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demnogis
04-08-2009, 7:19 PM
We need to bring this bill back: AB 1912!

Yesterday I was writing an email to my company's CEO. Word came down the grapevine that the owner of the property we lease has a strict "no guns" policy for their property. The CEO's response was that basically they have to follow what rules are set on them.

I started digging into California laws about storage. Apparently there is no law on the books protecting employees in response to storage of their firearms in their vehicles for workplaces that have "no firearms" policies. The closest I found was a bill proposed in January of 2006:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/asm/ab_1901-1950/ab_1912_bill_20060126_introduced.html

It was later amended in April of 2006:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/asm/ab_1901-1950/ab_1912_bill_20060424_amended_asm.html

Sadly, this bill never went forward for a vote.

What does this mean for you and I?

Whether you OC, CC or are transporting/storing your firearms to conduct your lawful business, your employer can terminate your employment or discipline you for storing your firearm in your vehicle in the parking lot at work. I suppose it could be argued that even just parking in proximity to your workplace they could still do such a thing.

What should we do?

I think right now would be a great time to get in contact with our State Assembly people, find one that is very pro 2A rights, and get them to propose this bill again. I think if we could get not only the CA OCers, Calgunners and maybe GOA and NRA involved, this could be a great action item.

It was AB 1912 from the 2006 session.

So far I have posted this on the opencarry.org forums and sent a letter to NRA's Members' Council for California.

Ideas? Thoughts? Constructive Criticism?

bwiese
04-08-2009, 7:27 PM
Jeezus, DON'T FRIGGIN' MENTION GUNS.

You think this'd get past our CA legislature outright?

The best way to approach this is to couch this as "employee privacy" concern, and that companies can't require vehicle searches (i.e., force you under threat of firing to mgmt inspection of vehicle) in workplace parking lots.

There is the practical option for many employees - parking his vehicle on the street.

I'll also note that most employment in CA is generally 'at will'. You can be fired for no reason at all. (In fact, it's better to fire someone for no reason than some reason - that way the reason can't be seen to be discriminatory, etc.)

The 2006 bill you write of was appears to be a GOC 'puff piece' by Assemblyman Bill Maze; IIRC, Lori Paredes (GOC's Sam Paredes' wife) was a leg aide in his office and thus Sam also had an office to work out of, too. The bill had no chance of passage but was a "wave the flag" bill for Sam to say "See, we're doing something".

Conversekidz
04-08-2009, 10:32 PM
Its private property, if they don't want you to have guns on work property and you don't like it, don't work for them.

Blue
04-08-2009, 10:33 PM
If I bring a gun to work, it goes in my work truck and cruises around with me all day. The boss doesn't care what I do as long as I don't piss customers off :chris:

high_revs
04-08-2009, 10:35 PM
Its private property, if they don't want you to have guns on work property and you don't like it, don't work for them.
that's not the point though.

ZRX61
04-08-2009, 10:54 PM
If I bring a gun to work, it goes in my work truck and cruises around with me all day. The boss doesn't care what I do as long as I don't piss customers off :chris:

So what you're saying is that merely wounding one of them is a bad career move... but.... ;)

AndrewMendez
04-08-2009, 10:59 PM
How are they supposed to know you have a gun, if you dont tell anyone? Did you sign something stating you would not bring it onto the propery? Is it posted where you enter?

Conversekidz
04-08-2009, 11:05 PM
In my eyes it is a pointless fight, its someones private property.

As Bill said, for the most part California is an at will state, at will holds both for the employee and the employer. If you work for an employer you are at will to quit at any time, including when you don't agree with the rules and regulations for working for the employer.

And also as bill pointed out, there is any easy way to get around it, park on the street.


In my eyes there are better battles to fight when it comes to gun rights, and this is not one of them.
that's not the point though.

Conversekidz
04-08-2009, 11:07 PM
My employer has the same rule about no guns allowed on company property. Most large companies, when you are hired on you are given an company guideline/policy book and required to sign an acceptance form saying that you will follow the policy/guidelines or face disciplinary action up to and including termination.

How are they supposed to know you have a gun, if you dont tell anyone? Did you sign something stating you would not bring it onto the propery? Is it posted where you enter?

shirow
04-08-2009, 11:17 PM
There are two scenarios I can think of that can get you in trouble and possibly fired:

1. You tell people that you have a gun in the car, and your arch-nemesis or some anti at work catches wind of it and calls security.

2. Someone breaks into your car, leaves the trunk wide open, and leaves your gun sitting there. A security guard investigates and finds the gun and reports you to HR.

Other than that I can't think of any other way you might get caught. Any more ideas?

AndrewMendez
04-08-2009, 11:20 PM
My employer has the same rule about no guns allowed on company property. Most large companies, when you are hired on you are given an company guideline/policy book and required to sign an acceptance form saying that you will follow the policy/guidelines or face disciplinary action up to and including termination.

Where I work, it clearly states you cannot have any type of Weapon while in the workplace, however, it doesn't state anything about the parking lot! I am sure it could be challenged though, and your work probably would not want to fight it! Then they fire you about something else!! Just dont tell anyone!

Conversekidz
04-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Where I work, it clearly states you cannot have any type of Weapon while in the workplace, however, it doesn't state anything about the parking lot! I am sure it could be challenged though, and your work probably would not want to fight it! Then they fire you about something else!! Just dont tell anyone!

My employer is very specific.

"Subject to requirements of federal, state or local law, firearms and/or weapons of any kind are not permitted in the workplace, Company vehicles, personal vehicles parked on Company premises, or in an employee’s personal possession while on Company property, while conducting Company business, or at Company events."

Here is another way to look at the OP topic but with a different slant, alcohol. Alcohol is legal to consume for people over the age of 21, but if your employer states that you are not allowed to drink on the job or be under the influence of alcohol on the job, would you start up a legal battle so you can have a beer during lunch?

If i'm off base with this please show me the way, but I do not see how an employer not allowing you to have a firearm at work is an infringement on your 2A rights (regards to OP statement about getting pro 2A support).

bruss01
04-08-2009, 11:43 PM
Park across the street from the office. How hard is that?

Afraid you're going to get jacked between the front door of work and the door of your car? Man, I hate to say, but you need to find a better place to work. Is it the "just in case" or "just because" mindset? I agree, it would be great to have one in the car everyday, just because. Fact is, you have a choice where you work. Not an attractive choice (alternative possibly being unemployed) but that is not the same as a gun to your head. Fact is, you have a choice where you park and how far you are willing to walk to work. Fact is, according to CA law, the employer can set the ground rules for the property they own. Not fun, not pretty, but that's the way it is. Adapt, improvise, overcome. Gun in the car to get you safely to within a block of work. Pepper spray or knife or ju-jitsu to get you into the building. No, I don't think that's the way it should be, on principle. So fine, quit whining, change the law. Until then, obey it. Most whiners never do anything, just complain. March, write letters, contribute, attend. Do something constructive.

CHS
04-08-2009, 11:47 PM
I carried a gun openly locked and loaded while at work today :)

shirow
04-08-2009, 11:47 PM
Parking off company property is a good option, but the risk of someone breaking in and stealing your firearm is higher. For some people, parking on company property can benefit from surveillance and security patrols. Kind of a catch-22.

SanSacto
04-08-2009, 11:50 PM
Afraid you're going to get jacked between the front door of work and the door of your car?

Afraid? No. Aware of my surroundings? Yes. I work as a server at a restaurant, so the time to rob me would be between the front door of work and the door of my car. That's why female servers can't walk to their car alone.

I have thought about storing a firearm locked in my trunk. However, like I stated above it would not do me much good in my car. Also, I would be concerned about it being stolen while I am working.

demnogis
04-09-2009, 11:00 AM
Thank you for the replies. I was not posting this to troll. It just perplexes me why Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Kansas and Minnesota have laws that protect storage of firearms in parking lots and many other states do not.

It seems to me that these laws protect our 2nd and 4th amendment rights in the respect that employers cannot search an employee's vehicle for firearms nor question about firearms in your vehicle.

As shirow said, sometimes parking in the lot is better due to proximity. Example, I can see my motorcycle from the office window when it's parked in front in the lot, but cannot see it parked on the street from my office. At my workplace we have a "rent-a-cop" that patrols our building's lot and the other buildings on our block once every 3 or 4 hours. It's better than nothing, but he's not equipped to do anything more than make a phone call. However the guard does not patrol nor check the public street to the side of our building.

Again, thanks for your responses.

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 11:40 AM
As a leasee though does the property owner have the right to make such a determination for his tenants? I own residential rental property and as a landlord I can't tell my tenants that they can't keep guns on the property, all I can do is prohibit illegal activity. Because when you rent property you are essentially afforded all the same rights as if you were the property owner, with some minor exceptions.

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 11:42 AM
Also wanted to add......so if you stored a gun out of sight, locked in your car and didn't open your big mouth about it.....who would know? Unless you work at a prison or on a military based where you accept by entering that your vehicle is subject to search at anytime, just don't say anything and no one will know.

demnogis
04-09-2009, 11:57 AM
I understand the "if you don't tell, who will know?" aspect of the situation.

I do not have that option as many of my co-workers know I carry (I open carry) and have seen me on many occasions doing so outside of work.

DarkHorse
04-09-2009, 12:02 PM
As of this moment, there is no 2A "right" in the state of CA. People are working to change that, but until that happens, these employers aren't infringing upon anything. You'd probably have better luck trying to convince your company's lessor to change the rules regarding firearms in the parking lot than getting the state legislature to adopt a pro-rights bill.

Happy trails.

GM4spd
04-09-2009, 12:27 PM
I have had the same employer for over 30 years and they say "no" to firearms
on their property---so don't bring them to work---real easy concept. Pete

bwiese
04-09-2009, 12:52 PM
It just perplexes me why Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma, Alaska, Kentucky, Mississippi, Kansas and Minnesota have laws that protect storage of firearms in parking lots and many other states do not.

Um, shouldn't be perplexing.

We have the California Assembly and Senate, and also a state Republican party that renders itself unelectable for a variety of reasons.

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 2:44 PM
As others have stated....my greater concern about storing a gun in my car is that will car will get broken into or stolen. Plus if your concern is getting robbed between your work and the car, a gun in the car won't do you much good anyway.