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View Full Version : What is the "default" CCW policy for an employee?


unusedusername
04-04-2009, 7:33 PM
Hello,

I've been following the Locked container concealed carry thread and I've come up with a mildly related question that current CCW holders and other people more knowledgeable might know...

Lets assume someone is an employee of a business (office) that does not have any policy on CCW. By "no policy" I mean that the business itself does not care if people carry, but will not issue a policy saying it is OK.

What are the laws regarding CCW/locked container concealed carry in this situation?

Are there any cases that have come up with a "default" policy when the business does not want to give one?

dustoff31
04-04-2009, 8:02 PM
In virtually all cases an employer will default to a position that minimizes their liability and responsibility.

In other words, without expesss permission, you won't find out how they really feel until something goes sideways, when they will most likely say "we didn't authorize that."

sfwdiy
04-04-2009, 9:32 PM
You're probably rolling the dice on that one. If your employer hasn't specifically given you the go-ahead, you'd probably get canned if they find you at work with a firearm. Most businesses practice the "CYA" policy above all else.

ETA: More specifically, there are no laws in regard to this. Your company can fire you for it if they feel like it.

--B

djbooya
04-04-2009, 9:36 PM
You're probably rolling the dice on that one. If your employer hasn't specifically given you the go-ahead, you'd probably get canned if they find you at work with a firearm. Most businesses practice the "CYA" policy above all else.

ETA: More specifically, there are no laws in regard to this. Your company can fire you for it if they feel like it.

--B

While this may be true, if they didn't Cover Their A with a policy you have grounds to sue for wrongful termination. This is why Employee Handbooks exist. If there is no express written policy forbidding something that is otherwise legal you can't be fired for it. They can give you a warning and fire you for some other reason, but not because you were legally carrying a firearm. I've dealt with employee terminations before (not related to firearms) and have developed policies where our HR / Legal was very clear that we include some language that would be a catch-all in the event something were to go wrong. So unless some type of language like that exists in some document that you have signed as "read" you would have grounds for a wrongful termination law suit. Now whether you win or not, I can't say, but you'd have a case at least.

DDT
04-05-2009, 1:19 AM
I mean that the business itself does not care if people carry, but will not issue a policy saying it is OK.

It sounds as if you asked and they said, "I don't have a problem with it but I won't put that in writing." Is my interpretation correct? If so, you should actually be safe from being fired merely by the discovery of your weapon since you asked and were told they "don't care." However; if whoever finds out makes a real stink they may try to fire you anyway and you would have to fight it out in court. But remember, if it is concealed no one should ever find out about it. Just remember that someone who seems all OK with it might not have the same warm fuzzy feeling if they find out you are REALLY doing it. In other words DON'T TELL ANYONE if you decide to carry.

unusedusername
04-05-2009, 1:57 AM
It sounds as if you asked and they said, "I don't have a problem with it but I won't put that in writing." Is my interpretation correct? If so, you should actually be safe from being fired merely by the discovery of your weapon since you asked and were told they "don't care." However; if whoever finds out makes a real stink they may try to fire you anyway and you would have to fight it out in court. But remember, if it is concealed no one should ever find out about it. Just remember that someone who seems all OK with it might not have the same warm fuzzy feeling if they find out you are REALLY doing it. In other words DON'T TELL ANYONE if you decide to carry.

Exactly. My immediate supervisor could not care less if I carry, as long as it is legal.

Cooperate HR won't make a policy one way or the other. I'm not all that worried about getting noticed as I would not run my mouth.

I was mostly checking to see if there is some evil law I don't know about, and it sounds like there isn't :thumbsup:

DDT
04-05-2009, 8:34 AM
I was mostly checking to see if there is some evil law I don't know about

There are no evil laws, only lawmakers

Piper
04-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Hello,

I've been following the Locked container concealed carry thread and I've come up with a mildly related question that current CCW holders and other people more knowledgeable might know...

Lets assume someone is an employee of a business (office) that does not have any policy on CCW. By "no policy" I mean that the business itself does not care if people carry, but will not issue a policy saying it is OK.

What are the laws regarding CCW/locked container concealed carry in this situation?

Are there any cases that have come up with a "default" policy when the business does not want to give one?

Here's what you can be absolutely sure of. If you are in a SHTF situation and you have a gun at work, and it becomes necessary to use said firearm to defend fellow employees and the boss from being the next residents of the local cemetary, and you neutralize the threat, in all likelyhood you will come out of this smelling like a rose. However, if said incident turns out bad for even one employee and they can rationalize in their pea sized brain that things would have been better if you hadn't opposed said dirtbag, your @$$ is grass and some attorney will try and be the lawn mower.

Company policies aren't designed to tell employees how to act, they are designed to CYA the company. If you go by the SOP and stuff still goes to hell real quick, for the sake of protecting the company, you WILL be sacrificed. It's just that simple.