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Dark&Good
03-31-2009, 11:35 AM
Hi,
Do you know of laws that would prohibit the purchase of a CA-legal shotgun from, say, the Czech Republic or Italy?

domokun
03-31-2009, 11:48 AM
You need to find a vendor with an 08 FFL to import it into the country for you. This is the easiest route if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise there is a long and lengthy process that you need to go through to get a firearm into the country from outside the US.

bigstick61
03-31-2009, 11:58 AM
I think the Form is a Form 6, if I remember correctly. I was going to buy a rifle from Australia and had everything set up (you need a broker, which usually charges around 10% the value of the product, or something like that). You can get the forms on ATF's site. I actually got them from a military site, which had both the miltary and non-military importation forms (which are for cases where the FFL does not have an import license). I changed my mind when I found out a different rifle with the same type of action could be safely converted to the caliber I wanted, which was better than buying the Australian Enfield. Shipping is hard, though, as alot of carriers will not internationally ship a firearm, no matter how legal, and it costs a good couple hundred dollars in any case.

zeleny
03-31-2009, 1:00 PM
Here is my prescription:
Research comparable values. Study all relevant web pages in the foreign top level domain of your concern. In my case, an interest in the SIG P210 calls for all Kessler catalogs and price lists (http://www.kesslerauktionen.ch/Kessler_Auktion_Archiv.html). Here (http://www.google.com/search?q=SIG+%22SIG+210%22+OR+p210+OR+P-210+site:.ch&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=en&as_qdr=all&pwst=1&filter=0) is a search query composed in accordance with my interests.
Find an export agent. Your best bet for finding an agent willing and able to handle your firearms lot for export from the foreign country is online auctions. For example, the Swiss dealers selling on Gunbroker include AfA (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124026868) and swissdagger (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124111886).
Choose wisely. Generally you will have to pay for your firearms before you can apply for export and import licenses. The firearms you import must be deemed suitable for "sporting use" and attested as having remained in the country from which you are exporting them for the past five years. Only civilian firearms and foreign military firearms that qualify as curios and relics can be imported. U.S. military firearms cannot be re-imported.
Choose a U.S.-based importer. I am paying through the nose for import licenses (http://www.simpsonltd.com/import.php?osCsid=cf1b8bfbec358e00a7f55945f412e608 ) and international courier services (http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/sreply/34085/t/Bad-news-from-Switzerland-.html), but Andrew Zink and Stefan Mahrer have access to common carriers and less costly importers. Make sure that the importer that your export agents recommend will mark your gun discreetly.
Stay legal. ATF Form 6 (http://www.forms.gov/bgfPortal/docSearch.do;jsessionid=5F3BC02582EC10D3CAD155CCF9 320DBE?bId=77&dsType=sdAB&aId=+&abType=A) is only good for occasional private imports via an FFL holder, for your personal use, but no one will stop you from reselling some of your personally imported guns after a while.
Good luck. Please feel free to pose further questions and requests via email or phone.

Dark&Good
04-01-2009, 12:21 AM
So who is a 08 FFL here?

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 1:59 AM
The manufacturer said that I can order from them, so I'd say the export permit is not a problem.
The shotgun is a slug gun, fully CA-compliant (normal) shotgun, so I'd say the BATF can't hook into it.
Does import agent mean a 08 FFL?

bigstick61
04-02-2009, 2:04 AM
You can go through a broker, too, and use a normal FFL, as long as you use the Form 6. While I don't think it is an issue, I would check the country to see if imports from them are prohibited or restricted or not, and also see what the duties are, or if there are no duties that need to be paid.

zeleny
04-02-2009, 2:22 AM
The shotgun is a slug gun, fully CA-compliant (normal) shotgun, so I'd say the BATF can't hook into it.Regrettably, your say-so holds no sway over the BATF. Their authority to designate firearms as fit for sporting use is not bound by state law. In practical terms, there is no recourse from their refusal to do so.

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 2:23 AM
You can go through a broker, too, and use a normal FFL, as long as you use the Form 6. While I don't think it is an issue, I would check the country to see if imports from them are prohibited or restricted or not, and also see what the duties are, or if there are no duties that need to be paid.

broker like who?

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 3:07 AM
Regrettably, your say-so holds no sway over the BATF. Their authority to designate firearms as fit for sporting use is not bound by state law. In practical terms, there is no recourse from their refusal to do so.

If they can't find a difference compared to a US made shotgun's features, they can eat cr*p.

AaronHorrocks
04-02-2009, 8:28 AM
I once tried to buy a parts kit from another country. They said I needed an ATF Form 6.

The ATF said I needed to put the serial number of the firearm on the paperwork.

I spent several months going around in circles until I gave up.

zeleny
04-02-2009, 9:02 AM
If they can't find a difference compared to a US made shotgun's features, they can eat cr*p.That's not how this works. Imports are restricted by decree, not by statutes. There is no mechanism to challenge this decree and no power north of Waco to make the BATF eat anything unpalatable.

zeleny
04-02-2009, 9:03 AM
I once tried to buy a parts kit from another country. They said I needed an ATF Form 6.

The ATF said I needed to put the serial number of the firearm on the paperwork.

I spent several months going around in circles until I gave up.Buy a numbered gun and piggyback the spare parts on the same form. Works for me.

bigstick61
04-02-2009, 4:18 PM
broker like who?

Where do you live? There should be something near you, especially if you live near an airport or seaport or the border. I was going to use one in San Francisco. I would look up import/export brokers in your area online; that's how I found one.

zeleny
04-02-2009, 4:58 PM
In regard to licensing, ATF requires licensure of both the importer and the import itself via the ATF form 6 application (http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53303a.pdf). Of special importance on this application are items 19 through 24, which discuss release of the firearms shipment from Customs custody. Also of importance is the form 6A (http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53303a.pdf), which must be presented to Customs at the time of its entry. A licensed customs broker located at the port of entry will be able to submit the license and release documents locally. National Customs Brokers Association (http://www.ncbfaa.org/) lists local associations of individual brokers. Port of entry information is available from Customs (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/ports/). On tariff classification and duty rate of firearms, see the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (2009) (http://www.usitc.gov/tata/hts/bychapter/index.htm), SECTION XIX: Chapter 93: Arms and ammunition; parts and accessories thereof (http://hotdocs.usitc.gov/docs/tata/hts/bychapter/0901C93.pdf). Special classification and duty treatment are afforded firearms meeting the collector's interest and/or antique provisions of SECTION XXI: Chapter 97: Works of art, collectors' pieces and antiques (http://hotdocs.usitc.gov/docs/tata/hts/bychapter/0901C97.pdf). In addition to duty and applicable taxes, Customs collect user fees, as follows: MPF / Merchandise Process Fee - 0.21% of the entered value, with a $25 minimum, and a $485 maximum. HMF / Harbor Maintenance Fee - 0.125% of the entered value, no min./max., and only applied on importations via seafreight. Import brokers charge a fee for a Customs entry, plus charges for messenger services where applicable. Brokers may also charge a fee for government agency submissions, its amount depending on the complexity of the agency requirements. Additionally, a customs bond (http://www.roanoketrade.com/) will be required, either as a continuous bond for ongoing imports over a calendar year or as single entry bonds per each instance of importation.

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 10:05 PM
This sounds like the gun laws of Romania - too much hassle and time to be worth it. Or to be called "freedom".

zeleny
04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
This sounds like the gun laws of Romania - too much hassle and time to be worth it. Or to be called "freedom".It took me less than 15 minutes to fill out and fax Simpson's import form (http://www.simpsonltd.com/import.php?osCsid=60ae5670e03fef60f04f389087673796 ).

Saigon1965
04-02-2009, 10:27 PM
These folks will be able to help you - They are in SF -

http://www.highbridgearms.com/english.htm

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 10:39 PM
These folks will be able to help you - They are in SF -

http://www.highbridgearms.com/english.htm

Hey, that's cool!
I didn't know that they can import. I never saw their web page before, just bought a shotgun there.

Saigon1965
04-02-2009, 10:44 PM
Keep us posted -

Dark&Good
04-02-2009, 10:47 PM
I'll do. I'm writing an e-mail to High Bridge right now.

Jpach
04-03-2009, 1:00 AM
Wait wait wait...you CANT import a US military firearm?

zeleny
04-03-2009, 1:32 AM
Wait wait wait...you CANT import a US military firearm?Nor a foreign one, unless it is classified as a C&R.

Quiet
04-03-2009, 4:33 AM
Can only import "sporting purpose" firearms.

Thank the Gun Control Act of 1968 for the "sporting purpose" requirement for importation.