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View Full Version : need specifics of rebuild legiality.


spyderco monkey
04-06-2009, 10:37 AM
So I finally managed to track someone down who has mags the 5-7, and tried to convince them to do the rebuild kit option for California, but they keep insisting its illegal. Does anyone here have a link regarding specific California law/ other credible document that I could use to show them its legal?

Your help would be greatly appreciated on this one.

Thanks!
Mark

Crazed_SS
04-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Wasnt the Five-Seven introduced after 2000?

What would be the point of getting Five-Seven "rebuild kits" since (unless you're a LEO or something) there's no way you could have legally owned a hi-cap five-seven mag anyway.

DDT
04-06-2009, 10:48 AM
Wasnt the Five-Seven introduced after 2000?

What would be the point of getting Five-Seven "rebuild kits" since (unless you're a LEO or something) there's no way you could have legally owned a hi-cap five-seven mag anyway.

You could build the mags and then wait 3 years before using them. Thus running the statute of limitations out. This is what Gene has posted in the past.

Matt C
04-06-2009, 10:48 AM
The only thing I can think would be you imported them after the ban, but the statute of limitations on the crime has passed. You could also have "found" the mags of course.

If caught with 20 round 5x7 mags you can probably expect to be charged with a felony, and trying to order parts kits from some guy online sounds like an excellent way to get caught.

This should fall under "illegal and totally not worth it".

383green
04-06-2009, 10:58 AM
Asking for advice on a public forum regarding how to order the parts at the beginning of the three year window in which you have one less defense against the felony charge(s) which may result if anybody determines that you may have illegally manufactured magazines with those parts, doesn't seem like a sound strategy to me.

My suggestion is to delete the thread, have a little patience, and stick with legal stuff until we manage to get the magazine and/or gun bans shot down in court. It seems like that day might come before the three year statute of limitations for the proposed felony is even up.

kermit315
04-06-2009, 12:09 PM
unless they are going to be modified into 10 rounders permanently, I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole.

but thats just me.

bigcalidave
04-06-2009, 12:31 PM
I'm pretty sure this battle has not been fought yet! Anyone recall a felony arrest for high caps? Remember the law still doesn't say you personally can't purchase or own high caps, so what are they really gonna prosecute you for? The law punishes the seller, who in their best knowledge is selling you replacement parts for your previously owned and still legal high caps.

ke6guj
04-06-2009, 12:35 PM
You could build the mags and then wait 3 years before using them. Thus running the statute of limitations out. This is what Gene has posted in the past.

AFAIK, Gene has never posted that you could illegally build a mag and then wait 3 years before using them.

DDT
04-06-2009, 1:11 PM
AFAIK, Gene has never posted that you could illegally build a mag and then wait 3 years before using them.

You are correct. I re-read his statements and will quote the most pertinent below to clarify exactly what he said and let the OP "read between the lines."

First, I'm not disagreeing with you per se. I'm being very precise. Importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines after 1/1/2000 is illegal. However, if one were to have done that on 1/2/2000 and still posses them, one is outside of the statute of limitations for the crime of importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines.

Strictly speaking, it is "illegal." Practically speaking, you can not be prosecuted.

I hope you can read between the lines to see why I'm being precise. Understand that I'm not at all bothered by explaining this set of issues in detail.

-Gene

Matt C
04-06-2009, 1:41 PM
I'm pretty sure this battle has not been fought yet! Anyone recall a felony arrest for high caps? Remember the law still doesn't say you personally can't purchase or own high caps, so what are they really gonna prosecute you for? The law punishes the seller, who in their best knowledge is selling you replacement parts for your previously owned and still legal high caps.

There are currently and have been cases prosecuted, the persons prosecuted that I know of are well represented and thus know enough to not talk about it on the internet.

DDT
04-06-2009, 1:49 PM
There are currently and have been cases prosecuted, the persons prosecuted that I know of are well represented and thus know enough to not talk about it on the internet.

Is Gene aware of this prosecution?

Matt C
04-06-2009, 1:58 PM
Is Gene aware of this prosecution?

I don't know.

adamsreeftank
04-06-2009, 3:38 PM
Keeping various parts that could be used to assemble a high cap mag when out of state seems legal as long as the magazine is then left out of state or broken down into parts before re-entering california.

Whether or not you could be prosecuted for something, I believe that it is the policy of this website that advocating illegal activity is against the rules and will get you banned.

rbetts
04-06-2009, 4:12 PM
As an FFL01, with a permit to purchase and import these mags, what would be the problem in making them, once they are shipped, into 10 rounders?

Matt C
04-06-2009, 4:27 PM
As an FFL01, with a permit to purchase and import these mags, what would be the problem in making them, once they are shipped, into 10 rounders?

Other than from an engineering standpoint none, but what would be the point?

DarkHorse
04-06-2009, 5:14 PM
Looking a Midway, the $$$ for a 10-rounder is the same as a 20-rounder, and the 10's are even in stock.

No good will come of this.

spyderco monkey
04-06-2009, 6:52 PM
Wow, everyone seems so against this one! I was not planning on building them or violating any law; I was under the impression that if the magazine remained dissasembled, it was koher, and could be used when visiting out of state ranges, and then disasemebled again befre returning home. Is that not the case? Or is a dissamsembled mag, sitting in a box far way from the gun itself, still a no-no?

DarkHorse
04-06-2009, 7:19 PM
The problem arises because the gun was never manufactured prior to the magazine-ban, and it is the only handgun to use said magazines.
If you were found in possession of these "rebuild kits," and charged w/importation-yadda-yadaa-yadda, what would your defense be? From what I understand, the reason we can order rebuild kits is so we can repair legally owned pre-ban mags. If there is no possible way to have these mags legally, there would be no justification to have repair kits for said mags.

I'm not against the idea per se, but I see it as too much of a risk, which is why I looked up prices and availability (at 1 online retailer. Very detailed.).

Will you be visiting the same state when you go shooting? Maybe you could get a safe-deposit box in that area, or have a friend watch over your mags for you.

I wish I could give you the specific legal info you wanted, because then I'd be rich.

Good luck.

spyderco monkey
04-06-2009, 10:23 PM
Hmmm, that's lame, but logical. Not worth it then, will wait till I move.

Thanks

domokun
04-06-2009, 11:43 PM
The problem arises because the gun was never manufactured prior to the magazine-ban, and it is the only handgun to use said magazines.
If you were found in possession of these "rebuild kits," and charged w/importation-yadda-yadaa-yadda, what would your defense be? From what I understand, the reason we can order rebuild kits is so we can repair legally owned pre-ban mags. If there is no possible way to have these mags legally, there would be no justification to have repair kits for said mags.

I'm not against the idea per se, but I see it as too much of a risk, which is why I looked up prices and availability (at 1 online retailer. Very detailed.).

Will you be visiting the same state when you go shooting? Maybe you could get a safe-deposit box in that area, or have a friend watch over your mags for you.

I wish I could give you the specific legal info you wanted, because then I'd be rich.

Good luck.

Hmmm, that's lame, but logical. Not worth it then, will wait till I move.

Thanks


Please see this thread about Large-Capacity magazines in CA.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709

hoffmang
04-07-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm aware of one prosecution. That prosecution is over and it was no damage but an annoyance to the gun owner. I am unaware of any successful magazine prosecution that wasn't a tack on to much larger charges.

-Gene

Matt C
04-09-2009, 9:35 PM
I'm aware of one prosecution. That prosecution is over and it was no damage but an annoyance to the gun owner. I am unaware of any successful magazine prosecution that wasn't a tack on to much larger charges.

-Gene

While it's true that the cases involving large-capacity mags I'm aware of involved other gun charges (which stands to reason, they are probably going to have some other questionable gun stuff, if not outright illegal gun stuff) as well, a felony 12020 charge is serious in its own right.

In any case, the lack of a large number of persons charged with the crime is a poor reason to commit a felony.