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View Full Version : Shooters Paradise spreading FUD and making threats!**kinda long


tombinghamthegreat
04-12-2009, 3:24 PM
OK so i have been going to this range for some time, like every few months over the course of 3 years. I have brought my all my guns listed in my sig including also a 30-06 in the past. So when i go in there i noticed that there are different people in there and when my friends got a lane the guy was a rude to my friend who was kinda new to the sport. He asked if my ammo was reloaded and they don't allow any reloads. I brought my shooting buddy and a friend who hasn't been shooting for years to come along.

So once we get in there i pull my saiga rifle out, put my double stacked CA legal 10 round mags in and fire a mag. Then my friend fires a mag then the range master comes over and asks to inspect the rifle. He ask why it does it not have a bullet button. I started explaining that it is a featureless model and the AW laws(i did not have the AW flowchart, i just gave it out a friend applying for the police dept). He said that what i have is illegal and it needs a bullet button.I continued to try to explain it but he was becoming more rude and was trying to win an argument by talking louder. I tried to explain the laws and even mentioned that several months ago the that shooters paradise sold the same model for $525 (i posted it on calguns, made a thread several months ago).

He denied it and there is a federal agent several lanes down asking questions. He said i better have a button or I'm going to jail. At this point was starting to get annoyed and i just said that i was not interested in the agents opinion nor will it get him anywhere.

He seemed a bit surprised then stated he worked in the past for the PD then something about the DA in ventura county...at this point i was pissed because i hate being threatened and hate FUD so i pointed out that i am not doing anything illegal, the gun does not violate the law and i DA can't do much about it. It seem like since i have a FUD tolerance level i noticed his "claims" seem to be changing.

Once he realized i was not falling for his lies he just says I'm the range master and i am not allowing this gun to be used at the range, he said he was doing it "save" me from going to jail, which if that were true he just assisted me with a felony. Then he said i was SCARING people with my gun because of how it looked and how they are bad.... Then he sees my 2 10 round mags tapped together, claimed that was illegal and i told him there is no law against it but he ends up walking off. I end up reloading my mags and put the saiga with the mags in the backseat of my car after my friends persuaded me to stop arguing with this guy.

So i have my friend that is new to shooting keep shooting my 3 guns left, trying to make the best of it for him and this one guy who looks like the manager keeps popping up behind us like a creep and just stands there uncomfortably close for a while, he asks if I'm firing steel core rounds...told him it was cheap surplus ammo and he takes one of the bullets to see if it attracts a magnet, which my 7.62x39 and my 7.62x54r does and he said i can't use this stuff at the range. I told him i have been coming here for 3 years and never had any problems using this ammo and i was under the impression that it only applies to outdoor ranges due to fires. He said i was trying to sneak that ammo in and i told them i had the people at the counter inspect my ammo in the past and did not care. I end up leaving a few minutes later because i was getting annoyed with this.

On the way out i seen one of them giving these people a hard time because he claimed that a loaded mag=illegal and they were yelling it to make the people with the mag look stupid. I am still pissed off because i used to like this range and the people in the past seemed ok but i am wondering if the place is under new management. So in conclusion i am unsure if i could have handled it better, and even if i did have the flow chart i doubt it would have helped because they were using well that's what the DA said game.

tombinghamthegreat
04-12-2009, 3:26 PM
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/sealofawesomeness/Picture158.jpg

Anyway this is my saiga, looks scary to some i guess...

SJgunguy24
04-12-2009, 3:34 PM
I would ask him if he would please remove his head from his rectem long enough to read the laws. He just might learn something.........like he doesn't know everything.

Gator Monroe
04-12-2009, 3:58 PM
I would ask him if he would please remove his head from his rectem long enough to read the laws. He just might learn something.........like he doesn't know everything.

Bet he was a wannabe Secular Progressive former troublemakin closit leftist !

KylaGWolf
04-12-2009, 6:39 PM
I don't know a whole lot about rifles but that doesn't look very scary to me. As a matter of fact looks rather normal ok with the clips taped together looks odd but nothing in the PC says you cannot tape them together. As to the metal ammo? Do they have a list posted of what brand ammo you cannot bring in? If not sounds like this guy was just trying to be a total and complete jerkwad to you. I don't know the area you live in I would say try to find another range if you can. You could also really rain on that dudes parade if you go to the DAs office and get a letter that states your gun is legal :D

bwiese
04-12-2009, 7:06 PM
Yes, that tape is scary. Please use a proper "jungle clip" device to assure maximum reliability ;)

And I swear we have more to worry about our own folks' idiocy than from the Bradys.

It's one thing for a range owner to kick you out- "I don't like your looks, the way you handle your rifle, etc." or for rapid fire/muzzle discipline. But when these range commandos start spouting off non-law I get enraged.

Half of Calguns' mission is to refute bad info from DOJ, and the other half is to refute bad info from CA gunshops.

lockandloadllc
04-12-2009, 7:21 PM
Dude, I bought my first handgun from them (Glock 22). I have similar stories. I called them to buy a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308, they said over the phone it was $680 and had one left. I was like cool. I called a place in Simi I like going to, they said $650. Not that big of a difference to drive to Simi. I stopped by the next day as I planned with some friends and I looked at their rifle rack. It was right there in front of me, but I thought I was having eye problems, the $680 looked like $750. I told them what I was told, nothing. Someone misquoted you. Then I was like fine, will you price match Greata's Guns in Simi. Their reply is uh... I dont think we can do that. I was replied to them fine and left. Crappy customer service (When i got my Glock the guy kept trying to sell me a S&W MP40 saying it had a Glock slide on it?), they dont like people coming back into shooting or newbs to shooting. Lame rules on the range. Overpriced on everything in the store but the entrance fee. Id skip that place if you could.

Oh yeah, let me know the ranges/areas you go. Im trying to find a new place without lame rules (want to learn double tapping) and lame ammo rules, thats still in Ventura County if possible. Ive been going to The Firing Line in Northridge, but that drive gets old just to go shooting.

PonchoTA
04-12-2009, 7:25 PM
Your Saiga would only be illegal without a bullet button if it had the pistol grip, or grenade launcher :rolleyes: or other such evil feature. Yours being stripped down falls under the Sporting rules, and is perfectly legal. Mine is just like it except for synthetic stock parts rather than wood.

Also, how can your ammo be illegal when they sell the exact same magnetic stuff on their shelves!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill's right, the time that we're not countering the "anti's" arguments, we're having to counter the BS arguments from those that are supposed to be on "our" side. :rolleyes:

See how the CADOJ has affected everybody??? Got even the good folks at Shooter's scared to death (which I'm sure is the Brady's aim) of even giving the indication that they MIGHT be breaking some law.

:(

.

lockandloadllc
04-12-2009, 7:42 PM
Your Saiga would only be illegal without a bullet button if it had the pistol grip, or grenade launcher :rolleyes: or other such evil feature. Yours being stripped down falls under the Sporting rules, and is perfectly legal. Mine is just like it except for synthetic stock parts rather than wood.

Also, how can your ammo be illegal when they sell the exact same magnetic stuff on their shelves!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill's right, the time that we're not countering the "anti's" arguments, we're having to counter the BS arguments from those that are supposed to be on "our" side. :rolleyes:

See how the CADOJ has affected everybody??? Got even the good folks at Shooter's scared to death (which I'm sure is the Brady's aim) of even giving the indication that they MIGHT be breaking some law.

:(

.

I dunno about them being paranoid of getting a lawsuit. They have acted like that since I was in Boy Scouts going there to learn to shoot a .22. They all act like they are former special forces when they only do it as a hobby.

tombinghamthegreat
04-12-2009, 7:53 PM
It's one thing for a range owner to kick you out- "I don't like your looks, the way you handle your rifle, etc." or for rapid fire/muzzle discipline. But when these range commandos start spouting off non-law I get enraged.


Me too, that's what pissed me off. If he didn't want me to use that gun at the range that's one thing, but telling me that a federal agent(that i doubt was even around) is going to send me to pound me in the *** federal prison because he is to does not understand the laws just makes me mad. Also the tape is duct tape covered in electrical tape but i should get a jungle clip.

As to the metal ammo? Do they have a list posted of what brand ammo you cannot bring in? If not sounds like this guy was just trying to be a total and complete jerkwad to you.

For handguns it is lead free ammo, rifles/shotguns in the past it did not matter what type, not to mention they sold the same ammo for to much money. it was not just one person, it was 3 different employees each giving me a hard time.

chaunbot
04-12-2009, 8:12 PM
I called them a few months ago looking for a lower. The guy said we are expecting some any day, so i ask how much he tells me 250$ so i drive my *** over to oxnard. as i walk in the guy asks if i need some help, im like i called about an ar lower , the guy is like we dont have any, so I tell him i know the guy i talked to said shipment is coming soon to put a deposit down. So the guy tells me the ones in the mail are spoken for.. I tell him the guy said to drive down and put a deposit on 2... He asks everyone in the store if they recall talking to me. No one remembers talking to me. So i tell the guy i Didn't drive to oxnard for nothing so he tells me nothign he can do for me.... Well i walk around for a bit getting more pissed so i walk up to the guy and tell him to figure out who i talked to because someone said they were getting lowers soon.. So dumbo calls the owner and the owner tell's him they are getting 6 and 2 are spoken for... so we start doing my paperwork. anyways long story short the recivers ended up costing me 300 a piece and they charged me some 80$ transfer fee and made me buy a lock. screw those guys

PonchoTA
04-12-2009, 8:34 PM
chaunbot, if you want to buy stuff like that, and will come into town, then go to Ventura and see Paul or Eric at Uncle Paul's Exchange. Much better prices and customer service!

:thumbsup:

Arkalius
04-12-2009, 8:38 PM
the recivers ended up costing me 300 a piece and they charged me some 80$ transfer fee and made me buy a lock

Well they violated the law on the transfer fee, but they are legally required to make you buy a lock unless you have proof of having a gun safe or recently purchased lock.

As far as the range... wow that is stupid. Why would a federal agent even care? Only CA laws matter when it comes to that kind of gun (which looks perfectly legal of course). It seems people who work at gun stores and ranges seem to think they always know more about guns and everything related to them than the customer that walks in, and become extremely defensive when a customer presumes to speak as if they know more about an issue. Perhaps they just don't like the idea of appearing to know less than a customer of their store... Who knows. If they really want to be know-it-alls they should do their homework.

HotRails
04-12-2009, 8:48 PM
Tom,

Had a similiar FUD spreading experience with these guys a few months back. I've been back twice without any problems but who knows when the next problem will be. I sure miss Agoura pistol range....

CnCFunFactory
04-12-2009, 8:49 PM
Time to not go there if you are that dissatisfied. Voting with your wallet so to speak....

EBR Works
04-12-2009, 9:45 PM
Very odd. I have been there many times with other CalGunners with lots of "scary" stuff including an AK pistol, Saiga 12 shotgun, AK and AR rifles some featureless and some with mag locks. I also shoot Wolf and milsurp ammo there all the time and have never been hassled. What was the name of the guy that gave you a hard time?

bigcalidave
04-12-2009, 9:45 PM
Seriously! Every time I hear a report like this, it goes to my mental list of never visit that place ! I hope all of you are doing this as well. Stores with bad customer service or policies shouldn't be given any business from this forum. I think we should have a gun store boycott list. Store owners can join up and argue their case to be removed from the list, maybe they will even learn something about our rights and their future in the gun business if they dont.

odysseus
04-12-2009, 9:49 PM
And I swear we have more to worry about our own folks' idiocy than from the Bradys.

The sad truth.

I swear, so many ego's are too fragile in this environment that it is destructive and works against the gun community. These people need to straighten up!
.

kermit315
04-12-2009, 9:53 PM
yeah, I would like to know also.....I have my suspicions after some things I saw yesterday, but I am holding my tongue until I hear more info.

Sucks that they seem to be heading down this road, they even have EBR's on the wall now, albeit much more expensive than they should be.

tombinghamthegreat
04-12-2009, 9:56 PM
I also shoot Wolf and milsurp ammo there all the time and have never been hassled. What was the name of the guy that gave you a hard time?

Me too, i only have been using wolf and military surplus for all my guns except for my .22 and in the past i never got hassled until now. I did not get their names but they appear to be new because i never seen them before. I wonder if this was a fluke, maybe a bad day or a beginning of a bad policy the store is starting. Maybe someone should call and see what is going on?

yeah, I would like to know also.....I have my suspicions after some things I saw yesterday, but I am holding my tongue until I hear more info.
Was it Saturday? that is when i was there later in the day.

EBR Works
04-12-2009, 10:10 PM
I am friends with one of the guys that works the front desk there. I'll see what he has to say about this tomorrow.

Pyrodyne
04-12-2009, 10:21 PM
The range is well equipped, fees reasonable, ammunition less so. They don't allow steel core ammunition for very good reasons. Steel core ammunition can penetrate much better than lead. Target holders may also suffer severe damage. Their backdrop may not handle steel core ammunition, and you could end up with a nasty pile of paperwork if that was the case.

I have had a few bad experiences there. First bad experience was two children shooting completely unsupervised. One of them shot the target point-blank and it caught fire. Range supervisors were too busy making sales.

Second bad experience, a girl that rented a pistol ended up with a FTF and turned for help to me -- with the muzzle aimed dead level at my chest. I remained calm and since she was obviously new, I let her know that regardless of anything else, a loaded firearm is to be pointed DOWN RANGE ONLY. Range supervisors were too busy checking customers in and out.

Third bad experience - a new face behind the counter. As a courtesy to all range owners, I present all the ammunition I plan to shoot and make sure it is OK with them. I was denied use of some .357 magnum. No problem, I had them put it up and bought some reloads. When I completed my rounds with my wife, I asked for my ammunition back, which was labeled with my name. New guy grabbed his OC jokingly and said something like "You mean MY 357?". Third strike was it for me.

I won't return to Shooter's Paradise for any reason while this employee is still employed. Manager was present and didn't say a word, which surprised me. He could have joked without grabbing for his open carry and I would have shared the laugh.

Amacias805
04-12-2009, 10:24 PM
I called them a few months ago looking for a lower. The guy said we are expecting some any day, so i ask how much he tells me 250$ so i drive my *** over to oxnard. as i walk in the guy asks if i need some help, im like i called about an ar lower , the guy is like we dont have any, so I tell him i know the guy i talked to said shipment is coming soon to put a deposit down. So the guy tells me the ones in the mail are spoken for.. I tell him the guy said to drive down and put a deposit on 2... He asks everyone in the store if they recall talking to me. No one remembers talking to me. So i tell the guy i Didn't drive to oxnard for nothing so he tells me nothign he can do for me.... Well i walk around for a bit getting more pissed so i walk up to the guy and tell him to figure out who i talked to because someone said they were getting lowers soon.. So dumbo calls the owner and the owner tell's him they are getting 6 and 2 are spoken for... so we start doing my paperwork. anyways long story short the recivers ended up costing me 300 a piece and they charged me some 80$ transfer fee and made me buy a lock. screw those guys

wow. why did they charge you a transfer fee? you should've went to uncle pauls in ventura. and even though people tell me im crazy cause its long drive, i got to 10 percent in taft. cause i like there service (and a sonics slushy in bakersfield helps too :43:)

ETD1010
04-12-2009, 10:31 PM
wow. why did they charge you a transfer fee? you should've went to uncle pauls in ventura. and even though people tell me im crazy cause its long drive, i got to 10 percent in taft. cause i like there service (and a sonics slushy in bakersfield helps too :43:)

wow.. a transfer fee for something you bought from them. We have a bunch of lowers left that are at $249 right now. . .. Well.. okay, Calgun's price is $199? And no stinkin' fee on top of it (except for that DROS thing).

Amacias805
04-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Seriously! Every time I hear a report like this, it goes to my mental list of never visit that place ! I hope all of you are doing this as well. Stores with bad customer service or policies shouldn't be given any business from this forum. I think we should have a gun store boycott list. Store owners can join up and argue their case to be removed from the list, maybe they will even learn something about our rights and their future in the gun business if they dont.

i Completely agree! everytime i hear something like this i tend to not want to visit that place unless im close by, or hear a opposite story of really good customer service, in which case i give the place a 2nd chance...

we do need a boycott list! we need to destroy and rebuild... out with the old in with the new.

we need to boycott bad stores, and have calguners open up new stores, for us to support!

Joe
04-12-2009, 10:55 PM
Major FUD

Pvt. Cowboy
04-13-2009, 10:31 AM
You should have suggested that they rename the joint to 'Shooter's Purgatory'.

evan69
04-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Wow, I've never had anything this bad. The worst I have heard is, "if it can be assembled to have a detachable magazine, it's illegal" when getting my lower transfered. I just didn't go back.

The range I go to and my preferred gun shop are both ar friendly, and know their laws. I think they even post on calguns haha.

dreyna14
04-13-2009, 12:10 PM
Also, how can your ammo be illegal when they sell the exact same magnetic stuff on their shelves!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just going to say the same thing. They sell wolf .223 there for like double price. I guess that's why he was moaning about the ammo, you didn't allow them to rip you off for it.

I would've told this guy to his face that he needs to cite which laws I was breaking and to bring me the text of the law. then when he couldn't do that call him an idiot to his face to **** off. He can bring over whatever "agent" he wanted but he was going to lose anyways. Guys like this are what makes me not want to go into gun stores and what pisses me off about gun laws. There are so many that are so vague that there are as many interpretations of them as there are gun owners.

dreyna14
04-13-2009, 12:13 PM
I am friends with one of the guys that works the front desk there. I'll see what he has to say about this tomorrow.

Please ask about this Michael. Also about the ammo issue. Just too stupid for them to sell it but not allow people to bring their own. If this issue can't be resolved then I might not renew my membership.

BONECUTTER
04-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Word of advice for first time at a range with a OL rifle.... this can also go for new employees/RO's that you don't know as well.

Before shooting ask if they have any problem with you shooting your CA compliant BB or featureless rifle/pistol. This allows time for you to gauge what they know or explain the legalities of it without them seeing something they don't understand later.

It helps them when the guy three lanes down runs to them and says you have a AW..... They can pass on the knowledge. Arguing after the fact only makes them annoyed with people who have this stuff.

My response in your shoes would of been "No sir this is a 100% compliant rifle because it has no features of an assault weapon, however if it would make you feel more comfortable I will happily put it away."

Then gone back there later that day or the next and dropped off a flow chart.

EBR Works
04-13-2009, 1:09 PM
A few months ago I took my AK pistol to Shooters Paradise and upon checking in, I showed the weapon to the guy at the front desk and he said "how is that possibly legal?". I explained why and how it was California compliant and offered to let him shoot it, which he did. No problems.

MKE
04-13-2009, 1:35 PM
I haven't been there in a while...it wasn't a Filipino dude that gave you hell, was it? I know one of those workers there working behind the counter. I need to talk to him about this sort of FUD...maybe he can help educate some of those RO newbs.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 2:49 PM
Word of advice for first time at a range with a OL rifle.... this can also go for new employees/RO's that you don't know as well.

Before shooting ask if they have any problem with you shooting your CA compliant BB or featureless rifle/pistol. This allows time for you to gauge what they know or explain the legalities of it without them seeing something they don't understand later.

It helps them when the guy three lanes down runs to them and says you have a AW..... They can pass on the knowledge. Arguing after the fact only makes them annoyed with people who have this stuff.

My response in your shoes would of been "No sir this is a 100% compliant rifle because it has no features of an assault weapon, however if it would make you feel more comfortable I will happily put it away."

Then gone back there later that day or the next and dropped off a flow chart.

That might fly if they didnt have 4 AR's on the wall, and 3 lowers in the case. If they can figure the laws out enough to sell those, they can certainly figure out that a featureless rifle is ok.

How is that Saiga any different than the autoloading Remington rifle?

its not.

dieselpower
04-13-2009, 3:20 PM
Same place gave me **** for swaping uppers...thats illegal since one is 20" and one is a carbine...??????????????? I was manufacturing an AW. I was told to keep one upper on and if I wanted to shoot the other, I had to leave, swap it in my car and PAY the range fee again.

odysseus
04-13-2009, 3:25 PM
Same place gave me **** for swaping uppers...thats illegal since one is 20" and one is a carbine...??????????????? I was manufacturing an AW. I was told to keep one upper on and if I wanted to shoot the other, I had to leave, swap it in my car and PAY the range fee again.

Insane. And if it was illegal, doesn't that make them a conspirator to a felony in their own logic? All that for another range fee.

.

EBR Works
04-13-2009, 3:32 PM
Wow, I don't know where you guys are coming up with this stuff. We go there as a Calguns group regularly with a variety of OLL configurations and have never had issues like this. I spoke with my contact there and he said that there has been no change in range policy.

I would suggest that anyone with questions call him to clarify. Brian - 805-486-1177

Sleepy1988
04-13-2009, 3:40 PM
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/sealofawesomeness/Picture158.jpg

Anyway this is my saiga, looks scary to some i guess...

:eek:

You managed to fudd out an AK with the wooden furniture on that saiga.

:p

kermit315
04-13-2009, 4:03 PM
we need to start getting names of these guys, if for no other reason than to confirm later, and be able to know whom we talked to.

Solidmch
04-13-2009, 4:17 PM
my m1a is just as legal and more accurate. What a tard!

Amacias805
04-13-2009, 4:33 PM
we need to start getting names of these guys, if for no other reason than to confirm later, and be able to know whom we talked to.

I agree. im not denying that any of this happend to any of you that posted. but for accuracy's sake if we can gets some names.

if any of you that have posted, that are local, could stop by, and get the names of the people. that way there isn't an he say she say.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 4:44 PM
I am not even saying it for that reason, but so that if we call in with questions because person X said this, or did this to me, it is better than "that fat guy with the crew cut", or " the guy with glasses that carries the sig"....etc.

If they here the same guys name enough, maybe they will can him, or at least educate him.

Amacias805
04-13-2009, 4:50 PM
I am not even saying it for that reason, but so that if we call in with questions because person X said this, or did this to me, it is better than "that fat guy with the crew cut", or " the guy with glasses that carries the sig"....etc.

If they here the same guys name enough, maybe they will can him, or at least educate him.

i hear you, but since many people come to these forums, if there is a name attached to it, they can at least come on and give there side of the story, so were not just bashing them.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 5:04 PM
true

B Strong
04-13-2009, 5:30 PM
OK so i have been going to this range for some time, like every few months over the course of 3 years. I have brought my all my guns listed in my sig including also a 30-06 in the past. So when i go in there i noticed that there are different people in there and when my friends got a lane the guy was a rude to my friend who was kinda new to the sport. He asked if my ammo was reloaded and they don't allow any reloads. I brought my shooting buddy and a friend who hasn't been shooting for years to come along.

So once we get in there i pull my saiga rifle out, put my double stacked CA legal 10 round mags in and fire a mag. Then my friend fires a mag then the range master comes over and asks to inspect the rifle. He ask why it does it not have a bullet button. I started explaining that it is a featureless model and the AW laws(i did not have the AW flowchart, i just gave it out a friend applying for the police dept). He said that what i have is illegal and it needs a bullet button.I continued to try to explain it but he was becoming more rude and was trying to win an argument by talking louder. I tried to explain the laws and even mentioned that several months ago the that shooters paradise sold the same model for $525 (i posted it on calguns, made a thread several months ago).

He denied it and there is a federal agent several lanes down asking questions. He said i better have a button or I'm going to jail. At this point was starting to get annoyed and i just said that i was not interested in the agents opinion nor will it get him anywhere.

He seemed a bit surprised then stated he worked in the past for the PD then something about the DA in ventura county...at this point i was pissed because i hate being threatened and hate FUD so i pointed out that i am not doing anything illegal, the gun does not violate the law and i DA can't do much about it. It seem like since i have a FUD tolerance level i noticed his "claims" seem to be changing.

Once he realized i was not falling for his lies he just says I'm the range master and i am not allowing this gun to be used at the range, he said he was doing it "save" me from going to jail, which if that were true he just assisted me with a felony. Then he said i was SCARING people with my gun because of how it looked and how they are bad.... Then he sees my 2 10 round mags tapped together, claimed that was illegal and i told him there is no law against it but he ends up walking off. I end up reloading my mags and put the saiga with the mags in the backseat of my car after my friends persuaded me to stop arguing with this guy.

So i have my friend that is new to shooting keep shooting my 3 guns left, trying to make the best of it for him and this one guy who looks like the manager keeps popping up behind us like a creep and just stands there uncomfortably close for a while, he asks if I'm firing steel core rounds...told him it was cheap surplus ammo and he takes one of the bullets to see if it attracts a magnet, which my 7.62x39 and my 7.62x54r does and he said i can't use this stuff at the range. I told him i have been coming here for 3 years and never had any problems using this ammo and i was under the impression that it only applies to outdoor ranges due to fires. He said i was trying to sneak that ammo in and i told them i had the people at the counter inspect my ammo in the past and did not care. I end up leaving a few minutes later because i was getting annoyed with this.

On the way out i seen one of them giving these people a hard time because he claimed that a loaded mag=illegal and they were yelling it to make the people with the mag look stupid. I am still pissed off because i used to like this range and the people in the past seemed ok but i am wondering if the place is under new management. So in conclusion i am unsure if i could have handled it better, and even if i did have the flow chart i doubt it would have helped because they were using well that's what the DA said game.

If I had found myself in your position, the moment the RM started in with the federal agent bull****, I would have requested that he introduce me to him so I could explain myself without a middleman.

I would not go back there except to speak w/the owner about the RM's behavior, and drop off the AW flowchart.

ke6guj
04-13-2009, 6:24 PM
Well they violated the law on the transfer fee, but they are legally required to make you buy a lock unless you have proof of having a gun safe or recently purchased lock.what law did they violate? The only time an FFL is mandated on the fees they are aloud to charge is for a PPT transfer. Regular dealer sales and transfers are not limited to any set fee.


What fees can I charge in addition to the DROS?
In addition to the State's $19.00 DROS fee, you must also charge a $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, you may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a State fee.
(PC sections 12071(b)(11), (12))

MKE
04-13-2009, 6:33 PM
What's really troublesome is we've got RO's or folks behind the counter who should know what's legal and what's not. I don't understand why they assign range duties to people who have no idea how to distinguish legal configuration rifles here in Calif. Each of these employees should be tested before they're even allowed near a range or work behind a counter.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 6:44 PM
impactco, do you or anybody else know if any of their guys come here to post? maybe we could get a representative in here to get their side of things....

just a thought.

HotRails
04-13-2009, 6:48 PM
If I had found myself in your position, the moment the RM started in with the federal agent bull****, I would have requested that he introduce me to him so I could explain myself without a middleman.

I would not go back there except to speak w/the owner about the RM's behavior, and drop off the AW flowchart.

Not to mention why the heck a Fed agent would care about state laws? Its pretty clear since there have been multiple experiences like this at SP that for some reason a few of the staff at this establishment wish to ward off people with weapons that are in compliance with the law. its unfortunate that there isn't another decent place to shoot nearby.

1859sharps
04-13-2009, 7:15 PM
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/sealofawesomeness/Picture158.jpg

Anyway this is my saiga, looks scary to some i guess...

Freaked me out...Almost couldn't finish reading this thread...:rolleyes:

ybz
04-13-2009, 7:18 PM
until and unless more ranges open (which is unlikely anytime soon), they can do and say whatever they want... only competition for business can teach customer service and that the customer should be treated with respect!!! now that agoura range is closed, they can act with impunity.
on a seperate note, i called there a few years ago (right before they were going to list) inquring about AR lowers; their response was NO WAY and just about hung up on me... i was ultra polite btw... james muddox took care of me then and tim at fort courage is who you should see now... they are probably still frustrated for acting like fools during the lowers hay-days when FFL who understood the law were making money hands-over-fists...

kermit315
04-13-2009, 7:33 PM
eh, the markup on their guns is so high that I dont think they are hurting.

Amacias805
04-13-2009, 8:05 PM
eh, the markup on their guns is so high that I dont think they are hurting.

not to mention they're mark up on bullets! last time i went with a friend who was shooting, i saw what they charged him for cheap ammo, and reloads and i decided to just watch! i rather go to open ranges in santa barbara.

on a similar note, has anyone ever shot at the range in Ojai? how is it? how does it compare to the glass factory in SB?

jacques
04-13-2009, 8:18 PM
not to mention they're mark up on bullets! last time i went with a friend who was shooting, i saw what they charged him for cheap ammo, and reloads and i decided to just watch! i rather go to open ranges in santa barbara.

on a similar note, has anyone ever shot at the range in Ojai? how is it? how does it compare to the glass factory in SB?
Are you talking about Ojai Valley Gun Club? It is a really nice range. No worries there. The Glass Factory is a dive. You should head over to Winchester Canyon GC on West Camino.

I have brought all my stuff to shooters at one time or another. Impacto and I had both our AK pistols there at the same time.

There was a curly haired dude that pissed me off one time. But I let it go. Never a problem shooting wolf or anything. This is an unfortunate experience you had. Personally, I really have no desire to shoot there. It is just fun to meet up with other calgunners, then go eat Pho.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 8:36 PM
its a good meeting place, but small, only 50 feet, and you cant shoot your own pistol ammo ( at least you are not supposed to).

I much prefer Ojai, but it is one hell of a drive.

tombinghamthegreat
04-13-2009, 9:01 PM
I agree. im not denying that any of this happend to any of you that posted. but for accuracy's sake if we can gets some names.

Yes i should have got some names, was not exactly prepared because i haven't had any issues in the past 3 years of going to this range, that why i am wondering why this happened all of a sudden.

kermit315
04-13-2009, 9:13 PM
I understand man. Its very aggravating to me also, and I wasnt even there.

socalgunrunner
04-14-2009, 7:55 AM
I won't return to Shooter's Paradise for any reason while this employee is still employed. Manager was present and didn't say a word, which surprised me. He could have joked without grabbing for his open carry and I would have shared the laugh.

If it's who I think it is, that's the son of one of the owners. He has a weird sense of humor. He used to piss me off all the time, until I realized that he was just joking around. It was hard to tell at first because he says everything with a straight face.

steve40
04-14-2009, 11:10 PM
i had a some what of a bad experience at that store. i go in there with a few friends of mine checking out the place and seeing what firearms they have up for sale. most of the staff there seem to have good and helpful customer service. so i go to the section where you sign up and and use the indoor gun range, the guy behind that counter was such an a**. i go up and asked the guy some simple questions such as how much are the fees, what guns they have to rent and such, and the guy seemed quick tempered, like he was having a bad day or something. the guy like almost yelling me if i ask him to repeat the question or answer he gave me cuz he's talking to me in such a , low voice. i mean, i was like dude, wtf is ur problem!? i wanted to say that to him but i didnt wanna get kicked out considering they have an SKS for rent:p . im still gonna give the place a 2nd chance, im not gonna let one bad apple ruin the whole basket, but come on, that guy needs to relax a bit.

WokMaster1
04-15-2009, 7:53 AM
If I had found myself in your position, the moment the RM started in with the federal agent bull****, I would have requested that he introduce me to him so I could explain myself without a middleman.

I would not go back there except to speak w/the owner about the RM's behavior, and drop off the AW flowchart.

that federal agent could have been a USDA pubic hair inspector.... none the less a federal agent.

Has anyone talked to the owner instead of the manager?

Bill, where does CGF stand on this particular issue? Would it be wise to contact the owner & offer to teach the staff about the legalities of OLLs? Maybe a Calguns info booth like they had at the gunshows. That will help increase his sales with the right info & convert some of his Federal agent customer base. How can he be opposed to that? Maybe a friendly word to his lawyer from our fave lawyers.

socalgunrunner
04-15-2009, 8:20 AM
Bill, where does CGF stand on this particular issue? Would it be wise to contact the owner & offer to teach the staff about the legalities of OLLs? Maybe a Calguns info booth like they had at the gunshows. That will help increase his sales with the right info & convert some of his Federal agent customer base. How can he be opposed to that? Maybe a friendly word to his lawyer from our fave lawyers.

I don't know if that would actually do any good. They already know the legalities of OLL's. The last time I was in there, they had a couple of stripped lowers for sale, and some type of HK 93 clone with a bullet button. The owner "George" was putting a pin in the magazine to make it a ten rounder while I was standing there. The also sell Saiga's and SKS's.

I think the OP just happened upon one of the employees who was hell bent on being a jerk that day. They know that they're the only game in town if you want to shoot indoors. I think some of them just enjoy reminding everyone of that whenever they get a chance.

kermit315
04-15-2009, 3:23 PM
yeah, the had 4 complete oll rifles on the shelf when I was in there Saturday, so if they dont know the laws, they are playing with fire.

I agree with socalgunrunner, I think the guy was just out to be an ***, and succeeded.

Pyrodyne
04-15-2009, 6:12 PM
To qualify my earlier post, as I notice ALOT of negative posts here, other than the explicit times I mention, I have had a good experience there. I just don't like being around people that joke around with loaded firearms. And that would be one single person out of the group.

kermit315
04-15-2009, 6:15 PM
I think it is a pandora's box effect: now that it is open, more people that have had problems feel they can vent too.

tombinghamthegreat
04-15-2009, 9:35 PM
yeah, the had 4 complete oll rifles on the shelf when I was in there Saturday, so if they dont know the laws, they are playing with fire.

I agree with socalgunrunner, I think the guy was just out to be an ***, and succeeded.

It would appear that way because i have taken my rifles in the past 3 years with no issues and the store sold the same or similar guns as mine. Maybe he seen my guns, seen i was fairly young and decided to give me a hard time.

steve40
04-15-2009, 10:06 PM
It would appear that way because i have taken my rifles in the past 3 years with no issues and the store sold the same or similar guns as mine. Maybe he seen my guns, seen i was fairly young and decided to give me a hard time.



ya, maybe. what did the guy look like that gave you the hard time? he might be the same guy that gave me the hard time as well.