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Steyr_223
04-08-2009, 11:38 AM
They get to have Gay Marriage and Cannabis legalized and taxed.

We get the AW ban lifted and CCW open to all statewide..

Thoughts?

Hopi
04-08-2009, 11:40 AM
Perfect!

What compromise? Freedom and liberty for all!

shark92651
04-08-2009, 11:40 AM
The Democrats don't want Cannabis legalized and taxed. Obama totally dismissed and was laughing about the idea a few days ago.

IGOTDIRT4U
04-08-2009, 11:42 AM
No compromise. The 2A is a right, the latter are not enumerated.

FullMetalJacket
04-08-2009, 11:58 AM
What do I have to give up?

:)

7x57
04-08-2009, 12:01 PM
Obama is probably going to run from legalized drugs like the plague. While the news media did an admirable job of ignoring it while they violated the civil rights of Sarah Palin and her family, Obama himself has written about his history of drug abuse. He likes drugs to be off the radar, I think.

"Only Nixon could go to China."

As for a compromise, if we are just negotiating which historical lies will win, we have no moral standing. And as a practical matter it's DOA because like it or not you need religious conservatives to vote in your bloc, and they won't. And why would the left agree--they hate guns and think they'll impose their hermeneutical scheme by force anyway, so they have little to gain from your "compromise."

Constitutionally, if you believe in original meaning and wish to argue the law rather than negotiate about which possibly illegal laws you can get passed, marriage meant male-female, the feds have no power to interfere with the states' drug laws (and their power to do that would depend on precisely what powers they were delegated through the state Constitutions, so there may be fifty different answers), and neither has the power to infringe on the RKBA because (ignoring the segregationist nullification of the P&I clause) the enumerated federal rights have been incorporated against the states.

7x57

Model X
04-08-2009, 12:05 PM
1) Regardless of your views on gay marriage, it is NOT the governments job to tell YOU how to run YOUR life. Therefore marriage should not be recognized by the government and no discrimination in the tax code should ever be based off this. The government should, however, provide a means to have contracts written up for legal purposes for anyone who wants to have them (such as provided currently for marriage in the event of death, sickness, whatever).

2) Cannabis was outlawed in the first place thanks to strong lobbying from the Alcohol industry. Going back to the founding fathers ideals, this should be legalized and taxed like anything else.

3) Its easier to gain stronger alliances with others when you realize that if you want others to respect your rights, and the governments non-intervention, you must respect non-intervention in other issues even thought you may disagree with them.

That is a libertarian's take on the whole issue.

AaronHorrocks
04-08-2009, 12:07 PM
They get to have Gay Marriage and Cannabis legalized and taxed.

We get the AW ban lifted and CCW open to all statewide..

Thoughts?

You call that "securing gun rights"? What about DDs, SBRs, SBSs, and NFA items? Why should we have to "compromise" anything to get back our rights given to us by our creator (or if you prefer, from mother nature, since all other animals have self-defence), and furthermore PROTECTED FROM INFRINGEMENT by our founding documents?!?

I SAY NO! :mad:

nicki
04-08-2009, 12:17 PM
Gay Marriage: Marriage is God's domain, not the states. The compromise should be states get out of issuing "all marriage licenses", that is something churches can do and they can make their own rules based on their religion.

We can have universal partnerships for those who want the state in their beds and need a state sanctioned partnership for legal reasons.

Legalize Pot: If we do that, it will cripple the Drug Cartels, we will have to reduce the prison population of pot offenders.

It will effect the enviroment because it will open the door for a large Hemp Industry. Hemp consumes alot of CO2, that could reduce CO2 in the air and lead to global cooling.

It could be a 200 billion dollar plus year industry, that could lead to massive employment and capital formation. How could we justify the bailouts if that happened.

We can't do that:rolleyes:

Most people I talk to off this forum who are what I would call non political actually would go for what you proposed.

Nicki

garandguy10
04-08-2009, 12:28 PM
The politicians will never legalize Marijuana, too much revenue would be lost to their donors and the LEO and prison guard unions and CIA/DEA will not allow that to happen.

If you want legalized marijuana in California, only a Initiative could achieve that.

And if that Initiative should happen to pass, look for a judge to overturn it.

bulgron
04-08-2009, 12:35 PM
It will effect the enviroment because it will open the door for a large Hemp Industry. Hemp consumes alot of CO2, that could reduce CO2 in the air and lead to global cooling.

Legalize pot, bring on the next ice age? :confused:

:D

Sorry, couldn't resist....

MontClaire
04-08-2009, 12:43 PM
gay marriage- im ok with that if they want , they can have their own compounds too. as long as they keep it to themselfes and not in everyone's face. pot leaglizing....I get allergic to it's smell and it makes me hostile to everyone around. if they are ok with that.....oh well.... i have excellent tactical training and combat experience. if i smell pot- be somewhere else!

chris
04-08-2009, 1:01 PM
there is no compromise with demoKrats. especially the ones that are in office now. no right is subject to compromise.

7x57
04-08-2009, 1:14 PM
Legalize Pot: If we do that, it will cripple the Drug Cartels, we will have to reduce the prison population of pot offenders.


Once again I find myself breaking my rule to avoid other contentious issues on Calguns and stick with the 2A. :(

I suspect there is nothing more counterproductive than having libertarian types talk about drugs with social conservatives, so understand I'm not advocating anything of the sort.

That said--the best *practical* argument against the drug control regime is that is does not work at all, and that it funnels trillions of dollars to the worst people in the world, including many anti-American terrorists. I *might* be able to make this argument in a way that will get a listen from social conservatives, but it's hard and I'm not sure. No one who is not themselves a social conservative stands much of a chance at all.

So while Nicki is correct, it's not as useful an observation as one might think.

7x57

Sutcliffe
04-08-2009, 1:26 PM
Too many federal and state agencies have too much at stake to allow those things to become legal.

gbp
04-08-2009, 1:38 PM
a pretty good read on compromise can be found here
http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/04/real-truth-about-gun-control.html

DDT
04-08-2009, 1:40 PM
Perfect!

What compromise? Freedom and liberty for all!

+1,000,000

AJAX22
04-08-2009, 1:44 PM
They get to have Gay Marriage and Cannabis legalized and taxed.

We get the AW ban lifted and CCW open to all statewide..

Thoughts?
That pretty much sums up the libertarian position....

I'm an anarcho-Capitalist (extreem libertarian) so that works great for me.

dwa
04-08-2009, 1:50 PM
Gay Marriage: Marriage is God's domain, not the states. The compromise should be states get out of issuing "all marriage licenses", that is something churches can do and they can make their own rules based on their religion.
exactly marrige is a religious word. the governement can call it something else and stay out
We can have universal partnerships for those who want the state in their beds and need a state sanctioned partnership for legal reasons.

Legalize Pot: If we do that, it will cripple the Drug Cartels, we will have to reduce the prison population of pot offenders.
i don think it would cripple drug cartels as i belive their big ticket items are not mj but it deffinetly would hurt them and generate revenue
It will effect the enviroment because it will open the door for a large Hemp Industry. Hemp consumes alot of CO2, that could reduce CO2 in the air and lead to global cooling.

It could be a 200 billion dollar plus year industry, that could lead to massive employment and capital formation. How could we justify the bailouts if that happened.

We can't do that:rolleyes:

Most people I talk to off this forum who are what I would call non political actually would go for what you proposed.

Nicki

im for all of these i dont consider any a compromise except that im against gay marriage for the reason that im against the gov in marriage.

ilbob
04-08-2009, 2:00 PM
They get to have Gay Marriage and Cannabis legalized and taxed.

We get the AW ban lifted and CCW open to all statewide..

Thoughts?

No such thing as gay marriage. it is like calling an apple an orange.

I would not have a major issue with issuing a "recreational drug" license to those who wished to grow their own. Say $100 a year. Let them grow and keep a small amount for personal use. Maybe a few pounds plus some plants. Not being a Cannabis user, I am not sure what an appropriate amount it, but I am sure a proper amount can be determined.

Selling would still be a crime, and transferring it in any way to a minor would be a felony involving a 5 year prison sentence w/o parole.

DDT
04-08-2009, 2:26 PM
No such thing as gay marriage. it is like calling an apple an orange.

I would not have a major issue with issuing a "recreational drug" license to those who wished to grow their own. Say $100 a year. Let them grow and keep a small amount for personal use. Maybe a few pounds plus some plants. Not being a Cannabis user, I am not sure what an appropriate amount it, but I am sure a proper amount can be determined.

Selling would still be a crime, and transferring it in any way to a minor would be a felony involving a 5 year prison sentence w/o parole.

Why a license? Do you want to start having o have a license to own a gun too? Make it be just like home winemaking or beer brewing. Those don't require a license or taxes if it is for personal, recreational use.

Would you also limit the THC content? "Sorry son, what you have there is a high powered assault pot plant, that's 5 years in jail. "

Hopi
04-08-2009, 2:30 PM
No such thing as gay marriage. it is like calling an apple an orange.
That's cute.


I would not have a major issue with issuing a "recreational drug" license to those who wished to grow their own. Say $100 a year. Let them grow and keep a small amount for personal use. Maybe a few pounds plus some plants. Not being a Cannabis user, I am not sure what an appropriate amount it, but I am sure a proper amount can be determined.

Selling would still be a crime, and transferring it in any way to a minor would be a felony involving a 5 year prison sentence w/o parole.

Why the baseless restrictions and veiled prohibitions? Curiously, what problem does your offered solution speak to?

dustoff31
04-08-2009, 3:01 PM
Too many federal and state agencies have too much at stake to allow those things to become legal.

Truer words were never spoken. I'm amazed at the number of people who don't understand this.

It isn't about morals or personal freedoms, we all know the government doesn't give a crap about those things. It's all about the money.

tankerman
04-08-2009, 3:12 PM
Why should we have to wheel and deal to keep our rights?

F--- that.

lioneaglegriffin
04-08-2009, 3:21 PM
Why should we have to wheel and deal to keep our rights?

F--- that.

keep who said you had them? ;)

hawk81
04-08-2009, 4:31 PM
No compromises for freedom. It is better to loose a fight than to compromise. The democrats and republicans can shove it.

grahlaika
04-08-2009, 4:38 PM
No such thing as gay marriage. it is like calling an apple an orange.

No such thing as a straight marriage either for that matter. LOL. We're all screwed!

radioburning
04-08-2009, 5:39 PM
Perfect!

What compromise? Freedom and liberty for all!

My thoughts exactly. Win win situation.

Model X
04-08-2009, 5:45 PM
I do believe Regan said that at the heart of Conservatism is Libertarianism.

Perhaps it is time people remembered that.

You cannot claim that others are disallowing you of your rights when you are disallowing them of theirs!

Now you can always be a Right Conservative. But all that means is you are against abortion... and that the state should not recognize gay marriage; but that's really a moot point since the state shouldn't recognize any marriage to begin with if your a Libertarian.

And i do agree, no compromise, the government should not be interfering in its citizens lives... be it with gay or guns (hey if a gay couple can find a church that will marry them then let em go for it). This is not any business of the government.

Alphahookups
04-08-2009, 5:49 PM
I agree with the "no compromise" replies.

Anything that gets the government out of people's lives is a step in the right direction, and if we get gun rights at the same time, all the more power to us!

rabagley
04-08-2009, 5:52 PM
I'm for changing the name of what the government calls "marriage" so that it doesn't keep getting confused with what various church's mean when they say "marriage". And then give any group of consenting adults who want the benefit of the new contract (taxes, hospital visitation, easier power of attorney, probate) full access.

And I'm the first one to advocate for ending drug prohibition ASAP. Any responsible gun owner who understands the real cause of the high US gun crime rate wants to end prohibition. It doesn't work, it funds crime and gangs, it destroys communities, it is lost tax revenue, it motivates the destruction of the US Constitution (specifically the fourth, fifth, eighth and ninth amendments to the US Constitution).

And then universal CCW would be ideal for lots of reasons.

Inoxmark
04-08-2009, 7:16 PM
Today: Compromise was reached to secure gun rights.
2-3 years later: This country needs more gun control!!! We must close the loopholes!!!!!!

cassius
04-08-2009, 10:09 PM
Screw 'compromising' on anything related to gun rights. That's how we've wound up where we are.

PatriotnMore
04-09-2009, 7:28 AM
Today: Compromise was reached to secure gun rights.
2-3 years later: This country needs more gun control!!! We must close the loopholes!!!!!!

Correct, I think recent history shows there can be no compromise. The SCOTUS now needs to address the meaning of "Shall Not Be Infringed".

IMO, this is the meat of the debate,the meaning is clear. I would really like to see the legal arguments of how this has any other meaning than what was penned. I think we could ask any Jr. High student the question, and come up with the right answer.

DDT
04-09-2009, 7:31 AM
Correct, I think recent history shows there can be no compromise. The SCOTUS now needs to address the meaning of "Shall Not Be Infringed".

The same way that voting, free press, and religion are not infringed. No special taxes, no licenses or permits to own outside of those required for the possession of other property etc.

SVT_Fox
04-09-2009, 8:29 AM
Perfect!

What compromise? Freedom and liberty for all!

exactly, this is the land of the free is it not? church and state should not be combined, which is why I support gay marriage, also who the hell cares about potheads, they will stimulate economy at the least, and they effect my life in no way what so ever, plus assault ban lifts and open carry!! KICK ***

im all for it

.454
04-09-2009, 8:36 AM
Let's see...

-2nd Amendment - a civil right protected by the Constitution.

-Gay marriage, dope - may be interpreted as equal rights to mess up your life but these two are NOT protected by the Constitution.

What's there to trade again?

Note: when I said "mess up your life" what I meant was "marriage shouldn't be the heterosexuals exclusive right to feel miserable";)

Gator Monroe
04-09-2009, 8:45 AM
Let's see Left leaning poll says only 51% of Americans think Socialism is bad ?:confused:

Doheny
04-09-2009, 8:49 AM
No compromise. The 2A is a right, the latter are not enumerated.

I think you mean the former.

:)

Model X
04-09-2009, 9:41 AM
Let's see...

-2nd Amendment - a civil right protected by the Constitution.

-Gay marriage, dope - may be interpreted as equal rights to mess up your life but these two are NOT protected by the Constitution.

What's there to trade again?

Note: when I said "mess up your life" what I meant was "marriage shouldn't be the heterosexuals exclusive right to feel miserable";)

If you will recall there was strong sentiment AGAINST having the Amendments because they felt that people would only see their rights as the ones enumerated and not claim the ones that explicitly were not enumerated as either their own or the States & as such are protected under the constitution... well provided you get rid of the word marriage.

gaucho750
04-09-2009, 10:04 AM
Here is the problem that I see with the OP. A year or so after the agreement the Liberals would find a loophole somewhere and go ahead and pass an AWB anyways.

tgriffin
04-09-2009, 10:07 AM
They get to have Gay Marriage and Cannabis legalized and taxed.

We get the AW ban lifted and CCW open to all statewide..

Thoughts?

Totally on board.

BTF/PTM
04-09-2009, 10:28 AM
One one note, compromise for something that is in our Country's Bill of Rights is unacceptible. It's called a Right for a reason, if it was meant to be compromised it would have been called a Proposition, an Amendment or a Bill. The Second Amendment is none of these - it is a Right and it is called such deliberately. Cannabiss and butt sex are not in our Bill of Rights in clear english as is the right to firearm ownership. One can argue that the Preamble contains rights to cannabis and butt sex by way of the phrase "pursuit of happiness" if this is what makes one happy, but in any case it is not clearly written in plain english and therefore not comparable to the Second Amendment. Again, compromise for a Right is unacceptible.

On another note, we have to face the reality that our Country's laws are written by politicians, not the people. Politicians communicate via bargaining, debate and rule of majority. Plain and simple. If a compromise could be determined to make our modern government finally allow the people to have cemented into place without any room for argument the peoples' right to firearm ownership and also the peoples' right to their pursuit of happiness in the form of cannabis and butt sex, so be it. I think it's a good idea given the true nature of our government in a real world situation.

My final decision given the two views, I say go for it. It makes multiple groups happy and demonstrates the ability of the American people to be tolerate of one another's ideals and promote equality. Many of the Country's extreme views won't like it, but any country that works to please everyone is no longer democratic, they're now socialist. Just can't be done given our current system. Go for it, give each side something they want, and let America forge on.

p.s. - "Cannabis and Butt Sex" is the name of my new band.

grahlaika
04-09-2009, 2:11 PM
I'm for changing the name of what the government calls "marriage" so that it doesn't keep getting confused with what various church's mean when they say "marriage". And then give any group of consenting adults who want the benefit of the new contract (taxes, hospital visitation, easier power of attorney, probate) full access.


Agreed. Marriage should be a personal decision, and not something the state should care about. In fact I think the government should enact legislation preventing companies like hospitals, insurance, etc. from forcing us to have to give our stuff to our spouses. If I want my best friend to hang out with me in the hospital it's my choice, not theirs. If I want to give all my money to my dog it's my choice, not anyone else's. Marriage should be written out of the tax code, and we should definitely limit child tax credits to two children. Any more after that and you're on your own. No more paying welfare moms to have as many bastard children as they want.

SgtBulldog
04-09-2009, 4:46 PM
It sure is surprising that so many people on a gun rights board believe that contractual nomenclature and agriculture control trump vital gun rights legislation. :confused:

yellowfin
04-09-2009, 5:36 PM
Vermont just legalized gay marriage yet has the least gun restriction in the country. It would be interesting to point that out to all the pro-gay anti gun politicians and see what their response is. Would they make the trade?

yellowfin
04-09-2009, 5:39 PM
Today: Compromise was reached to secure gun rights.
2-3 years later: This country needs more gun control!!! We must close the loopholes!!!!!!
This also points out the problem of attacking gun control legislation and not the mechanism that makes it.

Gator Monroe
04-09-2009, 5:45 PM
Vermont just legalized gay marriage yet has the least gun restriction in the country. It would be interesting to point that out to all the pro-gay anti gun politicians and see what their response is. Would they make the trade?

Can you get an AR lower with no wait in Vermont ?:eek: or Chinese SKS's with original Bayonet still attached ?

yellowfin
04-09-2009, 5:51 PM
Can you get an AR lower with no wait in Vermont ?:eek: or Chinese SKS's with original Bayonet still attached ?
Yep, no problems at all. Only the human pollution that runs this place (ok, and NY and NJ) makes absurd rules like we suffer here.