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View Full Version : Its Over Now, 3 Officers Deadthis Morning From Legal AK


journeyman
04-04-2009, 9:16 AM
Police official: 3 officers killed in Pa. shooting
April 4th, 2009 @ 10:06am
By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI
Associated Press Writer


PITTSBURGH (AP) - A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Three officers were killed, said a police official at the scene who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Police spokeswoman Diane Richard would only say that at least five officers were wounded, but wouldn't give any other details.

The man who fired at the officers was arrested after a several-hour standoff. One witness reported hearing hundreds of shots.

The shootings occurred just two weeks after four police officers March 21 in Oakland, Calif., in the deadliest day for U.S. law enforcement since Sept. 11, 2001.

Police did not immediately release the gunman's identity, but his friends at the scene described him as a young man who thought the Obama administration would ban guns.

One friend, Edward Perkovic, said the gunman feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon." Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said he feared that President Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."

Perkovic, a 22-year-old who said he was the gunman's best friend, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."

Perkovic said: "I heard gunshots and he hung up. ... He sounded like he was in pain, like he got shot."

Vire, 23, said the gunman once had an Internet talk show but that it wasn't successful. Vire said his friend had an AK-47 rifle and several powerful handguns, including a .357 Magnum.

The officers were called to the home in the Stanton Heights neighborhood at about 7 a.m., Richard said.

Tom Moffitt, 51, a city firefighter who lives two blocks away, said he heard about the shooting on his scanner and came to the scene, where he heard "hundreds, just hundreds of shots. And not just once _ several times."

Rob Gift, 45, who lives a block away, said he heard rapid gunfire as he was letting his dog out.

He said the neighborhood of well-kept single-family houses and manicured lawns is home to many police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other city workers.

"It's just a very quiet neighborhood," Gift said.

Vtec44
04-04-2009, 9:22 AM
link to the original article?

grahlaika
04-04-2009, 9:24 AM
This is a link to the same story on MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30043893/

If these things keep happening (and I fear they will), the administration and Congress will 'need to do something about it' regardless of the facts, regardless of statistics. We live by mob rule in this country now - people voting out of emotion and not out of reasoned analysis - and the mob will want to take drastic action to try and stop these events from happening.

PatriotnMore
04-04-2009, 9:31 AM
If the administration thinks pushing a gun ban will stop this, I think they would sorely be mis-calculating, and this will just be the beginning of this mindset and outcome.

Can'thavenuthingood
04-04-2009, 9:39 AM
I suspect we'll be seeing more of this as folks are layed off, homes go into default and the President continues his um, ah, um, pause for effect, um, ah.

Another thing has been bugging me.
In most if not all of these story's the guns are described as a 'high powered rifle' or a 'powerful' handgun.

Is there a definition of these terms somewhere I missed? What is the dividing line in calibers or rifle model between low, medium and high powered?

Vick

Phil3
04-04-2009, 9:40 AM
According to the news, "A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns". Just great.

- Phil

Greg-Dawg
04-04-2009, 9:40 AM
Why is this posted here? It's another sad tragedy that has nothing to do with 2nd, politics or the law.

If it did, it'd be under a "Crime against the innocent" segment, which I don't see here.

Or is this: "What gun did the killer use to kill the 3 cops?" BS.

B Strong
04-04-2009, 9:43 AM
Bad economic times and uncertainty bring out the nuts, that's for sure.

I fear that we've not seen the end of these.

Gator Monroe
04-04-2009, 9:45 AM
The end of summer will have lots to do with politics & the law ...:(

OC_Gunman
04-04-2009, 9:52 AM
Why is this posted here? It's another sad tragedy that has nothing to do with 2nd, politics or the law.

If it did, it'd be under a "Crime against the innocent" segment, which I don't see here.

Or is this: "What gun did the killer use to kill the 3 cops?" BS.

This story belongs no other place but here. These stories are precursors to gun bans. Very simple, borne out time and again for deacades now. These stories are a direct call to arms, rhetorically speaking.

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 10:06 AM
Just heard on Fixed news that 3 Police were killed, i missed the location. They said the guy used an AK and killed them because "He Thought Obama Was Going To Ban Guns" I say WE ARE SCREWED. call me crazy (which you will), but i'm starting to really think this stuff is NOT just happening out of no where.

(Don't take me too literally, i'm concerned not in a state of panic)

yellowfin
04-04-2009, 10:17 AM
This seems just too precisely worded, doesn't it? It's a stringing together of clichés that plays right into the common themes just as they want the story to happen, almost as if fabricated.

Greg-Dawg
04-04-2009, 10:17 AM
Intersesting: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512560,00.html

One friend, Edward Perkovic, said the gunman feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon." Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said he feared that President Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."

hawk1
04-04-2009, 10:25 AM
This seems just too precisely worded, doesn't it? It's a stringing together of clichés that plays right into the common themes just as they want the story to happen, almost as if fabricated.

Yep, they're trying their hardest. Whoever they are...

hawk1
04-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Get a grip on yourself man. No need to sensationalize this. :rolleyes:

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Get a grip on yourself man. No need to sensationalize this. :rolleyes:

lol HA

Vtec44
04-04-2009, 10:29 AM
Just heard on Fixed news that 3 Police were killed, i missed the location. They said the guy used an AK and killed them because "He Thought Obama Was Going To Ban Guns" I say where.WE ARE SCREWED. call me crazy (which you will), but i'm starting to really think this stuff is NOT just happening out of no where.

I hope you don't own an AK :eek:

yellowfin
04-04-2009, 10:36 AM
This is fishy.

leitung
04-04-2009, 10:39 AM
Something is starting to stink, and it's not just the shooters. But thanks again to this a**hat who has hurt our cause more than help it. He pretty much sealed the deal now thanks to his actions.

I wouldn't put it out of my mind that the brady bunch is up to something..

gd-bh
04-04-2009, 10:45 AM
Come on now..who could believe so much in the anti gun "cause" that they'd go out and commit cold blooded murder to further it? The anti's are a vile, lying, self-deluded bunch, but this line of thinking doesn't compute to me. Will they use this to further their false beliefs? Certainly.

glennsche
04-04-2009, 10:46 AM
PITTSBURGH – A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy there ey?

leitung
04-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Not the only shooting recently, this is like #3 in the pennsylvania area..

updated 1:15 a.m. CT, Fri., April. 3, 2009
Levittown - Police in eastern Pennsylvania say officers have shot a man who fled from police in a car, struck a pole, and then pointed a rifle at officers who approached the overturned vehicle.

The shooting ocurred about midnight in the Allentown area 50 miles north of Philadelphia. Police say the officers approached the wrecked car, saw that the driver had a rifle and took cover.

Officials say when police approached the car again, the man raised the rifle and pointed it at them, and two officers fired at him.

The man was pronounced dead at the scene. His identity hasn't been released pending notification of relatives.

Police say the initial chase started when officers responded to reports of an accident in Fogelsville, eight miles west of Allentown. The fleeing car crashed in nearby Upper Macungie Township.

Information from: WFMZ-TV, http://www.wfmz.com

oldrifle
04-04-2009, 10:51 AM
There's really no reason for the whole bit about the guy fearing an Obama gun ban to be the headline and the theme of the article... especially when three cops were killed.

I don't know if anybody else here has noticed that while the TV version of Fox News has a bit (ha!) of a conservative bent, the online version definitely has more of a liberal bent. Anyway, something definitely smells fishy on this one.

garandguy10
04-04-2009, 10:52 AM
Something really does not pass the smell test with this one.....

sorensen440
04-04-2009, 10:53 AM
Its not over by a longshot but do expect a fight ahead

CALI-gula
04-04-2009, 10:54 AM
PITTSBURGH – A man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Friends said he had been upset recently about losing his job and that he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

... his friends identified him as Richard Poplawski, 23. They described him as a young man who thought the Obama administration would ban guns.

One friend, Edward Perkovic, said Poplawski feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon." Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said Poplawski feared that President Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."

Unneccesary additions in the story - but you can bet the media and Anti-2nd Amendment crowd will jump on this for the next week until they get a voice from Congress.

In any case, he did believe it to be true from multiple accounts. Ummmm... so did this moron, loser, parasite on the scrotum of a dog for a human being, think this was the answer to the ban that does not exist? :mad:

This whole fear of a ban is causing people to act irrational; it's only going to assist it helping bans become a reality, literally vet it and open the door, as opposed to before where it might not have taken any importance in this current economy and current world affairs mess.

But now? With this many LEO killed in such a short span with statements like the above? Economy and Iraq will take a temporary back-seat, just long enough to let the gun ban fascists in Congress to take the wheel, until extreme bans, worse than what might have been proposed, are installed by "emergency".

I can bet Michael Moore is already gearing up for "Glass Ceilings in Pittsburgh" otherwise known as "Bowling for Columbine II". :mad:

.

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 10:55 AM
Come on now..who could believe so much in the anti gun "cause" that they'd go out and commit cold blooded murder to further it? The anti's are a vile, lying, self-deluded bunch, but this line of thinking doesn't compute to me. Will they use this to further their false beliefs? Certainly.


There are ways to get people to do things for causes they don't support without them even knowing. There are 3 letters of the alphabet that come to mind when you start to get into that type of stuff. It is totally possible. Not saying that is what's going on here but something just isn't right.

CALI-gula
04-04-2009, 11:00 AM
There are ways to get people to do things for causes they don't support without them even knowing. There are 3 letters of the alphabet that come to mind when you start to get into that type of stuff. It is totally possible. Not saying that is what's going on here but something just isn't right.

I think that aluminum foil hat may have a high lead or mercurial content. :rolleyes: :TFH: :p

In any case, ever see the film "Arlington Road"?

.

CavTrooper
04-04-2009, 11:03 AM
Too much happening and too much sensationalism to be a coincidence. I do think that there are forces at work here providing ammo to the banners. Whether it be LEO, Bradys, VPC, etc, this stuff is not happening and being highly publicized on its own, it has help.

Call me a TFHatter if youd like, but I challenge you to prove me wrong.

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 11:04 AM
I think that aluminum foil hat may have a high lead or mercurial content. :rolleyes: :TFH: :p

In any case, ever see the film "Arlington Road"?

.

Hey there are important places and groups you can't get into with a deluxe tin foil hat!:TFH:

No never heard of that movie.

Suvorov
04-04-2009, 11:09 AM
Cal Gunners are usually more versed in history than the general public is, but for the sake of those who aren't or as a refresher I offer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

I'm not saying that the recent rash of shootings is some sort of conspiracy, but I am saying that it is not out of the realm of possibility and has occurred to great success in other countries. :TFH:

dfletcher
04-04-2009, 11:10 AM
There was a quick clip on Fox that showed a police Officer carrying out what I'm quite certain was a case of ammo on each shoulder.

Personally I'm not a conspiracy type - can't think of a single one that I sign on to - and I don't at all believe that's the case here. More like deadly or dastardly parallelism.

CALI-gula
04-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Hey there are important places and groups you can't get into with a deluxe tin foil hat!:TFH:

No never heard of that movie.

It's centers on the suggestion of how a group might be influential in framing someone; very conspiracy related, and prior to 9/11, but taking cues from the Oklahoma bombing and Freeman-like cults; unfortunately, Tim Robbins, extremist liberal and anti-2nd Amendment putz stars in it.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0137363/

"Michael Faraday is a recently widowed college history professor living alone with his ten-year-old son Grant in the suburbs of Washington, DC. The death of Michael's wife Leah, an FBI agent killed in the line of duty, continues to haunt both father and son. Michael and Grant are soon befriended by the Langs, a vivacious, All-American family new to the neighborhood. The parents, Oliver and Cheryl Lang, go out of their way to draw Michael into their lives. Soon, Grant and young Brody Lang become inseparable friends. The Faradays' long period of mourning seems finally to be over. As the two families become closer, Michael begins to have misgivings about the gregarious Oliver. After catching Oliver in a few insignificant lies, the more Michael learns about Oliver, the more his uneasiness grows. With Grant spending more and more time at the Langs, Michael decides to check into the background of his neighbors. What he discovers deepens the mystery, arousing suspicions that shake Michael to the core of his existence. The Langs are definitely not who they claim to be; but who are they? Why have they come to Washington, DC?"

.

SVT_Fox
04-04-2009, 11:12 AM
my tin hat is on snug now.... yesterday we were joking about it, but now one day later, the worst crime scenario possible goes down....hmmm

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Cal Gunners are usually more versed in history than the general public is, but for the sake of those who aren't or as a refresher I offer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

I'm not saying that the recent rash of shootings is some sort of conspiracy, but I am saying that it is not out of the realm of possibility and has occurred to great success in other countries. :TFH:

Thanks my point exactly. It goes on a lot more then people would like to accept. I'm sure you 've heard of Op Northwoods.

TRICKSTER
04-04-2009, 11:15 AM
Turn this around and blame the anti's. If this guy wasn't so afraid of losing his 2nd Amendment rights and "ban all guns" politics, he never would have gone off in the first place. It was the "take everyone's guns away" politicians and media that caused this. It's their fault these cops died.:thumbsup:

haodoken
04-04-2009, 11:16 AM
You're forgetting the important part though. THREE police officers were killed trying to stop another nut-job.

This week was rough. 12 people killed in NY, now 3 more LEOs

R.I.P. :patriot:

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 11:16 AM
It's centers on the suggestion of how a group might be influential in framing someone; very conspiracy related, and prior to 9/11, but taking cues from the Oklahoma bombing and Freeman-like cults; unfortunately, Tim Robbins, extremist liberal and anti-2nd Amendment putz stars in it.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0137363/

"Michael Faraday is a recently widowed college history professor living alone with his ten-year-old son Grant in the suburbs of Washington, DC. The death of Michael's wife Leah, an FBI agent killed in the line of duty, continues to haunt both father and son. Michael and Grant are soon befriended by the Langs, a vivacious, All-American family new to the neighborhood. The parents, Oliver and Cheryl Lang, go out of their way to draw Michael into their lives. Soon, Grant and young Brody Lang become inseparable friends. The Faradays' long period of mourning seems finally to be over. As the two families become closer, Michael begins to have misgivings about the gregarious Oliver. After catching Oliver in a few insignificant lies, the more Michael learns about Oliver, the more his uneasiness grows. With Grant spending more and more time at the Langs, Michael decides to check into the background of his neighbors. What he discovers deepens the mystery, arousing suspicions that shake Michael to the core of his existence. The Langs are definitely not who they claim to be; but who are they? Why have they come to Washington, DC?"

.

HHhhmm, might have seen this in mid play before and just known what it was. I'll have to wrap my body in foil, sit down, and watch it sometime.

JDoe
04-04-2009, 11:16 AM
...I say WE ARE SCREWED. call me crazy (which you will), but i'm starting to really think this stuff is NOT just happening out of no where.

We are not screwed but we are being served up a warning by the gun grabbers of their intentions.

28 people die each day in this country in firearm related homicides (on average) so there will be no shortage of stories like this for the MSM to sensationalize.

The homicide by firearms rate has been steadily decreasing even as more people are carrying CCW and more so called AWs are sold.

The numbers, the statistics do not support any kind of added restrictions on gun ownership. In fact the statistics support repealing restrictions.

Maybe we are up for a fight to retain our rights but so be it. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time. The difference is that this time we have statistics, the Internet and with more people being educated about firearms (thanks to the Internet) we also have more public support for our position than we have had in many decades.

grahlaika
04-04-2009, 11:19 AM
The numbers, the statistics do not support any kind of added restrictions on gun ownership. In fact the statistics support repealing restrictions.


When emotions are stirred up, and people vote their feelings and not their brain, statistics won't matter one iota. Mob rule doesn't care about facts.

nick
04-04-2009, 11:21 AM
We are not screwed but we are being served up a warning by the gun grabbers of their intentions.

28 people die each day in this country in firearm related homicides (on average) so there will be no shortage of stories like this for the MSM to sensationalize.

The homicide by firearms rate has been steadily decreasing even as more people are carrying CCW and more so called AWs are sold.

The numbers, the statistics do not support any kind of added restrictions on gun ownership. In fact the statistics support repealing restrictions.

Maybe we are up for a fight to retain our rights but so be it. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time. The difference is that this time we have statistics, the Internet and with more people being educated about firearms (thanks to the Internet) we also have more public support for our position than we have had in many decades.


While they have emotions, irrational fears, and no qualms about lying to go on. Not a composition that's easy to defeat.

grahlaika
04-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Turn this around and blame the anti's. If this guy wasn't so afraid of losing his 2nd Amendment rights and "ban all guns" politics, he never would have gone off in the first place.

If you're going there, then might as well blame the manufacturers as well. I have little doubt they're artificially creating shortages to drum up prices, thereby contributing to the gun-buying frenzy, and to people's feelings of impending doom. Just a thought...

bigstick61
04-04-2009, 11:45 AM
Nothing I have read indicates that this guy's fears of more gun control had anything to do with the shooting. The cause appears to be quite unrelated. Had something to do with a warrant and a domestic disturbance or something like that, I've heard both. What happened is that some of his friends talked about the guy's views of gun control, and the media is harping on it and using that to make him seem like a "gun loving lunatic" to quote one source. They are trying to twist it into that, emphasizing that part strongly, even though it seems to have had little to do with the actual incident. Plenty of us hold such views, but that does not make us lunatics, and the media is trying to portray him as a lunatic not because of the shooting, but because he has these views.

Tankhatch
04-04-2009, 11:52 AM
They shooter guy in NYC has been here 28 years (per Foxy),,,,, and he still could not speak English well,,, he was theyre to learn,,,, a big hint his upstairs was not real good.

Probably had seen a schrink too,,,, and lied about seeing one on the DROS. (Schrinks cannot post to the world, that theyre patients are nuts,,,, so the DROS check passes when its up to the psycho to admit it) LOOPHOLE

The same situation, was maybe true in this murdering spree.

CCWFacts
04-04-2009, 11:56 AM
It's what I referred to in my other thread about "suicide contagion". These are copycat killings, just like when we had that spree of school shootings. Media over-reporting of these incidents encourages them. Media should exercise responsibility here and give restrained coverage of these incidents.

jphaxx
04-04-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm curious if he was on psychotropic drugs? Some of these shootings involve these types of drugs which cause violent and/or psychotic breaks..

fullrearview
04-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Come on now..who could believe so much in the anti gun "cause" that they'd go out and commit cold blooded murder to further it? The anti's are a vile, lying, self-deluded bunch, but this line of thinking doesn't compute to me. Will they use this to further their false beliefs? Certainly.

remember the movie hot fuzz???

"the greater good!!"

who knows what these wack jobs will do to get their way.

AlexBreya
04-04-2009, 12:04 PM
They shooter guy in NYC has been here 28 years (per Foxy),,,,, and he still could not speak English well,,, he was theyre to learn,,,, a big hint his upstairs was not real good.

Probably had seen a schrink too,,,, and lied about seeing one on the DROS. (Schrinks cannot post to the world, that theyre patients are nuts,,,, so the DROS check passes when its up to the psycho to admit it) LOOPHOLE


This is so horribly written...

X-NewYawker
04-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Guy with an AK (or SKS) just had a HUGE gunbattle (audio sounds like like Iraq) with cops with several cops shot -- Cable NEws says his friend said he was "worried about a gun ban."

These are becoming daily occurrences! Why can't these suicidal asses just kill themselves! Why do hey have to kill our brother cops?!

With this incident, that's just about all that's needed. along with the other recent shootings, to put a nail in the 2nd Amendment.


Tragic that people have been so convinced that they have nothing to live for! Could it be the CONSTANT drum beat from the O administration that life is hopeless? That you can't better yourself? !

DDT
04-04-2009, 12:10 PM
Tragic that people have been so convinced by the O administration that life is hopeless!

If one squeezes oranges hard enough they will eventually get orange juice.

X-NewYawker
04-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Life is hard for ALL of us! We all don't go shooting up the place! Kids who were "picked on?' That's all of us! Guys upset they lost their job? Wives? Girlfriends?

What happened to personal responsibility and coping skills? Gone. Whole generations unable to cope with the cushy life we have here.

This is truly a the end of our civilization.

Cal-Irish
04-04-2009, 12:16 PM
Condolences to the families involved.

Calgun members going to blame the O-man for this?

SVT_Fox
04-04-2009, 12:19 PM
I suspect we'll be seeing more of this as folks are layed off, homes go into default and the President continues his um, ah, um, pause for effect, um, ah.



i CANT STAND this, hes such a puppet!!!!

how do people even consider him charming, such a FU*^King dork!!! LOL

also, why cant these people use gew88s!!!!

mvpatriot
04-04-2009, 12:21 PM
This is truly a the end of our civilization.

You = weak minded
Dissent = revolution

giarcpnw
04-04-2009, 12:23 PM
Sadly, this will probably result in something. The government can't just ignore this rash of AK47's being used to kill cops. As much as the Dems know gun control can hurt their re-election chances they also can't ignore the cries of city officials and police chiefs calling for a new AW ban. sigh.... Thanks Viallaraigosa and Bratton.

I predict the AW will be passed soon with the Repubs asking for some concessions resulting in essentially the LAST ban being pushed but guns like the Kel-Tec, Mini 14, m1 carbine etc and shotguns remaining off of it. I think they will target imported assault weapons like the AK. (better get one fast if you don"t already have one) but the AR might be some what safe since it's become a hunting rifle in the last 10 years. I'm sure mag restrictions will be pushed since these loonies are popping off hundreds of rounds in these shoot outs.

What we need is some one to say on national television, maybe Obama, essentially "Stop shooting people. If you need help or feel like giving up call such a such number or go to such and such place where there are gov assistance programs to help. Suicide and murder are NOT the answer"
Seriously, it sounds naive but I bet it will help. People clearly feel they have no other alternative then death and murder. Maybe simply reaching out a hand might prevent this stuff.

We certainly don't need quacks like this guy above saying he feared his guns being taken away. But i'm not sure how much of that is just the media sensationalizing it.

I have absolutely no credentials to back up my theory above. Just gut instinct.

Craig

dustoff31
04-04-2009, 12:28 PM
Calgun members going to blame the O-man for this?

If you read through the thread again, and pay attention this time, you won't find the need to ask that question.

SVT_Fox
04-04-2009, 12:31 PM
If you read through the thread again, and pay attention this time, you won't find the need to ask that question.

Condolences to the families involved.

Calgun members going to blame the O-man for this?


lets teach more government dependency and less responsibility..... HOPE AND CHANGE

MikeinnLA
04-04-2009, 12:33 PM
Calgun members going to blame the O-man for this?

Nope. I'm saving up my blame for the day when America isn't America anymore........and that day is coming.

Meanwhile, prayers to the families of the slain officers and may they RIP.

Mike

DigitalAmmunition
04-04-2009, 12:49 PM
It's as guaranteed as gravity: these events will be used to further hamper our 2nd Amendment. Prior to these events my theory held that we would have a good 4-6 months before the AW/gun ban comes, now I think it could be safe to say 1-3 months. :(

As for the conspiracy theories and tin foil hats, mine has been on since BHO didn't release his birth cert. back when he should have (like all other candidates did).


If the ban comes, and there is a high probability it will, how harsh will it be?

.454
04-04-2009, 12:51 PM
Mark my words: THE BAN IS COMING.

dustoff31
04-04-2009, 12:57 PM
lets teach more government dependency and less responsibility..... HOPE AND CHANGE

I hope that's not what you inferred from my post. I was saying that the general direction of the thread was in fact that those things ARE the problem. The fact that they serve the political aims of some people are not their fault, although certainly to their advantage.

hawk81
04-04-2009, 12:57 PM
How are we screwed, I am not going to turn in any of my guns. Just because someone misuses their weapon doesn't mean everyone suffers for it. We can't loose our god given rights, we can only give them up.

Just heard on Fixed news that 3 Police were killed, i missed the location. They said the guy used an AK and killed them because "He Thought Obama Was Going To Ban Guns" I say WE ARE SCREWED. call me crazy (which you will), but i'm starting to really think this stuff is NOT just happening out of no where.

(Don't take me too literally, i'm concerned not in a state of panic)

titus7
04-04-2009, 1:14 PM
Come one guys!! You cant tell me that all of the shooting and shootouts is a coincidence. Why is it that you havent heard about so much of this in a long time and now all of a sudden everyday you turn on the news the police are in a shootout with some 'evil black guns' involved. The press owns this nation!and now with the current administration the only thing they need to get guns banned is the ignorant support of those who think the news is gospel. The sad thing is that they will probably get it...

Joe
04-04-2009, 1:25 PM
great. more terrible news.

Hoop
04-04-2009, 1:30 PM
since these loonies are popping off hundreds of rounds in these shoot outs.


According to the media. Who knows in actuality.

But yes I think imported weapons + hicaps will be the first targets.

tactic101
04-04-2009, 1:38 PM
What we need is some one to say on national television, maybe Obama, essentially "Stop shooting people. If you need help or feel like giving up call such a such number or go to such and such place where there are gov assistance programs to help. Suicide and murder are NOT the answer"
Seriously, it sounds naive but I bet it will help. People clearly feel they have no other alternative then death and murder. Maybe simply reaching out a hand might prevent this stuff.

I like this idea. Something along the lines of the old "Just Say No" campaign.

Don't forget this rash of multiple murders has been international. Global economic woes are at work, not shadowy MKUltra types.

Musclemom
04-04-2009, 1:45 PM
It's an insanely senseless act. May the officers rest in peace, and my thoughts and prayers are certainly with their family, friends and fellow officers.

However, the media is sensationalizing it... yes, even FOX News sadly enough. They had a guy on the phone claiming "at least 600 rounds" must have been fired. Then, later in the news conference, the Chief of Police stated approximately 100 rounds total between the suspect and SWAT. Nonetheless, it's a huge blow to law abiding gun owners.

4D5auto
04-04-2009, 1:48 PM
Probably set up by Liberals for this to happen, so Princess Pelosi can now "re visit" the gun control issue! It's gonna happen!

tactic101
04-04-2009, 1:50 PM
all of a sudden everyday you turn on the news the police are in a shootout with some 'evil black guns' involved

It might seem so but I don't think it is quite like that.


VA Tech: handgun
Vietnamese Immigration guy: handgun, lost job
The German kid: handgun

Alabama: Police recruit dropout, fired from meat packing plant: AK? Had to have passed background checks; based on Police affiliation might not have been subject to an AWB anyway.
Oakland: Felon, SKS.
Pittsburg: AK?

U2BassAce
04-04-2009, 2:15 PM
Turn this around and blame the anti's. If this guy wasn't so afraid of losing his 2nd Amendment rights and "ban all guns" politics, he never would have gone off in the first place. It was the "take everyone's guns away" politicians and media that caused this. It's their fault these cops died.:thumbsup:

Word is the officers where there to take his guns because of a domestic issue. He was laying in wait with body armor. :eek:

gd-bh
04-04-2009, 2:22 PM
Word is the officers where there to take his guns because of a domestic issue. He was laying in wait with body armor. :eek:

And how many on this very board have declared that they would never surrender their guns? This is the result of someone who partly made that decision. If "they" were to make a gun confiscation law, would there be hundreds of thousands of this type of incident across the land? Personally, I doubt it, but the threat of that might be the only thing that keeps such a law from happening. If the good guys are smart, they will use this as an example of what might happen time and time again if "they" were to take that route.

RRangel
04-04-2009, 2:33 PM
Real nice title for this topic. This case is a tiny statistical invisible spec of our nation's crime.

Try a little harder not to be swayed by the obvious sensationalism.

Asphodel
04-04-2009, 2:35 PM
Someone.......I'm not sure exactly who, but someone......has to take a leadership position in developing a publicity campaign to counter the 'gun ban' response to these horrific crimes.

The message is simple......

----------------------------------------------------

These tragedies are not a gun or knife or bomb issue, they a mental health issue.

A mental health crisis has developed in this country.

We need to provide adequate mental health services to address the issue of mental illness, substance abuse, or any other cause of despondency leading to its most extreme level, that of a homicide, or multiple homicide, and suicide situation.

We need to understand and treat the various causes of this condition.

Too many individuals have committed extremely horrific crimes, for which, unlike crimes such as a kidnapping for ransom, or an armed bank robbery, no plausible profit motive or hope of escape with the proceeds of the crime, can exist.

This is surely diagnostic of some form of extreme mental illness.

What can be done to diagnose and adequately treat those who are 'at risk' for this level of mental illness, without infringing on the civil rights of those individuals?

--------------------------------------------------------

cheers

Carla

FordFreak
04-04-2009, 2:38 PM
What we need is some one to say on national television, maybe Obama, essentially "Stop shooting people. If you need help or feel like giving up call such a such number or go to such and such place where there are gov assistance programs to help. Suicide and murder are NOT the answer"
Seriously, it sounds naive but I bet it will help. People clearly feel they have no other alternative then death and murder. Maybe simply reaching out a hand might prevent this stuff.


"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Just what America needs right, more Gubment programs.

Sobriquet
04-04-2009, 2:40 PM
Cal Gunners are usually more versed in history than the general public is, but for the sake of those who aren't or as a refresher I offer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

I'm not saying that the recent rash of shootings is some sort of conspiracy, but I am saying that it is not out of the realm of possibility and has occurred to great success in other countries. :TFH:

Wow... Godwin's Law came true in under 2 pages of discussion. Impressive. ;)

Palindari
04-04-2009, 2:47 PM
Come on now..who could believe so much in the anti gun "cause" that they'd go out and commit cold blooded murder to further it? The anti's are a vile, lying, self-deluded bunch, but this line of thinking doesn't compute to me. Will they use this to further their false beliefs? Certainly.

Of course they will. this is ammo for their cause, unfortunately...

You gotta young, anti-Obama, paranoid gun lover cold bloodiedly killed three cops without provication.

This is how seatbelt, helmet, current gun laws all evolved. A sudden rash of stupid people doing idiotic crap that gets the populace all wound up over an issue.

taladeganite
04-04-2009, 2:57 PM
Msnbc headline news about the ny shooter who feared "obama gun ban", as reported by an aquaintence of the shooter, friggin disturbing that the media would throw this out there.. I feel villified.. Im pissed..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

I cant say it will be posted long as a headline tho..

2009_gunner
04-04-2009, 2:58 PM
This is so sad... watching these loonies destroy families and most probably create the public will to take away our rights.

How many of these have we had in the past two months? How many did we have in the previous 8 years??

taladeganite
04-04-2009, 2:59 PM
sorry for the dupe... =/

CALI-gula
04-04-2009, 2:59 PM
Msnbc headline news about the ny shooter who feared "obama gun ban", as reported by an aquaintence of the shooter, friggin disturbing that the media would throw this out there.. I feel villified.. Im pissed..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

I cant say it will be posted long as a headline tho..

Quad-DRUPE. X 4
:dupe:

U2BassAce
04-04-2009, 3:09 PM
I am watching the footage on Fox. They just showed an officer walking down the street with a case of ammo on each of his shoulders. Looked like Federal HSC 9mm.

MrSigmaDOT40
04-04-2009, 3:15 PM
Someone.......I'm not sure exactly who, but someone......has to take a leadership position in developing a publicity campaign to counter the 'gun ban' response to these horrific crimes.

The message is simple......

----------------------------------------------------

These tragedies are not a gun or knife or bomb issue, they a mental health issue.

A mental health crisis has developed in this country.

We need to provide adequate mental health services to address the issue of mental illness, substance abuse, or any other cause of despondency leading to its most extreme level, that of a homicide, or multiple homicide, and suicide situation.

We need to understand and treat the various causes of this condition.

Too many individuals have committed extremely horrific crimes, for which, unlike crimes such as a kidnapping for ransom, or an armed bank robbery, no plausible profit motive or hope of escape with the proceeds of the crime, can exist.

This is surely diagnostic of some form of extreme mental illness.

What can be done to diagnose and adequately treat those who are 'at risk' for this level of mental illness, without infringing on the civil rights of those individuals?

--------------------------------------------------------

cheers

Carla

+10

X-NewYawker
04-04-2009, 3:39 PM
Well, since we can't test everyone for Mental Health, we'll just collect ALL the guns -- then no one will ever be hurt again!
\And while we're at it we can re-name Terrorism "man made damage"

U2BassAce
04-04-2009, 4:08 PM
It's an insanely senseless act. May the officers rest in peace, and my thoughts and prayers are certainly with their family, friends and fellow officers.

However, the media is sensationalizing it... yes, even FOX News sadly enough. They had a guy on the phone claiming "at least 600 rounds" must have been fired. Then, later in the news conference, the Chief of Police stated approximately 100 rounds total between the suspect and SWAT. Nonetheless, it's a huge blow to law abiding gun owners.

They just showed a new video on FOX. There was more than a 100 rounds shot by a lot. :mad:

JDoe
04-04-2009, 4:21 PM
Word is the officers where there to take his guns because of a domestic issue. He was laying in wait with body armor. :eek:

Anyone else see something wrong with sending only two officers to take guns away from someone who has been deemed too dangerous to have guns?

:confused:

If there were a place for at least some SWAT like care and attention to detail this would be it.

Tradical
04-04-2009, 4:24 PM
The steady diet of gun violence Hollywood has been feeding society is coming back to haunt us. The only chance we have of keeping our gun rights is to join the NRA and stay active and committed in our support of the 2nd amendment.

U2BassAce
04-04-2009, 4:36 PM
Strange. Both the arshat in NY and in Pitt were wearing body armor. At this rate maybe the guys selling the armor at the gun shows will finally be right and it will be banned.

MontClaire
04-04-2009, 4:53 PM
It should be call to lift restrictions on gun possession. And a call to right to carry everywhere.

EZ G
04-04-2009, 5:40 PM
Why the hell would someone who feared being deprived of his guns translate that to killing police. It doesnt even make sense. I am sure that an idiot friend might offer up that bit of extra sensationalism but it has nothing to do with why the guy opened fire on police officers.

I am not surprised that the media lumps it in since it fits their rhetoric/agenda but I would bet an awful lot that when the facts come out the one has nothing to do with the other.

Stan_Humphries
04-04-2009, 5:45 PM
It's not surprising to see that the national media is attributing this young man's firearms infatuation as headline-worthy.

Imagine the outrage if the headlines were "Oakland Copkiller was Obama Supporter" or "NYC Shooter Die-Hard Pro-Choice Activist."

Is it newsworthy to report the belief systems of these crazies? I guess.

Is it appropriate for Drudge to post "Pittsburgh Copkiller Feared Obama Gun Ban"? Not unless you can tie that to his motive for shooting up the cops.

SteveH
04-04-2009, 5:56 PM
Gosh, where to start.

Clearly the murders political veiws on obama and potential gun bans had nothing to do with him murdering three cops. Perhaps in his paronoid mind but in no rational way.

The media generally refers to anything semiautomatic or centerfire as "high power." I stopped expecting accurancy or common sense out of the media long ago.

yellowfin
04-04-2009, 6:23 PM
Why the hell would someone who feared being deprived of his guns translate that to killing police. It doesnt even make sense. I am sure that an idiot friend might offer up that bit of extra sensationalism but it has nothing to do with why the guy opened fire on police officers.

I am not surprised that the media lumps it in since it fits their rhetoric/agenda but I would bet an awful lot that when the facts come out the one has nothing to do with the other. Actually it's entirely plausible. If you feared a gun confiscation was happening, wouldn't it be the police sent to do it? Also, hoarding ammo in fear of Obama's ban plans isn't crazy at all- everyone here talks about it and many if not most of us are doing so because in a perfectly clear mind we know that is a very realistic possibility. Our non-gun owning friends and relatives may not understand this and it probably does look a little or possibly very paranoid, and paranoid with guns triggers alarms in people's minds. People call the cops when they're scared of other people, ESPECIALLY if they're armed. The news seems geared towards instructing people to fear anyone with a gun, and stokes the fears of both parties. And what more perfectly convenient excuse can there be to disarm someone than declaring them crazy.

I'd say chalk this one up 100% to media escalating everything. It may be TFH to say it was directly caused by sinister activities, but you can almost certainly say the anti 2a agenda is running psy ops and they want a certain outcome.

grahlaika
04-04-2009, 6:26 PM
The steady diet of gun violence Hollywood has been feeding society is coming back to haunt us. The only chance we have of keeping our gun rights is to join the NRA and stay active and committed in our support of the 2nd amendment.

Where's the NRA's outrage at these killings? Three major incidents, and not one public appearance by the NRA to decry them, and to condemn these senseless killings.

The truth is that the NRA is part of the problem, and not part of the solution. Not everyone wants to own weapons, and not everyone should. The answer to these incidents cannot always be "well, those people should armed themselves and everything would have been fine, so that means we should give guns to more people." The general population has a right to feel safe from irresponsible and criminal gun owners, and right now they don't - right or wrong or statistics saying otherwise won't matter much in the coming months.

The right to bear arms was earned in the Revolution, but has been slowly squandered because of events like this. It's a complex issue demanding complex solutions. How do we balance the people's ability to stand up to their government if need be with the public's need for safety? How do we deal with gun owners going through difficult mental and emotional life episodes without resulting in mass murders?

If we keep pushing the 'us vs. them' mentality we'll lose our rights. As responsible gun owners we take on a responsibility to safeguard not just the safety of our own families, but also the safety of those defenseless around us. We do need some reasonable restrictions in place to accomplish that, and by being unwilling to even accept that fact, we're ignoring political reality.

yellowfin
04-04-2009, 6:37 PM
Et tu, grahlaika?

oldrifle
04-04-2009, 6:44 PM
How are we screwed, I am not going to turn in any of my guns. Just because someone misuses their weapon doesn't mean everyone suffers for it. We can't loose our god given rights, we can only give them up.

Dude. When you can't go into a gun store and buy guns or ammo any more, it's not just a matter of them taking the ones you already have. We have to fight these people for the sake of our children and the future of our country.

RRangel
04-04-2009, 7:09 PM
Where's the NRA's outrage at these killings? Three major incidents, and not one public appearance by the NRA to decry them, and to condemn these senseless killings.

Why would the NRA decry them? The NRA lives in the non-bizzaro world where justice and common sense goes without saying. That you would equate the NRA with criminals with guns is very telling.

The truth is that the NRA is part of the problem, and not part of the solution. Not everyone wants to own weapons, and not everyone should. The answer to these incidents cannot always be "well, those people should armed themselves and everything would have been fine, so that means we should give guns to more people." The general population has a right to feel safe from irresponsible and criminal gun owners, and right now they don't - right or wrong or statistics saying otherwise won't matter much in the coming months.

Right or wrong statistics will matter, because this is not 1994. There's a new media in town.

The right to bear arms was earned in the Revolution, but has been slowly squandered because of events like this. It's a complex issue demanding complex solutions. How do we balance the people's ability to stand up to their government if need be with the public's need for safety? How do we deal with gun owners going through difficult mental and emotional life episodes without resulting in mass murders?

The right to keep and bear arms has been eroded because of an ignorant populace who made, and continue to make the mistake of trusting those who break their oath to uphold the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are enumerated rights. The existence of these rights does not depend on the Bill of Rights.

If we keep pushing the 'us vs. them' mentality we'll lose our rights. As responsible gun owners we take on a responsibility to safeguard not just the safety of our own families, but also the safety of those defenseless around us. We do need some reasonable restrictions in place to accomplish that, and by being unwilling to even accept that fact, we're ignoring political reality.

Like it or not it is "us vs. them", because those who enact gun bans under the guise of safety do not respect our rights.

And just who will propose these "reasonable restrictions"? Let me take a guess? Those who are clamoring at any chance or excuse to remove our rights. Dianne Feinstein, Henry Waxman, Chuck Schumer, etc.

The same legislators who would love to enact every socialist pipe dream and sell every citizen down the river if it means they get to stay in office. The same modern day aristocrats who put themselves above all else. Frankly, you need a better argument.

FordFreak
04-04-2009, 7:21 PM
The right to bear arms was earned in the Revolution, but has been slowly squandered because of events like this. It's a complex issue demanding complex solutions. How do we balance the people's ability to stand up to their government if need be with the public's need for safety?
If we keep pushing the 'us vs. them' mentality we'll lose our rights. As responsible gun owners we take on a responsibility to safeguard not just the safety of our own families, but also the safety of those defenseless around us. We do need some reasonable restrictions in place to accomplish that, and by being unwilling to even accept that fact, we're ignoring political reality.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Seems to me MORE RESTRICTIONS or the percived fear of more restrictions are whats causing the paranoia.

TurnerBurn
04-04-2009, 7:25 PM
Unashamed to not only wear the "tin-foil" hat, but wear the version that is equipped w/ the "face-mask" as well. I do believe the govt. ("R's" and "D's") want to disarm as many citizens as possible. And I do believe that tools like this one are in use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_ultra

Two Shots
04-04-2009, 7:25 PM
We certainly don't need quacks like this guy above saying he feared his guns being taken away. But i'm not sure how much of that is just the media sensationalizing it.

Craig


+1 I'm wondering since it was a Domestic, if the LEO's told him they would need to take his weapons and he flipped out and attacked.

No excuse on earth for what he did, condolences to the LEO's family, friends and fellow officers.

http://auntirvina.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/flag-at-half-staff.jpg

Hoop
04-04-2009, 7:31 PM
The truth is that the NRA is part of the problem

WRONG. Wrong wrong wrong.

hawk81
04-04-2009, 8:07 PM
Dude, I got news for you, I am willing to die for my rights. Are you? The government is going to do what it is going to do, they can not be stopped anymore by pursuasion. All of this is going to come to a head pretty soon. Buy ammo and guns and prepare for the war that is coming.



Dude. When you can't go into a gun store and buy guns or ammo any more, it's not just a matter of them taking the ones you already have. We have to fight these people for the sake of our children and the future of our country.

rp55
04-04-2009, 8:21 PM
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09094/960662-100.stm) is reporting, and I quote "Records indicate that Mr. Poplawski was dishonorably discharged from the corps during basic training."

Now I draw your attention to question 12 g. on ATF From 4473: "Have you been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions?"

So this raises a couple of questions.
First. How can they report he was afraid of losing his gun rights as he had already lost them?
Second. How can they report that the LEOs were shot with a legal AK47 when it is not legal for someone with a DD to posses firearms (Section 922(g))?

ChuckBooty
04-04-2009, 8:36 PM
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09094/960662-100.stm) is reporting, and I quote "Records indicate that Mr. Poplawski was dishonorably discharged from the corps during basic training."

Now I draw your attention to question 12 g. on ATF From 4473: "Have you been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions?"

So this raises a couple of questions.
First. How can they report he was afraid of losing his gun rights as he had already lost them?
Second. How can they report that the LEOs were shot with a legal AK47 when it is not legal for someone with a DD to posses firearms (Section 922(g))?

You're 100% right. However, this is a no-win situation for 2A activists. The media (especially the vile MSNBC) is going to play the sound bite of the killers "friend" talking about how he was "obsessed with gun rights" over and over and over again. And they'll deny that they're pushing an anti 2A agenda with this story...so that if someone tries to make the point on how this individual was not legally allowed to own an AK it'll just get turned around on the pro-2A crowd as if it was US who is trying to push OUR agenda.

VW*Mike
04-04-2009, 8:39 PM
My deepest thoughts and sympathies for the families of these officers.

Yes, there has been a rash of shootings/suicides lately. They are being publicized by the liberal media and campaigned for their leftist agendas. That we know is fact. These people are less then human. They aren't government puppets brainwashed by the Brady campaign, etc. They are just screwed up people. These types of things have happened in the past, and will in the future. Regardless of legislation, bans, laws, etc. If all guns disappeared tomorrow, these people would start mowing over crowds on the street ala Grand Theft Auto, mass clubbings with VCR's, axe murders, etc.

Lets look at other facts before we start flying off the handle and all throw in the towel and say "We are all screwed" Our attitudes carry a lot of weight. We need to focus on the positive things we have going for us. We need to keep up the good fight, and take on all the small battles, because they all build up. We also need a voice on the big issues. If the NRA isn't getting it done, then we need to talk to them. They are powerful, have a lot of money and carry weight. Lets not forget WHO's money they have, ours. I think we need a good PR department. The liberals want to put a bad spin on these stories? Great. We should have backing and the PR to spin it right back. Obama IMO and his cronies have already sealed their fate for 2012 with their first 100 days in office.

SO, lets hear YOUR true positive fact we have going for us! Here is mine.

Positive factoid: The Dems and Pelosi that stated they have no interest in a new AWB SO soon before all this, now have a huge axe over their heads of being branded political "Flip/Floppers" if you will, if they now change course so soon. Which we all know doesn't get forgotten easily "No new taxes" ring a bell?

yellowfin
04-04-2009, 8:56 PM
^ The one major problem is that consequences come to anti gun politicians after the fact and far from 100% of the time. Negative repercussions almost never come to the press. Our ability to undo the damage after the fact is rather unsatisfactory when faced with large enough of an attack- sewing up a knife wound is fine; it is little comfort when one's adversaries are wielding a chainsaw.

RRangel
04-04-2009, 9:37 PM
^ The one major problem is that consequences come to anti gun politicians after the fact and far from 100% of the time. Negative repercussions almost never come to the press. Our ability to undo the damage after the fact is rather unsatisfactory when faced with large enough of an attack- sewing up a knife wound is fine; it is little comfort when one's adversaries are wielding a chainsaw.

Our problem here is that some of our recent defeatist posts are not constructive. If it's not constructive then it does not belong, and that goes especially in the 2nd Amendment forum. There is only so much information people are going to process before they go on to the next thing. If prospective gun rights enthusiasts that visit leave because it has become a terrible place to be, then what?

It's like some users have a fascination with every recent poorly done crime article. Poorly done posts that don't have any thing constructive for an "army of Davids" are a waste of time, they're detrimental, not to mention annoying.

There are some users here that have downright tried to undermine this websites very reason for being. We need to ignore the media noise in as much as it helps us move forward.

gbp
04-04-2009, 10:32 PM
it would be interesting to find out how many shots were fired by him vs how many fired by the police. the press stating he had an ak and then associating 'over 100 rounds leads people in what may be the wrong direction. it also sounds like a 'suicide by cop'
my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the LEOs

kap
04-04-2009, 10:48 PM
it would be interesting to find out how many shots were fired by him vs how many fired by the police. the press stating he had an ak and then associating 'over 100 rounds leads people in what may be the wrong direction. it also sounds like a 'suicide by cop'
my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the LEOs

A guy wearing a bulletproof vest is not looking for suicide by cop. He was looking to last as long as possible and take many people with him. Sounds like a crazy guy to me. Maybe undiagnosed schizophrenia. 23 would be about the right age for it to start.

gbp
04-04-2009, 11:03 PM
A guy wearing a bulletproof vest is not looking for suicide by cop. He was looking to last as long as possible and take many people with him. Sounds like a crazy guy to me. Maybe undiagnosed schizophrenia. 23 would be about the right age for it to start.

my comment was somewhat referring to his alleged telephone conversation with his friend. i do not know when that comversation took place within the overall incident but it clearly sounds like he was not expecting to come out of this alive

Pvt. Cowboy
04-04-2009, 11:12 PM
Dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps during basic training is all I needed to know about this hideous fiend being a total lightweight criminal waste of cell tissue.

CenterX
04-04-2009, 11:20 PM
Dishonorable discharge from the Marine Corps during basic training is all I needed to know about this hideous fiend being a total lightweight criminal waste of cell tissue.

So, if this is true - yep a total waste. Darn.

oldrifle
04-04-2009, 11:21 PM
Dude, I got news for you, I am willing to die for my rights. Are you? The government is going to do what it is going to do, they can not be stopped anymore by pursuasion. All of this is going to come to a head pretty soon. Buy ammo and guns and prepare for the war that is coming.

No need to argue... we're on the same side, brother. ;)

And yes, I am willing to put it all on the line to preserve my country.

CenterX
04-04-2009, 11:25 PM
I heard a report that in his conversation the friend stated that the first two officers were plain clothes and he sot them thinking they were intruders bent on robbing him(?) All seems a bit convoluted. Was this guy nutty from prescription meds as well?

U2BassAce
04-05-2009, 9:36 AM
it would be interesting to find out how many shots were fired by him vs how many fired by the police. the press stating he had an ak and then associating 'over 100 rounds leads people in what may be the wrong direction. it also sounds like a 'suicide by cop'
my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the LEOs

Fox showed the SWAT team's armored car with several bullet hits on it.

They also had a video where in just a 30 second clip over 100 shots were fired. From the report of the shots I would say 80% were incoming to the cop killer. I think the Chief of Police downplayed the amount of shots fired because a hell of a lot came from his side. (I have no problem with this, with two cops laying bleeding in front of the house pended down I would hope the LEOs on scene turned that house into a cheese grater!)

.454
04-05-2009, 9:52 AM
Sipsey Street Irregulars: He was a frigging Nazi! What's so hard about that? (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/04/he-was-frigging-nazi-whats-so-hard.html)

grahlaika
04-05-2009, 10:21 AM
There are some users here that have downright tried to undermine this websites very reason for being. We need to ignore the media noise in as much as it helps us move forward.

Trying to undermine the website's reason for being? Agitators? WTF is that all about? Is there no room for a different opinion on this website? Are we all supposed to think the same, and not question anything because it might hurt visitors to the website? Wouldn't visitors to the website be more apt to participate if they witness open and honest debates about how to defend our rights?

Look, I've already admitted yesterday to having been a bit over-enthusiastic about the recent news on shootings, which is why I stepped away from this forum and from the news for a bit. That doesn't make what I wrote before wrong, or in any way undermining or agitatory (is that even a word?).

I happen to believe there are plenty of things we as gun owners can do to prevent unfit gun owners from having access to weapons, because when they do and things go badly, it hurts our cause. Perhaps you believe that everything is fine, and there's nothing wrong with people getting guns today, and it's all the liberal's fault for everything. I don't know. I do know that without those sorts of discussions on forums like this we're likely to slowly lose our rights. That's one of the reasons I joined. What does it say about you when you label one of your own as being subversive to the cause?

In any event, if opinions like mine that present a different point of view on tackling this issue aren't welcome, I'll limit my posts to the other threads and share my knowledge of specific weapons there. In your own words, I won't let the door hit me in the... Cheers!

SC_Chewy
04-05-2009, 10:37 AM
As soon as you start hearing the word "crisis" you know it's coming down. That word alone is what has preceded every totalitarian policy this and the last prez has instituted. Watch for that word people......."crisis"..........

U2BassAce
04-05-2009, 11:05 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090405/ap_on_re_us/pittsburgh_shooting;_ylt=AriuvBGkQjxerMifW7T022Fvz wcF

The latest.

Fight over urinating dog got police to Pa. ambush


PITTSBURGH – A 911 call that brought two city police officers to a home where they were ambushed, and where a third was later killed during a four-hour siege, was precipitated by a fight between the gunman and his mother over a dog urinating in the house.

The Saturday morning argument between Margaret and Richard Poplawski escalated to the point that she threatened to kick him out and called police to do it, according to a 12-page criminal complaint and affidavit filed late Saturday that contains her account.

When officers Paul Sciullo III and Stephen Mayhle arrived, Margaret Poplawski opened the door and told them to come in and take her 23-year-old son, apparently unaware that he had grabbed a long rifle and was standing behind her, according to the court papers. She told investigators she heard gunshots, spun around and ran to the basement, shouting, "What the hell have you done?"

Autopsies show Sciullo, 37, died of wounds to the head and torso, while Mayhle, 29, was shot in the head.

A third officer, Eric Kelly, 41, was killed as he arrived to assist the first two officers. Kelly was in uniform but on his way home when he responded and was gunned down in the street.

Kelly's radio call for help summoned other officers, including a SWAT team. The ensuing standoff included a gun battle in which police say Richard Poplawski tried to kill at least nine other officers.

Poplawski is charged with three counts of criminal homicide and nine counts of attempted homicide — one each for the officers he allegedly fired at, including one who was shot in the hand as he tried to help Kelly.

Poplawski was also charged with possessing an instrument of crime: the bulletproof vest he wore during the gun battle with police. The criminal complaint doesn't say how Poplawski obtained the vest.

Police Chief Nate Harper Jr. has said the vest kept Poplawski from being more seriously wounded, but police have not specifically said how many shots were stopped by the vest.

A district judge arraigned Poplawski at UPMC Presbyerian Hospital, an arraignment court worker told The Associated Press on Sunday. Poplawski was being treated there for gunshot wounds to his legs and remains under guard. Police and hospital officials have not released his condition, though he is expected to survive.

It was not immediately clear if Poplawski has an attorney. A preliminary hearing, at which Poplawski could challenge the charges, wasn't immediately scheduled.

Poplawski is also charged with firing weapons into two occupied neighboring homes and with recklessly endangering four civilians with gunfire. None were wounded.

Police did not immediately say why Poplawski fired toward the neighboring homes, but some officers were seen going into nearby homes and perching on rooftops in an attempt to control the scene.

Ground Loop
04-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Since he had a DD, can we change the title of this thread already?
What research/evidence says it's a "Legal AK"?

KAVEMAN762
04-05-2009, 11:47 AM
Rest in peace to the officers doing thier jobs:79: I think after all these cases, any and all LEO should be very alert at approaching domestic violence calls, and felony stops. They should take cover and tell them over the megaphone to come out with thier paws up. If they dont or re-fuse, you already know there is going to be a situation. Any one in there right mind that knows he/she is not doing anything wrong will comply to the messages over the loud speaker, regardless of "how they feel they are being treated"

Musclemom
04-05-2009, 11:47 AM
Since he had a DD, can we change the title of this thread already?
What research/evidence says it's a "Legal AK"?

News agencies had reported that the gun was legally owned. But yes, the point has been made that if he was DD, then it wasn't legally owned. I haven't seen the source of info on the DD.

RRangel
04-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Trying to undermine the website's reason for being? Agitators? WTF is that all about? Is there no room for a different opinion on this website? Are we all supposed to think the same, and not question anything because it might hurt visitors to the website? Wouldn't visitors to the website be more apt to participate if they witness open and honest debates about how to defend our rights?

Look, I've already admitted yesterday to having been a bit over-enthusiastic about the recent news on shootings, which is why I stepped away from this forum and from the news for a bit. That doesn't make what I wrote before wrong, or in any way undermining or agitatory (is that even a word?).

I happen to believe there are plenty of things we as gun owners can do to prevent unfit gun owners from having access to weapons, because when they do and things go badly, it hurts our cause. Perhaps you believe that everything is fine, and there's nothing wrong with people getting guns today, and it's all the liberal's fault for everything. I don't know. I do know that without those sorts of discussions on forums like this we're likely to slowly lose our rights. That's one of the reasons I joined. What does it say about you when you label one of your own as being subversive to the cause?

In any event, if opinions like mine that present a different point of view on tackling this issue aren't welcome, I'll limit my posts to the other threads and share my knowledge of specific weapons there. In your own words, I won't let the door hit me in the... Cheers!

Associating the NRA with crime is a big red flag. You inadvertently make a link when you suggest that the NRA must make a public statement because of a crime, and then go on to say that the NRA is a problem. Most smart people who are well versed with the MO of antis are familiar with the code words "reasonable restriction" which you advocate. If you come to this forum to argue for more onerous laws you're in the wrong place.

grahlaika
04-05-2009, 3:30 PM
Associating the NRA with crime is a big red flag. You inadvertently make a link when you suggest that the NRA must make a public statement because of a crime, and then go on to say that the NRA is a problem. Most smart people who are well versed with the MO of antis are familiar with the code words "reasonable restriction" which you advocate. If you come to this forum to argue for more onerous laws you're in the wrong place.

That's an association you chose to make based on what I wrote. I never made that association. All I said was that the NRA has made some mistakes in their approach to defending our rights, and that I would have liked to see them condemn these killings publicly. At no time did I associate them with crime, whatever that means.

You choose to see red flags, and agitators where there are none, and that's your prerogative. You speak of being constructive, yet you've added nothing to this discussion besides flaming those of us who can think for ourselves and happen to have a different opinion. You choose to infer that I have certain views from a few words I wrote, without bothering to ask, and frankly that makes you no better than the anti's who see all of us gun owners as blood-thirsty crazed killers because they don't bother and don't care to see our point of view. If you honestly want to know what my views are on certain issues, all you have to do is to ask.

You're also attacking me because I question the NRA's approach. My response to you if that the NRA is not some deity to be worshiped without question. They're an organization like any other - fallible, imperfect, and subject to making mistakes. My opinion is that those of us who chose to have the NRA represent us in the fight for our rights have a responsibility to point out those imperfections and wrong decisions so that the NRA can grow and improve. By not questioning their actions, you become no different than the sheeple you despise.

Anyway, think what you will of me. I guarantee you that whatever assumptions you make are wrong. Once again, cheers! I won't respond to this thread any longer, but I'm not going anywhere.

CA_Libertarian
04-05-2009, 3:33 PM
While there is cause for concern, I disagree with those that are alarmed and proclaiming doom and gloom.

All this "it's over" defeatism only benefits the gun grabbers.

tactic101
04-05-2009, 8:54 PM
I'd say chalk this one up 100% to media escalating everything.


The guy was a bad apple. Dishonorable discharge, kicked out of school, etc.

Heard an interesting interview with a criminologist last night on the last few mass murders and she too thought that the media's sensational tone about our economic woes was partly to blame.

valleyguy
04-05-2009, 9:16 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090405/ap_on_re_us/pittsburgh_shooting;_ylt=AriuvBGkQjxerMifW7T022Fvz wcF

The latest.

Fight over urinating dog got police to Pa. ambush


Wonder if Grandma feels some regret about the whole thing in hindsight? Kind of a stupid thing to do to threaten to make your grandson homeless over a dog, and push him over the edge. Now there's 3 cops dead, her grandson's life is ruined, but hey, no more dog! :rolleyes::(:banghead:

Sad to think this could happen, but domestic disturbances often spiral out of control, making them both the most common and one of the more dangerous things for law enforcement to have to respond to. You get someone on a really bad day, push them too far (by threatening to kick them out of the house over something as stupid as an unhousebroken pet), mix in other issues (maybe mental), firearms, and it's like dynamite. People do things in the heat of the moment they will regret for the rest of their lives, and in this case, for the rest of many people's lives.

valleyguy
04-05-2009, 9:25 PM
The steady diet of gun violence Hollywood has been feeding society is coming back to haunt us. The only chance we have of keeping our gun rights is to join the NRA and stay active and committed in our support of the 2nd amendment.

+1

This has always been an issue in our culture, but there is a real romanticism of guns in the media, and not in a very responsible way. My wife watches several shows (mostly CSI-type crime/detective dramas), and the way that handguns are constantly bandied about is pretty ridiculous. I didn't used to notice it as much before I became a gun owner, but now I find myself noticing how often people on TV and film constantly muzzle sweep everyone (even when the person is not a suspect) and cock the hammer -- that part actually makes me wince, as I know how easy it is to have a gun go off once you do that.

There is cultural fascination with guns that borders on obsession. We at least have an excuse here -- we're all lifestyle/hobbyist/RKBA-ers here, and make firearms and firearms safety a big part of our lives. But this is programming for the run-of-the-mill American, and the irresponsible way that firearms and firearm use is treated on the screen gives a lot of reason for thought on what we're teaching ourselves and our kids.

Once I have kids, I myself will be very much about explaining to my kids proper firearm use, and never let them have toy guns. They can have BB guns and real ones (with my supervision at all times, and me keeping the guns under lock and key) when they are the right age, but I'm not going to be part of this culture of making toys out of guns, and guns out of toys. Our 2nd Amendment is too important to let some idiot screenwriters trivialize it.

I see this guy as part of the outgrowth of this sick fascination. Have a problem, mad about something, feeling desperate? Grab a gun. We've seen a lot of this in the past 30 days. If we want to keep our RKBA and stave off the gun-grabbers, we need to make sure guys like this get weeded out, or the gun-grabbing, ignorant public and politicians, educated by idiotic TV shows that show "normal gun use," will make the decision for us, and weed everyone out.

tactic101
04-05-2009, 9:30 PM
Trying to undermine the website's reason for being? Agitators? WTF is that all about? Is there no room for a different opinion on this website? Are we all supposed to think the same, and not question anything because it might hurt visitors to the website? Wouldn't visitors to the website be more apt to participate if they witness open and honest debates about how to defend our rights?


AFAIK Calguns is not devoted to the debate over whether our 2A rights ought exist. The very premise is that our 2A rights ought to be protected.

Maybe you aren't sure of that proposition, maybe you're swayed by anti-gun blather from friends/family/media, or maybe you're here to deliberately stir things up but regardless of motive many of your posts basically amount to trolling for reactions. Several of your posts contain verbiage straight out of the gun grabbers' phrase book. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you have qualms about the constitution, I would kindly ask you to lurk more, post less. When you go to a website that has, oh say 99.9% of posts on the pro side of some proposition, the only reason to post there against that overwhelming majority is to prevent them from enjoying what they want to talk about.

I happen to believe there are plenty of things we as gun owners can do to prevent unfit gun owners from having access to weapons, because when they do and things go badly, it hurts our cause. Perhaps you believe that everything is fine, and there's nothing wrong with people getting guns today, and it's all the liberal's fault for everything. I don't know.

You keep saying something nebulous along these lines without offering any specifics, which makes you sound disingenuous. You allege that law abiding gun owners are responsible for these crimes, which does not compute. As has been pointed out time and again in most of these cases the perpetrators were violating the firearms laws before their crime anyway, so I ask you again, what specifically are you talking about?

dawson8r
04-05-2009, 9:42 PM
Okay, my TF hat is on nice and tight.

Can you say CONSPIRACY? Sure you can. Do not underestimate the enemy!

dfletcher
04-05-2009, 10:37 PM
I happen to believe there are plenty of things we as gun owners can do to prevent unfit gun owners from having access to weapons, because when they do and things go badly, it hurts our cause. Perhaps you believe that everything is fine, and there's nothing wrong with people getting guns today, and it's all the liberal's fault for everything. I don't know. I do know that without those sorts of discussions on forums like this we're likely to slowly lose our rights.

I don't know where this puts me in the "dealing with gun control" experience but I've been paying attention and been fairly politically aware since about 1968 or so. Growing up in NH I saw our neighbors to the south in Massachusetts have their gun rights restricted more & more. I can not think of a single compromise that ultimately worked to the benefit of gun owners.

The NRA isn't perfect, no organization made of fallible men is, but to call them part of the problem is I think wrong. I think the bigger problem is, how do you deal with a group of people such as the antigunners, who philosophically take an approach similar to the old "what's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable"?

yellowfin
04-05-2009, 11:55 PM
That brings me to a question I've been wondering who I could ask. In your recollection, dfletcher, what tilted Massachusetts against our rights? What made things go downhill there?

dfletcher
04-06-2009, 12:37 AM
That brings me to a question I've been wondering who I could ask. In your recollection, dfletcher, what tilted Massachusetts against our rights? What made things go downhill there?

I don't know that it's possible to identify a specific year, but it's a rather gradual process. I suppose the President's assassination had an impact and was the first time I recall a generally receptive environment for gun control.

But I'd say it's a combination of a strong Democratic Party and a weak Republican Party. Republicans such as Frank Sargent who as a businessman owned a few gun stores, but as Governor favored banning "Saturday Night Specials". John Volpe wasn't much better nor Romney, I think the only strong Republican Governor was Ed King, I don't know much about Bill Weld. Senator Ed Brooke was pretty typical of the sort of Republican most MA voters are comfortable with & I think he'd be considered fairly liberal.

The Democrats have always been strong in the larger cities such as Boston, Springfield and Lowell, Lawrence while Republicans have from time to time done OK in northeast MA, the Cape and in western MA. Some of my family lives in Andover and we have a place on the Cape, so I know there are a few Republicans left there. But there's simply not enough people in these areas to offset the heavily populated cities. I believe the MA statehouse has about 80% Democrats and 20% Republicans, I think that explains much of the situation.

jamesob
04-06-2009, 8:25 AM
the ak47 is only hearsay, the police have not said what it is. the friend if that, said it was an ak but no confirmation on that.

Jbox
04-06-2009, 11:23 AM
It's what I referred to in my other thread about "suicide contagion". These are copycat killings, just like when we had that spree of school shootings. Media over-reporting of these incidents encourages them. Media should exercise responsibility here and give restrained coverage of these incidents.


+1000

AaronHorrocks
04-06-2009, 11:32 AM
the ak47 is only hearsay, the police have not said what it is. the friend if that, said it was an ak but no confirmation on that.

Oh come on, you know it's always an "AK47".

Even if it's an SKS, a 10/22, or a saiga, it's an "AK47"

Jbox
04-06-2009, 11:36 AM
This is so sad... watching these loonies destroy families and most probably create the public will to take away our rights.

How many of these have we had in the past two months? How many did we have in the previous 8 years??

I'm not sure if this is all of them but its what I could find.


March 2005 - A 16-year-old high school student gunned down five students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in far northern Minnesota before killing himself. He also killed his grandfather and his grandfather's companion elsewhere on the Chippewa Indian reservation.

October 2, 2006 - A local milk truck driver who was not Amish, tied up and shot 10 Amish schoolgirls aged 6 to 14 in their classroom, killing five of them before turning the gun on himself in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, about 60 miles (97 km) west of Philadelphia.

April 16, 2007 - A university in Blacksburg, Virginia, Virginia Tech, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

December 5, 2007 - A gunman opened fire from a balcony in a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, killing eight people and wounding five, before taking his own life, police said.

Jbox
04-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Anyone else see something wrong with sending only two officers to take guns away from someone who has been deemed too dangerous to have guns?

:confused:

If there were a place for at least some SWAT like care and attention to detail this would be it.

The articles I hacve read said the first two officers were responding to a domestic violence call.

SuperSet
04-06-2009, 11:44 AM
Okay, my TF hat is on nice and tight.

Can you say CONSPIRACY? Sure you can. Do not underestimate the enemy!

Hmmm..
To take your point to its most logical conclusion, who is the enemy in this case? And what, if any, role did they play in this shooting?

jamesob
04-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Oh come on, you know it's always an "AK47".

Even if it's an SKS, a 10/22, or a saiga, it's an "AK47" yep i know that.