PDA

View Full Version : Do 90% of Mexican 'crime guns' come from U.S.?


egnilk66
03-30-2009, 6:40 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m3d30-Do-90-of-Mexican-crime-guns-come-from-US

Blurb:

"This is not the result of an ongoing federal investigation, it's BATF piggybacking on local cops...what is not being seized in Miss., they aren't seizing RPGs, grenades and Class III Military ARs and AKs. The point is that the military guns aren't coming from here. They come from Venezuela, Colombia, Cuba, Israel, Brazil and China..."

PatriotnMore
03-30-2009, 6:52 AM
It is amazing, the level of political dis-information, outright lies, and fear mongering is beyond belief.

I seriously think the NRA needs to go on full out media blitz to de-bunk the claims being laid out there, as pure rubbish, and an end to a political end, started by the Obama administration.

It is not hard to see that the media blitz has mostly taken place since he, and his cabinet took office.

Gator Monroe
03-30-2009, 6:55 AM
65% of the Mexican weapons (or more) came from Mexican Military (via US Military) ../

ChuckBooty
03-30-2009, 6:57 AM
WHO CARES IF THEY ARE GETTING GUNS FROM THE UNITED STATES!? It seems that our Secretary of State wants to blame American for EVERYTHING.

The Mexicans are getting guns from the United States. So that's OUR fault. But Americans are getting drugs from the Mexicans...that's OUR fault too?

How about deploying our National Guard as a full-time border protection force? The Guard just got rid of their enlistment bonuses, raised their ASVAB requirement, and lowered their maximum enlistment age by eight years...this is because the National Guard is OVER STRENGTHED. They're NOT all in Iraq or over seas....and believe me. They WANT to go!

egnilk66
03-30-2009, 6:58 AM
She sure seems to hate Americans....and America, no?

Gator Monroe
03-30-2009, 7:03 AM
She sure seems to hate Americans....and America, no?

Wonder how many of the Dem/Lib posters here at CGN hate America because of it's "Racist colonial imperialist past" and support of Israel, and evil Police state tactics , and unfair economic policies towards minorities, and Bull Conner/jim crow past, and yadda yadda yadda...:sleeping:

paintballergb
03-30-2009, 7:11 AM
Once you convert that number into pesos it is really only like 9%.

Vin496
03-30-2009, 7:20 AM
Once you convert that number into pesos it is really only like 9%.

Well 9-12% depending on the peso that day.:D

dustoff31
03-30-2009, 1:53 PM
It is amazing, the level of political dis-information, outright lies, and fear mongering is beyond belief.

I seriously think the NRA needs to go on full out media blitz to de-bunk the claims being laid out there, as pure rubbish, and an end to a political end, started by the Obama administration.

It is not hard to see that the media blitz has mostly taken place since he, and his cabinet took office.


Yes, I noticed that even the "conservative" media doesn't ask the right questions on this issue.

Some ATF schlub was on Fox news the other night spouting the 90% of guns traced come from the US crap.

But the reporter never asked any questions like:

1. Does ATF pick the weapons to be traced or are they given to you by the Mexican government?

2. What is the total number of guns taken from crooks vs. the number you trace?

EZ G
03-30-2009, 2:57 PM
90 to 95 % is the agreed upon "talking point" number. If they repeat a lie enough it becomes true.

No the numbers are not right. Mexico refuses to even release serial numbers for tracing. How in the hell can anyone make a claim if none of the weapons have even been traced?

Never mind the fact that 16,000 Mexican Soldiers left their posts last year and defected to the cartels taking their weapons with them. Or that (per the L.A. Times) the international who's who of evil countries is known to have supplied military rifles, grenades, etc.

* I listened to Laura Ingraham this A.M. where they had a brady rep. spouting this nonsense. The pro 2nd amend guy was sad sack and couldn't counter to save his life.

MontClaire
03-30-2009, 3:02 PM
you have to look at it form the birds eyes view. the bans on guns and their subsequent confiscation is about control of our country. I have never met a foreigner who is pro 2A in USA. Never.

hoffmang
03-30-2009, 4:48 PM
I believe someone hit on where the 90% number came from. The real number is the following:

90% of those guns that we (ATF) run traces on (taking into consideration that there is no reason to trace an actual M-16 or FA AK-47 in the first place) trace back to an FFL in the USA.

To which everyone should say, well of course 90% of the guns you trace come back as being bought at some time from an FFL in the USA because you aren't tracing the vast majority since you know they couldn't have come from the USA.

How many cops do you know that intentionally follow leads they know are going to be dead ends?

Hat tip to the firearmsregprof list...

-Gene

7x57
03-30-2009, 6:42 PM
I believe someone hit on where the 90% number came from. The real number is the following:


I read their thread. So basically, what the statistic actually says is that 90% of the guns the Mexican government thinks come from the US and cares enough to ask actually do come from the US. Given that there were of the order of 1000 traces, the absolute number is probably an insignificantly small number of the guns they have, probably even a small fraction of those found by the Mexican government.

What is particularly dirty about this blatant statistical lie is that it by nature excludes precisely the guns the news media is implying--when the Mexican government finds a select-fire Chinese AK they know it isn't a US gun, so they don't bother asking the American ATF.

Is it worth putting the origin of this statistic somewhere for future reference when more people come asking about the news reports?

The other interesting point was why the US guns that do go to the Cartels do so. We have decent guns. They'd be just as deadly with cheap third-world pistols, but if you had that much money you'd buy quality too. (I'm going to just purely guess here that nice US or European-made guns are a status symbol.) Oddly enough, nobody suggests outlawing Swiss watches because drug lords care enough to buy the very best. But that's the old, old pattern of lies.

7x57

TRICKSTER
03-30-2009, 6:52 PM
Mexico doesn't want guns from the U.S. coming into their country.
We don't want drugs from Mexico coming into the U.S.
Guns are already illegal in Mexico so passing more laws won't work.
Drugs are already illegal in the U.S. so passing more laws won't work.

Simple solution. Instead of taking away the rights of law abiding citizens, close the border until both countries get it under control.:thumbsup:

SimpleCountryActuary
03-30-2009, 6:56 PM
Mexico doesn't want guns from the U.S. coming into their country.
We don't want drugs from Mexico coming into the U.S.
Guns are already illegal in Mexico so passing more laws won't work.
Drugs are already illegal in the U.S. so passing more laws won't work.

Simple solution. Instead of taking away the rights of law abiding citizens, close the border until both countries get it under control.:thumbsup:

Wait! Or ... send all Mexican drugs north and all US guns south ... wait ... Oh Heck! I'm confused! Oh Yea! Send all US politicians to Mexico!

Problem solved.:thumbsup:

7x57
03-30-2009, 7:38 PM
you have to look at it form the birds eyes view. the bans on guns and their subsequent confiscation is about control of our country. I have never met a foreigner who is pro 2A in USA. Never.

I have, and I'm not terribly well traveled in the 2A community. They are often more uncompromising on the 2A and have a greater awareness of why it is what it is than us native-born. Let's see...I have a friend from Lebanon whose family fled Armenia during the Turkish holocaust. They were slaughtered by their government in Armenia, and Lebanon is lawless enough that as a teen he carried a (real, not US-neutered) AK along with the rest of the family. What do you think he believes about the right to protect yourself from others and from your government? He thinks police should not have guns, as with the old British custom, and I think he also believes that we should obey our founders' prohibitions on a peacetime army and instead truly use the militia system.

At the Nordyke hearing I met a couple from, IIRC, Poland. What do you think their view of the possibility of needing arms is?

I haven't met Manny Fernandez, but my Armenian friend tells me Manny makes him look moderate. Someone else will chime in and correct me, but Manny's family apparently comes from Cuba....

Then of course Joel Friedman is Jewish. I don't know his family history at all, but it's not hard to guess some generic reasons. I have another Jewish friend from Argentina who isn't really a Second Amendment guy per se, but when the subject came up he got thoughtful and suddenly brought up that the family had some rifles from a few generations ago when it was especially dangerous to be Jewish in Argentina. He pointed out that he was the first generation that didn't bother to learn. And of course they got to Argentina fleeing some ugly pogrom or the other in Eastern Europe. So it doesn't take much for him to start thinking about the Second Amendment.

Then of course there is the Appleseed instructor I met who is from England. He got into shooting partly for fun and partly because he felt it really indicated what his government thought of him. He emigrated to the US shortly before the final bans.

7x57

yellowfin
03-30-2009, 10:46 PM
I haven't met Manny Fernandez, but my Armenian friend tells me Manny makes him look moderate. Someone else will chime in and correct me, but Manny's family apparently comes from Cuba.... I really wish more people had been paying attention to what the Cuban community had to say about our least favorite people in DC. They've seen a lot of the stuff before we're seeing now.

Gio
03-30-2009, 11:06 PM
Funny how it is just a simple drive across the Mexican Border. There are lines for those that may have something to declare, but no one really stops. And the times I have driven over the Border I have never seen the Feds stop anyone to search their cars or beings. If anyone wanted to they could buy a car/truck load of firearms illegally here in the States and drive them into Mexico with no problems. Meanwhile trying to get back into the States is a different story, it usually takes an hour or more to get back into the States. I am not anti-Mex or U.S. I am a U.S. Born Citizen that just happened to be Born and Raised in Mexico :) I have seen what drugs and crime have done to the people of both couontries since I was a little boy growing up in Mexico then in the U.S. yes it is sad. But we need to focus on other ways of stopping the flow of firearms and drugs to and from Mexico. That is not going to be an easy task, too much demand for both in each country. I just wish that FUD would stop being spread by the media and what not. Also we should be glad we have some freedoms here in this beautiful place we call home. That is it,

-Gio

jphaxx
03-30-2009, 11:52 PM
it's such a fraud