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View Full Version : bwiese & Librarian... Question RE; Off Roster DROS from Police Dept


ZirconJohn
03-28-2009, 2:09 PM
Bill Wiese, and Librarian... here is the situation;

How do I make a long story short?

A friend from our club; The Ukiah Rifle & Pistol Club - Mendocino Co. (NorCal) referred me to this nice lady who I will call 'Mary'... she called me asking for my help, she mentioned my friend and former President of Ukiah Gun Club.

Her son got busted by San Diego Police Dept, in the military etc (the dummy)... anyway he had her pistol (with permission), but San Diego Police Dept confiscated the pistol.

Pistol; Colt - Delta Gold Cup .10MM - A non-rostered pistol nonetheless!

Still trying for the short version...

I called the DOJ like a good little FFL Dealer and they said I need to stay out of it, and that I could not act as liaison between Mary and San Diego Police Dept. I think I'm getting tired of calling the DOJ. Besides, the 'straight-talk' info here on CalGuns between bwiese and Librarian has always done me right.

About a month later I get a call from some really great people at (plug) Discount Gun Mart & Indoor Range of San Diego, CA - (a salesman by the name of John S).
John tells me they went over to San Diego Police Dept and picked-up this Delta Gold Cup, and would like to ship it to me for 'Mary'. I say 'COOL!':thumbsup: Ship the pistol...

Now, here is the question; since this is a non-rostered gun, from the San Diego Police Dept Property Room, to Discount Gun Mart, to me... how do I get this to Mary so that all CA-DOJ and FED-ATF are all one big happy sing-along!

Oh ya... I am doing this pro-bono, I think that means free in the big city! - what's it gonna cost me $25 and I did a friend a favor, and got this really nice lady her gun back... where it belongs! This how we do it in the country.

I just want to do the right thing... 'thanks'

CSACANNONEER
03-28-2009, 2:42 PM
Sorry to thread jack but, thanks for letting me know who to do bussiness with if I ever move to Ukiah!

Librarian
03-28-2009, 3:33 PM
Interesting.

It was already hers, right? So the Roster ought to be out of the picture.

This is all CA, so Feds are not relevant so long as Mary is not ineligible.

And San Diego PD released it to the FFL down there, so there's no LEGR (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf) involved anymore (if ever there was). The LEGR involves a background check, exactly as if for DROS; if SDPD released the gun without the LEGR, no check seems to have been needed. If a LEGR was filed, the background check is already done.

If the LEGR is completed, or not needed, seems that all the steps are completed.

So it looks like you can just give her her property back.

If you entered it in your Bound Book, then you'll need to have the right paperwork to properly log it back out - not being dealer, I don't know what that is. Maybe she fills out a 4473?

I'll have to go with only 'looks like' this time. There may be some things I don't know to ask about.

rtlltj
03-28-2009, 3:38 PM
I don't understand, I thought you could let someone borrow a pistol for 30 days if they possess a handgun safety certificate or have some other exemption in which they don't need a HSC. What difference does it make if its on the roster or not?

ke6guj
03-28-2009, 3:42 PM
It normally doesn't matter if it is rostered or not for a <30-day loan, but this situation is more complicated than that. An FFL has possesion of a non-rostered handgun that came into his possesion by a way other than the normal methods that a non-rostered handgun can go in and out of his books. Such as a PPT transfer, intrafamily transfer, cosignment sale, or repair.

rtlltj
03-28-2009, 3:46 PM
It normally doesn't matter if it is rostered or not for a <30-day loan, but this situation is more complicated than that. An FFL has possesion of a non-rostered handgun that came into his possesion by a way other than the normal methods that a non-rostered handgun can go in and out of his books. Such as a PPT transfer, intrafamily transfer, cosignment sale, or repair.

Now its in possession of a FFL but why was it confiscated in the first place if its legal to borrow with permission. It would have never seen the FFL in the first place.

"Her son got busted by San Diego Police Dept, in the military etc (the dummy)... anyway he had her pistol (with permission), but San Diego Police Dept confiscated the pistol"

I guess there's other circumstances of why the police confiscated it?

ke6guj
03-28-2009, 3:51 PM
Now its in possession of a FFL but why was it confiscated in the first place if its legal to borrow with permission. It would have never seen the FFL in the first place.

"Her son got busted by San Diego Police Dept, in the military etc (the dummy)... anyway he had her pistol (with permission), but San Diego Police Dept confiscated the pistol"

I guess there's other circumstances of why the police confiscated it?
right, it sounds like the son got popped for something else, and it was confiscated because of that, not because it was loaned to him.

RP1911
03-28-2009, 4:06 PM
I think she can use the operation of law form, send $19 and be done with it.

FFL should probably have her fill out a 4473 to cover his A&D book.

wash
03-28-2009, 4:37 PM
I think this warrants further study.

You can give it to me for safe keeping in the mean time.:43:

ZirconJohn
03-28-2009, 5:45 PM
Interesting.

It was already hers, right? So the Roster ought to be out of the picture.

This is all CA, so Feds are not relevant so long as Mary is not ineligible.

And San Diego PD released it to the FFL down there, so there's no LEGR (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf) involved anymore (if ever there was). The LEGR involves a background check, exactly as if for DROS; if SDPD released the gun without the LEGR, no check seems to have been needed. If a LEGR was filed, the background check is already done.

If the LEGR is completed, or not needed, seems that all the steps are completed.

So it looks like you can just give her her property back.

If you entered it in your Bound Book, then you'll need to have the right paperwork to properly log it back out - not being dealer, I don't know what that is. Maybe she fills out a 4473?

I'll have to go with only 'looks like' this time. There may be some things I don't know to ask about.

Ah... I do have a letter, came with the gun from DOJ - Bureau of Firearms (a photo copy) with 'Mary's' [actual] name, address etc... *dated 2-22-09 (see note below)

Header is as follows; RE: Receipt Confirmation for Firearm Reported as Either Operation of Law, Intrafamilial Transfer, or Law Enforcement Gun Release
Continues to say in the effect; states name of gun owner, acknowledgement that DOJ has processed request and made entry into the Automated Firearms System for the firearm as noted. Additionally, firearms eligibility check completed and eligibility to possess firearms, something about the firearm [quote] "being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency *within 30 days of the date of this letter"

And to answer your question; no, I have not entered this gun into my acquisition book, not yet. However, I do need to acquisition this firearm. I need to show disposition as I do have all pertaining paperwork; copy of FFL from Discount Gun Mart, and CFLC.
I also have copy of 'Request for Pick-Up and Transfer of Handgun - original, signed in ink by 'Mary' indicating me as destination of handgun. Additionally, a 'Letter of Authorization' (signed ink) indicating me as shipping address, and a California All Purpose Acknowledgement Notary Public for 'Mary' as signing party.

Question; what do you make of the reference to *30 days from date of letter, now that today is Mar 28 and beyond 30 days stated. Do they mean me, or is that date directed towards San Diego Police Dept from CA-DOJ?

Please let me know if you want to see copy of letter(s), I can Email .pdf to you sans 'Mary's' actual name and address as to maintain her confidentiality. Just PM your Email and I'll sent requested docs for you to review.

Dont'cha just love this... fascinating aint it!

Librarian
03-28-2009, 6:27 PM
Ah... I do have a letter, came with the gun from DOJ - Bureau of Firearms (a photo copy) with 'Mary's' [actual] name, address etc... *dated 2-22-09 (see note below)

Header is as follows; RE: Receipt Confirmation for Firearm Reported as Either Operation of Law, Intrafamilial Transfer, or Law Enforcement Gun Release
Continues to say in the effect; states name of gun owner, acknowledgement that DOJ has processed request and made entry into the Automated Firearms System for the firearm as noted. Additionally, firearms eligibility check completed and eligibility to possess firearms, something about the firearm "being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency *within 30 days of the date of this letter"

And to answer your question; no, I have not entered this gun into my acquisition book, not yet. However, I do need to acquisition this firearm. I need to show disposition as I do have all pertaining paperwork; copy of FFL from Discount Gun Mart, and CFLC.
I also have copy of 'Request for Pick-Up and Transfer of Handgun - original, signed in ink by 'Mary' indicating me as destination of handgun. Additionally, a 'Letter of Authorization' (signed ink) indicating me as shipping address, and a California All Purpose Acknowledgement Notary Public for 'Mary' as signing party.

Question; what do you make of the reference to *30 days from date of letter, now that today is Mar 28 and beyond 30 days stated. Do they mean me, or is that date directed towards San Diego Police Dept from CA-DOJ?

Please let me know if you want to see copy of letter(s), I can Email .pdf to you sans 'Mary's' actual name and address as to maintain her confidentiality. Just PM your Email and I'll sent requested docs for you to review.

Dont'cha just love this... fascinating aint it!

That's the LEGR. I guess that's the authority by which the SD gun shop picked up the gun, and thereafter shipped it to you.

The 30-day thing is for SDPD - if you don't pick up the gun from them that quickly, the background check is supposed to be redone.

So, Mary's OK to receive the gun; in and out of your books is all that remains.

ZirconJohn
03-28-2009, 7:29 PM
That's the LEGR. I guess that's the authority by which the SD gun shop picked up the gun, and thereafter shipped it to you.

The 30-day thing is for SDPD - if you don't pick up the gun from them that quickly, the background check is supposed to be redone.

So, Mary's OK to receive the gun; in and out of your books is all that remains.

LEGR; Law Enforcement Gun Release Application - Done.

I'll acquisition this bad boy, and disposition to 'Mary'. Then maintain all pertinent paperwork etc and 'badda-boom, badda bing!'

I just have one more phone call to make on Monday before I put this here to bed, now that I have the ducklings lined-up!

Sweet! - Nice job, thank you Librarian... ya'know, I had the idea that this was the deal here, and I just needed a sounding board. There may be times I ask questions, I already know the answer, or I at least the path to the ultimate end result... 'affirmation' is the key here the way I do things.

Once again... "CalGuns git-er-done!"

Dang-it Jim! - I'm a GUN DEALER, NOT A DOCTOR!

Thanks again Librarian, I knew I could count on you... 'nice job!':thumbsup: