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Untamed1972
04-07-2009, 7:29 PM
What exactly is the difference between having to register a firearm and the DROS?

DROS being "dealer record of sale". So even in free states when purchase id done from a dealer there is still a record of sale sent to ATF is there not?

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture here when people resist mention of "registration". Not that I'm for it.....just in my mind, if there are records of the sale kept...aren't they all essentially recorded at least if you buy from a dealer?

Vtec44
04-07-2009, 7:31 PM
To me, DROS is registration because it can be traced back to you.

Librarian
04-07-2009, 7:35 PM
What exactly is the difference between having to register a firearm and the DROS?

DROS being "dealer record of sale". So even in free states when purchase id done from a dealer there is still a record of sale sent to ATF is there not?

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture here when people resist mention of "registration". Not that I'm for it.....just in my mind, if there are records of the sale kept...aren't they all essentially recorded at least if you buy from a dealer?

Federal 4473 info is supposed to be left at the dealers. BATF has requested funds to create a database of that info, and the request has been routinely denied for years. If there actually is such a database at the Federal level, it's being held a really close secret. The system is 4473 data collection, background check, approve/deny, discard - we think.

OTOH, California DROS info, these days, is submitted digitally and probably dumped into the state DOJ database with minimal processing. I believe some prior-to-online DROS data has been manually entered.

ad6mj
04-07-2009, 7:35 PM
DROS is registration for handguns. On long guns no make, model or serial number goes to DOJ. No record is sent to ATF. Dealer keeps 4473 and enters info in bound book.

CaliforniaLiberal
04-07-2009, 7:43 PM
You can send in a CA DOJ form and they will send back to you a list of the guns that you have purchased. It may not be called registration, but there is a record of each DROS purchase.


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf

CL

Vtec44
04-07-2009, 7:50 PM
It may not be called registration, but there is a record of each DROS purchase.

... and people always tell me to shut it when I call it handgun "registration". :rolleyes:

ohsmily
04-07-2009, 8:19 PM
You can send in a CA DOJ form and they will send back to you a list of the guns that you have purchased. It may not be called registration, but there is a record of each DROS purchase.


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf

CL

Gee, that's amazing that they could do that considering neither the make, model nor serial number are provided to the DOJ on long gun purchases. :rolleyes:

Handguns ARE registered in CA, long guns are not.

lioneaglegriffin
04-07-2009, 8:21 PM
anyone see the movie Red Dawn? :TFH:

what was one of the places the russians went on day one? to the local gun store.

CHS
04-07-2009, 10:04 PM
anyone see the movie Red Dawn? :TFH:

what was one of the places the russians went on day one? to the local gun store.

For the federal form 4473.

Here's how it generally breaks down at a gun store in CA:

The FFL is required to have you fill out a form 4473. This is the federal form. It is paper. It is destroyed after 20 years. If the FFL gives up his license before 20 years, the 4473's are required by law to be sent to the BATFE.

The FFL will also run a DROS on the buyer. This is a CA restriction only. For non-handgun sales, *NO* firearms information is submitted on the DROS. The DROS is strictly done to enable CA to do the background check on the buyer. This information is (supposedly) expunged after 15 days. A paper copy of the DROS goes into the 4473, to be destroyed after 20 years.

For handgun sales, the FFL will run a DROS also, but in this case identifying information for the firearm is submitted as part of the DROS. This includes caliber, make, model, color, action-type, barrel length and serial number. This information is submitted and the DoJ holds onto this information. This *IS* handgun registration for the state of CA.

For non-handgun sales in CA, DROS contains LESS information than the 4473 does.

CHS
04-07-2009, 10:05 PM
You can send in a CA DOJ form and they will send back to you a list of the guns that you have purchased. It may not be called registration, but there is a record of each DROS purchase.


CA only has registration for handguns. Handgun information is submitted along with DROS. Non-handgun firearm information is NOT submitted along with DROS. There is no registration in CA for non-handgun title 1 firearms.

Vtec44
04-07-2009, 10:15 PM
CA only has registration for handguns. Handgun information is submitted along with DROS. Non-handgun firearm information is NOT submitted along with DROS. There is no registration in CA for non-handgun title 1 firearms.

But DROS shows that you have bought a longgun, even though other information like manufacture and serial number are not submitted. All they need to do is to contact the dealer and request the information.

CHS
04-07-2009, 10:26 PM
But DROS shows that you have bought a longgun, even though other information like manufacture and serial number are not submitted. All they need to do is to contact the dealer and request the information.

They have 15 days to do that, otherwise like I said the DROS information is expunged.

Besides, that would go the same for the other 49 states. You still need to undergo a background check to purchase a gun even in states that don't have waiting periods. When the background check is run they know you bought a gun, so they can go check it out.

Vtec44
04-07-2009, 10:37 PM
They have 15 days to do that, otherwise like I said the DROS information is expunged.

You mean after 15 days, there will not be any record of me ever purchasing a long gun other than the 4473 form that's kept at the dealer?

CHS
04-07-2009, 11:04 PM
You mean after 15 days, there will not be any record of me ever purchasing a long gun other than the 4473 form that's kept at the dealer?

By California law, DROS information is supposed to be deleted/expunged after 15 days. The exception is handgun registration.

Quiet
04-08-2009, 5:40 AM
Penal Code 12077
(a) The Department of Justice shall prescribe the form of the register and the record of electronic transfer pursuant to Section 12074.
(b)(1) For handguns, information contained in the register or record of electronic transfer shall be the date and time of sale, make of firearm, peace officer exemption status pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 12078 and the agency name, dealer waiting period exemption pursuant to subdivision (n) of Section 12078, dangerous weapons permit holder waiting period exemption pursuant to subdivision (r) of Section 12078, curio and relic waiting period exemption pursuant to subdivision (t) of Section 12078, California Firearms Dealer number issued pursuant to Section 12071, for transactions occurring prior to January 1, 2003, the purchaser's basic firearms safety certificate number issued pursuant to Sections 12805 and 12809, for transactions occurring on or after January 1, 2003, the purchaser's handgun safety certificate number issued pursuant to Article 8 (commencing with Section 12800), manufacturer's name if stamped on the firearm, model name or number, if stamped on the firearm, if applicable, serial number, other number (if more than one serial number is stamped on the firearm), any identification number or mark assigned to the firearm pursuant to Section 12092, caliber, type of firearm, if the firearm is new or used, barrel length, color of the firearm, full name of purchaser, purchaser's complete date of birth, purchaser's local address, if current address is temporary, complete permanent address of purchaser, identification of purchaser, purchaser's place of birth (state or country), purchaser's complete telephone number, purchaser's occupation, purchaser's sex, purchaser's physical description, all legal names and aliases ever used by the purchaser, yes or no answer to questions that prohibit purchase including, but not limited to, conviction of a felony as described in Section 12021 or an offense described in Section 12021.1, the purchaser's status as a person described in Section 8100 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, whether the purchaser is a person who has been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to others or found not guilty by reason of insanity, whether the purchaser is a person who has been found incompetent to stand trial or placed under conservatorship by a court pursuant to Section 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, signature of purchaser, signature of salesperson (as a witness to the purchaser's signature), salesperson's certificate of eligibility number if he or she has obtained a certificate of eligibility, name and complete address of the dealer or firm selling the firearm as shown on the dealer's license, the establishment number, if assigned, the dealer's complete business telephone number, any information required by Section 12082, any information required to determine whether or not paragraph (6) of subdivision (c) of Section 12072 applies, and a statement of the penalties for any person signing a fictitious name or address or for knowingly furnishing any incorrect information or for knowingly omitting any information required to be provided for the register.
(2) Effective January 1, 2003, the purchaser shall provide his or her right thumbprint on the register in a manner prescribed by the department. No exception to this requirement shall be permitted except by regulations adopted by the department.
(3) The firearms dealer shall record on the register or record of electronic transfer the date that the handgun is delivered.
(c)(1) For firearms other than handguns, information contained in the register or record of electronic transfer shall be the date and time of sale, peace officer exemption status pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 12078 and the agency name, auction or event waiting period exemption pursuant to subdivision (g) of Section 12078, California Firearms Dealer number issued pursuant to Section 12071, dangerous weapons permit holder waiting period exemption pursuant to subdivision (r) of Section 12078, curio and relic waiting period exemption pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (t) of Section 12078, full name of purchaser, purchaser's complete date of birth, purchaser's local address, if current address is temporary, complete permanent address of purchaser, identification of purchaser, purchaser's place of birth (state or country), purchaser's complete telephone number, purchaser's occupation, purchaser's sex, purchaser's physical description, all legal names and aliases ever used by the purchaser, yes or no answer to questions that prohibit purchase, including, but not limited to, conviction of a felony as described in Section 12021 or an offense described in Section 12021.1, the purchaser's status as a person described in Section 8100 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, whether the purchaser is a person who has been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to others or found not guilty by reason of insanity, whether the purchaser is a person who has been found incompetent to stand trial or placed under conservatorship by a court pursuant to Section 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, signature of purchaser, signature of salesperson (as a witness to the purchaser's signature), salesperson's certificate of eligibility number if he or she has obtained a certificate of eligibility, name and complete address of the dealer or firm selling the firearm as shown on the dealer's license, the establishment number, if assigned, the dealer's complete business telephone number, any information required by Section 12082, and a statement of the penalties for any person signing a fictitious name or address or for knowingly furnishing any incorrect information or for knowingly omitting any information required to be provided for the register.
(2) Effective January 1, 2003, the purchaser shall provide his or her right thumbprint on the register in a manner prescribed by the department. No exception to this requirement shall be permitted except by regulations adopted by the department.
(3) The firearms dealer shall record on the register or record of electronic transfer the date that the firearm is delivered.

goldlightlady
04-08-2009, 6:51 AM
untamed,

the difference being that the new law states that you must turn over your mental health records and "any thing else the attorneys general deem necessary" (which is far too broadly worded for my tastes) to obtain your license. which will be akin to your drivers license. you must carry it with you wherever you go. you must give written notice to the attorney general within 3 days if you move stating your old and new address. you will also have three days to notify them if you've sold your weapons or they have been stolen. (of course it would only take most of us a few hours to report a stolen weapon.)

go to the link below to read the full text of the bill:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h45ih.txt.pdf

Untamed1972
04-08-2009, 7:01 AM
Thanks for the info guys. It makes a little more sense now I guess.

So other than the paper form filled out at the dealer, after 15 days there is no record kept at the state level of long gun purchases in CA?

But at anytime either ATF or DOJ can show up at the dealer and look thru their records?

So theoretically if I requested info from DOJ on guns registered to me the only thing that should come back is hand guns correct?

I am leary of anything done electronically, and that claims to be "expunged". Once something is done electronically it lives on forever somewhere whether the keepers of the info amit it or not. So much data can be stored on such small devices now, who knows what all is out there and where it is. How often is info recovered from someone's harddrive that they "thought was deleted"? Plenty of folks doin' time these days for deleted info recovered from a hard drive, so just cuz it's "expunged" doesn't mean it's gone.

PatriotnMore
04-08-2009, 7:12 AM
Federal 4473 i If there actually is such a database at the Federal level, it's being held a really close secret.

I would take an even money bet, that database is active, and waiting to be made legal, so it can be openly used.

Quiet
04-08-2009, 7:28 AM
So other than the paper form filled out at the dealer, after 15 days there is no record kept at the state level of long gun purchases in CA?

But at anytime either ATF or DOJ can show up at the dealer and look thru their records?

So theoretically if I requested info from DOJ on guns registered to me the only thing that should come back is hand guns correct?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Handguns, registered assault weapons and NFA (DD/MG/SBR/SBS) firearms.

Vtec44
04-08-2009, 8:19 AM
By California law, DROS information is supposed to be deleted/expunged after 15 days.

This I didn't know for long guns. Thanks for the info.

BTF/PTM
04-08-2009, 9:30 AM
Is any gun with a barrel longer than 18" counted as a "long gun"? Or is it limited to guns that shoot bullets (as opposed to shotguns which fire shot)?

On that note, would that mean that some crazy revolver like the one in the original Batman movie (with Michael Keaton) that the Joker had would count as a long gun?

CHS
04-08-2009, 10:00 AM
Is any gun with a barrel longer than 18" counted as a "long gun"? Or is it limited to guns that shoot bullets (as opposed to shotguns which fire shot)?

On that note, would that mean that some crazy revolver like the one in the original Batman movie (with Michael Keaton) that the Joker had would count as a long gun?

Any firearm with an overall length of 26" is considered a "long gun" and is no longer a handgun.

However. If that gun doesn't have a buttstock, it is NOT a rifle or a shotgun, and you still have to be 21 in order to purchase it.

For example: Browning 1919A4. No buttstock. Have to be 21 in order to purchase, but is not registered to you in CA because it is not a handgun. You can legally chop the barrel down to about 12" and still keep the overall length at 26" or greater, making it not a handgun. Doesn't have to have a 16" or 18" barrel. Having the 12" barrel also does not trigger NFA SBR status since it's not a "rifle", it can't be a "short barreled rifle".

Decoligny
04-08-2009, 10:34 AM
anyone see the movie Red Dawn? :TFH:

what was one of the places the russians went on day one? to the local gun store.

That's why you should always buy your guns as far from where you live as possible. That way if the Russkies take over let's say San Diego, they won't know about the guns you bought up in Crescent City. :TFH::rolleyes::TFH:

Asphodel
04-08-2009, 10:41 AM
I'm, admittedly, a bit ignorant in this area, as we got our 'lifetime supply' of handguns (a very few, actually) privately at gun shows some years ago, in a bit of 'panic buying' before the law change regarding handun sales between private collectors.

We haven't any interest in owning long guns newer than fifty years old, so the relatively few long guns we own were all purchased privately.

Thus, we've never felt any need for any sort of licencing, and have never really researched the details.

(my personal position is that I refuse to violate my own 2A rights by submitting to licencure, but, at the same time, I am not willing to risk being considered to be in violation of a 'law', however unconstitutional the law may be.......for the same reason that I'd avoid attracting the attention of any violent criminal gangs.......the Kenyon Ballew and 'Ruby Ridge' cases come to mind)

It would seem to me, tho I could be mistaken, of course, that the term 'bound book' implies the effective equivalent of registration, if the terms of a licence specify that the records contained in the book be maintained for some length of time, and be subject to inspection by any police or government agency on demand.

It would appear to me that the term 'bound book' implies that no pages containing any record may be removed, for any reason.

Am I missing something?

cheers

Carla

shark92651
04-08-2009, 11:21 AM
The "bound book" can be a spreadsheet, although hard-copies should be printed out periodically. The ATF or other government agencies can request a trace of a particular firearm/serial number, and they can come in and perform audits of the paperwork, but I'm not so sure how a blanket "fishing expedition" through a dealer's paperwork would be viewed from a legal standpoint.

lorax3
04-08-2009, 1:10 PM
Just to clarify a few terms.

Feel free to correct me if any of the below is incorrect.

Most of the questions below are in reference to long guns, but I assume some answers may differ if applied to handguns or other firearms.

So the Federal 4473 is NOT a DROS?

Is a DROS only a CA PC term? Or is DROS defined in Title 18? Any purchase of a firearm in the US requires a 4473, since it's at the federal level, right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the DROS is usually the form printed on white paper when a dealer goes into the back room. I assume a dealer slides your CA ID, or CDL/MID and the terminal prints the DROS application or form......

The dealer holds onto a copy of the DROS and the 4473?

Usually a dealer(All the ones I have visited) not only requires you to fill out a 4473, but a proprietary form.
For instance, Big 5 has another form in addition to the 4473 which has places to record the make model etc of the gun you just bought. Has the Big 5 logo on it..etc.

Which form is that? A DROS? Just a form for internal records?

-lorax

lioneaglegriffin
04-08-2009, 1:39 PM
That's why you should always buy your guns as far from where you live as possible. That way if the Russkies take over let's say San Diego, they won't know about the guns you bought up in Crescent City. :TFH::rolleyes::TFH:

oh we don't need to worry about those guys now, its chinese we need to look out for.

triaged
04-08-2009, 1:49 PM
By California law, DROS information is supposed to be deleted/expunged after 15 days. The exception is handgun registration....just like Delaware right:TFH:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=128690
Article link is dead...here is a cut and paste.
Gun purchase glitch raises questions
Del.'s small-arms advocates shocked over DSP recordkeeping

By LEE WILLIAMS • The News Journal • October 28, 2008
Delaware State Police stopped Alvina Vansickle from purchasing a .22-caliber pistol for self-defense because she was too old and a woman, said Superintendent Col. Thomas MacLeish.
The outrage that followed led to the revelation that Delaware State Police had been keeping lists of gun buyers for years; state law requires them to destroy these records after 60 days.
Without so much as a traffic ticket, the 81-year-old Lewes resident should have sailed through the mandatory state police background check when she tried to buy a Taurus revolver from Charlie Steele's Lewes gun shop last August.
Problems started after Steele made the required phone call to state police for approval of the firearms transaction.
An employee in the state police Firearms Transaction Approval Program noticed Vansickle's age and gender, and brought the sale to an immediate halt.
Vansickle's application was then routed to Sgt. Benjamin Nefosky, who heads the firearms approval unit.
According to MacLeish, the transaction was halted over concerns "based upon age and gender."
"To be very honest with you, we have a legal obligation under the law to do approvals," MacLeish said. "We also have an obligation to make sure we're safe, and paying due diligence."
MacLeish said the initial call taker "was concerned this individual never purchased a weapon before. Age and gender caused her to take caution."
As to whether age and gender are included in the state statute as legitimate reasons to reject a firearms purchase, MacLeish stated, "No, they are not."
"I believe there was caution taken on behalf of the call taker," he said. "It was done without malice."
Vansickle's purchase was eventually approved -- 10 days after the initial application -- after she and the dealer were interviewed by police about the purchase. A normal delay is three days.
The sale eventually went through.
Government tracking feared
Word of the delay rebounded around Delaware's small-firearms community, eventually making its way to Dave Lawson, a retired state police lieutenant and firearms instructor. Lawson spoke to his former colleague Nefosky about Vansickle's dilemma, Lawson said.
Lawson said what Nefosky told him revealed there was a much larger problem in the firearms approval unit than keeping a small-caliber revolver out of the hands of an 81-year-old woman.
Lawson said Nefosky told him he searched seven years of firearms transaction records to see if Vansickle had ever bought a gun before.
Some gun owners fear any government agency that tracks gun purchases or keeps lists of who has them. They worry these lists could someday aid in weapons confiscation, fall into the wrong hands and serve as a road map for burglars and thieves, or result in increased scrutiny by law enforcement.
"I was totally drop-jawed," Lawson said. "I asked him how far back the records went. He didn't know. He didn't care. He felt she was possibly a threat because of her age, a threat to herself or her family. That's what the implication was. He was concerned that never having bought a gun before, why would she want one now, at 81?"
Lawson served in the State Bureau of Identification as a lieutenant, which includes the firearms approval section and other specialty units. He knew the law. Nefosky's concern about Vansickle's age and sex, he said, should never have come into play.
Lawson also knew the gun records should have been destroyed.
MacLeish would not allow Nefosky to be interviewed.
In an interview with The News Journal, MacLeish claimed all paper firearms records are destroyed every 60 days.
The electronic records, however, are another story.
"Our review of our electronic records indicated we had a glitch in the system, back to August 2005," he said. "They have since been purged."
The electronic records never posed a threat, MacLeish said.
"The info was in an electronic file that no one did anything with," MacLeish said. "We've since purged that file in its entirety.
Enter the National Rifle Association.
Civil rights of gun buyer at risk
John Thompson is president of the Delaware State Sportsmen's Association, the local affiliate of the NRA.
Several people told him of Nefosky's delay, and expressed their outrage about the list of gun owners maintained by the Delaware State Police.
Thompson, an attorney, had worked with state lawmakers in the early 1990s to craft the state's background-check law.
Legally, he said, Vansickle's reasons for wanting a firearm are moot, and he knew the lists were a problem.
"This suggests two violations: one is denial without cause, and the other is keeping records of gun purchases," Thompson said. "Under statute, the Delaware State Police are required to destroy any purchase records that involve approvals. Now they're maintaining lists of gun owners, which we think is inappropriate. We did not create this system to allow this to happen."
Vansickle's civil rights were violated, he said.
"There is nothing in the Second Amendment or the Delaware Constitution that says the right to own firearms is limited to people of a certain age," Thompson said. "We don't have any problem with age restrictions regarding children, but we don't think someone ought to arbitrarily decide people are too old to own guns."
Retired Dover police captain John Sigler is president of the National Rifle Association, a position once held by legendary actor Charlton Heston.
"I was literally shocked that such an event would occur in the state of Delaware," he said. "I am very, very troubled that an individual -- based on her age -- was denied the ability to defend herself."
Both Sigler and Thompson pointed to the recent Supreme Court decision District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the court found that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess firearms for personal use, such as self-defense.
While Sigler expressed "the highest respect" for the Delaware State Police and MacLeish, he found it intolerable that the agency "has been keeping records they're not supposed to have, for at least seven years."
"That means that for seven years that office has been violating Delaware state law and thumbing their nose at the state Legislature," he said. "I certainly hope it's not true, but it appears that it is."
Sigler brought the goings-on in his home state to the attention of Bob Dowlut, NRA general counsel.
In a letter to MacLeish sent Aug. 28, Dowlut and the NRA requested two separate investigations: one to focus on Nefosky's denial, "and all other transactions of similar scope and nature." According to the letter, the second investigation should focus on who's responsible for keeping lists of gun owners in the state.
"NRA respectfully requests to be notified about all actions taken to correct this situation," Dowlut wrote. "At this time, there are a number of people urging the filing of a lawsuit to remedy this matter, however, taking of corrective steps immediately would be preferable to litigation for all concerned."
MacLeish said two internal investigations "have been initiated by myself, by the division."
Dowlut copied his letter to Gov. Ruth Ann Minner, who declined to comment for this story.
Elderly woman's husband speaks out
Vansickle's husband, who has legally purchased several weapons over the past several years, spoke on her behalf about the delay.
"Apparently, they thought she might shoot herself with it," said J.R. Vansickle, 83. "She has a clean record. There was no reason to turn her down. I lost both legs through diabetes. I'm in a wheelchair. We're an elderly couple. She wanted the gun for self-defense in our home."
The state police firearms unit was established as a result of the Brady Law, which took effect in 1994.
Nefosky supervises four criminal-history employees, who take calls from gun dealers around the state, and approve or deny the purchases based on the buyer's criminal history.
According to state police, during 2006 and 2007, the unit processed 21,304 transactions, which have resulted in 711 denials.
Dowlet told the newspaper that for police departments, the types of problems the Vansickle case exposed are extremely rare.
"Most police departments, when they put someone in charge of a unit like that, they need to be completely familiar with the law," he said. "There's an anomaly here, someone in the Delaware State police who wasn't following the law. Most police departments -- especially in our litigious society -- if that's what the statute says, that's how they enforce it."
Contact investigative reporter Lee Williams at 324-2362 or lwilliams@delawareonline.com.
You might also want to read this
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1514316&postcount=5

Librarian
04-08-2009, 1:54 PM
Just to clarify a few terms.

Feel free to correct me if any of the below is incorrect.

Most of the questions below are in reference to long guns, but I assume some answers may differ if applied to handguns or other firearms.

So the Federal 4473 is NOT a DROS?

Is a DROS only a CA PC term? Or is DROS defined in Title 18? Any purchase of a firearm in the US requires a 4473, since it's at the federal level, right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the DROS is usually the form printed on white paper when a dealer goes into the back room. I assume a dealer slides your CA ID, or CDL/MID and the terminal prints the DROS application or form......

The dealer holds onto a copy of the DROS and the 4473?

Usually a dealer(All the ones I have visited) not only requires you to fill out a 4473, but a proprietary form.
For instance, Big 5 has another form in addition to the 4473 which has places to record the make model etc of the gun you just bought. Has the Big 5 logo on it..etc.

Which form is that? A DROS? Just a form for internal records?

-lorax

DROS - Dealer's Record Of Sale - is strictly California.

Only purchases that go through a dealer - and go through his acquisitions and dispositions records, his 'bound book', need a 4473. There are still many firearms transfers which need not go through a FFL dealer. Not so many in California, of course - intrafamilial transfer, inheritance, long guns 50+ years old - but in other states.

Dealer does keep a copy of DROS and of 4473. Your mag-stripe card puts the name and address info and the DL/ID number in, but make/model etc are entered through the keyboard, usually (someone probably has a bar code scanner to do this, somewhere, but I haven't seen it).

Dunno about the Big-5 logo thing; everywhere I've bought a gun it's been 4473 "yellow form" and DROS data entry, with a white paper print out.

dustoff31
04-08-2009, 3:39 PM
You mean after 15 days, there will not be any record of me ever purchasing a long gun other than the 4473 form that's kept at the dealer?

No. In addition to DROS and the 4473, all NICS (background check) request and denial information is kept in an audit log at the FBI. Remember, CA DOJ is simply the state POC for requesting a NICS check. They go to the FBI just like all the other states.

Obviously this would be the case in a NICS check wasn't conducted.