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View Full Version : Is there an anti-calguns?


mister dize
03-31-2009, 6:27 AM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

Vacaville
03-31-2009, 6:41 AM
Bizarro Calguns! Now that's a scary thought - "Look, I just traded my M1A for a bag of groceries!" Insert photo of groceries.

I just went searching and there are plenty of anti-gun sites, but the funny thing is they don't have public forums - mostly legislative agendas, make a donation, and look at all the gun violence. Maybe they don't have the popular support they would have us believe they do?

If anyone can find a forum, I'll be first in line to do some "trolling". :chris:

Colt
03-31-2009, 6:41 AM
Yeah - the Congressional Democratic Caucus.

oaklander
03-31-2009, 6:48 AM
Vacaville is correct. AFAIK, there are NO public anti-gun forums. If anyone finds one, let me know. . .

tcrpe
03-31-2009, 7:08 AM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

Yes, there is.

Its called the California State Legislature.

Soldier415
03-31-2009, 7:12 AM
Nah, they don't have the stones to make their discussions public, as they know their logic is apallingly flawed to most rational americans

7x57
03-31-2009, 7:34 AM
Vacaville is correct. AFAIK, there are NO public anti-gun forums. If anyone finds one, let me know. . .

This is interesting. A couple of possible reasons:



As vacaville said, not so much popular support. I had already started figuring this out, thanks to Howard Nemerov. He points out that if you follow the money trail, reality is essentially the opposite of the Big Lie. The anti-gun groups never discuss membership figures, because they don't have many and the money comes from foundations and other outside sources. The NRA is truly grass-roots, and has much *less* money than the anti-gun forces; they only get away with the "big gun lobby" idea because they manage to not count most of their money in the "anti" column.

Related to that is something I heard Ed Worley discuss. They simply don't have a population of passionate anti-gun people. They have a few true-believer "activists," and a fair number of rather casual supporters. They can't turn out committed ordinary people, because they don't exist in numbers.



In other words, demographically as well as economically, gun control is demonstrably something imposed from above by a few on the many. At a gut level we already knew that, but apparently it can be measured to some extent.

Hmm. OK, if they don't have discussion boards, do they have any kind of grass-roots at all? Are there local anti-gun activist groups I could join, as I can join my local NRA MC? I don't mean demonstrate or picket, I just mean meetings. Anyone ever heard of such a thing?

7x57

Cru Jones
03-31-2009, 9:43 AM
Yes, it's called the mainstream media.

yellowfin
03-31-2009, 9:46 AM
Democratic Undergound perhaps?

oaklander
03-31-2009, 9:53 AM
Are there local anti-gun activist groups I could join, as I can join my local NRA MC? I don't mean demonstrate or picket, I just mean meetings. Anyone ever heard of such a thing?

7x57

I have the name, phone and email for the local chapter rep - if you want it. . .

:43:

Pvt. Cowboy
03-31-2009, 9:55 AM
There are very few committed anti-gun activists. Their support comes from institutions that you'd typically find someone like Barack Obama associated with -- Lots of shadowy little foundations with PO Box addresses staffed by 'community organizers'.

That's why when the media needs an anti-gun talking head, it's always the same one or two people that you see: Paul Helmke, maybe that Josh Sugarmann might pop up from time to time, but usually they're off scribbling some new baloney on Huffington Post or some other 'progressive' screed site.

Most of the anti-gun liberals are all in elected or appointed office. The very few that remain post here on CalGuns pretending to be liberals and 2nd Amendment activists.

I once searched out a national-level 'Million Mom March' web forum, and found that there was exactly one 'Welcome to the MMM Forum!' post and nothing else in three years of activity before it finally got taken down. I subscribed and everything, didn't see one post. Judging by the sort of 'mothers' that I saw in a pathetic little MMM rally in downtown SF several years ago, I'm not surprised. The sort of folks who attended the rally didn't seem the computer literate type at all.

Dr Rockso
03-31-2009, 10:04 AM
Democratic Undergound perhaps?
DU has a 'guns' forum (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=118), it's almost entirely pro-gun :cool:

B Strong
03-31-2009, 4:20 PM
Bizarro Calguns! Now that's a scary thought - "Look, I just traded my M1A for a bag of groceries!" Insert photo of groceries.

I just went searching and there are plenty of anti-gun sites, but the funny thing is they don't have public forums - mostly legislative agendas, make a donation, and look at all the gun violence. Maybe they don't have the popular support they would have us believe they do?

If anyone can find a forum, I'll be first in line to do some "trolling". :chris:

It's my belief that anti-Second Amendment discussion forums don't exist because there aren't enough true believers to participate.

Howard Stern had an interesting observation about "groups" that complained about his show to the FCC - it was his belief that some "groups" were "three yentas with a copy machine."

His idea was later proven to some extent by a writer's FOIA request to the FCC for copies of complaints filed against Stern - the majority were copies of a complaint form sent out by some Family Values/Morality watch group. The writer determined that out of several thosand complaints, less than 20 were individually originated complaints (complaints with specific complaints about specific shows not referenced in the group generated complaint form)

In addition, an investigation into the individuals filing the complaints determined that some individuals not only had not filed an FCC complaint against Stern, they had never heard of him! Their names were harvested by persons unknown and signed to the complaint form generated by the protest group.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if similar tactics were used by the anti's.

JTecalo
03-31-2009, 4:32 PM
anybody have a guess on the number of antis that own guns?

serious question

dadoody
03-31-2009, 4:53 PM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

None of the anti-gun sites have an open forum, because people who are against gun ownership are also opposed to free speech and opposing viewpoints.

Jerkdog
03-31-2009, 6:38 PM
In other words, demographically as well as economically, gun control is demonstrably something imposed from above by a few on the many. At a gut level we already knew that, but apparently it can be measured to some extent.

+1. Awesomely put. :thumbsup:

7x57
03-31-2009, 7:19 PM
I have the name, phone and email for the local chapter rep - if you want it. . .


If you're serious, that's sort of tempting in a horror-show sort of way. It's entirely possible I have the ability to be polite and quiet like any newcomer checking it out. I spend a fair amount of mental effort trying to channel the thinking of these people, perhaps I should go and run some of my mental models against some data. :chris:

But oh Lord, the pain. :eek:

7x57

nick
03-31-2009, 7:26 PM
anybody have a guess on the number of antis that own guns?

serious question

At least 4 - Feinstein, Kerry, Biden, Sarah Brady.

Macadelic4
03-31-2009, 7:34 PM
Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

Response from the authority on this:

To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Well, I think we just proved Newton wrong.

wilit
03-31-2009, 8:56 PM
AR15.com is a pretty anti-cal guns forum. :p

JTecalo
03-31-2009, 9:48 PM
At least 4 - Feinstein, Kerry, Biden, Sarah Brady.

I can understand their need, being in such a dangerous, hostile public workplace environment. prob ccw'd as well.

It must take great skill to talk out both sides of your face, no wonder they get all the perks and adoration.

ETD1010
03-31-2009, 11:27 PM
I know there are a lot of anti-gun groups on Facebook, and they have a forum-type setup for discussions.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=5057142814

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=2364582895

Just the two i could find.

bombadillo
04-01-2009, 6:28 AM
I know there are a lot of anti-gun groups on Facebook, and they have a forum-type setup for discussions.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=5057142814

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=2364582895

Just the two i could find.


Come on man, look at the soaring membership of the first group and the piss poor spelling errors of the first one. There were a whopping 13 people.

The second one skyrocketed to a grand 57 members. I'd say there are more on calguns in just the riflemans forum at most any given point in the day. They've gotta do a lot better than that and it shows you the real interest versus the idiots trying to take away our freedoms. It also shows the power of the media and politicians rather than the will of the people and who is truly in control.

bombadillo
04-01-2009, 6:41 AM
Oh good god I had to join and say something. the one is some 18 year old graduated in 2008 kid who thinks he might know a little something about rights. I can't wait to see who he runs to in a time of emergency.

Kestryll
04-01-2009, 6:59 AM
Democratic Undergound perhaps?

DU has a 'guns' forum (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=118), it's almost entirely pro-gun :cool:

Yup!
Being Democrat or liberal doesn't automatically mean you're anti-gun.

CitaDeL
04-01-2009, 8:43 AM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

No, but perhaps there should be. Before you flame me, cogitate on this;

Imagine a web forum formatted like Calguns that espouses all varieties of gun control and liberty restriction- the website would be widely distributed among liberal colleges, socialist activist groups, million mommers, Brady bunchers, Obama worshipers, and other bastions of illogic, closed mindedness, and big government tyranical facism.

The posters would be allowed to excersize their first amendment to thier hearts content, provided they remain on topic. Yes, let them have their say. yes, let them have the run of the place.

Because before the first day is though, the responses from the anti-gunners to the rationale and thoughtfulness from only a few well read Calgunners, would break down into a pitched fit of TYPING ALL CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS !!!!!!!!!!!, a blizzard of profanity, and repeated posting of photos dipicting Hitler and pornography of participants attempting uncomfortable, unnatural, and improbable coitus.

I wont deny the possibility that such a site could attract an honest intellectual or two, but largely I expect anti-gunners would debate with emotion rather than facts. This would be exceedingly beneficial to our argument- exposing the rhetoric for what it is.

7x57
04-01-2009, 9:37 AM
Yup!
Being Democrat or liberal doesn't automatically mean you're anti-gun.

No, it just means that when push comes to shove you'll still vote anti-gun based on your support of the rest of the party's platform. :chris:

7x57

Curtis
04-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Oh good god I had to join...

I hope your profile picture has an evil black rife in it.

sorensen440
04-01-2009, 10:42 AM
Yes there is
http://www.senate.gov/

JDoe
04-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Here is a list of pro-control groups found on saneguns.org! :thumbsup:


http://www.saneguns.org/procontrol/index.html

Sane Guns is dedicated to providing a safe, sane and sensible approach to gun control, based on education, enforcement, licensing, registration and responsibility.

Here is their discussion site...

http://www.saneguns.org/discus/index.html

ETD1010
04-01-2009, 12:26 PM
Come on man, look at the soaring membership of the first group and the piss poor spelling errors of the first one. There were a whopping 13 people.

The second one skyrocketed to a grand 57 members. I'd say there are more on calguns in just the riflemans forum at most any given point in the day. They've gotta do a lot better than that and it shows you the real interest versus the idiots trying to take away our freedoms. It also shows the power of the media and politicians rather than the will of the people and who is truly in control.

hey, all i said, was that they existed... not that they were a powerful force to worry about. :cool:

CitaDeL
04-01-2009, 1:50 PM
Here is a list of pro-control groups found on saneguns.org! :thumbsup:


http://www.saneguns.org/procontrol/index.html



Here is their discussion site...

http://www.saneguns.org/discus/index.html

Uhm,... the most current posts are from 2002 and 2003. Not exactly a hotbed of discussion.

NIB
04-01-2009, 4:11 PM
There are lot's of anti gun people out there. They are just not as vocal or active as those of us into the RKBA. The only time they pop up is when it comes time to vote, which is usually for a democrat anyways regardless of the issue.

Sam
04-01-2009, 5:06 PM
I know there are a lot of anti-gun groups on Facebook, and they have a forum-type setup for discussions.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=5057142814

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?sid=48ff7b39269126429910f69fcecd8591&gid=2364582895

Just the two i could find.

Those facebook group descriptions sure won me over with their excellent grammar and their well thought out arguments.

What a joke.

It also seems that one of the groups was invaded and all of the pictures are actually pro-gun.

Ford8N
04-01-2009, 5:22 PM
Nah, they don't have the stones to make their discussions public, as they know their logic is apallingly flawed to most rational americans

This.

CAL.BAR
04-01-2009, 7:47 PM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

Sure THAT'S EVERYONE ELSE IN KA!! Go to any large city (LA SF SD etc.) talk openly about guns with people. If you're luck you might find mere indifference.

Radixpoint
04-01-2009, 8:22 PM
Check out this quote from the "Anti-Gun Laws" face book page:

"According to the Bureau Of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, last year 9 out 10 family members or close friends were shot dead over domestic disputes,"

That's funny, I'm sure Iwould have noticed 90% of my friends and family shooting each other.

Mitch
10-22-2009, 6:33 AM
So we all come here to talk about guns and pro-RKBA stuff. Is there a bizarro-world calguns where antis go to talk about anti-RKBA stuff and how much they hate guns? :confused:

No.

The fact is, aside from anti gun group group spokesmen and other officials and a few politicians, almost none of the gun grabbers really care that much about it, certainly not as much as shooters and gun rights activists do.

Most people who are nominally "anti-gun" actually don't have strong opinions and usually respond quite favorably to respectful discussion and a trip to the range.

Something everyone on this board ought to keep in mind.

mmartin
10-22-2009, 7:16 AM
Yup!
Being Democrat or liberal doesn't automatically mean you're anti-gun.
I know, but my brain just won't go around it...
One of the gals I have lined up to train (soon as I get my NRA cert) is a screaming off the left edge of the planet liberal. and wants a gun.

hurts my head every time I think about it.
megan

Mitch
10-22-2009, 7:42 AM
One of the gals I have lined up to train (soon as I get my NRA cert) is a screaming off the left edge of the planet liberal. and wants a gun.

Not unusual at all. I met a lot of people like this through Pink Pistols. Some people would show up at Pink Pistols meets just because they wanted to learn about guns but wanted to avoid the right wing R. Lee Ermey types who often infest gun stores.

FS00008
10-22-2009, 8:10 AM
Nothing wrong with the Gunny, only those who don't know anything and try to emulate his demeanor :-/. Unfortunately I know wayyyyy too many of them.

trinydex
10-22-2009, 9:06 AM
Sure THAT'S EVERYONE ELSE IN KA!! Go to any large city (LA SF SD etc.) talk openly about guns with people. If you're luck you might find mere indifference.

i think i'd find this ^^^^^ to be more true than this

No.

The fact is, aside from anti gun group group spokesmen and other officials and a few politicians, almost none of the gun grabbers really care that much about it, certainly not as much as shooters and gun rights activists do.

Most people who are nominally "anti-gun" actually don't have strong opinions and usually respond quite favorably to respectful discussion and a trip to the range.

Something everyone on this board ought to keep in mind.

Mitch
10-22-2009, 9:09 AM
i think i'd find this ^^^^^ to be more true than this

Have you ever tried?

I have.

Crucial difference between our experiences, perhaps..

trinydex
10-22-2009, 9:42 AM
absolutely... lots of people from liberal leaning areas simply state they'll never touch a gun, even if you offer nicely and under the premise that everyone should know how to at least render a firearm safe. i mean that's the most practical premise you can possibly approach someone, it's pretty much just ignorance nullification at that point, yet some will cling dearly to their.... ignorance (don't know what to call it)?

Lyte-
10-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Yup!
Being Democrat or liberal doesn't automatically mean you're anti-gun.

Seems to be a hard concept for people to grasp

jdberger
10-22-2009, 11:06 AM
There isn't an anti-Calguns, but there are lots of little activist groups that usually manage to rally about 20 or 30 people to attend press conferences.

Lots of them are organized by/affiliated with Mark Karlin and Associates (http://www.markkarlin.com/)out of Chicago. He/they run Gun Guys (http://www.gunguys.com/), Freedom States Alliance (http://www.freedomstatesalliance.com/)and a bunch of the _____ Against Gun Violence and Cease Fire groups (http://www.ohioceasefire.org/) out there. They're heavily funded by the Joyce Foundation (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/) (with almost $2 million in grants this year alone).

Some have "blogs" but none accept comments from readers.

Steyrlp10
10-22-2009, 11:17 AM
anybody have a guess on the number of antis that own guns?

serious question

That's a good question, given the hypocrisy out there. I'd be interested in hearing the answer too.

Super Spy
10-22-2009, 11:21 AM
I went looking for the Brady Bunch website so I could find their public forum and stir things up posting common sense logical arguments that drive anti's crazy.....of course they don't allow this, just like the Obama administration doesn't like news media that doesn't go along with their rhetoric.

Steyrlp10
10-22-2009, 11:24 AM
I know, but my brain just won't go around it...
One of the gals I have lined up to train (soon as I get my NRA cert) is a screaming off the left edge of the planet liberal. and wants a gun.

hurts my head every time I think about it.
megan

I have faith in you that you'll make her see the light :)

510shooter510
10-22-2009, 11:37 AM
anybody have a guess on the number of antis that own guns?

serious question

My guess is that the ones who don't own a "gun" compensate heavily for it. Probably a tactical Bow and Arrow gig or machete's and swords. Seriously, a few anti guys at my job are big sword collectors and Zombie Game players.
Anti's do not live in the real world in the least bit. Their fear of guns stems from some sort of irrational thinking that still wants/needs protection and security. Taser's, knives, sophisticated alarm system's and police (with guns) are their answer to the protection problem.
I would say that 50% of the anti's own old revolvers or know someone (friend) who does so that they can get a hold of it if need arises. Or they will use some Karate and swords to ward off the attacker (seriously).