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Steve O
04-12-2009, 3:09 PM
How to keep my self form being a legal system victim!

So I'm reading a lot of cases of people being charged. Then the charges are dismissed when it is proven that there was actually no crime committed! I used to trust that I will be in no harm if I don't draw attention to my self, and if I keep things legal. But apparently being a law abiding citizen isn't enough to protect your self these days. I can't afford 20k in legal fees just to defend my self against BS charges if it were to ever happen.

The question here is not what happened to prosecutorial discretion. It doesn't matter. What does matter to me right now is how not to allow my self to become a victim!

I'm looking at a container of legal hi cap mags that I owned before 2000, and I'm wondering if I should dissemble them...if I should delete my blog...if I should delete pictures form my space...if I should separate my uppers from their lowers...and even I I should dissemble entire firearms in to just parts!!!

I understand that some may view this as "paranoia" but do to the recent events...is it so? Look at what happened to Blackwater OPS, and how much it cost for him to defend himself against BS charges...

Do any of you feel the same way?
And what are you doing to protect your self?

VegasND
04-12-2009, 3:12 PM
...And what are you doing to protect your self?
Staying out of California as much as possible.:thumbsup:

Steve O
04-12-2009, 3:31 PM
yea i understand that. I'm trying to get transferred NV office.
But I own property, and I have a job that doesn't allow me to not live in CA.

Intimid8tor
04-12-2009, 3:47 PM
The only thing I don't do is post pictures of what I own or talk about it on the internet. Other than that, there is not much else.

M. D. Van Norman
04-12-2009, 3:50 PM
Steve, just get used to the fact that you are an unapprehended criminal. If not firearms, the government can always prosecute you for something else.

live2offroad
04-12-2009, 4:09 PM
Staying out of California as much as possible.:thumbsup:

No offense, but this is useless advice on a forum called Calguns.. Most of us live here, and therefore his concerns are something we have all had to wonder about.

For me, I simply follow the rules as well as possible. Were I in possession of pre-2k items I'd enjoy them where feasible but otherwise keep a low profile. But that's just me and I like the fly as under the radar as possible.

-Peter

VegasND
04-12-2009, 4:11 PM
yea i understand that. I'm trying to get transferred NV office.
But I own property, and I have a job that doesn't allow me to not live in CA.
Good luck on transferring to NV; it's a nice place to live but far from perfect. As for complying with CA law, it's probably easier for me than you. Unless I'm travelling through and one of my 'scary' guns is locked in a case I just don't bring them to CA. My carry pistol on my trips is a single-stack pistol that I unload and put in the trunk before entering the state. It always makes me nervous to travel long distances unarmed, but sometimes it cannot be avoided.

AJAX22
04-12-2009, 4:59 PM
Have a lot of ready cash, a large line of credit, a well paying job, and tangible assets which cannot be easily frozen.

Also it doesn't hurt to have legal representation on retainer.

You want to make it VERY clear from the outset that you will be a HUGE pain in the *** to the DA if they try anything and you don't mind throwing away lots of money to prove your innocence.

A thick wallet is the best possible way to stay out of trouble... period..

MikeinnLA
04-12-2009, 5:20 PM
Shoot 10 rd mags at the range in public and bury the hi-caps until the zombies (or armed insurrection) come.

Mike

Shotgun Man
04-12-2009, 5:20 PM
How to keep my self form being a legal system victim!

So I'm reading a lot of cases of people being charged. Then the charges are dismissed when it is proven that there was actually no crime committed! I used to trust that I will be in no harm if I don't draw attention to my self, and if I keep things legal. But apparently being a law abiding citizen isn't enough to protect your self these days. I can't afford 20k in legal fees just to defend my self against BS charges if it were to ever happen.

The question here is not what happened to prosecutorial discretion. It doesn't matter. What does matter to me right now is how not to allow my self to become a victim!

I'm looking at a container of legal hi cap mags that I owned before 2000, and I'm wondering if I should dissemble them...if I should delete my blog...if I should delete pictures form my space...if I should separate my uppers from their lowers...and even I I should dissemble entire firearms in to just parts!!!

I understand that some may view this as "paranoia" but do to the recent events...is it so? Look at what happened to Blackwater OPS, and how much it cost for him to defend himself against BS charges...

Do any of you feel the same way?
And what are you doing to protect your self?

Try to be articulate. Use spell check. Understand the difference between "form" and "from."

Beatone
04-12-2009, 5:42 PM
Steve, just get used to the fact that you are an unapprehended criminal. If not firearms, the government can always prosecute you for something else.

Very true. The goverment can put a spin on almost anything to make a honest person look guilty of something. It cost me over ten grand to deal with the goverment after they put a spin on some BS with me. It made me lose some faith in the justice system. :mad:

N6ATF
04-12-2009, 5:47 PM
Steve, just get used to the fact that you are an unapprehended criminal. If not firearms, the government can always prosecute you for something else.

+1000

That's exactly what we are to traitors in government who violate their oaths every single day.

Steve O
04-12-2009, 5:55 PM
Have a lot of ready cash, a large line of credit, a well paying job, and tangible assets which cannot be easily frozen.

Also it doesn't hurt to have legal representation on retainer.

You want to make it VERY clear from the outset that you will be a HUGE pain in the *** to the DA if they try anything and you don't mind throwing away lots of money to prove your innocence.

A thick wallet is the best possible way to stay out of trouble... period..

I'm wondering if it would be cost effective to have some sort of legal insurance. Some sort for a legal club that a person can pay a membership and receive representation if needed.

Could calguns do something to that effect?

AJAX22
04-12-2009, 5:58 PM
I'm wondering if it would be cost effective to have some sort of legal insurance. Some sort for a legal club that a person can pay a membership and receive representation if needed.

Could calguns do something to that effect?

It would be a bit outside the calguns foundation's mission and I don' think kes would officially sanction anything like that for liability reasons....

However the idea has come up several times, and last I had talked to a few parties it was being seriously tossed around... (sort of a pre-paid legal, which would work as a combination retainer prepaid credit for defense)

ViPER395
04-12-2009, 6:01 PM
Leave my hi-caps and legal AKs at home in the lockup.

And what are you doing to protect your self?

Steve O
04-12-2009, 6:02 PM
Right. The membership or dues would have to quail the cost to the foundation.

evan69
04-12-2009, 6:09 PM
Ohh I'm so very sorry to offend you. a55 hole!

Next time I take a blow to the head...just after to learn how to eat my food again....I'll make sure I catch up on my spelling!
It's only been a few year since my coma...Ohh and BTW. spell check doesn't help "form" vs. "from" jack a55!

So Thanks for bring your knowledge to this thread, I'm sure it was very helpful!

Tell you what. If it bothers you so much, why don't you volunteer your time at the local rehab facility.
I could have used a good guy like you to help me wipe my a55 after the accident!

I understand his statement was a tad elitist and probably unnecessary, but calm down a bit. He probably didn't know any of that stuff you just mentioned.

As far as the thread goes...

I am going to use a bullet button, carry multiple copies of the flow chart, and multiple copies of the related penal code with my gun. I will then get out of California ASAP.

Kestryll
04-12-2009, 6:45 PM
I don't care what you think the justification is for flaming someone like that is, it's not good enough.

You KNOW you're breaking the rules because you're using clever little spelling tricks, that shows nothing but total lack or respect for the rules, the forum and it's members.

SP1200
04-12-2009, 6:51 PM
lol. I would be mad too if someone came to my thread to make fun of me.
Perhaps the instigator needs a lesson too?

bwiese
04-12-2009, 7:02 PM
We at CGF (along with NRA & coalition legal team) are trying to do something about this, and are making inroads.

In the past 3 years, we've already vastly lowered the average cost of an effective defense against bogus AW charges... they just don't go to trial anymore unless there's a screwup on the gunnie's part. Your donations to CGF have helped make this possible, along with some of the early trailblazers like BWO who unfortunately had mroe drama than needed but who nevertheless made "gun cases" painful for DAs.

When there's a bogus case out there - with a 'clean' defendant and no other 'color' to case, we at CGF need to know about it and may very well be able to help.

Remember that CGFers (and many Calgunners in general) know more about CA gun laws than the avg cop, or the typical 29yr old female junior asst. DA that just rotated out of the DV unit and who thinks all guns are bad and all people who own guns are evil. These folks are used to nearly-unopposed pleas by lawyers themselves who aren't familiar with gunlaws and regulations -- and when all of a sudden they have 2000+ pages of "you don't know WTF you're talkin' about, here's why" they're FAR less sanguine about going forward.

In another year or so - many technical-only gun cases may well be perceived as being too hot to handle if there's any threat of competent defense, esp if "CGF" and/or "NRA lawyers" names get dropped into the conversation.

CCWFacts
04-12-2009, 7:04 PM
What does matter to me right now is how not to allow my self to become a victim!

Good question.

I'm looking at a container of legal hi cap mags that I owned before 2000, and I'm wondering if I should dissemble them...

No.

if I should delete my blog...

Maybe.

if I should delete pictures form my space...

Yes. I think exposing a lot of stuff, including ownership of firearms (or anything else that attracts attention, like valuable collectibles or whatever), on MS, is a bad idea. MS pages should be kept very minimal and professional, in my opinion.

if I should separate my uppers from their lowers...

No.

and even I I should dissemble entire firearms in to just parts!!!

No.

Beatone
04-12-2009, 7:26 PM
Looks like just a simple typo to me. I've done it.
Just be careful guys when it comes to the goverment and LEO. I have a PM11 and a cop thought it was full auto. :eek:

Theseus
04-12-2009, 7:44 PM
I'm wondering if it would be cost effective to have some sort of legal insurance. Some sort for a legal club that a person can pay a membership and receive representation if needed.

Could calguns do something to that effect?

I did some research. Legal insurance will typically only reimburse you dollar for dollar IF you win.

I tried getting a legal insurance together for open carriers to cover just the initial $5-10K retainer and no one could help me. I am almost wondering if a bond or something is the proper way to do that...

Either way, if you don't have the cash or the help of someone(s) who does you will be up the creek.

slappomatt
04-12-2009, 7:44 PM
sell all your guns or move. thats the only 100% way. other than that. keep a low profile. and make sure your ducks are in a row legaly. which can be a difficult thing with ever changing new anti gun laws. I think a bolt action single shot 22 is about the only thing safe right now. lol. as long as you dont use hollowpoints

KylaGWolf
04-12-2009, 8:19 PM
the only thing I would say is delete the myspace stuff. There have been cases where the myspace was used to go after someone albeit school expusion but it could become evidence if for some reason you do wind up in a court case. Just keep in mind that even if you delete them now there is still evidence per se of those pictures. I told my daughter never post anything on the internet you don't want to have seen since it then becomes available to anyone in the public to do what they will with it.

CnCFunFactory
04-12-2009, 8:30 PM
Try to be articulate. Use spell check. Understand the difference between "form" and "from."

you beat me to it :smilielol5:

HotRails
04-12-2009, 9:18 PM
Bruce Colodny has put up some helpful information here. They are just good, sound guidelines.

http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=15&Itemid=29


Above all, just use discretion. Share your interests in firearms with close friends and family only. Co-workers, casual aquaintences, and neighbors are probably not a great idea as conflict is more probable with these types of people.

As for leaving California, keep in mind that anyone who left in disgust following Roberti-Roos in '89 found themselves up against the same thing five years later in the '94 AWB at the Federal level. It seems as CA is a testing ground for new, irritating legislation.

7x57
04-12-2009, 9:37 PM
Above all, just use discretion. Share your interests in firearms with close friends and family only. Co-workers, casual aquaintences, and neighbors are probably not a great idea as conflict is more probable with these types of people.


The problem with that is that hiding gun culture isn't a very good way of spreading and defending it.

7x57

odysseus
04-12-2009, 9:57 PM
What is this bloom of paranoia about in this thread? Has something happened in the last months that is causing legally holding OLL owners and legally owning hi cap magazine owners from living their lives, normally?
.

ViPER395
04-12-2009, 9:59 PM
Yes...

http://www.popsiclesandgrenades.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/smile-big-brother-is-watching-you-obama-209x300.jpg

What is this bloom of paranoia about in this thread? Has something happened in the last months that is causing legally holding OLL owners and legally owning hi cap magazine owners from living their lives, normally?
.

odysseus
04-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Yes...

http://www.popsiclesandgrenades.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/smile-big-brother-is-watching-you-obama-209x300.jpg

lol... should have known that was coming.

.

SP1200
04-13-2009, 12:11 AM
Try to be articulate. Use spell check. Understand the difference between "form" and "from."

you beat me to it :smilielol5:

You guys like to bully? :rolleyes:

The poor guy had a head injury, probably serving our country too.:thumbsup:
So cut him some slack, it's not like his typing is that bad.

CnCFunFactory
04-13-2009, 6:43 AM
You guys like to bully? :rolleyes:

The poor guy had a head injury, probably serving our country too.:thumbsup:
So cut him some slack, it's not like his typing is that bad.

I'm sorry you will have to show me where in his tirade he said he received the subsequent blow to his head serving this great nation of ours. I find your comment speculatory at best. If I said I witnessed a double homicide would you assume it was a crime committed with a an AW? This person could have slipped in the shower and sustained the same head injury yet somehow in your mind he is a purple heart winner that is sitting at Walter Reid try to get his faculties back.

As far as "liking to bully". I don't see how a little good natured ribbing amongst grown men and women is bullying. Cutting him slack was simply agreeing with the other member and moving on and NOT calling any more attention to the matter. My first post on this site was flamed more times than I can count. I did not freak out on anyone. I laughed at it. Color me crazy but when you submit your words for the world to read you need to have thick enough skin to deal with the words that will be generated because of them.

Not trying to start a war of words here but too liken me to the guy at recess who stole your milk money is outta line in my humble opinion.

AJAX22
04-13-2009, 7:20 AM
We at CGF (along with NRA & coalition legal team) are trying to do something about this, and are making inroads.

In the past 3 years, we've already vastly lowered the average cost of an effective defense against bogus AW charges... they just don't go to trial anymore unless there's a screwup on the gunnie's part. Your donations to CGF have helped make this possible, along with some of the early trailblazers like BWO who unfortunately had mroe drama than needed but who nevertheless made "gun cases" painful for DAs.

When there's a bogus case out there - with a 'clean' defendant and no other 'color' to case, we at CGF need to know about it and may very well be able to help.

Remember that CGFers (and many Calgunners in general) know more about CA gun laws than the avg cop, or the typical 29yr old female junior asst. DA that just rotated out of the DV unit and who thinks all guns are bad and all people who own guns are evil. These folks are used to nearly-unopposed pleas by lawyers themselves who aren't familiar with gunlaws and regulations -- and when all of a sudden they have 2000+ pages of "you don't know WTF you're talkin' about, here's why" they're FAR less sanguine about going forward.

In another year or so - many technical-only gun cases may well be perceived as being too hot to handle if there's any threat of competent defense, esp if "CGF" and/or "NRA lawyers" names get dropped into the conversation.

Y'all keep up the good work :thumbsup:

the CGF has done more to advance the 2A in California (directly) than several other groups I could name have done in the last several decades.

Sniper3142
04-13-2009, 9:06 AM
Steve O,

There will always be people in positions of authority who sometimes abuse their powers.

Some people think its best to avoid these folks whenever possible. Some people go to great lengths to avoid anything that might draw the attention of these abusive folks.


I don't

I've always hated bullies and thugs.

I use my registered AWs and my 10> round magazines all the time where legal and will continue to do so.

While I don't usually go looking for trouble, I will never live my life fearing the illegal actions or abuse of power of others. No, I'm not rich or particulary brave. I just believe in standing up for what is legal and right.

SP1200
04-13-2009, 1:06 PM
I'm sorry you will have to show me where in his tirade he said he received the subsequent blow to his head serving this great nation of ours. I find your comment speculatory at best. If I said I witnessed a double homicide would you assume it was a crime committed with a an AW? This person could have slipped in the shower and sustained the same head injury yet somehow in your mind he is a purple heart winner that is sitting at Walter Reid try to get his faculties back.

As far as "liking to bully". I don't see how a little good natured ribbing amongst grown men and women is bullying. Cutting him slack was simply agreeing with the other member and moving on and NOT calling any more attention to the matter. My first post on this site was flamed more times than I can count. I did not freak out on anyone. I laughed at it. Color me crazy but when you submit your words for the world to read you need to have thick enough skin to deal with the words that will be generated because of them.

Not trying to start a war of words here but too liken me to the guy at recess who stole your milk money is outta line in my humble opinion.

Speculatory at best? There are a lot of men and woman here on calguns who have served our country. But you just want to assume the guy slipped in the shower to justify your comments? My point is what if you are wrong? What if the guy did get a purple heart? Yea could have slipped in the shower. But my point is the guy said he had a head injury, and head injuries are serious. Serious enough to put the guy in a coma, and you guys like to "ribb" on those people?

Do you also like to make fun of retarded people too?

I'm just saying, we don't know the guy, so what gives anyone the right to "ribb" on him? I think it's a shame when people on calguns do this to others. We are to treat others with respect, that is the forum rules. And I can not stand how this "ribbing" it is tolerated by the moderators. The guy asked a serious question. It's not like he came here asking is it ok to "make his AK full auto." Now those guys, they deserve it. ;)

Kestryll
04-13-2009, 2:11 PM
Speculatory at best?
Speculative.
spec·u·la·tive: \ˈspe-kyə-lə-tiv, -ˌlā-\
Function: djective
1: involving, based on, or constituting intellectual speculation ; also : theoretical rather than demonstrable.
As of now there is nothing to suggest that it was a service injury as well as nothing to suggest it was not. Both views are speculative.

Do you also like to make fun of retarded people too?
This is one of the more pointless and emotional questions I've seen in a long time.
Not to mention rude and childish.

And I can not stand how this "ribbing" it is tolerated by the moderators.

The 'ribbing' was one line correcting the usage and spelling of a word.
Seriously it's not like this is a new thing on Calguns or ANY forum.

One line, correcting a spelling error, and you can't stand that it is tolerated.

SP1200
04-13-2009, 2:32 PM
Ok guys. I'm wrong, and you win.

So Kes, is it ok to make fun of people here on calguns?
I was under the impression that when we are guests in you home, that we are to treat each other with respect.

ViPER395
04-13-2009, 3:05 PM
Speak for yourself, mate. I'm starting a food fight in Kes's kitchen. :p

I was under the impression that when we are guests in you home, that we are to treat each other with respect.

DDT
04-13-2009, 3:10 PM
Yeah, I guess I owe you an apology too Kes. I peed on your begonias.

MajorBoothroyd
04-13-2009, 3:16 PM
Yeah, I guess I owe you an apology too Kes. I peed on your begonias.

This explains why the Strawberry Begonia Pie tasted a little...off.
:tooth:

CnCFunFactory
04-13-2009, 3:44 PM
The 'ribbing' was one line correcting the usage and spelling of a word.
Seriously it's not like this is a new thing on Calguns or ANY forum.

One line, correcting a spelling error, and you can't stand that it is tolerated.



:thumbsup:
Adjective: speculatory

1. Intended or adapted for viewing or espying; having oversight

2. Exercising speculation; speculative

Thank you sir, I shall now go back to the penalty box to observe the balance of my self imposed two minute penalty for ribbing resulting from the coincidental minor between SP and myself. :oops:

Kestryll
04-13-2009, 3:52 PM
Ok guys. I'm wrong, and you win.

So Kes, is it ok to make fun of people here on calguns?
Make fun of? No.

Point out and correct a spelling error, yes as long as you don't tell someone something like "you are an idiot, it's spelled..."

I was under the impression that when we are guests in you home, that we are to treat each other with respect.
Yes, you are, do you take that to mean no one could point out that I msspelled a word? Or that you did?

Seriously, this is the post that SteveO responded to that started the whole thing, you tell me how bad this is?
Try to be articulate. Use spell check. Understand the difference between "form" and "from."


Now this is the response:
Ohh I'm so very sorry to offend you. a55 hole!

Next time I take a blow to the head...just after to learn how to eat my food again....I'll make sure I catch up on my spelling!
It's only been a few year since my coma...Ohh and BTW. spell check doesn't help "form" vs. "from" jack a55!

So Thanks for bring your knowledge to this thread, I'm sure it was very helpful!

Tell you what. If it bothers you so much, why don't you volunteer your time at the local rehab facility.
I could have used a good guy like you to help me wipe my a55 after the accident!


Now, you tell me, which of these two is more offensive and more in violation of the rules?

SP1200
04-13-2009, 3:52 PM
Guys I'm just saying. Not everyone is blessed with an over average vocabulary. Especially a guy with a head injury. It's just the internet, no need to be grammar police. Treat everyone with respect.

Kestryll
04-13-2009, 3:52 PM
Speak for yourself, mate. I'm starting a food fight in Kes's kitchen. :p

Yeah, I guess I owe you an apology too Kes. I peed on your begonias.

*SIGH*

This is why we can't have nice things....
















:D

SP1200
04-13-2009, 4:03 PM
Now, you tell me, which of these two is more offensive and more in violation of the rules?

Obviously Steve got pissed. lol. But why did Shotgun man come to a thread and titled "How to keep my self form being a legal system victim!" and post what he did? It was unnecessary, and I found it to be rude. He could have contributed something to the subject, but he would rather belittle someone. Why he feels it is necessary is between him and his psychiatrist. He could have said what he did, then contributed something to the thread, at least that would have been productive for the forums.

Reminds me two kids in the class room. The first one throws something at the second. So the second one gets up and pounds the face of the first one. So the second kid gets in trouble. But the confrontation was engaged by both parties. So why does only the one get the punishment?

CnCFunFactory
04-13-2009, 4:04 PM
Guys I'm just saying. Not everyone is blessed with an over average vocabulary. Especially a guy with a head injury. It's just the internet, no need to be grammar police. Treat everyone with respect.

Thank you sir, I shall now go back to the penalty box to observe the balance of my self imposed two minute penalty for ribbing resulting from the coincidental minor between SP and myself.

Hey SP aren't you suppose to be over here in the "sin bin" with me:43:

SP1200
04-13-2009, 7:05 PM
Your vocabulary is so advanced, I can't even understand what your saying. :cool:

N6ATF
04-13-2009, 7:19 PM
Hockey lingo. :wub: HOCKEY!

CnCFunFactory
04-13-2009, 7:20 PM
That was an olive branch, or at least the internet version of one. That's OK, I get it. Just an FYI, I posted before the OP said anything of his condition.

CnCFunFactory
04-13-2009, 7:22 PM
Hockey lingo. :wub: HOCKEY!

Glad somebody gets it :thumbsup:

paul0660
04-13-2009, 7:26 PM
or talk about it on the internet.

duh. You can brag about your bling and worry about it, or never say a word and enjoy it. It's a little lifestyle choice that comes with age and experience.

john-e-ringo
04-13-2009, 9:21 PM
stop being an American citizen...and you're good to go. (sarcasm should be detected...)

N6ATF
04-13-2009, 11:27 PM
stop being an American citizen and become a Mexican one...and you're good to go. (sarcasm should be detected...)

Fixed.