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C123K_LoadMaster
03-31-2009, 4:49 PM
What if you owned a rifle that was defined by generics characteristics as an Assault Weapon in 1999. In 2000 you registered this rifle under SB 23, but now would like to remove the generic characteristics that make the rifle an Assault Weapon. I see there is a NOTICE OF NO LONGER IN POSSESSION FORM available on the DOJ website, but none of the options under (D) DISPOSITION address this type of change. Has anyone here had to address this situation before?

Scotty
03-31-2009, 4:55 PM
Why would you want to do that for?

edwardm
03-31-2009, 4:58 PM
See 11 CCR 5473, "Voluntary Cancellations". It outlines the process you may use to unregister a by-features AW.

http://tinyurl.com/cyzgno



What if you owned a rifle that was defined by generics characteristics as an Assault Weapon in 1999. In 2000 you registered this rifle under SB 23, but now would like to remove the generic characteristics that make the rifle an Assault Weapon. I see there is a NOTICE OF NO LONGER IN POSSESSION FORM available on the DOJ website, but none of the options under (D) DISPOSITION address this type of change. Has anyone here had to address this situation before?

C123K_LoadMaster
03-31-2009, 5:09 PM
Thank you. That answers my question perfectly.

See 11 CCR 5473, "Voluntary Cancellations". It outlines the process you may use to unregister a by-features AW.

http://tinyurl.com/cyzgno

bwiese
03-31-2009, 5:11 PM
Linky above seems not to work... I'll quote the CCR here from DOJ website (under Regulations, Chapter 39: Assault Weapons):


11 CCR 5473 Voluntary Cancellations

(a) The Department will accept voluntary cancellations for assault
weapons that are no longer possessed by the registrant. Cancellations
will also be accepted for assault weapons, defined and registered pursuant
to Penal Code section 12276.1, that have been modified or reconfigured to
no longer meet the assault weapon definition. Cancellation requests must
be signed, dated, and provide the following information:
(1) Registrant's full name, telephone number, and current address;
make, model, and serial number of the assault weapon; and the DOJ
assault weapon registration number (as indicated on the registration
confirmation letter provided to the registrant at the time of registration).
If the DOJ assault weapon registration number is unknown, the request
must be notarized.(b) After confirmation of the information provided on the cancellation
request, the Department will permanently delete the registration for the
specified assault weapon(s). If there are no remaining assault weapons
registered to the individual, all personal information regarding the
registrant will also be deleted from the assault weapon data base. The
Department will mail confirmation of the cancellation to the address provided
on the request.


Note the phrase in "(b)" above, "After confirmation of the information provided"
may lead to contact by DOJ agents seeking to view the weapon to validate lack of AW configuration.

This may or may not lead to drama you don't want. Perhaps the AW reg will not be cancelled if no agent visit allowed, and there's really little reason why any gunnie should EVER voluntarily let a gov't agent into his home/life. PERIOD.

We need to keep as many AWs on the registry as possible to maintain administrative overhead. The more folks w/a variety of reg'd AWs there are, the more opportunties for challenge can/do exist in the near future.

I do not see why you'd want to unreg a reg'd AW anyway. As a Category 3 AW already, you can remove sufficient evil features and treat it like a non-AW for gunsmithing and transport purposes.

[While this is fairly readily inferrable from some areas of the DOJ AW FAQ (perhaps older material not up anymore), it was stated directly to me by DOJ FD Dir Randy Rossi and Asst Dir/Dept AG Tim Rieger in 2004 at a "Meet the DOJ" dinner meeting. Don Kilmer and former ATF agent (now lawyer) Jess Guy were also in attendance and probably remember this exchange, and I'd bet it may have been surreptitiously recorded as well.]

C123K_LoadMaster
03-31-2009, 5:12 PM
You might want to sell the rifle to someone in CA. It would also remove the requirement to use a dealer with an AW Permit to ship the rifle out of state.


Why would you want to do that for?

C123K_LoadMaster
03-31-2009, 5:20 PM
Bill,

What if you want to sell the rifle to someone in CA with the generic AW characteristics removed? What do you recommend then?

Linky above seems not to work... I'll quote the CCR here from DOJ website (under Regulations, Chapter 39: Assault Weapons):

11 CCR 5473 Voluntary Cancellations

(a) The Department will accept voluntary cancellations for assault
weapons that are no longer possessed by the registrant. Cancellations
will also be accepted for assault weapons, defined and registered pursuant
to Penal Code section 12276.1, that have been modified or reconfigured to
no longer meet the assault weapon definition. Cancellation requests must
be signed, dated, and provide the following information:
(1) Registrant's full name, telephone number, and current address;
make, model, and serial number of the assault weapon; and the DOJ
assault weapon registration number (as indicated on the registration
confirmation letter provided to the registrant at the time of registration).
If the DOJ assault weapon registration number is unknown, the request
must be notarized.(b) After confirmation of the information provided on the cancellation
request, the Department will permanently delete the registration for the
specified assault weapon(s). If there are no remaining assault weapons
registered to the individual, all personal information regarding the
registrant will also be deleted from the assault weapon data base. The
Department will mail confirmation of the cancellation to the address provided
on the request.
Note the phrase in "(b)" above, "After confirmation of the information provided"
may lead to contact by DOJ agents seeking to view the weapon to validate lack of AW configuration.

This may or may not lead to drama you don't want. Perhaps the AW reg will not be cancelled if no agent visit allowed, and there's really little reason why any gunnie should EVER voluntarily let a gov't agent into his home/life. PERIOD.

We need to keep as many AWs on the registry as possible to maintain administrative overhead. The more folks w/a variety of reg'd AWs there are, the more opportunties for challenge can/do exist in the near future.

I do not see why you'd want to unreg a reg'd AW anyway. As a Category 3 AW already, you can remove sufficient evil features and treat it like a non-AW for gunsmithing and transport purposes.

[While this is fairly readily inferrable from some areas of the DOJ AW FAQ (perhaps older material not up anymore), it was stated directly to me by DOJ FD Dir Randy Rossi and Asst Dir/Dept AG Tim Rieger in 2004 at a "Meet the DOJ" dinner meeting. Don Kilmer and former ATF agent (now lawyer) Jess Guy were also in attendance and probably remember this exchange, and I'd bet it may have been surreptitiously recorded as well.]

bwiese
03-31-2009, 5:22 PM
Bill,

What if you want to sell the rifle to someone in CA with the generic AW characteristics removed? What do you recommend then?

Then you have to do the above, you should de-reg it.

But please don't - do the right thing, keep it!

CCWFacts
03-31-2009, 5:23 PM
You might want to sell the rifle to someone in CA.

How much value does a used, 10-year-old rifle have? Ok, there are a very few exotic guns that are AWs and might be desirable, but most of those are banned-by-name (like a Steyr AUG or something), so I'm guessing it something pretty boring, like an AR-15. A used 10-year-old AR-15 is of little resale value. You might get more money by selling the upper by itself and then selling all the parts from the lower as a lower-kit. That way you could keep the receiver, with the AW status, if you ever want to rebuild it, and it will be easy to sell the parts to anyone in California or anywhere else. These days so many places are out of stock of AR-15 parts you can probably sell them pretty easily. Easier than you could sell the whole rifle.

It would also remove the requirement to use a dealer with an AW Permit to ship the rifle out of state.

Again, if the rifle is not banned-by-name, you can put it into a non-AW status and then treat it like an ordinary gun. Spend $25 (or whatever it is) to get a "bullet button" fixed mag kit, put it into a legal fixed-mag configuration, and no AW permits are needed. Then you can take off the bullet button when you get it back and enjoy it as an AW. You get the best of both worlds.

(I wish I could do that but my reg'd AWs are banned by name so they are AWs even as bare receivers.)

Please don't unregister your AW unless there's some truly exceptional reason to do it. The only reason I could think of that truly makes sense if you have some really desirable gun and you need the money and you're selling it out of state. Otherwise, you would get just as much money by selling it in parts but keeping the receiver. All the other reasons are not well thought-out.

As BW says, we need to keep the registrations up. We don't need to lose any of them.

C123K_LoadMaster
03-31-2009, 5:33 PM
Actually this is a rare rifle and was only a safe queen for me.

How much value does a used, 10-year-old rifle have? Ok, there are a very few exotic guns that are AWs and might be desirable, but most of those are banned-by-name (like a Steyr AUG or something), so I'm guessing it something pretty boring, like an AR-15. A used 10-year-old AR-15 is of little resale value. You might get more money by selling the upper by itself and then selling all the parts from the lower as a lower-kit. That way you could keep the receiver, with the AW status, if you ever want to rebuild it, and it will be easy to sell the parts to anyone in California or anywhere else. These days so many places are out of stock of AR-15 parts you can probably sell them pretty easily. Easier than you could sell the whole rifle.



Again, if the rifle is not banned-by-name, you can put it into a non-AW status and then treat it like an ordinary gun. Spend $25 (or whatever it is) to get a "bullet button" fixed mag kit, put it into a legal fixed-mag configuration, and no AW permits are needed. Then you can take off the bullet button when you get it back and enjoy it as an AW. You get the best of both worlds.

(I wish I could do that but my reg'd AWs are banned by name so they are AWs even as bare receivers.)

Please don't unregister your AW unless there's some truly exceptional reason to do it. The only reason I could think of that truly makes sense if you have some really desirable gun and you need the money and you're selling it out of state. Otherwise, you would get just as much money by selling it in parts but keeping the receiver. All the other reasons are not well thought-out.

As BW says, we need to keep the registrations up. We don't need to lose any of them.

FS00008
03-31-2009, 5:43 PM
I still would sell something else before De-Reg'ing an RAW...

slappomatt
03-31-2009, 9:32 PM
come on out with it! what is it? lol :jump: