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View Full Version : AB357, postponed till Apr 21 for hearings.


nicki
04-04-2009, 2:01 AM
AB357 has been postponed, I got this in a e mail from Dave Orosco, Asm Steve Knight's chief of staff.

We have a chance to make a significant difference in helping this bill further than it would.

Even if the bill fails, our testimony which will become part of the public record if done right, will move more sheriffs to open up, maybe even go "shall issue" without waiting for the legislature or lawsuits to force them.

If I was running the hearing, I would push for witnesses that would cover a broad range of demographics and who could strongly articulate 1 to 2 main points each with emotion and passion.

Our witnesses need to be "on fire", talking from the heart. That is what looks good on film and those are the kind of clips that get on the news.

My take, we need the following types of witnesses.

1. I'll represent the LBGT community unless someone else wants to step forward.

The state legislature passed hate crimes laws, so the state legislature sees problems.

2. Domestic Violence advocate or victim: I want a female who can articulate the need of victims of domestic violence to self defense and explain that even though 1000's of restraining orders for violence are issued every month, few women are able to get CCW permits.

The state legislature passed anti stalking laws, they also passed various laws regarding domestic violence, including one that allows holders of restraining orders to use the restraining order as a affirmative defense for carrying a loaded concealed weapon without a license.

3. Minority community activist, someone who is trying to get rid of drug dealers and gangs. This could be alot of fun, where is Pat4Oakland?

4. If we could get Guy Smith, he could run as a professional on the facts. He would destroy the public safety argument for "May Issue".

5. We need a speaker (Gene, where are you) to articulate the history of where we got our CCW system from, then tie how it is in conflict with constitutional rights and that maintaining the status quo will give lawyers lots of work at taxpayer expense.

NRA and GOC could then just say they support AB357.

Now, if we do things right, we should have our opponents look really stupid when they open their mouths.

Dave told me that they would try to also have public comments after the key witnesses spoke.

This is where you guys would really shine. What I would want to do is have people give short statements on what I consider are legit good cause that CCW permits routinely get denied on.

Cab Drivers: Number 1 for death by homicide on the job: Bureau of Labor.
Bail Bondsmen: These guys collect 90 percent of the trash that jumps bail
Private investigators:Need I say more.
Tow truck drivers: They travel all over
Repo men: People get angry about their cars being seized
Real Estate agents: Often have to travel with many clients personal info
Private security guards: Guards run into people they arrested of the job.
Business owners: Some actually have large cash deposits.

We could make things happen.

If this is something you will get involved in send me a pm.

Nicki

dustoff31
04-04-2009, 7:56 AM
Hopefully we'll also have a favorable Nordyke ruling by the new hearing date as well.

PatriotnMore
04-04-2009, 8:03 AM
"I want a female who can articulate the need of victims of domestic violence to self defense and explain that even though 1000's of restraining orders for violence are issued every month, few women are able to get CCW permits."

Personally, I would like more than a couple of females. This is the gender most lacking in numbers within the gun community, and yet, women would benefit greatly from shall issue.

ilbob
04-04-2009, 8:07 AM
I think you are dreaming of you think that anyone in Sacramento much cares about whether individual citizens live or die.

IMO, your best bet is to hammer them with Heller. Make it clear that Heller is going to eventually force the state to recognize some kind of carry and if they want to have any chance of controlling how that comes to be shall issue CC is it. Otherwise the courts are going to make the decisions for them.

vrand
04-04-2009, 8:11 AM
"I want a female who can articulate the need of victims of domestic violence to self defense and explain that even though 1000's of restraining orders for violence are issued every month, few women are able to get CCW permits."

Personally, I would like more than a couple of females. This is the gender most lacking in numbers within the gun community, and yet, women would benefit greatly from shall issue.

:thumbsup:

dustoff31
04-04-2009, 8:25 AM
I think you are dreaming of you think that anyone in Sacramento much cares about whether individual citizens live or die.

IMO, your best bet is to hammer them with Heller. Make it clear that Heller is going to eventually force the state to recognize some kind of carry and if they want to have any chance of controlling how that comes to be shall issue CC is it. Otherwise the courts are going to make the decisions for them.


Frankly, that's my take as well. Talking to CA legislators about gun rights, is fine but IMHO, useless.

They will only pay attention when Heller (incorporation) is jammed up their hind end and broken off, by a federal court.

WebMoskal
04-04-2009, 8:42 AM
Can't there be a case also made where ccw or off-duty cop basically stopped killing spree vs what happened at Binghamton and others.

nicki
04-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Guys.

AB357 won't pass regardless of what we say, but what it will do is help change the debate from it being just a "gun" issue to where it will be a "civil rights" and "clean government issue".

When I explain to non gunnies how the CCW system really works, most people are shocked.

Most non gun people (many liberal leaning women) I have talked with think that a "equal issue", but with tight objective standards where people pass background checks, take a gun course and qualify so that they are competent(kinda like a driver license) is a reasonable balance between private right of self defense and legitimate safety concerns.

In light of these mass shootings, we should push AB357 because the only way shooters are stopped is if they commit suicide or if someone shoots them. Read John Lott's book, more guns less crime.

The Binghamtom police department took 60 minutes to take action. Every minute a mass shooter is not confronted results in another dead victim.

Someone carrying a gun may not be able to stop a shooter, but they will at least slow him down and that will save others lives.

A few CCW holders in the country have done that, there was one case in Texas where a CCW holder got into a gun fight with a guy who had body ammor and a AK47.

Unfortunately the CCW holder hit the guy in the chest and ran out of ammo.
He was shot, the bastard then came up and put a head shot, so that CCW holder died. But he stopped a mass shooting, the killer took off.

Another CCW holder chased him and stayed with him till police caught up in a car chase. This was in the news less than one day. The story got buried because a CCW holder rather than the police saved lives.

Nicki

leitung
04-04-2009, 11:36 AM
Private security guards: Guards run into people they arrested of the job.

Thanks for remembering us, I can do what I can to help, but public speaking is NOT my strong suit. I would hurt us more then help, but I can do other things, I am more than willing to march or hit the street corners for Shall Issue CCW.

nicki
04-04-2009, 12:26 PM
Thanks for remembering us, I can do what I can to help, but public speaking is NOT my strong suit. I would hurt us more then help, but I can do other things, I am more than willing to march or hit the street corners for Shall Issue CCW.
__________________
NRA Member


Many people feel the same as you and that is okay. I will know better what the game plan is early in the week and I will repost.

This is not our bill, it is Assemblyman Knight's bill, although it may turn significantly into our bill because of our involvement. His staffer is willing to take help and if we are the ones in the trenches, the bill will have a Calgun Flavor.

My hope is that we can have a panel of strong witnesses who will speak for about 2 minutes. Of course the other side will get their chance, but if we do our job right, they will look stupid the minute they open their mouths.

My hope is that we would have the room full, we need to show up the people from Orange county, let's outdo them, in a friendly way:thumbsup:

A good showing by us will help them alot.

If we had "average looking people" (you guys are not average) just come up and make a short statement and stay away from the legal or esoteric arguments, just something from the gut will do.

For example:

Hi, I'm John Doe. I'm a professional security guard, I have arrested many people over the years and many have made threats not just to me, but my coworkers about how they and their homeboys are going to "***k me up".

I can't get a CCW in my county because I don't have "documented death threats". What do I have to do, wait for someone to take a shot at me first, what if they don't miss.


Hi, I'm Joe Cabdriver: I' a cab driver, it is a dangerous job, it has the highest death rate for on the job homicde according to the Bureau of Labor. My sheriff won't issue me a CCW because I don't have "Good Cause".

Hi, I'm Mary: My ex husband is violent, he beat me and threatened to kill me, I have a restraining order on him, I fear for my life. I want a CCW permit, but my sheriff says that the threats don't warrant a CCW permit. My attorney told me that my restraining order is only a defense against carrying without a ccw. I still can get arrested.

HI, I'm Barry Bailbondsman: I go and track down guys who skip bail. Yes I can carry when on the job, but off the job I can't get a CCW permit even though violent felons threaten to get me.

We are responsible for getting 90 percent of people who skip bail.

All we need to do is have people speak for say 15 to 20 seconds, One to two lines, then the next witness.

Hi, I'm Joe Taxpayer: I'm very concerned with all the class action lawsuits that will happen if we keep the law the same. It is fiscally irresponsible not to act.

Hi, I'm a Gov worker: We are being asked to sacrifice. I'm supposed to take pay and benefit cuts because the sheriffs want to protect their "political cash machines".

The hearings a videotaped, we can get copies of the hearings and post them.
The MSM may black us out, but that doesn't mean we won't get the info out.

We get a copy of the video, we post it and we see it go out.

If armed self defense is something you care about, please try your best to be at the hearings, even if you don't talk, numbers count.

Everybody who shows is worth at least 10 handwritten letters. Each handwritten letter probably represents at least 1000 voters.

If we had 100 people show up, if would show that we speak for at least a voting block of over 1 million people. If we outdid Orange county, Sacramento would freak.

Let's make them freak:eek:

Nicki

TheBundo
04-04-2009, 12:41 PM
Real Estate agents, mostly female, have applied and been turned down. They have to go into foreclosed properties to show the homes and/or scope them out beforehand. It can be dangerous, as there are sometimes squatters, angry ex-homeowners, thieves (sometimes tearing open the walls to get the copper pipes and wire), etc. I face this as well, as a contractor who has to make repairs, not just to single-family homes, to to giant empty buildings with dozens of condos which have been hit multiple times.

KylaGWolf
04-04-2009, 2:11 PM
Niki as someone who has survived abuse (more mental than physical) I would definitely say there is a need for the equal granting of CCWs problem is I freeze when i have to speak in public. Not to mention I live at the wrong end of the state now. times like this I still wished I lived in north cali, although I don't miss bay area summers. I agree though that putting a face to the bill might have a better effect than just a bill.

I also fear you are right that this bill is not going to pass but we can remain hopeful that by some miracle that it does pass. Yeah I know its a dream that won't come true at least for now.

nicki
04-04-2009, 2:45 PM
I also fear you are right that this bill is not going to pass but we can remain hopeful that by some miracle that it does pass. Yeah I know its a dream that won't come true at least for now.

It is a dream that will come true if we act. My reason why I am so hot on this is because we can start momentum.

We will get not just CCW, but other things as well once we have incoporation of the 2nd amendment.

The problem is that is the court of law, what we do the hearing for is the court of public opinion.

When we make a show of force in Sacramento, we will help those in Orange country and we will help those other counties by default.

The only reason we will lose this battle is if we give up. If we show strong leadership, people will follow.

People are tired of special privileges for the elite, they are tired of authoritarian sheriffs, they are tired of their government servants and their garbage.

The CCW issue opens up a the Pandora's box on other issues, once we open the box, we need to run with it, not let up.

When we have a great hearing, we can shame many gun owners into action.

What AB357 will do is open the door to get more counties to move toward equal issue before they are forced to court orders.

Taxpayers will be pissed and will want heads when it turns out that the lawsuits that they will have to pay for could have been completely avoided if the sheriff and the county supervisors had acted in a responsible way.

My hope is our efforts for AB357 will help move both Orange and San Diego counties toward shall issue without the need for court battles.

If the sheriff of Orange county called a public conference, said that she re evaluate her positions and that she was wrong and then instituted a no BS shall issue policy that made things even better than things were under Mike Corona, she might be able to save her political hide.

Nicki

Window_Seat
04-04-2009, 4:23 PM
Is it possible that maybe CGN could get Suzanna Gratia Hupp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozwfy6SR2g)? I know that this could be too short of notice for her to attend & testify. I could be wrong, if I am feel free to correct me, but wasn't she very instrumental in getting TX to go SICCW?

Erik.

Electricboy
04-04-2009, 4:42 PM
Nicki,
our sheriff here in mendocino county is at all the club dinners encouraging CCW. if you get me some info to approach him with he may be willing to go to the hearings.

ilbob
04-07-2009, 1:11 PM
Can't there be a case also made where ccw or off-duty cop basically stopped killing spree vs what happened at Binghamton and others.
Nope. You seem to think they care whether you live or die. By and large they don't.

WebMoskal
04-07-2009, 1:39 PM
Yes, true. The "equal" rights issue is much better angle.

vantage
04-13-2009, 2:22 PM
I agree that I would like to see more arguments about the lack of equal rights in the application of CCW permits. The fact that sheriffs have unfettered discretion is the definition of arbitrary, that combined with testimony about the type of persons who are often granted permits as favors should curry some support as well.

nicki
04-13-2009, 2:31 PM
There was some confusion that the bill may have been pulled.

I was given bad info from GOC. Bill is still going to be heard, but problem is Knight's office still hasn't locked in gameplan.

We are in limbo, I wish I had more to say, but don't.

Nicki

KylaGWolf
04-13-2009, 9:06 PM
Nicki understand completely about it being in limbo they probably won't know till a day or so before. I seriously considered flying up there I really did but the HK won....lol. I even found some good info for you to use for facts on sexual assaults.
http://www.calcasa.org/stat/CALCASA_Stat_2008.pdf
This fact alone is a scary one: Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned

http://www.ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/preliminarys/jj08/jj08.pdf

has some interesting stats such as:
HOMICIDE – The willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by another. Homicide includes murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.
The number of homicides reported during the first six months of 2008 increased 1.7 percent when compared to the same period in 2007 (from 820 to 834). Thirty-six agencies reported increases in homicides (up 118). Counts for the remaining 48 agencies remained the same or decreased in number (down 104). This resulted in a net increase of 14 homicides.

FORCIBLE RAPE – The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Assaults or attempts to commit rape by force or threat of force are included.
The number of reported forcible rapes increased 2.5 percent during the first six months of 2008 when compared to the same period in 2007 (from 2,748 to 2,818). Forty-one agencies reported increases in forcible rape (up 315). The remaining forty-three agencies stayed the same or reported a decrease in forcible rape crimes (down 245). This resulted in a net increase of 70 forcible rapes.

Although we both know that rapes aren't reported as much as they would like to tout the numbers.

And the good one FBI page with specific numbers. I brought up the California page numbers :)

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2008prelim/table_4al-ca.html

tango-52
04-14-2009, 6:38 AM
I was given bad info from GOC. ...Nicki
Imagine that.

update - Yesterday the bill was revised to make it Shall Issue for Chiefs too. Still slated for the 21st to be heard in the Public Safety Committee.

lioneaglegriffin
04-14-2009, 1:06 PM
Imagine that.

update - Yesterday the bill was revised to make it Shall Issue for Chiefs too. Still slated for the 21st to be heard in the Public Safety Committee.

oh good i was worried about that for a while because chief Bratton isnt any better than Baca.