:
- No pets (includes fish, snakes, rats, mice, dogs, cats, etc.)
- No smoking
- No waterbeds
- No illegal activities permitted
- No replacing of plumbing fixtures without written permission.
- No exterior painting w/o permission
- No interior painting w/o permission
- No replacing of appliances w/o permission
- No installation of alarms w/o permission
- No use of screws for wall hanging items
- No changing of door/window hardware w/o permission.
- No structural changes w/o permission
- No sub-leasing of space for any purpose.
- No use of space for operating a business.
- No vehicles parked on landscaping

and the list goes on.

The landlord's ability to regulate your personal activities and hobbies is very limited. If it doesn't pose a danger to the property and/or its value, it is difficult for him to regulate it.

A blanket prohibition on possessing firearms, after Heller and Nordyke, could be severable in any current lease that prohibits firearms. It'd be an interesting civil case, since you willfully signed a civil contract you'd have to file a 1983 complaint and argue that the change in the law voids the no firearms clause.

I knew someone would say that! And if you look at all of the things you listed they all are related to use of / alteration of the property itself. Telling someone they can't have guns in their house is like telling them they can't have a TV, or they can't have a green couch, or what kind og clothes they can hang in the closet. Yes....a landlord can control things that relate to use or alteration of the property, other then that they're shakey ground trying to regulate beyond that. Pet's and waterbeds generally are regulated because of the common damage to property they cause.

Can they tell you you can't have guns? No. If you get all liquored up one night and start putting bullets thru the wall can they kick your arse out? Damn right they will!

eje
04-29-2009, 11:51 AM
In CA, a non-public residential landlord can put a no guns clause in the lease and the 2nd amendment won't help you if you get evicted for having a gun in violation of the lease.

BillCA
04-30-2009, 4:24 PM
In CA, a non-public residential landlord can put a no guns clause in the lease and the 2nd amendment won't help you if you get evicted for having a gun in violation of the lease.
Pre-Heller, I would have said you're right. But since Heller found that individuals have a right to keep and bear arms, attempting to force an eviction for mere possession of a firearm could be actionable as a 1983 violation (willful deprivation of one's civil rights). I'm certain a lawyer could at least get a TRO against the eviction until a 1983 complaint could be addressed.

I knew someone would say that! And if you look at all of the things you listed they all are related to use of ... of the property itself.

True enough... but storing a firearm in the residence could also constitute "use of" the property. Just as many landlords include "no illegal activities" to allow them to evict for tenants who possess drugs.

As to smoking - one is renting a property to another person as a residence for months at a time. Should the landlord be allowed to specify that the resident shall not cook:
- Bacon
- deep-fried foods
- any pan-fried foods
- any broiled foods
etc, because these things cause accumulation of fat deposits on walls, ceilings and around windows?

Mute
04-30-2009, 6:51 PM
He'd have a hard time evicting you on gun ownership alone if there was never anything in the lease specifically prohibiting such an item. That doesn't mean he can make up crap about how your gun ownership may be causing problems for him and other tenants, but CA has fairly strong tenant rights laws, so it'd be an uphill battle.

Zhukov
05-05-2009, 1:32 AM
California is a state where a tenant can stonewall the crap out of a landlord if they wanted. Even when the tenant is in the wrong.

http://www.caltenantlaw.com/

^-- Has a lot of California tenant law stuff in it. From what I saw, he even sites the codes to back everything up.