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View Full Version : Handgun Storage at a Friend's Residence


scudco
04-05-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm interested in buying my first handgun (S&W 617 22LR 10rd) but have been running into issues with roommates who refuse to learn about firearm safety. One option I think I may have would be to keep the gun at a friend's house, but I wasn't sure what the laws were around doing something like this.

One area of concern I have is if the police were to search my friend's house for some non-firearm related reason and found the handgun that they would be able to arrest them for possession of a handgun. This is all conjecture. I simply want to make sure I'm not putting my friend or myself in harm's way by doing something like this.

Can someone help answer these questions or help me understand the legal complexities involved in storing a firearm somewhere other than one's residence?

berto
04-05-2009, 1:45 PM
Why not store it locked in a pistol vault in your room? Your roommates wouldn't have access. If for some reason that isn't good enough you should consider a new living situation.

I believe your friend would need an HSC to borrow your gun and could borrow your gun for a maximum of 30 days. No go if your friend is prohibited.

SVT_Fox
04-05-2009, 2:00 PM
your room mates are ftl

scudco
04-05-2009, 2:37 PM
Why not store it locked in a pistol vault in your room? Your roommates wouldn't have access. If for some reason that isn't good enough you should consider a new living situation.

I believe your friend would need an HSC to borrow your gun and could borrow your gun for a maximum of 30 days. No go if your friend is prohibited.

Essentially, this is what I should have done and not asked for their consent in the first place. I told one of them that I would keep the gun in the house but not keep any ammunition around. I was hoping my desire to learn to shoot and handle a firearm safely while also respecting his uneasiness with guns by keeping no ammunition on hand would make him feel more comfortable. I was mistaken in thinking that he would be reasonable and accept that agreement, but explaining responsible gun ownership to a statist is nearly impossible.

My friend will be getting an HSC soon so maybe the borrowing situation would work well.

Thanks for your help.

scudco
04-05-2009, 2:43 PM
your room mates are ftl

Politically speaking, they are indeed FAIL. I remember trying to explain to them what a voluntaryist was when they were asking why I wasn't going with them to vote... They are statists through and through, unfortunately.

Other than their elephantine cognitive dissonance, they are great folks.

TheBundo
04-05-2009, 2:59 PM
I don't think your friend needs to have an HSC for you to store it there. Sounds FUDey to me.

DDT
04-05-2009, 3:02 PM
I'm with berto. Just mount a single pistol gun vault next to or under your bed. They'll never need to know it's there. Or you could buy a small safe and they never need to know what you are storing in it.

rabagley
04-05-2009, 3:03 PM
Sign a lease with your friend for rental of his storage space and pay him some nominal fee (a six of beer or a pair of tickets to a game are perfectly valid). Otherwise, he can only keep your gun for 30 days without it becoming a transfer, which as you already know, is a problem in California.

Once you've got a lease to some corner of his gun safe/closet/garage, that becomes your corner of his gun safe/closet/garage and he's good to go. If anyone challenges his possession of the gun, he'll have a copy of the lease for storage space and his butt is covered.

scudco
04-05-2009, 3:13 PM
I don't think your friend needs to have an HSC for you to store it there. Sounds FUDey to me.

I looked into it and it is, as always, a little overcomplicated.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs.php#a16

# Is a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) required when a handgun is being loaned?

It depends on the specific circumstances. Generally, a person being loaned a handgun must have a current Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC). However, an HSC is not required when the loan does not exceed three days in duration and the person loaning the handgun is at all times within the presence of the person being loaned the handgun.

scudco
04-05-2009, 3:15 PM
Sign a lease with your friend for rental of his storage space and pay him some nominal fee (a six of beer or a pair of tickets to a game are perfectly valid). Otherwise, he can only keep your gun for 30 days without it becoming a transfer, which as you already know, is a problem in California.

Once you've got a lease to some corner of his gun safe/closet/garage, that becomes your corner of his gun safe/closet/garage and he's good to go. If anyone challenges his possession of the gun, he'll have a copy of the lease for storage space and his butt is covered.

This sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the help.

scudco
04-05-2009, 3:20 PM
I'm with berto. Just mount a single pistol gun vault next to or under your bed. They'll never need to know it's there. Or you could buy a small safe and they never need to know what you are storing in it.

I agree with this advice, but I feel it would be dishonest to my roommates. Despite their willful ignorance I would be lying to them since I asked for their consent in the first place.

The lesson I've learned is simply not to ask permission and treat them like children since they refuse to be adults.

TheBundo
04-05-2009, 3:22 PM
I guess I don't see storing and loaning as the same thing. You could/should have it in a locked case when you store it (children issues at his house ever, etc.), without him having the combo/key, versus loaning, in which case he'd have to have access

CA_Libertarian
04-05-2009, 3:58 PM
Why not store it locked in a pistol vault in your room? Your roommates wouldn't have access. If for some reason that isn't good enough you should consider a new living situation.

I believe your friend would need an HSC to borrow your gun and could borrow your gun for a maximum of 30 days. No go if your friend is prohibited.

+1

I realize you can't easily change living arrangements, but it sounds like you should be make this a priority. As berto suggests, simply lock it up if you have to leave it unattended. Most new pistols come with lockable secure containers, or you could buy one for as little as $20. A lockable secure container is something every handgun owner should have, as it is pretty much the only legal way to transport firearms in urban settings (mostly due to "school zones"). If you don't think a locked container will prevent your roommates from getting to your firearm, then you should kick them out or move out of there ASAP.

You could lend it to a friend for up to 30 days. There is no limit on the number of times you could lend the gun to him, as long as the friend can legally possess a firearm, and has a current Handgun Safety Cert.

tactic101
04-05-2009, 8:26 PM
If you already have the gun, consider getting a DAC Industries metal lock box (looks like a safe, small and easy to hide) and bolt it into your closet or other part of your abode until you can move. You can store your ammunition there as well. I would not loan or store the firearm elsewhere out of your control if at all possible and I would keep it locked up at all times. That's just my preference. I'd avoid advertising to your roommates or neighbors that you have a firearm. I would never leave it around in a locked plastic case that your roommates could just throw away.

Otherwise I would say just wait on your gun purchase until your living situation improves. Good luck.

bigstick61
04-05-2009, 9:30 PM
When it came to my situation, I just did it anyways. If they want to pay for my room, then I am fine with them telling me stuff. Until then, they can deal with it or leave. Fortunately, they were not all anti-gun, and when another bought a handgun, that kinda settled the matter.

pullnshoot25
04-05-2009, 11:06 PM
+1

I realize you can't easily change living arrangements, but it sounds like you should be make this a priority. As berto suggests, simply lock it up if you have to leave it unattended. Most new pistols come with lockable secure containers, or you could buy one for as little as $20. A lockable secure container is something every handgun owner should have, as it is pretty much the only legal way to transport firearms in urban settings (mostly due to "school zones"). If you don't think a locked container will prevent your roommates from getting to your firearm, then you should kick them out or move out of there ASAP.

You could lend it to a friend for up to 30 days. There is no limit on the number of times you could lend the gun to him, as long as the friend can legally possess a firearm, and has a current Handgun Safety Cert.

If I am not mistaken, the limit is 6x per year.

big al
04-05-2009, 11:33 PM
what if the person does'nt have a HSC but , doesnt have access to the handgun being in a locked case? is it still legal to store it in his residence?

MindBuilder
04-06-2009, 1:42 AM
Maybe you should just transfer the gun to your friend. I think the law is that you can't loan a handgun for more than 30 days without going through an FFL. So go to the FFL and transfer it to him as a loan instead of a change of ownership. You still own it but it's registered to his possession. You may be able to register it to both of you. I don't know if this is possible but I suspect it is.

Your friend will definitely need an HSC to do the transfer. But the HSC test is considered trivial by many people.

The idea of leasing storage space is a great idea but sounds a little risky. I'd at least make sure it was locked in a safe at his place. You may also want to put your name on the safe so it's clear it's yours and not his if there is a search or something. I'm guessing that if it's locked up so he doesn't have access, then it is or at least ought to be, legitimate. Unfortunately there might be regulations regarding renting storage space. There might be restrictions on renting in areas zoned residential rather than commercial for example.

I'm not a lawyer and I could easily be wrong about all this. Don't take this as legal advice, particularly because I don't know the law very well and I don't know all the important details of your situation.

Flopper
04-06-2009, 10:42 AM
it's understandable that you want to be honest with your roommate, but if i were you i'd lock it up in your room out of plain sight.

i don't know the exact situation, but even if you're just renting a room, your room is "your castle." don't let this joke of a roommate tell you what to do. i'm willing to bet that with friends like these, they probably do a few things you don't agree with. do you think they're concerned with your thoughts about those actions?

bigstick61
04-06-2009, 3:12 PM
Exactly, and that's what I acted upon. They're not paying for my room.