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Bullitt196
04-13-2009, 12:14 AM
I did some searching and wasn't able to find anything.

I live out of state and have some AR's including a pair of DPMS stripped lowers. I can't find Panther anywhere on the lower. Are these categorized as the DPMS Panther series?

(Basically, would I be able to bullet button it with a 10 rounder and come into CA?)

5hundo
04-13-2009, 9:21 AM
DPMS is the same as Panther Arms.

As I understand it, all DPMS lowers are banned by name...

missiontrails
04-13-2009, 9:29 AM
SoCal gun in SD has 2 slightly used DPMS lowers in their display case. Banned?

Bullitt196
04-13-2009, 11:50 AM
Well that's the thing, on the website the complete guns are referred to as Panther series.

I haven't found a stripped lower classified as a Panther anything anywhere on-line.

But the last thing I want to do is risk anything like this. They were definitely absolutely purchased AS stripped lowers.

5hundo
04-13-2009, 1:54 PM
SoCal gun in SD has 2 slightly used DPMS lowers in their display case. Banned?

I'm no lawyer but if you look at Appendix B, it says: DPMS: Panther (all)

What does that mean? I'll leave it up to you, if you think it's worth the risk.

For the record: I like DPMS. I have one of their uppers on my AR but that description in appendix B is pretty nebulous. I'm not going to chance it...

ke6guj
04-13-2009, 1:57 PM
IIRC, there are some Off-List DPMS lowers that do not say "Panther" on them. They are not common though.

Joe
04-13-2009, 2:05 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34397&highlight=official+list

aplinker
04-13-2009, 3:25 PM
The "official" list isn't really official anymore.

There are off-list DPMS, but they tend to be cast.

I, personally, wouldn't want a picture of or the word "Panther" anywhere on it. If it doesn't have either, you're A-OK.

Bullitt196
04-13-2009, 3:40 PM
It looks like it very well could be the A-15 model described on the off list thread you linked me. I'm definitely going to do my research and confirm as much as I possibly can before continuing.

The main thing is, there is no picture of a panther, description of a panther or the word panther anywhere on the lower.

aplinker
04-13-2009, 4:01 PM
It looks like it very well could be the A-15 model described on the off list thread you linked me. I'm definitely going to do my research and confirm as much as I possibly can before continuing.

The main thing is, there is no picture of a panther, description of a panther or the word panther anywhere on the lower.

Then it's off-list.

jimh
04-13-2009, 9:35 PM
what does it say under mod:

2ndgunman
04-13-2009, 10:03 PM
I have a DPMS Panther Arms lower...model A-15, purchased it legally and it went through DROS. Now I'm not sure what I have is ok. I haven't installed a bullet button, but have locked out the ten round mag with a lock-nut, and top load the thing. I would like to think what I have is good to go, any feedback would be helpful. I know that on the official off-list on this site it says it's A-ok, but I don't know that showing a
LEO that list will keep me out of jail.

ke6guj
04-14-2009, 12:25 AM
I have a DPMS Panther Arms lower...model A-15, purchased it legally and it went through DROS. Now I'm not sure what I have is ok. I haven't installed a bullet button, but have locked out the ten round mag with a lock-nut, and top load the thing. I would like to think what I have is good to go, any feedback would be helpful. I know that on the official off-list on this site it says it's A-ok, but I don't know that showing a
LEO that list will keep me out of jail.Does it actually say DPMS and Panther on the lower? If so, sounds like a listed lower. Some DPMS lowers do not have the word "Panther" on them, those are off-list.

2ndgunman
04-15-2009, 8:19 PM
It says DPMS-Panther Arms...model A-15. The confusion comes from the exact name being used... Panther Arms is not a model, it's like a division within DPMS. The model A-15 is not listed and that's what some on this site are running with...on the "official off-list". Who makes that list official? Not the DOJ!

ke6guj
04-15-2009, 8:33 PM
If it says DPMS and Panther on it, that is way too close to the line for many of us. There are some early A-15 lowers that do not say Panther on them anywhere, and that is why they were listed on the unofficial "official off-list" list.

Seesm
04-15-2009, 10:01 PM
The model sounds ok but it says on the "bad" list DPMS "Panter Arms" I would be worried if a LEO stopped me.

2ndgunman
04-16-2009, 7:40 AM
I asked two good friends that are in LE, own AR's and that I would consider very knowledgable about weapons. They told me to use it since the basic "beat cop" would see that I had locked the mag. Their thought was not many know everything that is on the list...I don't know that I want to walk that line! I know that it states it needs to be listed by make AND model, and on the original ban list it is not. Thanks for the feedback, I'll post later what I'm going to do.

Clark_Kent_X
04-16-2009, 8:27 AM
you should contact the LEOs here in cali. since you are out of state you MIGHT be able to register your Panther Arm here. but contact them first

technique
04-16-2009, 8:45 AM
I asked two good friends that are in LE, own AR's and that I would consider very knowledgable about weapons. They told me to use it since the basic "beat cop" would see that I had locked the mag. Their thought was not many know everything that is on the list...I don't know that I want to walk that line! I know that it states it needs to be listed by make AND model, and on the original ban list it is not. Thanks for the feedback, I'll post later what I'm going to do.

you should contact the LEOs here in cali. since you are out of state you MIGHT be able to register your Panther Arm here. but contact them first



LEO are not the people to be asking any legal advise.

rbetts
04-16-2009, 9:33 AM
Why risk it? It's way easier to trade out to a truly unquestionable off list lower. If you read the SAC PD letter, and think like an un-informed LEO, you are going to confiscate first [cause it says DPMS Panther (ALL) right there on the bad list and Oh, looks like I got an AW here!] and then let the DA figure it out.

Meanwhile you are out time $$ and your beloved rifle all because you technically were very close to the line.

IMHO, reward not worth the risks

5hundo
04-16-2009, 9:33 AM
LEO are not the people to be asking any legal advise.

Exactly...

I've talked to a number of LEOs about the OLL issue and a few of them didn't even know what I was talking about.

I'm pretty sure most CHP officers would take your gun.

An Amador County Seriff? Maybe not...

ersatz
04-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Below is a legal DPMS OLL. If it has panther arms anywhere on it then it might be a bit of a grey area and you could incurr costly legal fees to prove it's permissible.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3636/dscf0467ry4.jpg

2ndgunman
04-16-2009, 1:45 PM
Yeah...I think I might just sell it. But the hesitation comes from buying it legally in California in the first place. You would think that the DOJ would have caught that I was buying a DPMS long-gun and questioned it somewhere. Looks like I will unload it and try for something that has no grey area.

ke6guj
04-16-2009, 1:50 PM
CADOJ does not know what long gun you may have purchased unless they actually audited the FFLs books that you bought it from. And even then, depending on what info the FFL entered into the bound book, it still may not be apparant that it could be a listed lower.

All that is transmitted to CADOJ is that you are buying a "long gun", no model or serial # is transmitted to CADOJ.

2ndgunman
04-16-2009, 5:24 PM
Thanks for the info