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Two Shots
04-07-2009, 8:45 PM
STOCKTON - A retired truck driver and Vietnam War veteran said Monday that he is forming an armed militia - mostly men with rifles and armbands, four to a car - to patrol Stockton this summer, when at least 43 police officers are to be laid off.


Attorney and anti-blight activist Ron Stein, who is a friend of Pettet's and has been advising him, said the militia will conform to state law, perhaps by having members seek permits to carry concealed handguns.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090407/A_NEWS/904070327

I don't believe this would ever get off the ground, the one part says they want to charge $350 an hour to the city. I'd volunteer for free if they give me a CCW and pay for the gas :)

hoffmang
04-07-2009, 9:05 PM
Can they use any phrase except Militia? Neighborhood watch maybe?

-Gene

Seesm
04-07-2009, 9:09 PM
Aren't Militias illegal no matter what?

7x57
04-07-2009, 9:12 PM
Can they use any phrase except Militia? Neighborhood watch maybe?


While of course you are right, it's a terrible shame that both militia and posse have been so destroyed by the media. Both are honorable words.

In fact, I imagine that's why they have been destroyed, come to think of it. Attack the words to attack the concept.

7x57

G17GUY
04-07-2009, 9:25 PM
hype, just to keep officers form getting laid off.

glockwise2000
04-07-2009, 9:30 PM
Why don't they lay-off some no good LAPDs. I'd work for free and even provide gas, on my own dime, in return for issueing me a CCW.:)

Lone_Gunman
04-07-2009, 9:56 PM
I work in a couple of the worst neighborhoods in Stockton. I would actually like to see carloads of men with rifles and armbands driving around keeping the scumbags and bangers in check.

Just my .02

rp55
04-07-2009, 10:14 PM
Committee of Vigilance?
:eek:
Can they use any phrase except Militia? Neighborhood watch maybe?

-Gene

2nd Amender
04-07-2009, 10:28 PM
There is a difference between vigilantes & the militia.

WE are the militia.

gotgunz
04-08-2009, 1:05 AM
This is like a train wreck that is about to happen. You know it will be ugly but you can't help but watch!

MP301
04-08-2009, 1:20 AM
This is like a train wreck that is about to happen. You know it will be ugly but you can't help but watch!

HAHAHAHAHAH! Yeah, no kidding!

Well, I think they would have an easier time poking soft butter up a bobcats A** with a hot fireplace poker then getting a CCW permit in Stockton. And thats before they found out they were going to run around with guns and arm bands! SPD would definately allocate the resources to hook and book these guys without missing a beat....

They would serve themselves and everyone else much better by just staying home and making sure their block is under control....oh well, train wrecks are interesting to watch i guess...

Untamed1972
04-08-2009, 7:11 AM
Well, I think they would have an easier time poking soft butter up a bobcats A** with a hot fireplace poker then getting a CCW permit in Stockton....

:rofl2: That's just damn funny right ther'....I dont care who you are!!! :thumbsup:

Why don't they just UOC and screw the CCWs? It's time for the citizens to take control again. But I do agree...the wrong guys roaming around with guns could really screw things up. Dale Gribble comes to mind! LOL

Stockton
04-08-2009, 7:57 AM
I understand that mans concern about Stockton and its criminal activity. I live in Stockton and know its not disney world. Sounds like he is ready to play ball and has an attorney in his pocket of course ready to bat. Stockton is an epicenter for crime, drugs, and dirtbags so the loss of 40+ officers is pretty disturbing. Especially the existing crime rate with those 40+ officers still employed. However there are very nice parts of Stockton as well just like any other city so don't get twisted into thinking its all bad. The elected officials better take a better grasp or all this SHTF stuff that gets played over and over will play out in Stockton. I assume there are plenty of citizens in Stockton that will gladely take up arms with him. From the sound of it he will go the distance if allowed to. Personally....a large part would be taken care of if parents would actually parent. Instead you have either a long line of dirt bag culture continuance or a parent that just don't give a crap. All which leads into a repetative adult cycle.

Yeah...getting a CCW in Stockton is exactly as previously mentioned...GOOD LUCK! UOC in Stockton....i've already got a census from LEO on that(SPD is aware of UOC)...make sure you have lawyer on tap. City politics are still ran through old..old..old handshakes.

GenLee
04-08-2009, 8:08 AM
I think they would have an easier time poking soft butter up a bobcats A** with a hot fireplace poker then getting a CCW permit in Stockton.

Thats some sig line material right there. :smilielol5:

Lancear15
04-08-2009, 9:02 AM
Why don't they all become volunteer police officers??? That would seem a lot more logical. Really I think they just want to get publicity.

mister dize
04-08-2009, 9:06 AM
Certainly, no bad can come of this. :eek:

Piper
04-08-2009, 9:29 AM
While of course you are right, it's a terrible shame that both militia and posse have been so destroyed by the media. Both are honorable words.

In fact, I imagine that's why they have been destroyed, come to think of it. Attack the words to attack the concept.

7x57

You forgot vigilante, which contains the root word "vigilance" which means to be aware or watchful. The other word that really bugs me is communism, which was high jacked by the Leninists to promote their form of totalitarianism. In fact it has the root word "commune" which means to come together for a common purpose as in community or communion.

Just a thought, could this bring back "hue and cry"?

SVT_Fox
04-08-2009, 11:04 AM
this is a great idea, and another reason why spending money or worthless welfares and cutting back safety end education is FOR THE LOSS


i mean the whole concept of letting go police is not chill

AngelDecoys
04-08-2009, 11:07 AM
..... - to patrol Stockton this summer, when at least 43 police officers are to be laid off.

For every officer that is currently on duty, there's 3-5 that are collecting retirement. Its an expense paid in large part by property taxes. Stockton is the national epicenter on foreclosures so there simple no revenue to pay for the services.

Not saying its right, but the city can always put a 1-2% sales tax hike on the next ballot if citizens really want to pay for more police officers.

nick
04-08-2009, 11:11 AM
For every officer that is currently on duty, there's 3-5 that are collecting retirement. Its an expense paid in large part by property taxes. Stockton is the national epicenter on foreclosures so there simple no revenue to pay for the services.

Not saying its right, but the city can always put a 1-2% sales tax hike on the next ballot if citizens really want to pay for more police officers.

Or it can let the citizens protect themselves.

AngelDecoys
04-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Or it can let the citizens protect themselves.

That would be my first choice as well. I used to live in Stockton before moving to Manteca. There are definitely places in Stockton I would not venture in the evening...

gotgunz
04-08-2009, 11:59 AM
I hear a train whistle blowing.........

Lone_Gunman
04-08-2009, 12:11 PM
:rofl2: That's just damn funny right ther'....I dont care who you are!!! :thumbsup:

Why don't they just UOC and screw the CCWs? It's time for the citizens to take control again. But I do agree...the wrong guys roaming around with guns could really screw things up. Dale Gribble comes to mind! LOL

The wrong guys are already roaming around Stockton with guns. I work at the port and also out by Cherokee and Waterloo. BAD areas. I would love to have a CCW but I'm a Sac county resident and we all know how that goes.

Untamed1972
04-08-2009, 3:00 PM
The wrong guys are already roaming around Stockton with guns. I work at the port and also out by Cherokee and Waterloo. BAD areas. I would love to have a CCW but I'm a Sac county resident and we all know how that goes.

you know what I meant. The Dale Gribbles of the world and his nutty pals from the Arlen gun club. We're trying to promote an image of responsible gun ownership and self-protection. If you get some Dale Gribbles out there poppin' off shots at everything that moves it will not help with the image we're trying to promote.

sfpcservice
04-08-2009, 3:02 PM
All you need is a 30-30 and a pocket full of shells!

bigstick61
04-08-2009, 3:16 PM
They could possibly apply to be accepted into service; it's not unprecedented. I'm not sure how the process works in California, or if it even still exists. It has to be somewhere in the California Military and Veterans Code, as that is the code that deals with the militia. California's organized militia cannot be assigned this task, as it has almost been completely disarmed and is tiny, although peraps they could see if local officers, should there be any, would be able to lead a force if endorsed by the State, as unlikely as that actually is in this State.

NorCal MedTac
04-08-2009, 3:34 PM
Some of the posts that I have seen lately scare me. I assume many of them are made in the moment or in jest but all the same, considering the other side can read what people type it doesn't speak well of us. There is two common themes that I see that disturb me.

The first is this common idea that a gun can solve the problems/people can police there own homes. I think folks fail to realize or don't care to realize that although we as a society should police ourselves, it is obvious that we don't know how. Owning a gun doesn't make you a policeman. It makes you capable of forcing your will on others. It comes with responsibility, and frankly judging by comments that people make, it leads me to believe our populace on this site believe that with a gun they an force people to act right. Why do cops carry a variety of weapons? Obviously because every situation calls for a different tool. Think about before you speak of grabbing a box of shells to clean up the neighborhood. A gun doesn't make you and your neighbor get along. It only provides you with a last ditch effort to save your life or a loved one or innocents life. Lets face it some areas don't have innocents, therefore stay out and don't get involved. To destroy a quote; warriors appreciate peace the most because they are the ones to pay the cost when it is broken. Lets act like it folks.

Secondly, while I want CCW as much as anyone around (and carry when allowed with my UT and FL for the 3-4 months a year I am out of state). I see a real liability in it. Don't light the torches yet. What I mean is that I read a post about shooting each other by accident if shall issue came to be and there were many CCW out there. Well, if a trip to the local ranges shows me anything over hearing guys talk about this or that on calguns, this is a concern. Why isn't the training forum blowing up? Honestly the guys some folks preaching about CCW can't shoot worth **** (not naming names so don't get pissy). Don't list guns you have down in the sig line or whatever, list your training. Get the right mindset and training. Pay for it, owning 1,000 rifles is awesome but if you never learned to properly shoot them and work in a team all protecting your family and friends in civil unrest or whatever scenario your done. The two way rifle range is scary. Having only been shot at couple times while working I have no idea still what I'm talking about but I know I need to keep training. So please spend the money on that you were going to buy your 8th handgun with and instead train. There are so many good schools out there and that travel there is no excuse. Do some Force on Force training.

The world is eyeing gun owners right now. Live up the responsibility that those before that fought with guns had. Be professional and act like it. We are already behind.

Rant off.

MontClaire
04-08-2009, 3:39 PM
This is like a train wreck that is about to happen. You know it will be ugly but you can't help but watch!

let it be ugly. we have to cut the dead weight of some 30% to start with. i'd invest in local gun shops, funeral homes and cemeteries if this get's off the ground.:jump:

bigstick61
04-08-2009, 4:13 PM
Some of the posts that I have seen lately scare me. I assume many of them are made in the moment or in jest but all the same, considering the other side can read what people type it doesn't speak well of us. There is two common themes that I see that disturb me.

The first is this common idea that a gun can solve the problems/people can police there own homes. I think folks fail to realize or don't care to realize that although we as a society should police ourselves, it is obvious that we don't know how. Owning a gun doesn't make you a policeman. It makes you capable of forcing your will on others. It comes with responsibility, and frankly judging by comments that people make, it leads me to believe our populace on this site believe that with a gun they an force people to act right. Why do cops carry a variety of weapons? Obviously because every situation calls for a different tool. Think about before you speak of grabbing a box of shells to clean up the neighborhood. A gun doesn't make you and your neighbor get along. It only provides you with a last ditch effort to save your life or a loved one or innocents life. Lets face it some areas don't have innocents, therefore stay out and don't get involved. To destroy a quote; warriors appreciate peace the most because they are the ones to pay the cost when it is broken. Lets act like it folks.

Secondly, while I want CCW as much as anyone around (and carry when allowed with my UT and FL for the 3-4 months a year I am out of state). I see a real liability in it. Don't light the torches yet. What I mean is that I read a post about shooting each other by accident if shall issue came to be and there were many CCW out there. Well, if a trip to the local ranges shows me anything over hearing guys talk about this or that on calguns, this is a concern. Why isn't the training forum blowing up? Honestly the guys some folks preaching about CCW can't shoot worth **** (not naming names so don't get pissy). Don't list guns you have down in the sig line or whatever, list your training. Get the right mindset and training. Pay for it, owning 1,000 rifles is awesome but if you never learned to properly shoot them and work in a team all protecting your family and friends in civil unrest or whatever scenario your done. The two way rifle range is scary. Having only been shot at couple times while working I have no idea still what I'm talking about but I know I need to keep training. So please spend the money on that you were going to buy your 8th handgun with and instead train. There are so many good schools out there and that travel there is no excuse. Do some Force on Force training.

The world is eyeing gun owners right now. Live up the responsibility that those before that fought with guns had. Be professional and act like it. We are already behind.

Rant off.

That people are not cops does not make them incapable of performing these kinds of duties, or even doing so with some sort of efectiveness. History has more than proven that.

NorCal MedTac
04-08-2009, 4:16 PM
You missed the point completely. People are cops and cops are the people. What I'm saying is that there seems to be this attitude that with a gun one can "keep the peace" in all situations. That type of thought process is part of a ruler, "the man", dictator, gangster, etc. My point is to think posts through, get training, and use mindset first, not a gun.

M. Sage
04-08-2009, 4:31 PM
My point is to think posts through, get training, and use mindset first, not a gun.

You're jumping to conclusions there. Let's see if you can backtrack and figure out where...

NorCal MedTac
04-08-2009, 4:36 PM
You're jumping to conclusions there. Let's see if you can backtrack and figure out where...

You're right. Everyone on here is an operator. What was I thinking. Good luck all.

M. Sage
04-08-2009, 5:16 PM
You're right. Everyone on here is an operator. What was I thinking. Good luck all.

That's not what I'm saying, either. But you are assuming that this will be exclusively untrained hicks. Don't assume, man.

You have quite the talent for over-stating with blanket statements, don't you? :p

Swiss
04-08-2009, 5:41 PM
Finally someone talking some common sense around here!

And as far as training goes, unless you're defending your homes in times of great civil unrest, combining untrained civilians with firearms is just gonna be bad news for everyone.

Some of the posts that I have seen lately scare me. I assume many of them are made in the moment or in jest but all the same, considering the other side can read what people type it doesn't speak well of us. There is two common themes that I see that disturb me.

The first is this common idea that a gun can solve the problems/people can police there own homes. I think folks fail to realize or don't care to realize that although we as a society should police ourselves, it is obvious that we don't know how. Owning a gun doesn't make you a policeman. It makes you capable of forcing your will on others. It comes with responsibility, and frankly judging by comments that people make, it leads me to believe our populace on this site believe that with a gun they an force people to act right. Why do cops carry a variety of weapons? Obviously because every situation calls for a different tool. Think about before you speak of grabbing a box of shells to clean up the neighborhood. A gun doesn't make you and your neighbor get along. It only provides you with a last ditch effort to save your life or a loved one or innocents life. Lets face it some areas don't have innocents, therefore stay out and don't get involved. To destroy a quote; warriors appreciate peace the most because they are the ones to pay the cost when it is broken. Lets act like it folks.

Secondly, while I want CCW as much as anyone around (and carry when allowed with my UT and FL for the 3-4 months a year I am out of state). I see a real liability in it. Don't light the torches yet. What I mean is that I read a post about shooting each other by accident if shall issue came to be and there were many CCW out there. Well, if a trip to the local ranges shows me anything over hearing guys talk about this or that on calguns, this is a concern. Why isn't the training forum blowing up? Honestly the guys some folks preaching about CCW can't shoot worth **** (not naming names so don't get pissy). Don't list guns you have down in the sig line or whatever, list your training. Get the right mindset and training. Pay for it, owning 1,000 rifles is awesome but if you never learned to properly shoot them and work in a team all protecting your family and friends in civil unrest or whatever scenario your done. The two way rifle range is scary. Having only been shot at couple times while working I have no idea still what I'm talking about but I know I need to keep training. So please spend the money on that you were going to buy your 8th handgun with and instead train. There are so many good schools out there and that travel there is no excuse. Do some Force on Force training.

The world is eyeing gun owners right now. Live up the responsibility that those before that fought with guns had. Be professional and act like it. We are already behind.

Rant off.

NorCal MedTac
04-08-2009, 6:00 PM
All you need is a 30-30 and a pocket full of shells!

Not trying to only use the above quote as an example but I am an un-trained hick when it comes to using computers, I see countless others in many threads to use as well. Now I don't want to ASSUME anything about this quote. Like I said I'm just trying to use a POSSIBLE example to see where I get MY OPINION although I am not making a blanket statement about the entire user group of calguns. However, I do stand by the fact that there are some poor choice of words and therefore mindset if they stand behind their words. SFPCSERVICE- nothing against you when I scrolled back yours was the first one I saw.

Our enemies (political in this reference) want to say that shall issue is not safe because the wrong people can get guns. What does the above quote tell folks. If I was a brady family or an alcoholic sex addict (am I assuming too much with my Gavin Newsom) I would use this against us ("gun people"). How can we give permits to people who when we lay off cops think that a hand full of shells will fix problems of society. Look I truly believe that for some individuals in our society a bullet is the only cure (theres my dumb statement to add). All I am saying is that save those statements for when the country is watching or listening.

As far as my comments on training go if anyone is insulted by that then they need training. The cop that thinks he can shoot just because he went through the academy is just as dangerous as the guy that guys a ****load of guns and sits around and reads SWAT all day. Once again don't want to step on anyones toes because I'm sure there are some amazing warriors in our mix but there are lot of guys wanting CCW that should step up their game. For their/families sake. Have you ever met a true warrior or not just a warrior, any true professional in any arena (sports, teaching, medicine, anything) that thought they are as trained as they can be? What do you really think of them? I am not a warrior in any regards, I train as much as I can whenever I can and with who I can. I am nowhere near a gunman. I do consider myself a professional in my career of being a medic. I'm a professional because I know my limits and after a decade of working on a rig I still get all the training I can there too.

Sorry if anyone thinks I feel they individually are a "hick" its not meant as that. But if you are feeling insulted, is it because any of this is speaking to you? And if so what can you do to change that.

M Sage and bigstick I appreciate you forcing me to try to clarify what I am trying to say. I hope I did so. I am perhaps speaking to some friends on here trying to emphasize some points because I give a **** about them and want them to come home from their shifts.

M. Sage
04-08-2009, 6:22 PM
Ok, now that makes a lot more sense. The previous posts you made sounded awfully cynical and defeatist.

I seriously only took the quote in your post as a reference to western movie posses.

NorCal MedTac
04-08-2009, 6:37 PM
I seriously only took the quote in your post as a reference to western movie posses.

HAH! Alright, I'm off to go see how many fake numbers my fat *** can get tonight (speaking of needing to train).

cpl g
04-08-2009, 10:55 PM
is anyone here actually in the militia? If so, I would like to know more about this militia from the source, rather than the media. I believe my skills can be quite useful to this organization, given i agree with the intentions.

TheBundo
04-08-2009, 11:04 PM
You forgot vigilante, which contains the root word "vigilance" which means to be aware or watchful. The other word that really bugs me is communism, which was high jacked by the Leninists to promote their form of totalitarianism. In fact it has the root word "commune" which means to come together for a common purpose as in community or communion.

Just a thought, could this bring back "hue and cry"?

Hmmm, it's queer that people keep hijacking the meanings of words. :eek:;)

How many of you remember the advent of the Guardian Angels in NYC? Didn't they try coming to Oakland?

gotgunz
04-09-2009, 12:22 AM
Didn't they try coming to Oakland?

I seem to remember something about them getting their asses kicked and leaving Oakland too.

nick
04-09-2009, 12:32 AM
It was a ridiculous concept to begin with. A bunch of unarmed do-gooders going to a gangster paradise and expecting to survive for long enough to do any good by patrolling it (did I mention unarmed?) :)

randy
04-09-2009, 12:57 AM
When I was a kid Stockton was a nice place to live. It sounds like you guys did a bad job of taking care of the place and didn't take out the trash.

D53
04-09-2009, 1:42 AM
Did anyone actually watch the segment on the news? The guy was riding down the street in a rascal or scooter chair. I am not trying to bash on handicapped people, but with his age and status, if he tried to pull some wannabe enforcer crap with me, I would tell him to go blow a goat and walk off. I am not a trouble maker, but if that is my attitude, then what do you think trouble makers would say or do? I hate to knock a veteran but this guy is out of his mind. He wants to charge $350 an hour per man and bill the city. Well why the hell would the city pay some citizens that much money when they can pay POST trained LEOs less money? ah ridiculous :rolleyes:

Mayhem
04-09-2009, 2:14 AM
Simple Fix for Stockton.

START ISSUING CCW PERMITS!

It's that simple.

Stockton is going to lay off police officers. The police are not obligated to protect the individual citizen any way. Some one wants to form a Malitia beyond the City's control and BILL THEM FOR IT just to make a political/legal case of it. This problem would have been nipped in the bud years ago by just going "shall issue" on CCW permits.

Lets face facts. I'm Ex military, A combat Vet, Infantry no less. I have both Law enforcement and security training and experiance. I have more firearms training, experience, and trigger time, then your average SWAT officer will get in his entire carrier. I have never been arrested or suspected let alone convicted of any crime. Yet I can't own a semi automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip. I cannot own a single shot .50 cal rifle. and Very Very few places in the state will issue me a CCW permit - Stockton isn't one of them.

No one seems to have a problem with me carrying a gun to protect others, Even protect people and their property if they pay for it (I like working on computers and networks allot more, It's less political and I don't get shot at as often). BUT GOD FORBID I WANT TO CARRY A FIREARM TO PROTECT MYSELF, MY FAMILY, OR MY PROPERTY, FOR MYSELF!

(technically you cannot use lethal force to protect property in California because here we believe a criminals life is more important then your property ... or you!)

God I need to move outa this Chicken $#!+ State.

CnCFunFactory
04-09-2009, 2:28 AM
Here's a thought... what if they just patrolled their own property?

evollep3
04-09-2009, 3:08 AM
hmm I Live in stockton and i think by laying off 40 officers we are just seeing trouble ready to happen and in my opinion I think they are doing an honorable thing either as a group or just a stunt to keep the officers from being laid off

M. Sage
04-09-2009, 4:02 AM
is anyone here actually in the militia? If so, I would like to know more about this militia from the source, rather than the media. I believe my skills can be quite useful to this organization, given i agree with the intentions.

Umm.. we're all in the Militia. Read up on the Militia Acts...

rjf
04-09-2009, 8:54 AM
Politicians always threaten to lay off cops, firefighters and teachers in order to raid your wallet. There is a huge bloated administration infrastructure that could easily be eliminated by 95% and still allow the same level of service. Never support a tax increase for any reason.

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 8:55 AM
"Why do cops carry a variety of weapons? Obviously because every situation calls for a different tool."


That's why I never leave the house without 2 tools I am legally able to carry in this state. A knife, and pepper spray. In reality I think there are many more situations in which pepper spray could be used and would be justified then use of a firearm.

If you come to the table with only 1 tool, your options become pretty limited. You either run like hell, go hands on, or go to guns, none of which might be the best choice. I think if you rant on here about wanting CCW but you don't already carry the above mentioned tools then you're missing out.

Gator Monroe
04-09-2009, 8:57 AM
The Ronald Reagan Special Task Force(Riverside 1976- ?) was tops in this endevor in California !:thumbsup:

gotgunz
04-09-2009, 11:08 AM
That's why I never leave the house without 2 tools I am legally able to carry in this state.

Me too!

Gun and extra mag.

Lancear15
04-09-2009, 11:18 AM
When I was a kid Stockton was a nice place to live. It sounds like you guys did a bad job of taking care of the place and didn't take out the trash.

You Randy, are just as much to blame for the condition of the economy and the election of the president.

Place blame where it should be, one name Alex Spanos, Stockton born massive real estate developer OVER developed Stockton. He created to many "affordable" houses(affordable to poor uncivilized loons) in stockton. At least 60% of the city was built by spanos. It made him a billionaire and ruined the city. He also started the entire nor cal roach coach epidemic,don't believe there is one on every corner in stockton. He was a middle class baker and started his fortune with lunch trucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Spanos

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 12:37 PM
Me too!

Gun and extra mag.


If you're LEGALLY able to.....good for you and more power to you! :thumbsup: :p

If you're not......I wouldn't be admitting that publicly myself.

Even if I could legally carry.....I'd still carry the pepper spray and the knife.

gotgunz
04-09-2009, 12:44 PM
No you wouldn't; the gun and mag(s) weigh enough, no reason to add more to the mid section.

LOL

And not only am I legal I am also exempt from having to take the re-qual every two years :thumbsup:

Untamed1972
04-09-2009, 1:24 PM
No you wouldn't; the gun and mag(s) weigh enough, no reason to add more to the mid section.

LOL

And not only am I legal I am also exempt from having to take the re-qual every two years :thumbsup:

Well whoopdy doo for you! Show off!! :p does that badge get heavy after awhile?

cpl g
04-09-2009, 9:42 PM
"We are all in the militia"??? Im not sure exactly what you mean by that. It doesnt sound like everyone here supports any type of militia, so there for not everyone here is not in a "militia." If you are, in some way, stating that every U.S. citizen is in a militia, that is incorrect. Regardless, I am not here to debate this, or to look up the militia acts, as you suggested. I am, however, looking to help this "stockton militia" out by whatever means possible. If you can provide contact info for the group, by all means, please do so.

cpl g
04-09-2009, 9:54 PM
Here is a thought for some of you... while yes I see your point about "unarmed do gooders" not being able to survive, what do you think thier chances of survival are when adding a few Marines into the mix. A few of my buddies and myself, all grunt combat vets from Iraq, are looking into this group. What will that makes thier odds then. We are all trained in the (obviously) American, and British doctorines of M.O.U.T./S.A.S.O. I personally, returned form Fallujah just last year, and needless to say, tactics are still fresh in my mind. Do all of you in doubt think that a bunch of gangsters can overcome some Marines. I certainly hope not. Oh, and instead of bad mouthing those with the balls to stand fight when it is obvious it is need, please, continue to coware in your homes as you stand by and watch our great country get raped from the inside. At least these men are willing to stand up for what they believe in, and attempt to make this world a better place.

KylaGWolf
04-09-2009, 10:04 PM
Alex Spanos ruined many good towns but that is beside the point. And the buildings he built in the town I lived in were far from "affordable" unless you had three to four grand a month in wages. Sad part is I know some that lived inside of it and they said it was horrid. Poorly built and not worth it.

Jamez
04-09-2009, 11:21 PM
I'd work for free and even provide gas, on my own dime, in return for issueing me a CCW.:)
ditto

m98
04-09-2009, 11:34 PM
Simple Fix for Stockton.

START ISSUING CCW PERMITS!

It's that simple.

Stockton is going to lay off police officers. The police are not obligated to protect the individual citizen any way. Some one wants to form a Malitia beyond the City's control and BILL THEM FOR IT just to make a political/legal case of it. This problem would have been nipped in the bud years ago by just going "shall issue" on CCW permits.

Lets face facts. I'm Ex military, A combat Vet, Infantry no less. I have both Law enforcement and security training and experiance. I have more firearms training, experience, and trigger time, then your average SWAT officer will get in his entire carrier. I have never been arrested or suspected let alone convicted of any crime. Yet I can't own a semi automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip. I cannot own a single shot .50 cal rifle. and Very Very few places in the state will issue me a CCW permit - Stockton isn't one of them.

No one seems to have a problem with me carrying a gun to protect others, Even protect people and their property if they pay for it (I like working on computers and networks allot more, It's less political and I don't get shot at as often). BUT GOD FORBID I WANT TO CARRY A FIREARM TO PROTECT MYSELF, MY FAMILY, OR MY PROPERTY, FOR MYSELF!

(technically you cannot use lethal force to protect property in California because here we believe a criminals life is more important then your property ... or you!)

God I need to move outa this Chicken $#!+ State.


Ohhh, I soooo 1000% agreed......most REAL gun nuts can shoot/operate firearms like no "trained" cop can do......I say "JUST let stockton turn into the next sh*thole(L.A)(Robocop)"...Stockton&Kommifornia Politicians only care about how much $$$ they can stuff into their pockets......

m98
04-09-2009, 11:38 PM
Here is a thought for some of you... while yes I see your point about "unarmed do gooders" not being able to survive, what do you think thier chances of survival are when adding a few Marines into the mix. A few of my buddies and myself, all grunt combat vets from Iraq, are looking into this group. What will that makes thier odds then. We are all trained in the (obviously) American, and British doctorines of M.O.U.T./S.A.S.O. I personally, returned form Fallujah just last year, and needless to say, tactics are still fresh in my mind. Do all of you in doubt think that a bunch of gangsters can overcome some Marines. I certainly hope not. Oh, and instead of bad mouthing those with the balls to stand fight when it is obvious it is need, please, continue to coware in your homes as you stand by and watch our great country get raped from the inside. At least these men are willing to stand up for what they believe in, and attempt to make this world a better place.

The only sad part about trying to make a better/safer stockton/kommifornia is that the law isn't on the "good" side, but rather the opposite. I kinda think the saying:three S.S.S's come into play here if you know what I mean.

Gator Monroe
04-11-2009, 9:05 AM
ditto

I would do DF for a 10 year non-revocable CCW good through out the State of California !

siliconphreak
04-11-2009, 3:55 PM
I don't see any good coming from this.

7x57
04-11-2009, 4:08 PM
"We are all in the militia"??? Im not sure exactly what you mean by that.


We know that. This is why he suggested you read the law, because you don't know it.


It doesnt sound like everyone here supports any type of militia, so there for not everyone here is not in a "militia." If you are, in some way, stating that every U.S. citizen is in a militia, that is incorrect.


Oddly enough, the law you refused to read says every able-bodied man between 17 and 45 is a member of the unorganized militia. Can you provide documentation that the Militia Act of 1903 is not still the law of the land?


Regardless, I am not here to debate this, or to look up the militia acts, as you suggested.

Then I suggest you quit making assertions about what the militia is or who is a member of it, since you clearly haven't the faintest clue about either the historical or current legal definition. You aren't required to know that, I guess, but it's pretty silly to act as though you do.

7x57

movie zombie
04-11-2009, 4:56 PM
a big fat accident waiting to happen.....and "i'm sorry, i mistook you for a bad guy" just isn't going to cut it. know how ticked off people are when that's what the cops say?! ain't nothing to how ticked off people will be when someone in this so-called militia makes a mistake.

mz

gotgunz
04-11-2009, 7:16 PM
Well whoopdy doo for you! Show off!! :p does that badge get heavy after awhile?

LOL!

No badge.... and don't be a hater; it's not very becoming.

:p

SimpleCountryActuary
04-11-2009, 7:36 PM
Certainly, no bad can come of this. :eek:

Nothing bad at all. Truckloads of armed vigilantes with armbands speeding through city streets shooting at elusive gang members will have the same effect on the TV viewing public as a Happy Days float in the Rose Parade.

rolo
04-12-2009, 11:00 AM
What happened in the last six months that all of these weirdos decided to come out of the woodwork and inflict their craziness on CalGuns? Oh wait, I think I know.

You can play the blame game about who made Stockton what it is today, but it isn't as simple as pointing at Spanos. Most of the issues facing Stockton have been brewing for the last 60-80 years. The recent run up in "affordable housing" development and the predatory lending practices are only the latest provocation of social unrest. You can point to the slow decline of heavy industry, the propagation of the belief that manual labor in agriculture is to be abhorred, and the lack of viable alternatives for the distortion of Stockton's social fabric. Let's not even get into the rising real estate prices in the Bay Area forcing low-income families through the Altamont and the resultant "suburbanization" of (let's not forget Modesto either) Stockton.

Some old fart (I'd still thank him for his service) wanting to get the kids off his lawn, dreaming about the "good old days", insisting that he knows better than those yahoos in office downtown, making the news says more about what is considered newsworthy on a slow news day than anything about the state of Stockton today. If my grandpa had an article written for every great idea he had... :TFH:

Here is a thought for some of you... (snip)

Mulay El Raisuli
04-12-2009, 12:19 PM
We know that. This is why he suggested you read the law, because you don't know it.



Oddly enough, the law you refused to read says every able-bodied man between 17 and 45 is a member of the unorganized militia. Can you provide documentation that the Militia Act of 1903 is not still the law of the land?



Then I suggest you quit making assertions about what the militia is or who is a member of it, since you clearly haven't the faintest clue about either the historical or current legal definition. You aren't required to know that, I guess, but it's pretty silly to act as though you do.

7x57


I'm so glad you took the effort to point out reality to him.

So, I didn't have to. :-)

The Raisuli

Gator Monroe
04-12-2009, 12:39 PM
What happened in the last six months that all of these weirdos decided to come out of the woodwork and inflict their craziness on CalGuns? Oh wait, I think I know.

You can play the blame game about who made Stockton what it is today, but it isn't as simple as pointing at Spanos. Most of the issues facing Stockton have been brewing for the last 60-80 years. The recent run up in "affordable housing" development and the predatory lending practices are only the latest provocation of social unrest. You can point to the slow decline of heavy industry, the propagation of the belief that manual labor in agriculture is to be abhorred, and the lack of viable alternatives for the distortion of Stockton's social fabric. Let's not even get into the rising real estate prices in the Bay Area forcing low-income families through the Altamont and the resultant "suburbanization" of (let's not forget Modesto either) Stockton.

Some old fart (I'd still thank him for his service) wanting to get the kids off his lawn, dreaming about the "good old days", insisting that he knows better than those yahoos in office downtown, making the news says more about what is considered newsworthy on a slow news day than anything about the state of Stockton today. If my grandpa had an article written for every great idea he had... :TFH:

When ever anyone says "The Good Old Days" it makes me think they are seeing Jim Crow & Bull Conner insted of Mom,Baseball & Apple pie ?

GaffSD
04-12-2009, 3:35 PM
Man...

It's the extremities of the issue that scare me... Both from a PR standpoint, and a practical one.

I was on a Navy Security Alert Team to respond to threats to our missile systems. We were, even in the service GROSSLY unprepared. I am far more prepared to protect my home today.

That said, I have to concur with the call for training.

We need some kind of FREE baseline training and qualification for the public.

There has to be some instructors that would do some pro-bono work that would both serve the community and serve as a sales mechanism for future sales...

Ron

7x57
04-12-2009, 4:32 PM
I'm so glad you took the effort to point out reality to him.

So, I didn't have to. :-)


Tag-team effort. ;)

I kinda get protective of the term "militia," since it's become something nasty and yet the original meaning is something I would like more of, not less. I don't usually talk about it, because I try to stick to one far-out issue at a time, but I'd like to move back toward keeping a more skeleton regular army backed up by much more widespread non-full-time citizen-soldiers.

But to really do the job would require vast, vast changes in our military system, and I have little hope of them happening. (But I note the recent expansion in the use of the State Military Reserves based at least partly on budgetary considerations, which is a step in that direction.) There would be something to like and something to hate for every group, if done resolutely to the logical end: privately own military issue small-arms, possibly universal draft to part-time service, and so on. Nobody would sign on for the whole trip. :rolleyes:

7x57

AJAX22
04-12-2009, 4:54 PM
The only thing unusual about this is the fact that they are being open and vocal about what they are doing.

Regular guys in small communities frequently come together informally to encourage disruptive/criminal elements to leave.

However, I think this guy may be making a point by being public about this and announcing his intentions.... government really really really doesn't like to loose its monopoly on coercion, and by his suggesting that they form a militia to replace the 40 police officers being cut from the budget, it may encourage those in charge to reconsider and keep the 40 officers and cut some other funding instead.

That being said, I don't mind the idea of the citizenry taking a more active role in policing the community. everyone knows who/what/where the criminals/crimes are taking place in the community, and the residents can be much more effective than the police in having an effect on crime.

Timberline
04-12-2009, 7:51 PM
That being said, I don't mind the idea of the citizenry taking a more active role in policing the community. everyone knows who/what/where the criminals/crimes are taking place in the community, and the residents can be much more effective than the police in having an effect on crime.

Really? Everyone knows who the criminals are, and where the crimes are taking place? Sadly, the residents of Tracy are now all too well aware of how wrong that statement is.

JDoe
04-12-2009, 8:08 PM
Regular guys in small communities frequently come together informally to encourage disruptive/criminal elements to leave.

Been there done that with a group (about 30 in all) of neighbors men and women with the unofficial blessing of the authorities. Some LEOs gave us tips on what we could do and could not do so we would stay out of trouble. We always stayed on the right side of the law and did not engage or escalate. Trouble left the neighborhood within weeks and never returned. :thumbsup:

We legally did what law enforcement could not legally do.

AJAX22
04-13-2009, 3:36 AM
Really? Everyone knows who the criminals are, and where the crimes are taking place? Sadly, the residents of Tracy are now all too well aware of how wrong that statement is.

IIRC law enforcement didn't solve that one either....

lone wolf psycho's don't factor significantly into crime statistics, most of those cases wind up getting solved because of human intell (i.e. people in the community observing strange behavior and tipping off law enforcement) anyway.

Everyone in a community knows who the career criminals are, everyone knows who the thief's are, everyone knows who the drug dealers are, everyone knows who the prostitutes are, everyone knows who the vagrants are etc. etc.

Mulay El Raisuli
04-13-2009, 4:27 AM
Tag-team effort. ;)

I kinda get protective of the term "militia," since it's become something nasty and yet the original meaning is something I would like more of, not less. I don't usually talk about it, because I try to stick to one far-out issue at a time, but I'd like to move back toward keeping a more skeleton regular army backed up by much more widespread non-full-time citizen-soldiers.

But to really do the job would require vast, vast changes in our military system, and I have little hope of them happening. (But I note the recent expansion in the use of the State Military Reserves based at least partly on budgetary considerations, which is a step in that direction.) There would be something to like and something to hate for every group, if done resolutely to the logical end: privately own military issue small-arms, possibly universal draft to part-time service, and so on. Nobody would sign on for the whole trip. :rolleyes:

7x57


I see that we agree on more than I thought. But, I just don't see any of that happening.

The Raisuli

ZapThyCat
04-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Aren't Militias illegal no matter what?

Militias are never illegal. You watch too much TV.

westcoastr
04-14-2009, 7:06 AM
how about they name it "The Ministry of Good Manners"

my only experience with Fresno is being stuck in the middle of a 4 hour police cordon as they executed a crackdown on "cruising". ugh

Seesm
04-15-2009, 12:55 AM
Militias are never illegal. You watch too much TV.

Hhmm weird on here they said it was..And if you rea dit on Cal Guns it is ALWAYS true.... You knew that right? :)

Wild Squid
04-15-2009, 1:03 AM
Why the hell would anyone want to poke soft butter up a bobcats A** with a hot fireplace poker? Huh?

AaronHorrocks
04-15-2009, 11:01 AM
Aren't Militias illegal no matter what?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Where's the illegal part?

fullrearview
04-15-2009, 2:18 PM
Why the hell would anyone want to poke soft butter up a bobcats A** with a hot fireplace poker? Huh?

Cuz we like a challenge!!:43:

Jerm
05-26-2009, 9:49 PM
I have a CA CCW which I guess depending on where you live in the state can be easy or impossible to obtain the Sheriffs Office in our county uses the money from CCW permits to help fund the SO now there is an idea for cash strapped cities and counties a fee that law abiding citzens are willing to pay and the departments can use the money to fund themselves. I would imagine counties with a large population base could raise quite a nice pile of funding without raising taxes. But until these people have to really look for other revenue streams i guess they will ignore it.

Jerm

JDay
05-26-2009, 11:15 PM
Great, they're going to be calling themselves a militia AND wearing armbands! You know who else wore armbands.

n6nvr
05-27-2009, 1:32 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Where's the illegal part?

Well to be a legal militia in this state there are a few little things mentioned in the Military and Veterans Code. Outside of those, probably using the term is only going to cause confusion with those groups where everybody but the truckdriver's slow cousin is a Colonel and he's at least a Captain. Where Billy bob and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl got their pichurs in the paper for trying to plant bombs at the local (insert your target pick of choice). While self-appointed militias ARE not illegal, like it or not, most folks have a poor opinion of them

Citizens Watch is probably not as likely to carry negative stereotypical connotations.

nick
05-27-2009, 1:44 AM
Great, they're going to be calling themselves a militia AND wearing armbands! You know who else wore armbands.

MPs? UN peacekeepers? Red Cross? :confused:

AirflowPimp
05-27-2009, 3:17 AM
I realize this thread was recently resurected, so it's probably been forgotten about till now, but its the first time i have read it, but i felt like responding to some of the old comments anyways.

I am a fairly new member here who joined a while ago but didn't post until recently. I have mainly just lurked and read alot of the material for my AR build, as well as general threads that caught my eye. So being that you guys post some interesting stuff, I have read a lot of threads. :D

My point is, I can't even count how many times I have read posts saying "the media is so biased" or "they tell us what THEY want us to hear" or "they have their own agenda, and the way they covered that story isn't even close to what really happened". Which by all means are ABSOLUTELY correct. The thing I find funny is that alot of posts like that--or the simple agreeance of posts like that--have come from a lot of the guys who are criticizing the actions of the old coot based solely on the medias representation of the situation.

In response to some posts about Pettit himself patrolling in his wheel chair--I highly doubt that will happen. (But if it did, I would make a drive up to stockton just to see it myself and get a good laugh. :jump:)

But my assumption is that he will most likely be the one that runs the operation from behind a desk in the safety of his own home. (I would hope so anyways. :rolleyes:) Here is an example of the medias way of doing things. It also pertains to him patrolling the streets himself.

"Pettet, a midtown neighborhood activist who has a Desert Eagle pistol, said militiamen will detain suspected criminals and call police to arrest them. They will wear armbands and will patrol in a car marked by a magnetic sign, he said."

He never said that he was going to patrol the streets himself, unless i missed that somewhere in the article. The reporter probably asked him at some point in the interview "do you own a gun yourself mr. Pettet? To which he may have answered "Yes, a Desert Eagle." So the reporter decided to add the bolded section and then the preceding text to make the reader draw their own conclusion that he, himself was planning on patrolling.

In response to the comments about a bunch of hicks with guns, or whatever was said. Can't remember, too many pages ago. LOL... The article did say this; "Alan Pettet, 66, said he has recruited 18 men, most of whom are ex-military. He said the militia will train at a firing range" So at least he is recruiting trained peeps. Although being that they are "EX" military, it may be a bunch of other 66 year old Vets. ? Lets hope not. LOL

Dont get me wrong, while reading the article, I have a lot of the same views as many of you guys, but I can't dismiss the historical proven trend of the media in their desire and ability to present people as fools to the public. They tend to take almost every qoute out of context by snipping parts from the middle of a sentance and making it sound like the person said something completely opposite of what was intended.