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View Full Version : Ruby Ridge: San Diego Sheriff Candidate approved "shoot to kill"


GuyW
03-29-2009, 1:06 PM
"Four FBI agents, including the ex-head of the bureau's Seattle field office [[William Gore, APPOINTED San Diego Sheriff']], invoked their Fifth Amendment privileges against self-incrimination yesterday during Senate hearings into a shootout in northern Idaho that left three people dead....In a closed session, the four FBI agents, citing their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, refused to answer questions put to them by senators,

He said senior FBI official Larry Potts [above Gore in chain of command]....had approved an order under which FBI snipers were to shoot on sight any adult male seen with a weapon on the Weaver property.

....Richard Rodgers, head of the team. Rogers [below Gore in chain of command] helped formulate controversial "rules of engagement" for the siege that critics say amounted to a "shoot on sight" order for all armed adult males on the Weaver property.

FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi opened fire just a few hours after the rules of engagement were approved, wounding Randy Weaver and then killing his 43-year-old wife [head shot on mother holding her infant]...

....Justice Department probe of an alleged FBI cover-up of its conduct at Ruby Ridge...”

http://www.seattlepi.com/archives/1995/9509200047.asp


More: http://www.byington.org/Carl/ruby/ruby4h.htm


Tell me this guy wouldn't order Katrina-style gun confiscations, including use of deadly force, and other outrageous acts against the Constitution.

Who will help uncover more truth about this guy WHO WANTS TO BE the next elected Sheriff in San Diego??

.

GuyW
03-29-2009, 1:49 PM
He's apparently a congenital, politically-motivated anti-gunner, inheriting the defect from his father:

"Mayor Frank Curran (left) and detective William Gore display guns to be dumped at sea, 1968. The mayor had instituted a voluntary gun turn-in program modeled after San Francisco's.

SDPD chief O.J. Roed, meanwhile, stated his opposition to the registration of guns because he didn't believe such laws could be enforced."

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2007/dec/27/Guns-Dumped-at-Sea-1968/

Mstrty
03-29-2009, 2:06 PM
Tell me this guy wouldn't order Katrina-style gun confiscations, including use of deadly force, and other outrageous acts against the Constitution.

Who will help uncover more truth about this guy WHO WANTS TO BE the next elected Sheriff in San Diego??

.

Is this for real? We in Sacramento have a sheriff that campaigned with a pro gun agenda only to stab us all in the back and virtually stopped issuing CCW's. I feel for you guys down there. I hope you can get this guy's campaign dumped in the sea.

GuyW
03-29-2009, 4:21 PM
Ooops - maybe if he wasn't smoozin' the politicos, things would have been different:

"In its 900-page report, the joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees criticized the pre-Sept. 11 counterterrorism analysis done by the FBI and CIA. The report suggests there were several missed opportunities to foil the attacks, and that alleged intelligence failures were especially obvious in San Diego, where two hijackers were known to a longtime FBI informant.

...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/aug/10/nation/na-fbi10

N6ATF
03-30-2009, 12:22 AM
Bury him. His only votes should be his own and his associates'.

GuyW
03-30-2009, 9:49 AM
Bury him. His only votes should be his own and his associates'.

He's the establishments' boy....spends quite a bit of time smoozing with folks that can give him money....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071012-1504-gore4.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071012-1502-gore3.html

So - what do you say, San Diego?

You'll get an anti-gun politician with a verified itchy trigger-finger for Sheriff if you don't do something about this election...

.

Alaric
03-30-2009, 10:26 AM
This is troubling news indeed.

And now that David Bejarano has also entered the race it's more important than ever for us to unite behind Jay La Suer as our pro-gun candidate.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Guy.

GenLee
03-30-2009, 10:43 AM
This is troubling news indeed.

And now that David Bejarano has also entered the race it's more important than ever for us to unite behind Jay La Suer as our pro-gun candidate.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Guy.

+1 We all need to do what we can to get behind/Help Jay La Suer and not allow Bejarano to be a spoiler, Allowing this Gore scum bag to win the election.

yellowfin
03-30-2009, 11:05 AM
This is troubling news indeed. Troubling? Quite the opposite, this is great news! This is great material to be exploited to the maximum possible benefit. There is no way that the anti CCW can in any way be allowed to appear moderate with a "shoot to kill on sight anyone who has a gun" position. It's the PERFECT soundbite. Jay and we as Jay's supporters should milk this and any other such findings for everything they're worth. Go tabloid, so to speak.

GuyW
03-30-2009, 11:09 AM
+1 We all need to do what we can to get behind/Help Jay La Suer and not allow Bejarano to be a spoiler, Allowing this Gore scum bag to win the election.

Hey guys - post up some intel on Bejarano, *maybe* in a new thread.

As far as I know, though, Bejarano's a big-city liberal, presumptively guns-for-cops-only, and unlikely to cut into La Suer's votes. He'll probably take votes from Gore....

.

GuyW
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."


You know that "no evidence" means, "we weren't so stupid as to document our failings", yes?
.

Alaric
03-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Hey guys - post up some intel on Bejarano, *maybe* in a new thread.

As far as I know, though, Bejarano's a big-city liberal, presumptively guns-for-cops-only, and unlikely to cut into La Suer's votes. He'll probably take votes from Gore....

.

Bejarano is a RINO by most accounts; likely to carry the latino and organized labor votes. I agree that he's unlikely to draw votes away from La Suer, but he is unfortunately a strong candidate (former SD Police Chief and US Marshall). I do not know his CCW position, but it would be interesting to find out. Here's a couple recent links on him:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/mar/26/bn26bejarano184021/

http://www.redcounty.com/sandiego/2009/02/labor-loves-bejarano/

GuyW
06-30-2009, 6:09 PM
...plaigarized discusssion of Bejarano from the Dehesa Valley Gazette...

"**Humm. David Bajarano was SD City Police Chief. Big job. Big department. He quit. Why? Well he had an offer to be a U.S. Marshal. Huh? Leave a command job to be federal flunky? Naaaa. He had packed in 24 years in the cop shop. It was grab the pension loot-health care-etc time. Why work at a job when you can be paid for not doing that job. More years wasnít gonna garner much more pension money. Bail.

Smart fellow that many gummint workers are..he jumped into a job that offered opportunity for another pensionÖ.but flunky-dome can be a *****. So into the private sector. That mostly sucked. Hello. All my life at the public swill bucket and Iím gonna survive in the public sectorÖno guaranteed pension. Forget this.

Hey, I know, Iíll run for SD County Sheriff. Public Chob, not as good as my Police Chief gig but pension, pension, pension. And I wonít have to flunk or scrape up biz in the private sector. Iím raking in city pension, at county Iíll get a good pay check and score time for my second pension payout.

Am I reading too much into this? I think not. Why leave a job as SD Police Chief in a department you served for almost a quarter century to take a lateral job as Sheriff. Letís spell it together please P-E-N-S-I-O-N. Good work folks.

Weíll look at the other candidates for SD County Sheriff in future issues."

Roadrunner
06-30-2009, 6:29 PM
If you SD guys know for a fact that LaSuer is a pro-2A fine upstanding candidate that won't stab you in the back after the smoke clears, get out and vote for him and burn those other two guys to the ground with whatever it takes.

CoinStar
07-01-2009, 1:15 PM
I'm really hoping that this little incident at Fran Busby's shindig the other night somehow, someway reflects poorly on Gore. It wasn't quite a Ruby Ridge II of course, but it still isn't sitting well with the public.

Unfortunately, it's more than likely going to be a feather in his cap if the investigation concludes that the sheriff's department overstepped its bounds and reprimands are issued to whomever. That'll give the impression that he's willing to fight abuse or whatnot amongst the ranks. Not good when we're trying to call his character into question.

JMO.

Eckolaker
07-01-2009, 1:47 PM
Ooops - maybe if he wasn't smoozin' the politicos, things would have been different:

"In its 900-page report, the joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees criticized the pre-Sept. 11 counterterrorism analysis done by the FBI and CIA. The report suggests there were several missed opportunities to foil the attacks, and that alleged intelligence failures were especially obvious in San Diego, where two hijackers were known to a longtime FBI informant.

...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/aug/10/nation/na-fbi10

Read up on Project Able Danger. However you are quickly going to find that is a very deep rabbit hole that will lead you straight to the path of truth about 9/11.

GuyW
07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm really hoping that this little incident at Fran Busby's shindig the other night somehow, someway reflects poorly on Gore. It wasn't quite a Ruby Ridge II of course, but it still isn't sitting well with the public.


I find it incredibly funny - the liberal Democrats official position is that only cops and government agents NEED guns (aka Police State).

Then they snivel when they PURPORTEDLY receive police attention that is allegedly heavy-handed....


Unfortunately, it's more than likely going to be a feather in his cap if the investigation concludes that the sheriff's department overstepped its bounds and reprimands are issued to whomever.

I'd imagine that the Deputy Sheriffs Association will be monitoring this closely, and there will be consequences if Gore tries to railroad the Deputy for political posturing.
.

GuyW
07-15-2009, 2:29 PM
Jay La Suer was on Rick Roberts' radio show on July 14th...Rick basically quoted a post from CalGuns (mine, in fact -"You know that 'no evidence' means, 'we weren't so stupid as to document our failings'")!

(Rick Roberts rightfully has a very successful show with a large listenership....)

(audio file here)
http://www.760kfmb.com/Global/category.asp?C=157359


Wish I had known this was going to be on....

.

N6ATF
07-15-2009, 2:42 PM
Audio file HERE actually:
http://media.worldnow.com/kfmbam/podcast/rick_roberts_464.mp3

LOL

AEC1
07-15-2009, 6:32 PM
Jay was on Rick roberts yesterday. I tried to get Rick to talk about it before the BOS meeting, but Obama had the center stage...

cousinkix1953
07-15-2009, 8:54 PM
Troubling? Quite the opposite, this is great news! This is great material to be exploited to the maximum possible benefit. There is no way that the anti CCW can in any way be allowed to appear moderate with a "shoot to kill on sight anyone who has a gun" position. It's the PERFECT soundbite. Jay and we as Jay's supporters should milk this and any other such findings for everything they're worth. Go tabloid, so to speak.
Gore can't even follow his own rules of engagement. Vicki Weaver was unarmed. This butcher ordered his FBI sniper to kill her any way...

motorhead
07-16-2009, 9:12 AM
unfortunately, he is the darling of the bos and the deputies union, big players in the race.

yellowfin
07-16-2009, 9:41 AM
unfortunately, he is the darling of the bos and the deputies union, big players in the race. How about we show them for what they are then while we're at it, nothing but wannabe 3rd world dictators. Put the entire anti gun political complex on trial.

cactus
07-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable. Ive seen and read interviews with Weaver and countless others; I just don't have the words to describe my frustration with our government over it. This just furthers that statement.

GuyW
07-16-2009, 10:25 AM
Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable. Ive seen and read interviews with Weaver and countless others; I just don't have the words to describe my frustration with our government over it. This just furthers that statement.

This Sheriff's race is a good vehicle for out-of-area / out of state citizens to show that they don't think Ruby Ridge JBTs should be rewarded by higher office....citizens can do that by financially supporting Jay La Suer...

This COULD be an excellent chance to show that we don't EVER forget about criminal violations of the Constitution or those who participated in same...
.

PatriotnMore
07-16-2009, 10:29 AM
Could not agree more.

This Sheriff's race is a good vehicle for out-of-area / out of state citizens to show that they don't think Ruby Ridge JBTs should be rewarded by higher office....citizens can do that by financially supporting Jay La Suer...

This COULD be an excellent chance to show that we don't EVER forget about criminal violations of the Constitution or those who participated in same...
.

cousinkix1953
07-16-2009, 11:54 PM
This can happen again if this ex G man thinks that he got away with something at Ruby Ridge. San Diego county residents could find themselves dealing with crooked deputies; who pretend that it's their job, to encourage people to break the law. They might ask you to chop down a pair of cheap single shot shotguns again. Your dog and your wife might wind up dead even if they are unarmed.

All of those hotdogs who screwed up in Idaho should have been drummed out of the police business forever. Their reckless rules of engagement cost the US taxpayers $3,000,000.00 in a lawsuit and you should never let this Gore dude forget it. It might be nice to see Randy Weaver and col. Beau Gritz campaign against him too...

CoinStar
07-17-2009, 9:50 AM
It might be nice to see Randy Weaver and col. Beau Gritz campaign against him too...

Yeah. That would be great press if we wanted Gore to win. Fortunately though, San Diego County isn't a bastion of ultra-right wingnuts and thus appealing to this mythical pro-Weaver base would be pointless.

This is also why I think that in attacking Gore, it's important not to harp too much on the whole Ruby Ridge thing in general. We need broad support to get La Suer elected and most uninformed voters aren't going to care enough (or even know) Gore's role in that mess.

That may rub some folks wrong, but it's the truth.

Glock22Fan
07-17-2009, 9:54 AM
We know the truth about Ruby Ridge (or at least enough of it to have a reasoned judgement).

I'm not sure that the sheeple either know or care. To them, I'm guessing, Randy Weaver is still some kind of weird mountain man who deserved whatever happened there.

GuyW
07-17-2009, 10:25 AM
....ultra-right wingnuts

This is also why I think that in attacking Gore, it's important not to harp too much on the whole Ruby Ridge thing in general.

I'd currently agree that it might not be helpful for Randy Weaver to speak in San Diego, but I'm open to discussion.

Most centrist/moderate voters don't consider the 9th District Court, nor the US Senate, as "ultra-right wingnuts". Those were the authorities (among others) who said that the "shoot on sight" order was a violation of Constitutional rights.

The "point" of reaching out to people around the country, who already care about Ruby Ridge, is financial support to thwart JBT Gore.

I think a mother being executed / murdered by a shot to the head by government agents, resonates with average San Diego voters, as well....

.

POLICESTATE
07-17-2009, 10:43 AM
How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.

GuyW
07-17-2009, 11:00 AM
How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.

IIRC, the baby wasn't significantly harmed, but I'll have to look at it later....
.

POLICESTATE
07-17-2009, 11:25 AM
Oh yeah, I don't know why I thought the baby was killed too, she was just holding it. Okay amend to "resulting in the death of a mother who only had her 10 month old baby in her arms" or something to that effect

Glock22Fan
07-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Oh yeah, I don't know why I thought the baby was killed too, she was just holding it. Okay amend to "resulting in the death of a mother who only had her 10 month old baby in her arms" or something to that effect

"Gore authorized the fatal shooting of an innocent, unarmed mother holding her baby. Both the 9th District Court, and the US Senate rule that this violated her constitutional rights (duh!). This incident happened at a government provoked stand-off with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, who had been accused (by a federal agent provocateur) of a crime for which he was later acquitted."

For the benefit of those who don't know, IIRC Weaver was accused of manufacturing a shotgun with too short a barrel (by a tiny fraction of an inch -- I don't remember exactly how much -- maybe one eighth of an inch). His accuser was the undercover ATF agent who had commissioned the manufacture. He didn't turn up to answer these charges, which is why the seige was laid on. The firing started when a government agent shot Weaver's son's dog, who had discovered them creeping up on the Weaver's cabin. Vicki Weaver was, child in arms, standing on the porch of the cabin when she was shot.

At a subsequent court case, a firearm expert demonstrated, that depending from where the measurement was taken, the barrel was either an eighth undersized or an eighth oversized. The case was dismissed and no other charges were laid.


-----------------

This is the prime reason why anyone manufacturing a minimum length shotgun should err on the side of safety and make the barrel maybe a quarter of an inch longer than the absolute minimum length.

POLICESTATE
07-17-2009, 12:52 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Weaver was asked by the ATF agent to shorten the barrels to the illegal length and he said he wouldn't do it. So the agent bought the shotguns as they were and then shortened them himself.

POLICESTATE
07-17-2009, 12:55 PM
The reference I mention above is in the Wikipedia entry, of course I hardly consider Wikipedia to be gospel on much of anything but here's a link for those interested in at least getting a general idea on what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

LiquidFlorian
07-17-2009, 1:00 PM
You guys should put together a web ad with this data in it... Do you have a PAC or opponent campaign you can work with?

Glock22Fan
07-17-2009, 1:41 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Weaver was asked by the ATF agent to shorten the barrels to the illegal length and he said he wouldn't do it. So the agent bought the shotguns as they were and then shortened them himself.

My recollection is that the ATF agent asked for a shorter, illegal, barrel and Weaver refused. He agreed to make a minimum length barrel and this was the one that was measured in court. The court agreed that within the definition of "minimum length," the barrel that Weaver made was either just below or just above the required standard. The court gave Weaver the benefit of the doubt as the statute was not sufficiently clear about how to measure the barrel.

I have no recollection that the ATF agent modified the barrel, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Don't remember where I got this information, probably not wikipedia. Never read anything that seriously contradicts it.

cousinkix1953
07-17-2009, 8:58 PM
How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.
BINGO! It's just the truth. Does San Diego have any more local conservative talk shows? Call then too. Those guys were angry about both Ruby Ridge and Waco at the time. Gore is in fact partly responsible for the death of Vicki Weaver. Since the sheriff has the same kind of SWAT team, armed with sniper weapons, then "the rules of engagement" should become a campaign issue.

C-SPAN televised the Ruby Ridge hearings. They also sell DVDs of their archives, if somebody needs footage for a political ad. Lots of Gore's double speak in there for sure...

CoinStar
07-19-2009, 4:04 PM
Most centrist/moderate voters don't consider the 9th District Court, nor the US Senate, as "ultra-right wingnuts". Those were the authorities (among others) who said that the "shoot on sight" order was a violation of Constitutional rights.

Right, the difference being that they were privy to all of the details of the case and actual event, whereas Joe-everyday-voter isn't. The chances that the average person would even recognize Weaver's name are slim. For those who did, the chances that his name would likely elicit a "Oh. The white supremacist guy!" sort of reaction would be high -- not good.

This is why the Ruby Ridge angle to beating up Gore is a labor-intensive endeavor; the voluminous background information and details are an absolute necessity to winning the hearts and minds of the uninformed. Call me cynical, but I'd bet good money that most voters would tune out within a minute and chalk it all up to "gun nuts" supporting a "criminal"... facts be damned.


I think a mother being executed / murdered by a shot to the head by government agents, resonates with average San Diego voters, as well....

True, but aside from the issues I've already pointed out, I think recent and local events (like the fracas at Busby's) would resonate better and with a broader audience simply because more people could relate. The idea of sheriff's deputies barging into your house sans warrant, pepper spraying people with air support circling, and then arresting you for simply asking why they demanded you give them your date of birth, doesn't (and hasn't) gone over well with the public. I'd like to see that tied to Gore somehow... something ala a 'Is this how you want your sheriff's department to act?' slogan.

GuyW
07-20-2009, 5:40 PM
Craigslist has some forums where we may be able to make some headway, with (apparently) non-conservative readers...

Other ideas for web forums??
.

Sheriff Jay
07-29-2009, 5:51 AM
Listen In Live as Sheriff Joe Arpaio from Maricopa County and I talk with Rick Roberts, 760am KFMB @ 7:00am about some VERY EXCITING news! And don’t forget: Join Rick Roberts, Jimmy Valentine and myself this Friday, 31 July, 4-7:00pm. for the Rosie Rosas Drive Thru Fund Raiser at the Scottish Rits Center in Mission Valley, under the tents! We need to pull together as a community and support this young family left behind after the BRUTAL MURDER of Border Patrol Agent Robert Rosas, Jr. SEE YOU THERE!!!

motorhead
07-29-2009, 9:16 AM
guys, unless you're living in a cave somewhere, you've heard of randy weaver and ruby ridge. what surprises me is the near blackout when it comes to gore's involvement. it's like "that of which we dare not speak"!

GuyW
07-29-2009, 12:16 PM
guys, unless you're living in a cave somewhere, you've heard of randy weaver and ruby ridge. what surprises me is the near blackout when it comes to gore's involvement. it's like "that of which we dare not speak"!

Article in yesterday's North County Times, whitewashing Gore's involvement in Ruby Ridge...
.

Davidwhitewolf
07-29-2009, 1:00 PM
Got a link to that article? UPDATE: Think I found it. (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/07/25/news/sandiego/z462c11e5fb2e8439882575f50074ba09.txt)

GuyW
07-29-2009, 1:21 PM
Got a link to that article? UPDATE: Think I found it. (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2009/07/25/news/sandiego/z462c11e5fb2e8439882575f50074ba09.txt)

....some good comments there.....not too favorable toward Herr Gore, tho.....
.

GuyW
09-03-2009, 1:28 AM
Watch it and weep...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJCqgX9dDTU&feature=related

....bloody gore coming to a community near you....
.

GuyW
09-03-2009, 2:10 AM
IIRC, the baby wasn't significantly harmed, but I'll have to look at it later....
.

...according to Randy Weaver, in a youtube video, he pulled the baby from under his wife on the floor, and the baby was covered with broken glass, blood, and fragments of jawbone....

.

GuyW
09-03-2009, 2:12 AM
You guys should put together a web ad with this data in it... Do you have a PAC or opponent campaign you can work with?

...looking for professional assistance to set up the "Anybody But Gore" Independent Expenditure Committee...

.

GuyW
09-25-2009, 5:57 PM
bump for newbys

GuyW
12-05-2009, 8:25 AM
bump for San Diego newbies

GuyW
12-08-2009, 7:37 AM
Just another reason for La Suer supporters to get busy....

"DSA Board Members Ernie Carrillo, Ponzio Oliverio, Matthew Clay, Matthew Etchepare, Tim Petrachek and Steve Purvis invite you to a fundraising event at the DSA Office for Sheriff's Candidate Jim Duffy.....DSA members may attend at a special $50 contribution rate. This is a great opportunity to support the DSA endorsed candidate for Sheriff."

GuyW
03-26-2010, 9:33 AM
Article on Gore in the North County Times....poor guy just doesn't enjoy campaigning....I intent to see that he REALLY hates it.....and, don't miss the Discussion:

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2392f23f-467d-5772-b386-76b1586fb0bb.html

.

AEC1
03-26-2010, 1:08 PM
What a tool, I sent him 5 bucks though, in the name of Vickie Weaver!!!!

Neo Sharkey
03-26-2010, 8:41 PM
I wonder if Randy Weaver would be willing to fly into San Diego to be interviewed by Roger Hedgecock on the Ruby Ridge incident. Be a good way to let everyone know what we could be in for.

Heck, i'd be willing to pitch in $100 toward a plane ticket and hotel room for Randy if he agrees.

Aleksandr Mravinsky
03-27-2010, 9:14 AM
Were any of the FBI or BATFE agents charged? It seems to me that a federal agency that accuses someone of bank robbery merely for not doing what they want should be dismantled immediately. And what of the guy who shot Vicki? Shooting an unarmed woman in the head is never okay, even under those ridiculous ROE.

AEC1
03-27-2010, 9:27 AM
If remember correctly one director was repramended, the shooter ended up quiting but was never charged, and our sherriff pled the 5th under congresional oath...

GuyW
03-27-2010, 9:35 AM
Were any of the FBI or BATFE agents charged? It seems to me that a federal agency that accuses someone of bank robbery merely for not doing what they want should be dismantled immediately. And what of the guy who shot Vicki? Shooting an unarmed woman in the head is never okay, even under those ridiculous ROE.

IIRC, the Idaho Attorney General charged some of them with murder.....what happened I need to find out....

.

vantec08
03-27-2010, 9:36 AM
Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable. Ive seen and read interviews with Weaver and countless others; I just don't have the words to describe my frustration with our government over it. This just furthers that statement.

dam right cactus. I met and talked with weaver at a gun show in L.A. couple years after the incident. I found him to be reasonable, intelligent, plain spoken. This sheriff candidate is INDEED the type to go for a civil disarmament order. I know just exactly what my government thinks of me.

CCWFacts
03-27-2010, 10:11 AM
IIRC, the Idaho Attorney General charged some of them with murder.....what happened I need to find out....

The gunman Lon Horiuchi was charged with murder (or maybe manslaughter?) in state court, where it seemed pretty likely he would be convicted. He made a motion to have the trial moved to federal court. Federal court dismissed the case, because the action was committed while on the job as an FBI agent.

They have almost absolute immunity, no matter what they do. The only exceptions are things like corruption. For instance, if Mr. Horiuchi had taken a bribe instead of executing someone, he would have been convicted easily.

Ca Patriot
03-27-2010, 11:57 AM
Any law enforcement officer involved with Ruby Ridge needs to be run out of America. They should NEVER be allowed to work in law enforcement EVER AGAIN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ENu-M2GKU

BluNorthern
03-27-2010, 2:16 PM
Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable.
This thread got me to take a look at the Wiki article. Actually pretty decent coverage of the event. Pissed me off all over again, brought back some bad memories and feelings regarding the incident. I live in Boundary County, and was here when all this B.S. went down. Never met Randy but had seen Harris a couple of times in the local stores. Couldn't believe then and still can't the trouble the Marshal's went to to prosecute and harass Randy over nothing. I can tell you he minded his own business and harmed no one to my knowledge. This was all about his alleged involvement with the Aryans which as far as I know he was too much of a loner, and his beliefs didn't go to their violent extremes, to care about joining. The law did everything they could to get him to act as their spy against them, and he wasn't going to do it so they targeted him over nothing, a shotgun that was, as I heard, maybe an 1/8th too short, that a federal agent got him to cut. Entrapment, pure and simple. If they wanted him so bad they could easily have just waited him out. He wasn't going anywhere and they could have just starved him out. But no, they trespass onto his private property, create a situation, shoot the son's dog and then kill Sammy by shooting him in the back. Then they cry foul when Harris kills Marshal Degan. Lots of back shooting, Sammy, then Randy at the shed. then Harris, who was shot in the upper back shoulder as he ran to the cabin door, the bullet passing through him and hitting Vicki in the face as she held her baby behind the door. Real F'ing responsible on the part of all the law agencies involved. As far as I'm concerned the sniper and ALL involved should have been convicted and sentenced to serious time, but of course, that's not the way things went. Just a horrible series of events, all over nothing, and no one accountable.:mad:

Mendo223
03-27-2010, 3:34 PM
Hopefully SD can make sure this guy never gets voted into office..

GuyW
03-28-2010, 8:12 AM
Hopefully SD can make sure this guy never gets voted into office..

The best (IMHO) candidate, Jay La Suer, can use donations and supporters and campaign workers.....

The choices on election day are not usually as black-n-white as this race...

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Hunt
03-28-2010, 5:13 PM
He's the establishments' boy....spends quite a bit of time smoozing with folks that can give him money....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071012-1504-gore4.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071012-1502-gore3.html

So - what do you say, San Diego?

You'll get an anti-gun politician with a verified itchy trigger-finger for Sheriff if you don't do something about this election...

.you need a qualified Liberal Resume to move up the FED ladder

GuyW
04-06-2010, 4:35 PM
There will be a Sheriff's Candidate Forum at the Escondido Republican Club on April 19th. All 3 candidates have confirmed attendance.

There will be 3 questions asked of each candidate, and then pre-submitted questions will be directed to the candidates (not every submitted question can be used, due to time limits).

LOL! Questions such as, "Does shooting mothers in the head qualify one to be Sheriff of SD County" may not pass muster....(didn't want to get your hopes up...)

http://www.escondidorepublicanclub.org/meetings-speakers.html

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Pistolero Pete
04-06-2010, 5:13 PM
Jay has my vote!

Fissssh
04-06-2010, 5:57 PM
Just re read all the story and evidence and dog catcher should be the highest office this ***hat should ever attain. The sniper should rot in hell.

tazmanian devil dog
04-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Remember, most of these "Sheriffs" are nothing more than tin horn elected officials who only care about their own selfish ambitions. They care nothing about your Constitutional rights, not one of them. This should be no surprise to any of us. We need to continue the fight to take our state back!!!!That is the only way we can secure our rights.

motorhead
04-07-2010, 1:00 AM
it truly amazes me how few locals know of gore's role in ruby ridge. the local media avoid the subject like a biohazard.

GuyW
04-07-2010, 10:42 AM
it truly amazes me how few locals know of gore's role in ruby ridge. the local media avoid the subject like a biohazard.

A little bird told me there was going to be a series of Letters to the Editor in the North County Times (and maybe a guest opinion piece).

Contact me if little birds talk to you, too....
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jnojr
04-07-2010, 2:05 PM
Couldn't believe then and still can't the trouble the Marshal's went to to prosecute and harass Randy over nothing. I can tell you he minded his own business and harmed no one to my knowledge. This was all about his alleged involvement with the Aryans which as far as I know he was too much of a loner, and his beliefs didn't go to their violent extremes, to care about joining.

IIRC, Randy Weaver was a white separatist, not a white supremacist / KKK / Aryan. He didn't want to kill or enslave all black people... he just didn't want to live near any.

There are black separatists, too... it just means they want to live with "their own kind". I believe people have an absolute right to dislike others for any reason, including the color of their skin, and to choose to live only with people they want to live with. I think it's silly/stupid... but if you want to live around nobody but white people, that doesn't harm me or anyone else.

jnojr
04-07-2010, 2:10 PM
Hopefully SD can make sure this guy never gets voted into office..

Unfortunately, being handed incumbent status is a huge leg up. A lot of people will say, "Oh, I'll just vote for the guy who's Sheriff now... I don't know anything about anything, and things seem to be OK to me, so I'll just check the name I recognize."

Too few voters are completely informed. I would have no problem with a test being administered before you're allowed to vote that shows whether or not you have the vaguest idea what is being voted on. Please note, not a test to determine where you stand on a particular issue... just to see if you recognize that Prop A is about a garbage landfill and not a civil rights issue, a condemnation of the Bushpeople invasion of Catfoodland, or a declaration of Obama as Supreme Messiah.

Further, I think "Yes on A! No on B! Jones for Treasurer!" signs out to be banned. Campaign literature ought to at least pretend to tell people [i]why[/i[ they should vote yes on A, no on B, and for Jones.

GuyW
04-19-2010, 9:10 AM
12 noon today!

Cocina Del Charro on Quince St in Escondido

There will be a Sheriff's Candidate Forum at the Escondido Republican Club on April 19th. All 3 candidates have confirmed attendance.

There will be 3 questions asked of each candidate, and then pre-submitted questions will be directed to the candidates (not every submitted question can be used, due to time limits).

LOL! Questions such as, "Does shooting mothers in the head qualify one to be Sheriff of SD County" may not pass muster....(didn't want to get your hopes up...)

http://www.escondidorepublicanclub.org/meetings-speakers.html

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The Duke
04-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Gore is too bad for words. Allowed 9/11 terrorists to train in his backyard. Plead the 5th when his subordinates in the FBI needed him to back them up. Had sonic weapons stationed at tea party rallies. He's worthless IMO

glbtrottr
04-19-2010, 10:31 AM
God, I despise the bureacratic scumsucking arse.

N6ATF
04-19-2010, 10:37 AM
http://www.daleklinks.co.uk/media/34103/new-series-black-dalek-this-planet-earth.jpg

"Exterminate all unarmed humans!"

vantec08
04-19-2010, 3:44 PM
right, jnojr. That is called "tribalism" and most folks prefer to identify with and be with their "tribe" be it professional, religious, fraternal, neighbors, whatever.

yelohamr
04-19-2010, 5:42 PM
This is on Fox News:

SAN DIEGO (AP) ó San Diego County sheriff's officials say more than 280 people have been arrested in a crackdown on gangs and drug and human smuggling at the U.S.-Mexican border.

Sheriff Bill Gore said Monday that 24 documented gang members and eight gang associates have been booked on suspicion of various offenses following the two-day multi-agency operation called "Allied Shield."

Gore says the operation focused on San Diego gangs allegedly involved in cross-border crime.

Officials say some of the arrests were for smuggling activities that were not gang-related and others were for outstanding warrants, parole violations, probation violations, suspected drunken driving and other offenses.

About 165 pounds of marijuana, 21 pounds of methamphetamine, six pounds of cocaine, heroin and weapons were also seized

GuyW
04-19-2010, 9:21 PM
I heard Duffy level a charge against Gore that I'm also interested in verifying. He said that due to budget cuts, the Sheriff's dept isn't providing deputies with AR-15's. He went on to day that some of the deputies wanted to purchase their own AR-15's -for use in the line of service, but that Gore refused to give them proper authorization?!?!?! Can anybody confirm this or tell me why?

William, just jumping off from your posts....

2 of the candidates used the "make positive noises and deflect attention" tactic to mis-portray themselves today:

1. Gore talked about learning to shoot a handgun at 13 (big whoop) and that he owns 6 handguns....trying to mislead listeners to conclude he is "pro-gun".

Wrong - his is the "guns solely for cops" position...

2. Duffy wanted us to think that because he was purportedly pro-Deputy ownership, that he is pro-citizen ownership for AR-15s.

Wrong - its probably another example of "guns solely for cops".....


I hope someone answers your question, tho.
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GJC
04-20-2010, 10:29 AM
Jay Has my Vote!

GuyW
04-20-2010, 1:40 PM
A friend made a great synopsis of their positions:

Gore is for the Government

Duffy is for the Unions

La Suer is for the People

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Bizcuits
04-20-2010, 1:59 PM
It's sad to see that any law enforcement officials involved with Waco are even still employed. Why they aren't the local paul blarts is a disgrace to the dead.

GuyW
04-21-2010, 5:58 PM
Whitewashing the Sheriff's race....a listener would never know there's any controversies...

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/apr/21/election-san-diego-county-sheriffs-race/

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Crazed_SS
04-21-2010, 7:45 PM
I heard Duffy level a charge against Gore that I'm also interested in verifying. He said that due to budget cuts, the Sheriff's dept isn't providing deputies with AR-15's. He went on to day that some of the deputies wanted to purchase their own AR-15's -for use in the line of service, but that Gore refused to give them proper authorization?!?!?! Can anybody confirm this or tell me why?

My best friend is a SD Deputy. He says they wouldnt give him a letter to get a privately-owned AW, but when he asked about it, he was told that he could go to some extra tactical training and get issued an AR.

So he did the training and he has a Bushmaster M4-style rifle w/ Aimpoint for his patrol car now. I shot it with him at ASC and it was pretty sweet.

It seems like SD Sherriff Dept is kinda strict. According to him, he can only carry his dept-issued G22 which has a ridiculously heavy trigger. Even his off-duty CCW (Glock 27) had to be modified by the dept armorer to have the same heavy trigger.

destro360
04-21-2010, 7:47 PM
Gore can't even follow his own rules of engagement. Vicki Weaver was unarmed. This butcher ordered his FBI sniper to kill her any way...

im no expert but in my research and according to the "snipers" account it was a shot intended for randy who was standing in front of her in the door way. now im sure people will say "he's a sniper he would not miss" but this is not true in this case because he already had a clear full back shot at randy while he was standing in front of his shed and got hit in the shoulder. this is when his wife and him ran to the house and she was shot in the door way through the skull and into the family friends arm that was behind her. i too do not agree with the off the wall rules of engagement thrown together by the fbi but i also do not sympathize much for randy a man who put his kids and wife in danger because he did not want to serve jail time. he is also an admitted racist and the entire reason he came into this was his association with the white supremists in idaho and manufacturing illegal short barreled shot guns. i think the best fight here would be leaving ca all together. its out of control here and very over rated. police state.:80:

GuyW
04-21-2010, 8:18 PM
manufacturing illegal short barreled shot guns.

To keep the record straight, to my knowledge, Weaver "made" one suspect shotgun, and was found NOT GUILTY of making an illegal firearm by a jury of Idaho citizens...



...and the entire reason he came into this was his association with the white supremists in idaho...

...for your dependants' sakes, I hope we don't read about the feds shooting your family up because you hang out with governmentally-disapproved gun nuts....

destro360
04-21-2010, 9:32 PM
To keep the record straight, to my knowledge, Weaver "made" one suspect shotgun, and was found NOT GUILTY of making an illegal firearm by a jury of Idaho citizens... weaver is on film saying "i cut off the barrels of two shot guns for him" the overall length i never heard mentioned or idaho's laws regarding short barrels. on that subject i am not sure of all the technicalities but those were the charges brought against him.



...for your dependants' sakes, I hope we don't read about the feds shooting your family up because you hang out with governmentally-disapproved gun nuts....

RACISTS i think is a diff label from gun nut.
lets call apples apples, oranges oranges and .223 ammo out of stock. for your own study and arguement sake weaver failed to appear in court and was hiding behind his well armed children for around 60 days (if i remember correct) before they even engaged the house. so lets not make comparisons without logic or sense. like i said i DID NOT approve of how it was handled or the rules of engagement set fourth by the fbi, but i also do not give weaver credit for putting his family in harms way selfishly, nor do i consider him some type of hero.

destro360
04-21-2010, 9:36 PM
i messed up the last quote and somehow it got meshed with "guyw" haha oh well.

Untamed1972
04-22-2010, 7:29 AM
im no expert but in my research and according to the "snipers" account it was a shot intended for randy who was standing in front of her in the door way. now im sure people will say "he's a sniper he would not miss" but this is not true in this case because he already had a clear full back shot at randy while he was standing in front of his shed and got hit in the shoulder. this is when his wife and him ran to the house and she was shot in the door way through the skull and into the family friends arm that was behind her. i too do not agree with the off the wall rules of engagement thrown together by the fbi but i also do not sympathize much for randy a man who put his kids and wife in danger because he did not want to serve jail time. he is also an admitted racist and the entire reason he came into this was his association with the white supremists in idaho and manufacturing illegal short barreled shot guns. i think the best fight here would be leaving ca all together. its out of control here and very over rated. police state.:80:


Even if all of your allegations were true......since when does the FBI get to appoint itself "judge, jury and executioner"? Remember.....if you let them slide on that one......who will be next? You perhaps?

blackbox
04-22-2010, 8:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBbU3QtnMHU

GuyW
04-27-2010, 3:24 PM
Watch tonight! Channel 10! 5, 6 and 11 PM
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