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View Full Version : NYC rampage - any mention of type of weapon


natasha69
04-03-2009, 10:26 AM
front page of www.cnn.com

anyone heard what type of weapon was used (pistol / rifle / AW / etc?)

DarkHorse
04-03-2009, 10:37 AM
A yahoo! report by AP mentioned 2 handguns were found at the scene, and that the shooter had a "high-powered" rifle. Whatever that means.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hostage_shooting

Sleepy1988
04-03-2009, 10:38 AM
@#*!, what is this, the fifth of sixth one in two weeks?! I'm almost compelled to put a tinfoil hat on.

:TFH:

Nevermore
04-03-2009, 10:44 AM
I always wondered about that phrase. Is there such thing as a 'low-powered rifle'? I mean, is there a rifle that fires a .30-30 round that only bruises people?

Joe
04-03-2009, 10:50 AM
it just makes it more dramatic. Its like when they say a "high power, semi-automatic, illegal, millitary assault weapon ar-15 was found at the scene"

sfwdiy
04-03-2009, 10:56 AM
Gee, it's too bad NY didn't have some stricter gun control laws, this might not have happened.

I mean, uh, wait a minute....

They prosecute you for illegally discharging a weapon if you fart in that state.

--B

eighteenninetytwo
04-03-2009, 11:00 AM
This will speed upi the anticipated law changes that have been planned. The only bright side I can see (and this is really clutching at straws I give you) is that we here in CA will be less effected by a change in laws because they;re likely to bring in laws similar to ours across the board.

elenius
04-03-2009, 11:08 AM
Whatever weapon it actually was, I bet they will soon be saying "AK-47" on the news.

1BigPea
04-03-2009, 11:12 AM
First thing that came to my mind when I heard the story break is if that if NY was more lenient with issuing CCW maybe someone could have stopped this. Of course, you will never hear that play out in the media.

Full Clip
04-03-2009, 11:12 AM
Huh, someone ticked off after being denied a green card?

GJJ
04-03-2009, 11:13 AM
The State of NY helped kill those people by illegally prohibiting their right to concealed carry.

rtlltj
04-03-2009, 11:14 AM
High powered rifle is anything more than a Red Rider when it comes to the news.

1BigPea
04-03-2009, 11:15 AM
The State of NY helped kill those people by illegally prohibiting their right to concealed carry.

My though's exactly.

Sleepy1988
04-03-2009, 11:16 AM
The State of NY helped kill those people by illegally prohibiting their right to concealed carry.

Sorry, I would have to disagree. This seems just as asinine as blaming the gun(s) instead of the person who was wielding it or them.

The man who shot those people killed them, and no one else.

AKman
04-03-2009, 11:34 AM
Whatever weapon it actually was, I bet they will soon be saying "Fully automatic AK-47 that was purchased through a gun show loophole" on the news.

Fixed it.

grahlaika
04-03-2009, 11:36 AM
MSNBC just said there have been conflicting reports about the types of weapons used, so they won't report anything concrete until they have an official report. Sounds like responsible reporting to me.

edwardm
04-03-2009, 11:36 AM
A true and valid point. But I look at carry permits like safety features in modern cars. They won't stop a drunk from getting behind the wheel and causing a wreck, but they may very well mean the difference between a carload of bodies and a carload of survivors.



Sorry, I would have to disagree. This seems just as asinine as blaming the gun(s) instead of the person who was wielding it or them.

The man who shot those people killed them, and no one else.

Matt C
04-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Sorry, I would have to disagree. This seems just as asinine as blaming the gun(s) instead of the person who was wielding it or them.

The man who shot those people killed them, and no one else.

Hmm, so by your logic if I tie you up and leave you defenseless in an alley and some psychopath comes along and kills you, I had nothing to do with it? After all only that guy killed you.

bulgron
04-03-2009, 11:57 AM
@#*!, what is this, the fifth of sixth one in two weeks?! I'm almost compelled to put a tinfoil hat on.

:TFH:

I've been wondering about the recent spate of shootings. Mostly, I think it's due to the crappy economy and people feeling as if they're up against a brick wall financially. And if they aren't up against a brick wall, they feel as if they're hanging on by their fingertips.

It doesn't help that the press and even the President are walking around telling everyone that the economy is so bad that we're all going to die. (Well, they don't put it in those words, obviously, but that's the emotional gist of it.)

Just from what little I know about this particular story, I'm willing to bet good money that the shooter is without a job, has not been able to find another job, and decided to blame immigrants for his economic misfortunes.

These sort of things tend to cluster because when one guy shoots up a bunch of people, the next unhinged fellow is likely to look at all the press coverage and say, "Yes! Yes! I too can go out in a blaze of glory! My death can have meaning! I can fight the good fight against those who threaten my community and die in a noble and glorious way!"

An improved economy will fix things so that there won't be any more shooters. At least for a while.

A press that doesn't give massive public attention to shooters would also help to resolve the problem.

Gun control, obviously, will do nothing because weapons always have been and always will be readily available to people intent on doing mayhem.

GJJ
04-03-2009, 12:00 PM
NY State was the killer's partner in this murder. NY State disarmed the people, the shooter fired the gun.

If I hold your arms behind your back while my buddy takes your wallet, me and my buddy are both criminals.

dfletcher
04-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Gee, it's too bad NY didn't have some stricter gun control laws, this might not have happened.

I mean, uh, wait a minute....

They prosecute you for illegally discharging a weapon if you fart in that state.
--B

I'm having Big Nate's barbeque today - they might actually be able to make that charge stick. :yes:

MrSigmaDOT40
04-03-2009, 12:42 PM
@#*!, what is this, the fifth of sixth one in two weeks?! I'm almost compelled to put a tinfoil hat on.

:TFH:

I Soooo want to say that this is some type of CIA Operation (all the shootings) or something like that. Anti's are getting a lot of fuel right now off these shootings and the mexican drug BS. But we are getting a lot of fuel because all thee dead people could be alive with their 2A rights un-infringed.

Hoop
04-03-2009, 1:17 PM
I've been wondering about the recent spate of shootings. Mostly, I think it's due to the crappy economy and people feeling as if they're up against a brick wall financially. And if they aren't up against a brick wall, they feel as if they're hanging on by their fingertips.

It doesn't help that the press and even the President are walking around telling everyone that the economy is so bad that we're all going to die. (Well, they don't put it in those words, obviously, but that's the emotional gist of it.)


Lots of people losing lots of money right now. Some people take a bankruptcy in stride, others don't.

Out of all the people I know, I can count on one hand how many are doing "well" right now - ie employed, bills covered, not worried about getting fired.

However I'm willing to bet this guy is a different case, either mental or perhaps he didn't pass his citizenship exam/family was denied entry to the US, that sort of thing.

shark92651
04-03-2009, 1:20 PM
Just watched a live press conference on the shooting, I was working while it was on but I'm pretty sure they are now saying he used handguns. Where do these early report of "high power rifle" come from? Wishful thinking on the part of the media and the authorities?

Edit: Yep confirmed here - 9mm and .45 handguns
http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/binghamton.hostage.shooting.2.975228.html

mk19
04-03-2009, 1:22 PM
This really pisses me off, what is going on with all these people going around shooting people. It is not like our rights are not already under attack, and this stuff is going to bring in more heat and un-needed scrutiny over 2A issues.

stormy_clothing
04-03-2009, 1:36 PM
from security cams outside the building

http://media.monstersandcritics.com/galleries/1252529/0138560650085.jpg

yellowfin
04-03-2009, 1:40 PM
This really pisses me off, what is going on with all these people going around shooting people. It is not like our rights are not already under attack, and this stuff is going to bring in more heat and un-needed scrutiny over 2A issues. There are tens of thousands of successful defense incidents with firearms that are deliberately de-emphasized. That is as much or more of the problem. People are killed by prescription drugs almost every day but people are able to grasp that such is not the norm. Ditto with cars and other sources of injury and death. It is a vastly accepted arguement with just about everyone that the tiny risks and few and far between deaths caused by things that are otherwise useful that outlying, nontypical side effects do not merit shunning the beneficial things themselves.

wash
04-03-2009, 1:46 PM
I don't want to spoil the party but I think he went to an imigration center, they probably were not citizens I don't think they have a right to keep and bare arms.

SmokinMr2
04-03-2009, 2:10 PM
Mayor Matthew Ryan initially said the gunman had a high-powered rifle but law-enforcement sources later told NBC that he had actually used two handguns.

I'd assume the Mayor has an agenda, or is just an idiot...

Gator Monroe
04-03-2009, 2:29 PM
@#*!, what is this, the fifth of sixth one in two weeks?! I'm almost compelled to put a tinfoil hat on.

:TFH:

Imagine how huge the drumbeat will be by end of summer for more firearm restrictions (AWB) IF THIS PACE KEEPS UP ! (eVEN bLUE dOG dEMS WILL ABANDON THE 2a ):TFH:

yellowfin
04-03-2009, 3:00 PM
It does seem all so eerily convenient, doesn't it?

Saigon1965
04-03-2009, 3:03 PM
LOL - The best -

from security cams outside the building

http://media.monstersandcritics.com/galleries/1252529/0138560650085.jpg

EZ G
04-03-2009, 3:15 PM
There are tens of thousands of successful defense incidents with firearms that are deliberately de-emphasized. That is as much or more of the problem. People are killed by prescription drugs almost every day but people are able to grasp that such is not the norm. Ditto with cars and other sources of injury and death. It is a vastly accepted arguement with just about everyone that the tiny risks and few and far between deaths caused by things that are otherwise useful that outlying, nontypical side effects do not merit shunning the beneficial things themselves.

Kind of like drunk driving. No one would ever get on board with banning all cars to prevent drunk driving accidents. They seem to have no problem ignoring logic and applying that screwed up logic to guns though.

I think I read the statistic that 97 % of lawfully purchased/owned guns are NEVER used in a crime. I wonder what the statistic is for drunk driving?

glennsche
04-03-2009, 3:25 PM
The State of NY helped kill those people by illegally prohibiting their right to concealed carry.

if the people who were killed at the office were non-citizens, would they even have been allowed to own, much less conceal carry?

i confess being a born citizen i'm not familiar with the rules surrounding Conceal carry permits, but i would imagine even in states where they're liberally distributed this particular group would have a hard time being able to participate.

fresnohunter
04-03-2009, 3:32 PM
Drudge report lists the weapons as a 9mm and a 45.

Thrasher416
04-03-2009, 4:41 PM
"Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags. "

I think that police search was the source of the mayor's "high powered rifle" comment.

Full Article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hostage_shooting

Smokeybehr
04-03-2009, 4:49 PM
Mayor Matthew Ryan initially said the gunman had a high-powered rifle but law-enforcement sources later told NBC that he had actually used two handguns.

I'd assume the Mayor has an agenda, or is just an idiot...

The Gov'na was also full of BS and was a hair away from throwing down the Gun Control card during the news conference.

10fcp
04-03-2009, 5:23 PM
Excellent piece from John Lott on today's killings in another "gun free zone."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, “This home is a gun-free zone”? But that is what all these places did.

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/03/gun-free-zones-are-a-magnet-for-attacks-like-the-tragedy-in-binghampton/

fred40
04-03-2009, 5:47 PM
if the people who were killed at the office were non-citizens, would they even have been allowed to own, much less conceal carry?

i confess being a born citizen i'm not familiar with the rules surrounding Conceal carry permits, but i would imagine even in states where they're liberally distributed this particular group would have a hard time being able to participate.

how about the workers? shouldnt they be immigration officers in there? Are they allowed to carry?

CABilly
04-03-2009, 5:52 PM
@#*!, what is this, the fifth of sixth one in two weeks?! I'm almost compelled to put a tinfoil hat on.

:TFH:

Catherine Austin Fitts (http://solari.com/) is a credible (based on everything I've read of hers and about her) person who has suggested these things are not just random acts of violence.

ETA - She's also been the target of a concerted government smear campaign surrounding her work parallel to the Dark Alliance scandal. Her POV is always interesting.

TKM
04-03-2009, 6:44 PM
Matt Bracken wrote "Enemies Foreign and Domestic". It's a good read although at first it seems somewhat unlikely. Kind of a what if/worst case scenario.


It's rapidly becoming more plausible.

He's one of the good guys and I recommend his books to the Calguns bunch. (I think he's one of us too.}

remington
04-03-2009, 6:50 PM
Anderson Cooper 360 reported it was two handguns and a "satchel of ammo". The guns were identified as a one 9mm and one .45. This could change, but Im watching the news while reading the thread.

Remy

croc4
04-03-2009, 7:01 PM
The thing that really pisses me off besides this total nut case, is that I read that the police waited an hour before entering the building, So someone that could have been saved, possibly bleed to death because of the delay. Now I understand that you wouldn't want to go charging in, but waiting a whole hour?, that just seems screwy, the same thing happened at columbine, the cops waited while they heard gun shots.

Again I understand the self preservation aspect for the cops but what the hell?, how many could have been saved if a fully armed squad in full body armor had cleared the building in both cases in a timely manor?

makes me sick,

Croc4

McCrown
04-03-2009, 9:40 PM
Reading about stuff like this makes me start thinking about carrying to work, even though no weapons are allowed. In a building like where I work at it would be bad. The saying rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 starts making more sense everyday.

remington
04-03-2009, 9:53 PM
I read every post on the link, I suggest that every calgunner go and "recomend" some of the post, which are very supportive of the 2A. By doing so, they will show up "Most Reccomended" which is right now is about anti 2A as I have ever seen. California aint looking to bad now....

http://community.nytimes.com/article...stage.html?s=2

Satex
04-03-2009, 10:00 PM
front page of www.cnn.com

anyone heard what type of weapon was used (pistol / rifle / AW / etc?)

Why do you ask what kind of weapon was used? How come you don't as "what kind of sick bastard did this?"

yellowfin
04-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Why do you ask what kind of weapon was used? How come you don't as "what kind of sick bastard did this?"

The concern is how much further this screws us to the effect of being forcibly disarmed (actually almost all of us here are for most of the day anyway thanks to the no issue sheriffs) and thus potentially ending up just like the 13 people in this story.

That aside, this whole thing about the stolen ID really has my attention. The killer killed him too, beforehand? I was thinking that maybe the ID was stolen so they could buy the pistols, but NY is a lot more complicated than that because in NY you've gotta get pickup tickets from the county clerk to receive pistols you buy...kinda a more bureacratic way of doing the 10 day wait here. Basically this would be like stealing a getaway car, but there was no getaway? This really does seem like an elaborate hit job, deliberately to create a distraction, a perfect crime if whoever wanted it to happen purely to make a scene.

Dark&Good
04-04-2009, 12:00 AM
This stinks.
For example, I look at this:
"Initial reports suggested Voong had recently been let go from IBM. But a person at IBM said there was no record of a Jiverly Voong ever working there.
The police chief would not confirm the name of the dead man with the ammunition satchel, saying authorities were still trying to establish with certainty that he was the gunman.
"We have no idea what the motive is," Zikuski said.
He said the suspected gunman "was no stranger" to the community center and may have gone there to take a class.
A woman who answered the phone at a listing for Henry D. Voong said she was Jiverly Voong's sister but would not give her name. She said her brother had been in the country for 28 years and had citizenship.
"I think there's a misunderstanding over here because I want to know, too," she said.
Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags.
Police left the Voong home shortly before 8 p.m., soon after four people arrived by car and went into the house. It wasn't clear who they were, but they promptly turned out the lights."
...and I think this:
False identity... "cheap" immigrant lives... who can gain something worthwhile by doing this?... four trained guys soon after the police... there must be the same guys behind this, who want to disarm the population.

mcubed4130
04-04-2009, 12:25 AM
how about the workers? shouldnt they be immigration officers in there? Are they allowed to carry?

I'm thinking an arbitrary Liberal Extremist organization like - American Civic Association, Inc. (who were the people attacked by our nutcase) - don't get any special privileges to have guns - nor would they ask for them.

http://www.unitedwaybroome.org/pages/Member%20Agencies/American_Civic_Association.htm

-M3

Haplo
04-04-2009, 9:55 AM
Two handguns were used, a 9mm Beretta and a .45 Beretta.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/nyregion/05shoot.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=nyregion

Vic
04-04-2009, 1:56 PM
My local news reported the guns as "heavy caliber pistols"


Yeah........

natasha69
04-04-2009, 1:59 PM
CNN seems to be focusing on gun violence like they have it as their personal agenda.

why not focus on immigrant rape cases. or illegal pot farming in CA. or the criminal histories of all our congressman and women?

frequency of this reporting has shot up.

i'm very sad that these incidents have occurred, as are all of us. i just am not loving the news media pushing it as their own personal agenda....

natasha69
04-04-2009, 2:07 PM
Why do you ask what kind of weapon was used? How come you don't as "what kind of sick bastard did this?"

because he was a sick bastard. i don't need to know what flavor of sick bastard.

the incidents are all horrible, and my heartfelt sympathy extends out to the victims and their families.

this is the political forum, so i'm wondering about the political fallout of this case, and others that have happened (or reported on heavily). seems pretty tinfoil hat time with the AG saying he wanted to make the AWB a focus, the 60 or saying no, DOD issuing a no excess brass to be sold to ammo suppliers (rather be destroyed), CNN focusing on the US being the arms supplier for the mexican drug war, and then finally these shootings happening much more often as of late. or was the gun violence always there and CNN is just making it front page to push an anti-2A agenda. the question deserves some thought.

X-NewYawker
04-04-2009, 2:36 PM
FYI Binghampton is like a five hour drive away from New York City. It is a rural/suburban area that the State college is at.

X-NewYawker
04-04-2009, 2:37 PM
It is so depressing to hear the reporters at all the press conferences thee last two weeks:

What kind of gun?
Where did he get the gun?

Midian
04-04-2009, 2:46 PM
You're going to see a real real heavy media push for more gun control because of all the recent shootings.

In the wake of the current financial disaster and the formation of world currency and the open talk of world government, total disarmament attempts can not be far behind.

Incidents like this and the one in Pittsburgh today are going to just be huge tentpoles for the circus that is to come.

natasha69
04-04-2009, 5:38 PM
FYI Binghampton is like a five hour drive away from New York City. It is a rural/suburban area that the State college is at.

i realized that. but thats why i left the original post with the title it has. because that is what CNN had initially.

Sleepy1988
04-05-2009, 7:44 PM
global Kommunist are determined to disarm the worlds civilian populations, and make the U.S. Constitution void via judicial activism, U.N. charters and treaties, you don't need a tinfoil hat to believe that.:TFH::eek:

I have no trouble believing that, just a few days ago Gordon Brown, the current Prime Minister of the UK said "the new world order" is beginning to take shape. The Chinese are currently calling for a global currency to replace national currencies.

Sunwolf
04-06-2009, 6:41 AM
I don't want to spoil the party but I think he went to an imigration center, they probably were not citizens I don't think they have a right to keep and bare arms.

Everybody has a right to bare arms!

Sunwolf
04-06-2009, 6:42 AM
Bare legs too!