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View Full Version : Volunteer registration... Have a q about bringing in off list handguns?


GMONEY
04-03-2009, 12:17 PM
Can a buyer X who has residence in another state buy off list handguns then bring them into CA give them to Y and then Y does a volunteer registration on it? Is there any possible way for this to work?

ke6guj
04-03-2009, 12:22 PM
No, that would be a violation of state law. YOu can't transfer a firearm in CA without doing a PPT, with some exceptions for intrafamily, 50+year-old long guns, etc

And federal law as well for an out-of-state resident to transfer a firearm to a resident of another state without using an FFL in the recipient's state.


Currently there is no way for seller X to get a non-rosterd handgun to buyer Y unless he is his grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild. NOw, if the handgun can be configured into a roster-exempt catagory, then it could be transfered through a dealer.

CGF is looking into the possible underground regulation that prevents seller X and buyer Y from doing a legal PPT at a dealer.

bwiese
04-03-2009, 12:26 PM
Can a buyer X who has residence in another state
buy off list handguns then bring them into CA give them to Y and then
Y does a volunteer registration on it? Is there any possible way for this
to work?

Your situation above represents multiple crimes:

- the non-CA resident crossing state lines and selling to a CA person
without CA FFL;

- the CA person acquiring a gun from a non-FFL without any exemption
(intrafamily, inheritance/probate, etc.)

VOLUNTARY REGISTRATION IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR USING A CA FFL.

Now, a non-CA person should - in theory - be able to drive to CA and PPT a non-Rostered handgun to a CA resident but the DROS entry system requires a CA ID (and this appars to be an underground regulation since PPT law does not specify residency requirement for seller). If DOJ does not acquiesce in this, we expect to challenge (and win) this.

For now, that non-CA person would have to *move* to CA (get ID) and then execute a PPT with the CA buyer.

GMONEY
04-03-2009, 12:37 PM
Now, a non-CA person should - in theory - be able to drive to CA and PPT a non-Rostered handgun to a CA resident but the DROS entry system requires a CA ID (and this appars to be an underground regulation since PPT law does not specify residency requirement for seller). If DOJ does not acquiesce in this, we expect to challenge (and win) this.

For now, that non-CA person would have to *move* to CA (get ID) and then execute a PPT with the CA buyer.

I assume their is no way to execute the said example then?

DDT
04-03-2009, 12:40 PM
I assume their is no way to execute the said example then?

They could put the firearm in their will and then commit suicide. That might be a bit extreme for a handgun purchase though.

Untamed1972
04-03-2009, 3:29 PM
What if seller X has dual state residency (say CA and AZ). Seller X buys hand gun in AZ with a legal AZ ID. Then brings gun to CA and registers said gun with the required new resident registration form/fee with DOJ. THEN, does PPT to buyer Y?

bwiese
04-03-2009, 3:30 PM
What if seller X has dual state residency (say CA and AZ). Seller X buys hand gun in AZ with a legal AZ ID. Then brings gun to CA and registers said gun with the required new resident registration form/fee with DOJ. THEN, does PPT to buyer Y?

That would be OK providing he truly has dual residency.

(And providing he's not doing it for a business and just occasionally sells the odd gun).

Untamed1972
04-03-2009, 3:39 PM
That would be OK providing he truly has dual residency.

(And providing he's not doing it for a business and just occasionally sells the odd gun).

If seller X has legal ID in both states then it should all be good right?

Librarian
04-03-2009, 5:21 PM
If seller X has legal ID in both states then it should all be good right?

Aaaaah, probably. It's hard to be definite because I don't know what every state requires to establish 'residency'; it does seem to be the case that having a valid state ID is associated with residency in that state, but I can't say that's enough.

For California, residence is in Government Code:

Quote:
243. Every person has, in law, a residence.

244. In determining the place of residence the following rules
shall be observed:
(a) It is the place where one remains when not called elsewhere
for labor or other special or temporary purpose, and to which he or
she returns in seasons of repose.
(b) There can only be one residence.
(c) A residence cannot be lost until another is gained.
(d) The residence of the parent with whom an unmarried minor child
maintains his or her place of abode is the residence of such
unmarried minor child.
(e) The residence of an unmarried minor who has a parent living
cannot be changed by his or her own act.
(f) The residence can be changed only by the union of act and
intent.
(g) A married person shall have the right to retain his or her
legal residence in the State of California notwithstanding the legal
residence or domicile of his or her spouse. That looks like one residence IN CALIFORNIA, since we know it is possible to be a resident of several states simultaneously.

Election code is related, but different - and contradictory!: 349. (a) "Residence" for voting purposes means a person's domicile.

(b) The domicile of a person is that place in which his or her
habitation is fixed, wherein the person has the intention of
remaining, and to which, whenever he or she is absent, the person has
the intention of returning. At a given time, a person may have only
one domicile.
(c) The residence of a person is that place in which the person's
habitation is fixed for some period of time, but wherein he or she
does not have the intention of remaining. At a given time, a person
may have more than one residence.I'm pretty sure Election Code 'domicile' is Government Code's 'residence', but gotta love the consistency!

jnojr
04-03-2009, 5:22 PM
What you need is someone with an "immediate family member" (son/daughter, parent, I think grandparent/grandchild) in another state to buy the gun. That person sends it to an FFL in CA for their relation to pick up (intra-familial transfer, no waiting period, exempt from drop-test law), and then do a PPT with that person. Of course, you'd have to find an FFL who would care what the law says... most would probably reject such a transfer out-of-hand, being afraid it was somehow illegal and would land them in prison and result in the loss of their FFL.